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View Poll Results: The push/pull defend animation should be...
left how it is 4 66.67%
removed 2 33.33%
other (post your suggestion) 0 0%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Yoda's Bug and Suggestions thread
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:58 AM   #1
JackBaldy
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Yoda's Bug and Suggestions thread

Bugs:

Lightning parries, the origin of this bug might be caused by saber idle damage/how sabers clashing effects parries

Juyo has extremely fast transitions that may need some looking into

Saber system exploit (Has been ticketed)

Absorb not reflecting lightning when the user who is getting lightninged is in melee (I was told by JRHockney that it is supposed to reflect while in melee)

Suggestions:

Make it so when you are in a heavy bounce you cannot turn.

Heavy bounces having a larger range in the mishap bar, JRHockney suggested roughly 55 or 60 through 90.

Attack parries returning to how it used to be to make attack parrying more difficult. (I agree with Razors reduce attack parry ticket)

Attack parries being able to interrupt pre-block animations so the first hit has the same amount of probability to occur as the others and attack parrying can be reverted to the way it used to be. (Now you pretty much have a hard time attack parrying the first hit because the pre-block animation isn't fast enough thus the rushing opponent gets a hit on you and get break your mishap plans for say, Heavy bounces.)

And last but not least a poll on the push/pull defend animations.

*edit* Add anything I forgot JRHockney, thanks in advance.

*edit edited out a false bug*

Last edited by JackBaldy; 12-29-2006 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:21 AM   #2
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Left as it is
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:19 AM   #3
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I forgot to mention, there is also a bug where when you kill your opponent you lose health. Depending on your health, there is a possibility where when you kill your opponent you die also. I think the origin of this problem is that the saber goes flying towards the opponent sometimes after death and the saber idle damage does damage. Or at least it seems to be that way but I cannot be 100 percent sure if I am not able to disable saber idle damage.
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:45 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
I forgot to mention, there is also a bug where when you kill your opponent you lose health. Depending on your health, there is a possibility where when you kill your opponent you die also. I think the origin of this problem is that the saber goes flying towards the opponent sometimes after death and the saber idle damage does damage. Or at least it seems to be that way but I cannot be 100 percent sure if I am not able to disable saber idle damage.
Only happens when you have no saber defense, saber goes out of your opponent's hand and acts as saber throw.
Saber defense = parries the saber throw.

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Old 12-27-2006, 11:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Only happens when you have no saber defense, saber goes out of your opponent's hand and acts as saber throw.
Saber defense = parries the saber throw.
Um, this has happened to me several times, and always I have had saber defense 3. Could it be that saber defense is not working correctly to stop this saber throw?

*edit* Do I have to be specifically aiming it at a specific angle/range? Thanks in advance.
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:35 PM   #6
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Never seen it, determine the cause of the problem and then bug ticket it.
Quote:
Lightning parries, the origin of this bug might be caused by saber idle damage/how sabers clashing effects parries
I dont know what you mean by lightning qarries.
Quote:
All levels of Absorb are equivalent.
I don't think this is true, but bug ticket.
Quote:
Juyo has extremely fast transitions that may need some looking into
determine which transitions are too fast (look at animation.cfg) and then bug ticket.


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Old 12-27-2006, 05:34 PM   #7
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@Razor Ace: When I say 'lightning parries,' what I mean by it is multiple registered parries during a single parry. This raises the mishap meter through the roof and seems to be caused by saber collisions effects (somewhere along those lines) because every time JRHockney got lightning parried those effects would appear more than once and be more noticeable because of the obvious increase in number of effects.

I tested it with both Sushi and JRHockney, Absorb 1 acted as Absorb 3. Simply put, Absorb 1 was blocking push 3, pull 3, lightning 3, grip 3, etc.

I really don't think I can determine which transitions are extremely fast by looking at the animation.cfg, but I can possibly record a video of it in action and post it on youtube so you can more visual on this.
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Old 12-27-2006, 07:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
@Razor Ace: When I say 'lightning parries,' what I mean by it is multiple registered parries during a single parry. This raises the mishap meter through the roof and seems to be caused by saber collisions effects (somewhere along those lines) because every time JRHockney got lightning parried those effects would appear more than once and be more noticeable because of the obvious increase in number of effects.

I tested it with both Sushi and JRHockney, Absorb 1 acted as Absorb 3. Simply put, Absorb 1 was blocking push 3, pull 3, lightning 3, grip 3, etc.

I really don't think I can determine which transitions are extremely fast by looking at the animation.cfg, but I can possibly record a video of it in action and post it on youtube so you can more visual on this.
The lightning parries are most probably because you two were standing on different elevations. I've said it before; it happens in fearis a lot when Rache stands on a bit higher platform than I am and I attack him. Mishap jumps up and I usually lose my saber or get knocked down.

Try it on mp/ffa5 and you'll notice the difference.

Furthermore, you probably had either push, pull, lightning and grip while you were testing because I tested the same thing with Rache today and it did not work for me.

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Old 12-27-2006, 07:57 PM   #9
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*wonders why JRHockney has not posted here yet* It was on /map mp/duel10, the elevation was the same (Unless I am missing something?). I'm not sure what push, pull, lightning, and grip have to do with this though, explain please? Well I am just going to leave it at that, if JRHockney wants to add something, then he can go ahead. Although even what you are saying is a bug, that should not happen even in higher elevation. Last but not least Sushi also experienced this.
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:10 PM   #10
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No, not at the moment. You pretty much covered everything important that I can think of at the moment. Man, those lightning parries are awful!


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Old 12-28-2006, 02:43 AM   #11
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Yeah, the "lightning parries" as they seem to be called now started appearing after the last major tweak to the parry code a while ago.
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:55 AM   #12
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Check to see if it only works on stairs and elevators. I've heard that there's a weird technical issue that might cause problems with the saber system.


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Old 12-28-2006, 03:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Check to see if it only works on stairs and elevators. I've heard that there's a weird technical issue that might cause problems with the saber system.
No I'm quite sure it wasnt just on stairs or elevators. We were fighting at the reactor duel map 10 or whatever its called were their arent any elevators and only a few stairs. These lightning parries were literally happening in most of my swing volleys when Jack decided to only play defensively. We stayed away from the stairs completely in our testing as well. Sometimes the mishap bar would jump three normal spaces and other times it would maxout, go around again and start at around 75%! This is definitely a nasty bug.


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Old 12-28-2006, 06:40 AM   #14
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Try again with sv_fps set to 100, and g_saberdmgdelay_wound 100, and maybe g_saberdmgdelay_idle 350.

Maybe with more fps it could hit twice, because according to the readme, OJP is optimized for 50 or 100 fps.

Also for absorb, I think level 1 of absorb allows you to block any power level as long as you stand still. Level 3 would even protect you while jumping.

As for Juyo transitions, I've noticed they are a bit too fast, you can hit like 3-4 times a second if you know the right combo. (Where to check the animation.cfg? Maybe I could find which ones are too fast...)

Edit:
Ok I tried a few things, the fastest transitions could be:
UL2DR => DL2UR and DL2UR => UL2DR
and maybe
UR2DL => DR2UL and DR2UL => UR2DL
Note: This is just a possibility.

Last edited by TheShaman; 12-28-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-28-2006, 12:55 PM   #15
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@Absorb: I'm pretty sure I tested while moving in the past, but not while jumping. Although I was under the impression that Absorb was supposed to defend by force levels, meaning absorb 1 defends all force levels of 1 etc.

As for those cvars, I had it like you stated, aside from sv_fps which was set at 60. But lightning parries has happened to me in Meat Grinder also, when I went to test my recently ticketed 'Saber system exploit.' I will raise it to 100 and see if the problem lessens.

*edit* The reason I left it at 60 was because none of this ever happened when I played with JRHockney in the older builds. But I will make sure to test 50 and 100 sv_fps and see what happens.

*edit* I tested Absorb 1 while jumping and applying force, same effect, it blocked it. Much like I expected it to do.

Last edited by JackBaldy; 12-29-2006 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 12-28-2006, 03:21 PM   #16
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I tried uploading the video to Youtube (my first time), but for some odd reason it just came out blank with the audio playing (all black). Know the cause of this?
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Old 12-29-2006, 02:24 AM   #17
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bugs:

Running doesn't make dodge point's regeneration slower. (Confirmed as a bug by JRHockney)

Suggestions for the saber system:

Make player speed related to dodge points by a multiplier, x * dodge points = player speed where x = the multiplier. This would make it harder for players to easily just turn around and evade/run away (Which I tested against Hoc ni and worked very well).

*edited out the red dodge points force vulnerability bug*

Last edited by JackBaldy; 12-29-2006 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:07 AM   #18
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You ARE vulnerable to Force powers when in red DP, but DP recharges pretty quickly and only a certain number can be considered 'red'. It can be flashing red around 35 and you can't get pushed. (confirmed by me and Rache)

Running STOPS my points from regenerating. (Confirmed by me and Rache)

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or anything but these things just work on the O SRSLY server, which is running a clean install of OJP 0.0.9r. Having excess files in your folder or having older versions in there has been known to screw it up a lot.

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Old 12-29-2006, 07:15 AM   #19
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I don't like the speed idea, preventing someone from running away is stupid... if he is low on DP and runs away, you can pull him...

With your thing, someone low on DP is dead for sure, which is a bad point IMO.
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Old 12-29-2006, 07:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I don't like the speed idea, preventing someone from running away is stupid... if he is low on DP and runs away, you can pull him...

With your thing, someone low on DP is dead for sure, which is a bad point IMO.
As much as I hate runners, that's their strategy.
Who am I to say that something is bad and something is good? If someone wants to run away they should be able too, if they're on low DP (as Shaman said) they're as vulnerable as it gets.


To make use of this suggestion thread:
I think saberthrow should have a nice little damage boost or speed boost, or have level 3 and pull 3 make it a boomerang so it's useful for something other than showing off.

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Old 12-29-2006, 09:01 AM   #21
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I've always wondered why saberthrow doesn't kill.
For balance issues, will shout everyone, of course, but "there is always more than one way out".

Making it deal same damage as a saber slash would be more realistic, and to balance it, being able to block it while facing it and not attacking, or being able to dodge it in another case should do it. Also range should be decreased.
Yet if it's still overpowered, increasing its point cost to 8 8 8 instead of 4 4 4 would help again, and if it's still overpowered with all that, increase the FP cost.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
You ARE vulnerable to Force powers when in red DP, but DP recharges pretty quickly and only a certain number can be considered 'red'. It can be flashing red around 35 and you can't get pushed. (confirmed by me and Rache)

Running STOPS my points from regenerating. (Confirmed by me and Rache)

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or anything but these things just work on the O SRSLY server, which is running a clean install of OJP 0.0.9r. Having excess files in your folder or having older versions in there has been known to screw it up a lot.
Check again Max. We tested them last night and several times and they weren't working. We made sure our DP was almost 0 before trying those force powers. It might be some of the newer vulnerability code thats interfereing with it. Even if Jack wasnt as close to 0 as I thought, he was still flashing red and he should have been vulnerable. Don't confuse the mishap meter with the DP meter in this matter, luckily, the high mishap meter vulnerability works fine.

Just to make sure it wasn't his server, I checked the running bug my own solo game. The FP gain stops, but we're talking about the DP gain. That goes up just as fast as walking.

Also, I have no other versions or code patches in my folder, which are the only things that could interfere with such a feature.

Quote:
To make use of this suggestion thread:
I think saberthrow should have a nice little damage boost or speed boost, or have level 3 and pull 3 make it a boomerang so it's useful for something other than showing off.
I wouldn't mind a damage boost against gunners, but I'm not sure if its the best idea in a saber fight. As far as the level3 and pull boomerang thing, thats up to Razor, though he never really liked that "yoyo of death" as he called it.


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Last edited by JRHockney*; 12-29-2006 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Check again Max. We tested them last night and several times and they weren't working. We made sure our DP was almost 0 before trying those force powers. It might be some of the newer vulnerability code thats interfereing with it. Even if Jack wasnt as close to 0 as I thought, he was still flashing red and he should have been vulnerable. Don't confuse the mishap meter with the DP meter in this matter, luckily, the high mishap meter vulnerability works fine.

Just to make sure it wasn't his server, I checked the running bug my own solo game. The FP gain stops, but we're talking about the DP gain. That goes up just as fast as walking.
1:
Did you check the DP vulnerability on your own solo game?
I find this very peculiar as a few nights ago me and Jack were sparring on the O srsly server as well, he was low on DP and running and jumping away and I pushed him off the map.

2:
Hmm I might be wrong about this yeah, FP doesn't regen but DP does indeed.

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Old 12-29-2006, 12:21 PM   #24
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Max I didn't even have absorb when you pushed me off at the OSRLY? server. Testing was done with Absorb 3. And running only stops DP regeneration when at 11 or lower force. I have a clean install of O.J.P. 009r, I have all the default settings, and I also use different files for my server to make sure it is clean and stays clean. Cvar_restart also means I have all the default settings (Of course some altered for server preference, such as g_minforcerank).

And I just think it is waaay to easy to run away which is why I suggested it. There are many ways to run away and I do not think it is fair to be honest. There should just be a limit on how many times you can decide to just turn around and run away, I did this in a small duel map to JRHockney which gives me less options on where to go and I was easily able to go from 1/3 or lower to full even when I had low force which made my DP regeneration even slower. Why make it easy for someone to run away? I don't see the point, which is why probably the whole 'being at red dodge points' makes you slower, but that is only at the extremes and does not help you much and still leaves plenty of other times to run away.

*edit* And Max, you are not being a pain in the ass, I <3 :P *hug* :P
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:26 PM   #25
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Well you did have Push 2 or 3, which also blocks Push of the same level like Absorb does.

You must've had something, there's not much else you can spend the 60 points on.

Also if someone wants to run away I don't see why he shouldn't be able too, the majority of points that we get are from dueling and gunfights, draining DP and not from killing others. I like that

Okay lol <3

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Old 12-29-2006, 12:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I don't like the speed idea, preventing someone from running away is stupid... if he is low on DP and runs away, you can pull him...

With your thing, someone low on DP is dead for sure, which is a bad point IMO.
They already get slower when they are in red dodge points, but this is only at the extremes. so around 70-80 percent of the time you can make a clean getaway pretty easily and come back fully recovered. This is because in O.J.P. you don't actually lose anything you can't recover in a saber fight (aside from lightning taking away health points). And force vulnerability is supposed to work at red dodge points but apparently it is not working with absorb 3 (which is what Hoc ni and I tested it with, we might have to test with different levels of absorb and force defense by actually choosing the powers etc.), so there goes your idea out the window. But like I said, it is all at the extremes, which leaves a big window for someone who wants to just run away to do it and do it easily.
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Old 12-29-2006, 12:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Well you did have Push 2 or 3, which also blocks Push of the same level like Absorb does.

You must've had something, there's not much else you can spend the 60 points on.

Also if someone wants to run away I don't see why he shouldn't be able too, the majority of points that we get are from dueling and gunfights, draining DP and not from killing others. I like that

Okay lol <3
I was focusing more on jump, attack, and saber defend. In the test with Hoc ni I did have the force powers (level 3, same as he) he tested on me while I was at red dodge points at level 3 plus absorb 3 though. Draining DP gives you skill points? The majority of points I get is from killing others though (In a point progression server), although it is pretty much easy to just run away... I personally just never liked the idea that you could just turn around and run away so easily without any penalties and my suggestion would fix it.
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Old 12-29-2006, 01:23 PM   #28
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I just tested with Max, and force vulnerability does work but only from behind. It is not supposed to work from the front? Hoc ni was under the impression that it was which put me under the impression that it was :P
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:23 PM   #29
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I've been doing some more testing with Max, and I realized that Absorb levels are different. But I was just under the impression that if Absorb levels were equivalent or higher than the force power being used then it would absorb it always. Hoc nor Sushi ever told me otherwise, and I apologize for the false bug. Well anyways, it seems that Absorb levels reflect the level of protection you would get if you were to choose a force power of that level. For example, absorb 1 will defend against push 3 but not if running, from behind, or jumping. Absorb 2 will defend against push 3 but not if jumping. Absorb 3 will defend push 3 always aside from behind/jumping from behind when in red dodge points. Sorry for the confusion.

*edit* Thanks again for the help Max.
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:29 PM   #30
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Suggestions:

*Maxstate's old suggestion for speed reborn* Make speed a toggle that if held down it grants you superior speed but also takes away force at x rate, and doesn't have such a huge initial cost. More for like bursts of speed.

PS. Maxstate please add/fix anything that I messed up on your old suggestion :P
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Old 12-29-2006, 03:40 PM   #31
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Updated bugs list:

**Lightning parries, the origin of this bug might be caused by saber idle damage/how sabers clashing effects parries

**Juyo has extremely fast transitions that may need some looking into

**Makashi has some fast transitions but to a lesser extent than Juyo, may or may not need some looking into.

**Juyo and Makashi getting stuck, usually happens when they are parried.

**Saber system exploit (Has been ticketed)

**Absorb not reflecting lightning when the user who is getting lightninged is in melee (I was told by JRHockney that it is supposed to reflect while in melee)

**Running doesn't make dodge point's regeneration slower. (Confirmed as a bug by JRHockney)


Updated Suggestions:

**Make it so when you are in a heavy bounce you cannot turn.

**Heavy bounces having a larger range in the mishap bar, JRHockney suggested roughly 55 or 60 through 90.

**Attack parries returning to how it used to be to make attack parrying more difficult. (I agree with Razors reduce attack parry ticket)

**Attack parries being able to interrupt pre-block animations so the first hit has the same amount of probability to occur as the others and attack parrying can be reverted to the way it used to be. (Now you pretty much have a hard time attack parrying the first hit because the pre-block animation isn't fast enough thus the rushing opponent gets a hit on you and get break your mishap plans for say, Heavy bounces.)

** The push/pull defend animations always playing when you are push/pulled should be altered, and vulnerabilities when in these animations need some looking into.

**Make player speed related to dodge points by a multiplier, x * dodge points = player speed where x = the multiplier. This would make it harder for players to easily just turn around and evade/run away (Which I tested against Hoc ni and worked very well). This suggestion would be for those who mind that people can enter a fight and easily getaway mid fight with 1/3 DP.

**Give more choices to the attacker when trying to catch a runner

***Maxstate's old suggestion for speed reborn* Make speed a toggle that if held down it grants you superior speed but also takes away force at x rate, and doesn't have such a huge initial cost. More for like bursts of speed.

That's about it.

Last edited by JackBaldy; 12-29-2006 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 12-29-2006, 04:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Makashi has some fast transitions but to a lesser extent than Juyo, may or may not need some looking into.
They're fine for me, trust me, most of these 'bugs' are ping related.
Just trust me for once you guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Juyo and Makashi getting stuck, usually happens when they are parried.
This is extremely annoying, confirmed bug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Absorb not reflecting lightning when the user who is getting lightninged is in melee (I was told by JRHockney that it is supposed to reflect while in melee)
Unless you're Yoda, 400 years old and have been training as a Jedi master for at least half as long, I don't see how that could work.
Mace Windu who is by the universe's standard a "level 18" Jedi master (Preceding only Palpatine and Yoda) could only reflect it back using his lightsaber.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
Updated Suggestions:

**Not being able to turn directions in a heavy bounce
This is very important and should stay in, as far as I'm concerned, small bounces and freezes should have you unable to move in direction too.
Not only is it unrealistic but it also takes away the possibility of backwhacking your opponent for a quick kill, which turns out to be a nice finishing move too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Heavy bounces having a larger range in the mishap bar, JRHockney suggested roughly 55 or 60 through 90.
I would like to see the mishap bar be affected by different attacks in different manners, like DFA's should pump it higher than a regular attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Attack parries returning to how it used to be to make attack parrying more difficult. (I agree with Razors reduce attack parry ticket)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Attack parries being able to interrupt pre-block animations so the first hit has the same amount of probability to occur as the others and attack parrying can be reverted to the way it used to be. (Now you pretty much have a hard time attack parrying the first hit because the pre-block animation isn't fast enough thus the rushing opponent gets a hit on you and get break your mishap plans for say, Heavy bounces.)
Try it with lower pings and higher sv_fps and report back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
** The push/pull defend animations always playing when you are push/pulled should be altered, and vulnerabilities when in these animations need some looking into.
Only 'trick' I can say I've gotten a lot of experience with in the short time I played base. I think maybe people should just not make any attempts at blocking a force power that is under their league?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Make player speed related to dodge points by a multiplier, x * dodge points = player speed where x = the multiplier. This would make it harder for players to easily just turn around and evade/run away (Which I tested against Hoc ni and worked very well). This suggestion would be for those who mind that people can enter a fight and easily getaway mid fight with 1/3 DP.
So when people get shot by gunners they're trying to approach they just fall to a stand still from all the shots they've taken?
There's a lot more thinking that needs to be done before you send such wild ideas out into the fray, I don't like it even if it was perfectly balanced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
**Give more choices to the attacker when trying to catch a runner
Agreed here, that's why I want saberthrow to be more useful as well...
Some suggestions:
-Increase speed with more levels bought.
-More damage
-More rotations
-Slow returning boomerang if pull 2 is purchased
-Ability to pick up when walked over
-Ability to damage people that walk into it when it's stuck in a wall
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
***Maxstate's old suggestion for speed reborn* Make speed a toggle that if held down it grants you superior speed but also takes away force at x rate, and doesn't have such a huge initial cost. More for like bursts of speed.
That's about it.
Burst of speed could make speed so much more useful and fun to use, although we should also think about balancing it.

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Old 12-29-2006, 04:56 PM   #33
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"Unless you're Yoda, 400 years old and have been training as a Jedi master for at least half as long, I don't see how that could work.
Mace Windu who is by the universe's standard a "level 18" Jedi master (Preceding only Palpatine and Yoda) could only reflect it back using his lightsaber."

Hoc ni told me it was supposed to reflect, so I went by what he said. Is this true or false?

"They're fine for me, trust me, most of these 'bugs' are ping related.
Just trust me for once you guys."

I tried making a video to show them, but it came out all black when I uploaded it to Youtube. If there is no problem with Juyo having such fast transitions then I would suggest the others get the same treatment.

"This is very important and should stay in, as far as I'm concerned, small bounces and freezes should have you unable to move in direction too.
Not only is it unrealistic but it also takes away the possibility of backwhacking your opponent for a quick kill, which turns out to be a nice finishing move too."

I meant make it so when you are in a heavy bounce you cannot turn. Sorry for my poor choice of words :P

"I would like to see the mishap bar be affected by different attacks in different manners, like DFA's should pump it higher than a regular attack."

Would add extra depth? Sure why not.

"Try it with lower pings and higher sv_fps and report back."

Generally I just want attack parrying to be how it used to be, right now it is way to common much like in 009 for my taste. Just my opinion on it, before those new pre-block animations and this new method of parrying was introduced attack parrying used to be much harder to do.

"Only 'trick' I can say I've gotten a lot of experience with in the short time I played base. I think maybe people should just not make any attempts at blocking a force power that is under their league?"

Well that would certainly fix my gripe against those defend animations. What about force powers that are equivalent in league? I really hated being force pushed spam in the Templar server, was unable to fight as it was being spammed and interrupting my every attack plus making vulnerable for the bots to get a cheap kill in :P

"So when people get shot by gunners they're trying to approach they just fall to a stand still from all the shots they've taken?
There's a lot more thinking that needs to be done before you send such wild ideas out into the fray, I don't like it even if it was perfectly balanced."

Well you got a point there. There could be other ways to make running away harder though.

"Agreed here, that's why I want saberthrow to be more useful as well...
Some suggestions:
-Increase speed with more levels bought.
-More damage
-More rotations
-Slow returning boomerang if pull 2 is purchased
-Ability to pick up when walked over
-Ability to damage people that walk into it when it's stuck in a wall"

The more options the merrier I say.

"Burst of speed could make speed so much more useful and fun to use, although we should also think about balancing it."

Agreed.
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Old 12-29-2006, 05:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
I just tested with Max, and force vulnerability does work but only from behind. It is not supposed to work from the front? Hoc ni was under the impression that it was which put me under the impression that it was :P
I thought that that's what we ended up doing when we created that. The strange thing is, I'm pretty sure you we're running away from me with your back turned when I used force power on you. Maybe it just needs a wider window in the red area to work better.

Quote:
Unless you're Yoda, 400 years old and have been training as a Jedi master for at least half as long, I don't see how that could work.
Mace Windu who is by the universe's standard a "level 18" Jedi master (Preceding only Palpatine and Yoda) could only reflect it back using his lightsaber.
Eh, so what! LOL This is a game, that was in the movies, and lightning needs a more effective counter measure. Of course absorb needs to cost more in general especially if we bring back this feature. Thats how we originally made it though in order to create some kind of balance against it. I think That feature might have disappeared when we made absorb a passive power. I think you had to turn it on in order to reflect it originally. I would still like to see this feature in again, maybe be just holding use with absorb selected. If you have your saber out, I say make the person switch to melee automatically for better movie realism.

Quote:
Only 'trick' I can say I've gotten a lot of experience with in the short time I played base. I think maybe people should just not make any attempts at blocking a force power that is under their league?
Agreed. Although, people at their league I think should have a slowdown or maybe even a stop like base had. This was a great way to catch up with gunners, although if we did bring this back, we might need a cool down with force power use in order to make sure they arnt spammed against gunners.


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Old 12-29-2006, 09:57 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
Running doesn't make dodge point's regeneration slower. (Confirmed as a bug by JRHockney)
Not a bug. Running never made dodge regen slower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I've always wondered why saberthrow doesn't kill
I probably forgot to adjust the saber throw damage. Bug ticket it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
And I just think it is waaay to easy to run away which is why I suggested it. There are many ways to run away and I do not think it is fair to be honest. There should just be a limit on how many times you can decide to just turn around and run away, I did this in a small duel map to JRHockney which gives me less options on where to go and I was easily able to go from 1/3 or lower to full even when I had low force which made my DP regeneration even slower. Why make it easy for someone to run away? I don't see the point, which is why probably the whole 'being at red dodge points' makes you slower, but that is only at the extremes and does not help you much and still leaves plenty of other times to run away.
That's where FP fatigue comes in. Players can be worn down and killed if they continuously run away when hurt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
The majority of points I get is from killing others though (In a point progression server), although it is pretty much easy to just run away... I personally just never liked the idea that you could just turn around and run away so easily without any penalties and my suggestion would fix it.
It's about 1/3 from HP damage and 2/3 from DP damage. The idea being that the player that does the blunt of the damage to a player gets MOST of skill points. However, it's still possible to get that 1/3 by finishing off weak players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
I just tested with Max, and force vulnerability does work but only from behind. It is not supposed to work from the front? Hoc ni was under the impression that it was which put me under the impression that it was :P
DP vulnerability only applies to rear attacks.


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Old 12-29-2006, 10:08 PM   #36
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"Not a bug. Running never made dodge regen slower." Hoc ni said it was?

"That's where FP fatigue comes in. Players can be worn down and killed if they continuously run away when hurt."

Yeah, that is what you would think at first glance. Only most of the time the attacker gets his force points wasted before the runner's do, and the attacker doesn't have many options at the moment. Anyways, Hoc ni, in our tests, always ran out of force points before I did.
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Old 12-29-2006, 11:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
*Maxstate's old suggestion for speed reborn* Make speed a toggle that if held down it grants you superior speed but also takes away force at x rate, and doesn't have such a huge initial cost. More for like bursts of speed.
task ticket it.


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Old 12-30-2006, 12:02 AM   #38
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Jack, please use the quote tags. I can't tell what you're saying vs quoting.


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Old 12-30-2006, 12:35 AM   #39
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Yeah sorry... I'll use quote tags more in the future.
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Old 12-30-2006, 03:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
"Not a bug. Running never made dodge regen slower." Hoc ni said it was?
I could have sworn it was made that way at one point. We went in and out of several different nerfs on running and got too many complaints from players that wanted to do it more the more we nerfed it. I thought we made the slower DP dregen in our last running change along with the stopped mishap regen because I thought that was apart of that suggestion that was taken. Oh well, guess not. It might be a good idea though.


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