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Old 12-15-2006, 01:20 AM   #41
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On a different note, I think K3 should use something similar to the Half Life 2 engine for faces and facial expressions.
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Old 12-15-2006, 01:21 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke

And as I pointed out above, a larger percentage of the audience isn't a "realtime action combat fan", see these kinds of games aren't for 'twitch' they are for a releaxing and cerebral expirience. Not many RPG players can play a 'real time combat' game for very long before they have to stop, while the slower turn based KotOR games can be played at any pace and speed.
Sad but true.
I talking about Star Wars fans who are fans of the KOTOR series.
I lot people who like playing action games or action RPGs and despise turn-base combat, are fans of the KOTOR series.
It is bias to believe otherwise, RedHawke.
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Old 12-15-2006, 07:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I talking about Star Wars fans who are fans of the KOTOR series.
When designing a game the "fans" are exactly what I addressed above. For they are the ones playing the game...

Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I lot people who like playing action games or action RPGs and despise turn-base combat, are fans of the KOTOR series.
Doesn't matter what these players "despise", as these type of "fans" (like yourself) are a mere 33% of the core audience, as I clearly stated above.

You don't cater specifically to that 33% without alienating the other 66% who don't really care about such things and are content with the current system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
It is bias to believe otherwise, RedHawke.
No, it is biased to post and believe what you do, I am just stating game design facts here.


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Old 12-15-2006, 08:00 AM   #44
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This thread is getting kinda spiteful, anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I, [like a*] lot people who like playing action games or action RPGs and despise turn-base combat, are fans of the KOTOR series.
You despise KOTOR's combat system which makes up roughly half of the game, but call yourself a fan?

*I'm assuming that's what you meant.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
You don't cater specifically to that 33% without alienating the other 66% who don't really care about such things and are content with the current system.
What about the others 1%?
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:38 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
What about the others 1%?
33%≈1/3 & 66%≈2/3.
⅓+⅔=1
Happy?
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:00 AM   #47
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Redhawke, I actually seen many people buy into the KOTOR series and become great fans of it because they believe it to be a real-time action RPG. No matter how much I tried to tell them it's not really an action RPG, they...well...think it's an action RPG, and love it. So, I let it be.

So, prehaps, a sizable majority of people like action RPGs but like the pace of KOTOR and think of it as an action RPG already. So, even so there may be a lot of Action RPG fans of KOTOR, since they believe KOTOR is an action RPG, there is no need to change it to be a TRUE Action RPG.
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by DARTH_DANZIG
Because people are so obviously confused most in due to simple fear.
Oh brother.

Fear of what? A lot of players, including me, play a lot of FPS and TPS and enjoy them. Doesn't mean that those same people want those elements put into KOTOR. People play different games for different reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARTH_DANZIG
Ok, so then using that big statement of yours, you can then understand that merely making the COMBAT part of the game, adverse enough to have DECISION between OPTIONS of engagement methods, adds more to the game while taking nothing away from it.
But it is taking something away from it. Trying to capture multiple gametypes in one game pretty much never works, let alone excels. These games tend to be subpar at each gametype compared to games that focus on them. This is for a number of reasons.

First, there is a finite amount of time and money that can be used in developing a game. Dividing those up over multiple gameplay types of course means that less is devoted to each. So it is easy to see that such games are going to likely be poorer at each genre. You are never going to have a scenario where you are going to get twice the time and budget to do "equally well" at two genres, for example.

Even if you did get that for what you are suggesting, it still isn't possible. There are all the technical issues that arise when you try to support multiple types of gameplay on the same level. You can't just expect to take a level and apply two gametypes and expect both to work equally well. AI, level design, weapon layouts, character progression, storylines, cutscenes, engine selections, bugetary asset allocation, modeling, etc. are all driven or at the very least affected by the choice of gametype. And selecting one gametype presents a set of challenges and requirements that will differ greatly from the challenges and requirements of another gametype.

It is very difficult to impossible to develop something that would support multiple gametypes in a satisfactory way. You have no choice but to make compromises and workarounds, which invitably leads to the game not doing each genre as well as a game focused on one or another would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARTH_DANZIG
If combat is of ANY part of the story, then it simply becomes another form storytelling/character progression/plot addition.
This is again to say, the player CAN CHOOSE, whether to engage turn-based, pause allowance, action-response, or action free-range.
And have an experience that will be subpar with any of those campared to a game that focused on one. No thanks.

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Old 12-15-2006, 05:55 PM   #49
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I like how it is turned based, but it plays out in real time makes it feel more like a movie your in.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Redhawke, I actually seen many people buy into the KOTOR series and become great fans of it because they believe it to be a real-time action RPG. No matter how much I tried to tell them it's not really an action RPG, they...well...think it's an action RPG, and love it. So, I let it be.

So, prehaps, a sizable majority of people like action RPGs but like the pace of KOTOR and think of it as an action RPG already. So, even so there may be a lot of Action RPG fans of KOTOR, since they believe KOTOR is an action RPG, there is no need to change it to be a TRUE Action RPG.
Perception is nine-tenthes (9/10) of reality, but that doesn't make it anymore true. Anyway, those people are "..." and I'm sure most people would realise that if you can pause, give orders and have no direct control over the combat, it's not an Action RPG.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrathan
Have any of you played Star Wars D20 PnP? Real-time combat is NOT D20 based, but KotOR IS! So, THAT is why they will not change the combat style/system. If they do/did it would disrupt the ENTIRE game, because it is not a how good are YOU, but how good is your character.
Precisely. And yes, I have played d20 Star Wars. I hate d20. The Star Wars variant is one of the better systems, though it still enforces the aspects of d20 that I dislike the most - fixed classes and experience levels.

Though I want a turn-based combat system for the exact reasons you mention here, I'd much rather have a GURPS-like development system for the character build-up, since that always seemed more appropriate to me. Levels are just silly somehow.

I never forget Marcus in Fallout 2:

"Wow! I feel as if I've passed some arbitrary experience value and gained more power!"

That always sums my feelings about levels up pretty nicely


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Old 12-19-2006, 12:43 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Redhawke, I actually seen many people buy into the KOTOR series and become great fans of it because they believe it to be a real-time action RPG. No matter how much I tried to tell them it's not really an action RPG, they...well...think it's an action RPG, and love it. So, I let it be.
Well since I have some expirience in this area, I feel it is only prudent to educate them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Precisely. And yes, I have played d20 Star Wars. I hate d20. The Star Wars variant is one of the better systems, though it still enforces the aspects of d20 that I dislike the most - fixed classes and experience levels.
Jediphile, hold on to your hat... I wholeheartedly agree!

I hate D20 as well. I would have preferred that the WEG D6 Star Wars System was used, but GURPS would also be do-able in a pinch.


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Old 12-19-2006, 07:23 AM   #52
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It would be nice to have it be the best of both KotOR's.

A dynamic, grab you by the pants story and sweet character development from KotOR mixed with an higher level in playability and weapons, equipment and clothing upgrades as in TSL, sprinkle in a higher level of graphics (especially with shadows and movement) and you'd quite possible have a runner for game of the year again.


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Old 12-21-2006, 07:38 PM   #53
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I think K3 should be more like Ninja Gaiden. I'm not saying it should be an action game, I just think the KOTOR series needs more ninjas (more than zero). The Star Wars mythos* is really lacking in Ninjas, thus in K3 there should be Jedi Ninja class. And no, I don't know if I'm being serious.

*I'm not really sure if "Mythos" is a word. If it is it means: "A (fictional) history relevant to a particular character, group, or world. For example, in the current Wonder Woman mythos, several Greek goddesses are responsible for the creation of the Amazons."
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
I think K3 should be more like Ninja Gaiden. I'm not saying it should be an action game, I just think the KOTOR series needs more ninjas (more than zero). The Star Wars mythos* is really lacking in Ninjas, thus in K3 there should be Jedi Ninja class. And no, I don't know if I'm being serious.
I'm sorry to say, but I think this has already been done...with the addition of Sith Assaisans into canon. Sorry.
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:05 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
I'm sorry to say, but I think this has already been done...with the addition of Sith Assaisans into canon. Sorry.
The Sith Assassins have an apparent lack of shuriken, thus not ninjas. Also they don't look like this http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/ar...5001109440.jpg or http://askaninja.com/
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Old 01-01-2007, 09:40 PM   #56
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Man, it is nice to see that this thread got hijacked. Does nobody here appreciate good discussion? It was meant for people to voice thier own opinion and instead everyone just bashes each other. The first post had to be the smart ass comment that KOTOR 3 should be like 1&2. This thread isn't suggesting that, it is suggesting that the developers take aspects of other games that will improve the experience, not completely change it.
GG team.
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Old 01-01-2007, 11:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Chief
it is suggesting that the developers take aspects of other games that will improve the experience, not completely change it.
GG team.
Like ninja games. OK, I'll be quiet now...
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:26 AM   #58
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I think the gameplay on Kotor is fine as it is, but it could use some more combat variety.

and yeah, Ninja's ARE awesome aren't they?
But I didn't really like Ninja gaiden, not stealthy enough. I really like'd Tenchu return from darkness though.


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Old 01-02-2007, 12:27 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Chief
Does nobody here appreciate good discussion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Chief
This thread...is suggesting that the developers take aspects of other games that will improve the experience, not completely change it.
Guess there's no more need for discussion.

Seriously. Discussion is discussion, even if it's the opinion that KotOR3 should be just like 1&2. Don't tell people their opinions are wrong just because yours differ. You're effectively trying to cease discussion on this topic, not bolster "good dicussion" by telling people to keep quiet if they don't agree with you :/. Suggesting that KotOR 3 not use aspects of other games is a completely valid addition to this discussion.
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:43 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Chief
Man, it is nice to see that this thread got hijacked. Does nobody here appreciate good discussion? It was meant for people to voice thier own opinion and instead everyone just bashes each other. The first post had to be the smart ass comment that KOTOR 3 should be like 1&2. This thread isn't suggesting that, it is suggesting that the developers take aspects of other games that will improve the experience, not completely change it.
GG team.
I would say something about this post Mister Chief but Inyri said it far better than I would...

Quote:
Originally Posted by InyriForge
Seriously. Discussion is discussion, even if it's the opinion that KotOR3 should be just like 1&2. Don't tell people their opinions are wrong just because yours differ. You're effectively trying to cease discussion on this topic, not bolster "good dicussion" by telling people to keep quiet if they don't agree with you :/. Suggesting that KotOR 3 not use aspects of other games is a completely valid addition to this discussion.
Words of wisdom Mister Chief, words of wisdom.


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Old 01-04-2007, 08:18 PM   #61
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Yes, of course the discussion should include the fact that no extra additions be made.

The only problem is that half of the thread is people bashing the idea of changes without truly adding anything substantial to the discussion. It is just a back and forth of this is bad, no its good, no its bad, no it is good.

I suppose that the majority of the opinion could be that we should leave the game as it is with no changes from other games, but that is not what the thread was about.

It is like somone going into a topic about how to bake cookies and then just complaining to everyone that they don't like cookies.

I suppose I am just disappointed that nobody really had any creative ideas outside of making the game an action game, and then those who don't like that just complianing about it.
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:31 AM   #62
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I wouldn't mind if the combatsystem was realtime, like in Jedi Knight 2, but with more tactics uses for each individual NPC.

Also, one thing I love about Oblivion, is that you can overhear people talking, and learn new quests that way.

Dialogue flexibility! = Answering options according to who your character is, how is his/her alignment, what skills etc... (Kinda like Fallout and Fallout 2 (Two games I also miss!))

But the most important thing, if KOTOR3 ever see the light of day, is that HK47 becomes a very important character, with loads of dialogue possibilities.



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Old 01-05-2007, 01:57 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Chief
Yes, of course the discussion should include the fact that no extra additions be made.

The only problem is that half of the thread is people bashing the idea of changes without truly adding anything substantial to the discussion. It is just a back and forth of this is bad, no its good, no its bad, no it is good.

I suppose that the majority of the opinion could be that we should leave the game as it is with no changes from other games, but that is not what the thread was about.

It is like somone going into a topic about how to bake cookies and then just complaining to everyone that they don't like cookies.

I suppose I am just disappointed that nobody really had any creative ideas outside of making the game an action game, and then those who don't like that just complianing about it.
You made a thread about what kind of changes do people want to see in KotOR III, and some people (including me) replied that they didn't want any big changes. It's all part of the discussion and everyone on this forum is allowed to post in it.


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Old 01-05-2007, 02:53 PM   #64
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In terms of story it should be merged elaments of both games unexpained story lines culbamating in a final team up with the teams form both games
eg: carth, bastila, Raven, Mission, Zalbar, and Jollie
the second : The Exile, Atton, Handmaden, Bao -dur, Viass Marr
And the bridge between the two games should be, Candrous/Mandalore,
T3-M4 and HK-47

----
Also I'd love to find out that Raven and Bastila are the ansestors Ankin Skywalker
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:58 AM   #65
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Quote:
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You made a thread about what kind of changes do people want to see in KotOR III, and some people (including me) replied that they didn't want any big changes. It's all part of the discussion and everyone on this forum is allowed to post in it.
I of course realize this, but the game will change in some way, regardless. Are you saying you would not like any interface upgrades, improved graphics, or extra customization? You are the kind of consumer I would love to sell a product to. I never said that you couldn't post that you didn't want major changes, but it does detract from the main point of the thread when everyone bashes ideas and says that they want no changes whatsoever.

This thread isn't just for major changes either. Certainly there will be some minor changes and this thread is for discussion about any changes that somone would wan't, specifically improvements that can be traced back to other games. So please, if anyone is still willing to post on topic, do so.

Some other things that would be neat to see in a new game.

Face scanning- (use of the 360 camera to scan your own face onto your character) RAinbow 6 Vegas

Dynamic dialogue options- Mass Effect

Easier command of party-

More in depth feat and skill progression-
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:56 PM   #66
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Yes, I would like a graphics and sound upgrade and improved customization. In my earlier posts in this thread, I was just arguing the point that it does not need to have it's entire combat system changed like some people have said.


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Old 01-07-2007, 10:38 PM   #67
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KOTOR III should have graphics as good as Oblivion on Xbox 360.
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:25 PM   #68
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It should have the option of real-time action like the jedi knights series, outcast, academy, etc. I wish megaman X was that cool.
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