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View Poll Results: What will the Seeker Droid be?
A simple orbiting helper 3 50.00%
A problematic full NPC 3 50.00%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Seeker Droid: Full NPC or simple orbiting servant?
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:52 PM   #1
Lathain Valtiel
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Seeker Droid: Full NPC or simple orbiting servant?

Currently, in Enhanced 0.1.0, the Seeker Droid is a full NPC who orbits you and can be left behind to 'guard' areas. Making it so has created a couple of LOVELY issues.

1: The seeker is now solid. This means that it can inhibit the player's movement and can get stuck behind walls, things which it does often.

2: It can steal kills from you, and not give you the frag point.

3: It can BE killed, and that awards the killer a point.

This would be avoided if we changed it back to the old behavior. Personally, I am in favor of that, because as far as I can tell pathing issues cannot be fixed very easily. It's solid and dumb and that's that.

Thus the poll. Old behavior with way less bugs, or a full NPC riddled with cute issues?


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Old 12-15-2006, 03:45 AM   #2
Maxstate
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I like it how it is now.
For the amount of points you spend on it, it does exactly what you want. It gives you some extra firepower, it can guard areas for you, it can search and destroy and all thaton your command.

I think walking into it isn't really possible at it stays a certain distance away from your character. But I do agree that the kills it makes should be transfered to your kill total.

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Old 12-15-2006, 05:38 PM   #3
Lathain Valtiel
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Except it nearly can't destroy, its shots only inflict somewhere in the area of 5 to 10 damage.

And yes, you can walk into it. I've done it repeatedly.

And actually, it kind of can't search and destroy. By what method do you propose it be able to walk the maps? I've in fact managed to get it stuck twice in a row to the same wall in Rift Sanctuary. As noted, each shot does pitiful damage and its fire rate is not exactly stellar (nor should it be), and worse yet, it even has trouble sticking with you. Search and destroy missions are not exactly its forte.


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Old 12-15-2006, 05:40 PM   #4
Maxstate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain Valtiel
Except it nearly can't destroy, its shots only inflict somewhere in the area of 5 to 10 damage.
It's not meant to kill, it never was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain
And yes, you can walk into it. I've done it repeatedly.
Then we can tweak it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain
And actually, it kind of can't search and destroy. By what method do you propose it be able to walk the maps? I've in fact managed to get it stuck twice in a row to the same wall in Rift Sanctuary. As noted, each shot does pitiful damage and its fire rate is not exactly stellar (nor should it be), and worse yet, it even has trouble sticking with you.
There's always the possibility of tweaks, but I think your main point was that it was underpowered which it really isn't if you ask me. For 6 points it does it's job, and after tweaking it a bit I'm sure it will be worth more.

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Old 12-15-2006, 05:46 PM   #5
Lathain Valtiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
It's not meant to kill, it never was.
Care to explain then why Razor's reaction to it doing such low damage was: 'what the hell', and why he asked me to submit a ticket to fix it? I think that's a pretty clear indication you're wrong. Besides, it's self-contradictory. How can it go on your proposal of search and destroy missions if it's not meant to kill?

Quote:
Then we can tweak it?
The best tweak for it mentioned so far would be to give it a greater orbital radius, Razor's first suggestion. The problem? That means it gets stuck to walls more often. And it already gets stuck rather often, especially if you move at anything resembling a decent clip.


Quote:
There's always the possibility of tweaks, but I think your main point was that it was underpowered which it really isn't if you ask me. For 6 points it does it's job, and after tweaking it a bit I'm sure it will be worth more.
Please don't claim you know what my point is when you clearly don't. I never said it was underpowered (though its shot damage is indeed not what it should be, that's an entirely seperate issue), in fact all I said up until you brought up the possibility of it doing 'search and destroy' runs is its buggy behavior, its inability to kill was a response to what you said.


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Old 12-15-2006, 05:54 PM   #6
Maxstate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain Valtiel
Care to explain then why Razor's reaction to it doing such low damage was: 'what the hell', and why he asked me to submit a ticket to fix it? I think that's a pretty clear indication you're wrong. Besides, it's self-contradictory. How can it go on your proposal of search and destroy missions if it's not meant to kill?
Maybe MY definition of search and destroy differs from yours.
I mean't that you can send it to attack an enemy and keep attacking it till either it or the enemy dies. I didn't mean it would seek out enemies in the map or anything.

I don't know why Razor said "what the hell" and asked you to submit a bug ticket. I assumed from the lack of comments that the damage was fine.
The thing was never meant to kill, it's supposed to be a helper that gives you extra firepower, not a fire-and-forget ultra-destruction thingamajig.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain
The best tweak for it mentioned so far would be to give it a greater orbital radius, Razor's first suggestion. The problem? That means it gets stuck to walls more often. And it already gets stuck rather often, especially if you move at anything resembling a decent clip.
Or we could revert it to how it MOVED previously but still keep the rest of the code. OR we could set it to move about 2 feet infront of the player in a 180 degree radius at all times. OR we could set it to just hover up and down and stay in one place.
I think the best tweak suggestions are yet to come and I'm trying to evoke them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathain
Please don't claim you know what my point is when you clearly don't. I never said it was underpowered, in fact all I said up until you brought up the possibility of it doing 'search and destroy' runs is that it can't exactly destroy.
You did, you constantly claimed how it's fire rate and damage are "pitiful" and in your last post you toned that down and started more on how it gets stuck often.

I'm all in favour for making it more powerful and tweaking it, but that should come with a bigger point cost as well then.
Currently I think all it needs are a few tweaks to stop it from bumping into walls, to refer it's kills to your score and to avoid you walking in it. But as far as damage or rate of fire goes, I don't think Jedi will have much problems dealing with a probe as it's one of the things they use for PADAWAN TRAINING even. It's just supposed to help you out, not do the heavy gunning for you. Besides I don't think you could mount a gun more powerful on it than it already has speaking realistically.

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Old 12-15-2006, 07:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Maybe MY definition of search and destroy differs from yours.
I mean't that you can send it to attack an enemy and keep attacking it till either it or the enemy dies. I didn't mean it would seek out enemies in the map or anything.
Not much of a SEARCH portion to it then, now is there? Further, the normal seeker droid did that just fine, bar attacking specific opponents in a multi-man skirmish... but it's not like you'd have time to direct the seeker to a specific person in such a skirmish anyway, so that point is entirely moot.

Quote:
I don't know why Razor said "what the hell" and asked you to submit a bug ticket. I assumed from the lack of comments that the damage was fine.
The thing was never meant to kill, it's supposed to be a helper that gives you extra firepower, not a fire-and-forget ultra-destruction thingamajig.
There was a lack of comments because nobody except me actually noticed that the damage was abnormally miniscule apparently, and indeed it apparently is not intended to be that way as attested by Razor's comment after I showed him. So yes, it's possibly not meant to kill by itself... but it's definitely meant to do way more damage than it does now, damage that can concievably kill a defenseless opponent semi-regularly. As it stands you have to let the droid plug at you for quite a good couple of seconds, not including dodges, for it to kill you, and that is incorrect. And that's that. Go directly to jail, do not pass Go and do not collect $200.

Quote:
Or we could revert it to how it MOVED previously but still keep the rest of the code. OR we could set it to move about 2 feet infront of the player in a 180 degree radius at all times. OR we could set it to just hover up and down and stay in one place.
I think the best tweak suggestions are yet to come and I'm trying to evoke them.
Third suggestion is worthless from the get go, we already have the Sentry Gun for that, if that unclear statement means that it no longer follows you. The second suggestion, if read as it floating in front of the player, could make it partially block his view. The first one might work, but we'd have to see if we can get the AI to do that.


Quote:
You did, you constantly claimed how it's fire rate and damage are "pitiful" and in your last post you toned that down and started more on how it gets stuck often.
Pay attention. That was in response to what YOU said about it being able to search and destroy. Note my first post and the distinct lack of mentioning its power. If anything you're the one who brought that on, so kindly point blame where it is due, IE at yourself since it can't really do what you claim.

Quote:
I'm all in favour for making it more powerful and tweaking it, but that should come with a bigger point cost as well then.
Currently I think all it needs are a few tweaks to stop it from bumping into walls, to refer it's kills to your score and to avoid you walking in it. But as far as damage or rate of fire goes, I don't think Jedi will have much problems dealing with a probe as it's one of the things they use for PADAWAN TRAINING even. It's just supposed to help you out, not do the heavy gunning for you. Besides I don't think you could mount a gun more powerful on it than it already has speaking realistically.
Actually, the ones used by Padawans are probably training versions equipped with simply stunning blasters, similarly to how training lightsabers are significantly lower-powered versions. That point doesn't really mean much.


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Old 12-19-2006, 07:35 AM   #8
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I actually really like the seeker. It's one of the few new things that's been added in a long time that actually impressed me.

Yeah, it gets stuck, that can be annoying. I don't know how well that can be improved, but it's worth trying to improve.

For killing, it should be made so killing them does not give a point (I'm almost positive this is possible) and it should also be made so that when it gets a kill it's owner gets the point (Slightly less sure, but I still think this is possible).

As far as running into it goes, maybe it would be possible that if a player runs into it, it gets pushed out of the way? Not sure if this is possible or not.

Anyway, that's my two cents. I think it would be a mistake to go backwards with it, when I still see the good chance of moving forward.



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