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View Poll Results: what did you think how the plot flowed in KOTOR 2?
It seemed unbeatable from start to finish 2 7.41%
Great but i would have changed a few things 9 33.33%
Good but too long in some places, not long enough in others 12 44.44%
Only a few good moments 3 11.11%
Diabolical 1 3.70%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: what did you think of the plot *spoilers*
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:13 AM   #1
Rockstar
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Question what did you think of the plot *spoilers*

Hi everyone,

I've just finished the lightside and am now going through with the darkside but i would like to see if anyone agrees with my views on the plot.

I loved nearly every aspect of this game in terms of great characters, dialogue, equipment and combat and enjoyed most of the plot. However, i felt that the plot lost its flow towards the end - this mainly comes down to the game not being long enough (even if that meant cutting some time spent on other planets in order to make a couple more settings towards the end)

Firstly, there was basically NO build up to facing Darth Nihilus. This guy looked awesome and was the main face on the cover yet there was no persuit of him or even a story for him. You just jump on a ship and kill him?

Secondly, the persuit of the Jedi Masters... this is where most of the game is spent yet when i was playing i felt as if i was setting the stage for a long chain of big events when the game gets wrapped up quite quickly afterwards. I think it would have been better to face Darth Sion on another planet (after killing Nihilus on his ship) who would then give you the whereabouts of Kriea on malacore.

I think the whole pragus phase of the game could have been cut (even halved) and another planet could have been introduced at the end.

Did anybody else find themselves feeling unsatisfied at the end of the game? thinking... "that's it?"

Jedi Outcast and Academy were good for well lengthed plots and while this game was far longer it still felt as if it were not long enough.

what are your thoughts fellas?
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:52 AM   #2
Diego Varen
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I liked TSL and I prefer it to KOTOR. I however would've changed several things. I would've got rid of GO-TO and kept him as someone you meet on Nar Shaddaa and have both Brianna the Handmaiden and Mical the Disciple. I would've shortened Peragus and Telos, so Korriban could be longer and I would've liked several Lightsabers at the beginning of the game, which you could find on a corpse.
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:54 AM   #3
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You chose some rather...odd poll choices there, so it's kind of impossible to cast a vote, but I'll still give my opinion.

I didn't really like the plot. For what it was supposed to be, it was pretty deep and interesting. But I honestly didn't feel that it was a great plot for a Star Wars story.

Peragus was way too long, and wasn't fun like Taris was. Telos/Citadel station was fine, but the lengthy Peragus kind of ruined it by making the further delay seem worse.

The main focus of the game, finding the four Jedi, had underdeveloped motivation, but for that part of the game it didn't matter. Gameplay and the planets themselves were the real fun part of the game.

And then there was the ending (I mean everything after returning to dantooine), which suffered greatly from the game being unfinished. Plot holes, crucial explanations left out, and greatly missed content totally ruined it.

The plot in the game had potential, but was ruined by incompletion.
The intended plot of the game was certainly deep and interesting, but I personally am not a big fan of, just as a matter of opinion.


I agree with all of Pottsie's suggestion's, too.


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Old 01-07-2007, 01:51 PM   #4
Titanius Anglesmith
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I loved the plot in K2. The only problem with it was that I didn't really feel like I was heading towards a main goal, I was just going to different planets killing a bunch of people so I could find some Jedi.


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Old 01-07-2007, 10:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
I loved the plot in K2. The only problem with it was that I didn't really feel like I was heading towards a main goal, I was just going to different planets killing a bunch of people so I could find some Jedi.
I agree entirely.

I think if i'd felt that after returning to dantoine, or even after the telos war, that you should have felt that you were hunting the sith down maybe it would have been more exciting. Like eagerweasel said, i felt like i spent most of the time finding some jedi for the purpose of 3 minutes of dialogue and then wrapping up the game quickly... almost makes me wish they put an expansion out to fill in the holes, maybe add an extra planet to face Sion on before facing Kreia on Malicore V. The other part of the expansion could be finding out what happens on the exiles journey and perhaps finding Revan and opening another smaller plot
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Old 01-08-2007, 12:22 PM   #6
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Imo it has a good plot (there are some ideas in it that I can't stand though), I liked the innovative idea to have the game's main villain in your party too.

Combat animations were really good, alltogther the graphics are kinda disappointing though.

Interaction with party members (apart from Kreia and HK) was a poor and actually a step back from Kotor I. The PC (the Exile) is somehow not interesting to me.

I remember the first time I played the game, I was fascinated by it, but the ending was extremely lame to me. Now that I've played it several times, I don't rank it among my favourite games anymore, but it's still a great game to me.
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Old 01-08-2007, 01:34 PM   #7
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The plot?! A half-baked, half-finished, cobbled together mess that makes my head ache just making sense of it. The game had some AMAZING concepts, but the follow-through stinks!

So, you're trying to gather the last Masters to help you destroy the Sith, only to have them be ho help at all. So, there's the bounty on Jedi that gets everyone after you, only to have it abruptly dropped and said crimelord stowing aboard your ship. Three interesting antagonists that could have held a plot on their own are reduced to perfunctory boss battles. We know nothing more about Sion or Nihilus at the end of the story than we see in their first appearance. Traya is remotely interesting, but even that position is a two-way split with Kreia and Atris.

Characters? Influence either locks up the dialogue tree tight, preventing you from getting anything out, or you gain max influence, get a dialogue dump, Jedi them up, and never get anything past it.

And destroy the Force? Oooookayyyy. Interesting concept, and needed a lot more explanation and methodology behind it.




By splitting the antagonism into three parts, it diluted all of them.


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Old 01-08-2007, 02:21 PM   #8
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Too long in some parts, too short in others. Example: On Nar Shadaa, you can run around for hours doing good/bad deeds for seemingly diddly-squat, then run round for hours more, waiting for the Exchange to phone you, which they may not do. BUT, Korriban takes about half an hour if you skip through Kreia's spiels...

As for plot twist - what plot twist?! The 'plot twist' as you call it was transparent from the beginning!



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Old 01-08-2007, 03:02 PM   #9
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My thoughts are that the story started quite well, but someway, somewhere, sometime, it lost its way. I dunno, the manipulation of Kreia, her shadowy influence everywhere the party passed thru was awesome, but it was all a big letdown (like Nihilus) when the story trasformed itself on a nonsense of mysticals-babbling about the Force. And that was the (unsatisfying) awnser for all the gaps and plot holes intetionally left trought the game: THE FORCE

The good side is that Kreia was probally the deepest character ever seen on a RPG game.
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:09 PM   #10
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Hm...playing through both. It is a pretty good RPG, but its not perfect. I doubt any game is perfect, all games has faults and...in some sense, pretty lame once you see it for far too long.

The storyline is much more deeper and cynical. I like it. I was shocked at the plot-twist of Kreia wanting to be killing by you so that you can become a greater Jedi, of the suprise when the Jedi Masters turning against you if you are LS and Kreia condemeing you for slaughtering the Jedi Masters when you are DS. Of course, I was not suprised at Kreia, you know, betraying you and is secretly a Sith Lord...it's pretty obivous of that. But it's the reason why she betrayed you which was interesting...

Other than that, other than its darkness, especially in Peragus...K2 is okay. That's it. It has a superb story, and I find new stuff...but I hate reading books over and over again. In K2, you could do different things, and get different responses, so that is good.

As for the Infulence system...It is good on paper, but really, hampers roleplaying a bit. I hate it, intenstly, altough it works, and it does causes for you to actually work to understand and gain their trust. If I had a PC, I would basically download mods to max out my infulence with everyone so that I do not have to worry about it. I know they will not take it out, seeing how it is effective, and it, in some cases, do allow you to change the alignment of your allies. And it makes more sense than gaining levels, and then talking to your characters.

I know the Infulence System will return in K3, but I would like it to have some sort of improvment, so that it can become better...and maybe, have the characters actually be twisted/enlighted at the end...and some more dialouge once you turn some party members to Jedi.

Overall, K2 is a medicore game, with a great plot. Dividing the threat into 3 enemies made them all seem weak, but it was Kreia that saved the whole mess. If they would have cut Kreia, then the plot would have suffered big time. Kreia had movivation to train you and make you stronger...Sion is a zombie who fights to ease the pain of Malachor V, only to realize that by giving up life, the pain disappers. And Nihlius, he's another Darth Malak, with a lot of troops, great plans for destruction, and easily wiped out.

I think, in the long run, having Atris as Darth Traya instead of Kreia would really make me angry. You know nothing of Atris, other than she hates you and she kicks you out. So, the betrayal isn't really that interseting, and Atris becomes a lame villian. Sure, she got movivation as a Jedi jihadist, but the movivation is...erm...just as empty as Sion and Nihlius. Having Kreia as Darth Traya actually make you mad, but at Kreia, and not at the game. And the plot-twist of Kreia wanting to make you stronger so that you can kill her...Ouch.

And the ending at the end, I see that as being complete, and in fact, actually pretty good compared to the rest of the game. However, I'm referring to the DS ending. In the LS ending, Malachor V blows up, and you fly to the Unknown Regions, The End. Bah, that's an incomplete cliffhanger (Did Bungie advise Obisidan here?). But in the DS ending, you see something different. Malachor V remains, and you zoom out to a dystopian world, with a ship being built. The camera turns to the Unknown Regions...and the title: "Claiming the Dark Throne" hints on what is happening...You have became Dark Lord of the False Sith, and with your Dark Jedi party, you now prepare to help Revan in his quest to battle the True Sith...as well as attack the Republic. This ending is, to me, less of a cliffhanger. The game here really do end, as you have fufilled your destiny, and now ascend to the Dark Throne...

Once you see the plot though, it really isn't as good when you play it again and again.

And of course, the cut content really do help the plot. Obisidan must secretly be paying Team Gizka to restore this cut content so that fans of K2 won't go on a protest and claim the plot is bad. Now that the ending will be restored, it still is good, giving more details and making K3 look a bit better. Still, I won't change my ranking, for the cut content really doesn't change anything important. The fundmental foundations still remain.

So the answer: "Only a few good moments." I do hope Obsidan does not lose hope with this, though. I hope it remains in this ethical stance, neither totally LS or DS, but with lots of shades of grey. K3 is coming up, and I do hope they will make a stunning story.
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Old 01-08-2007, 09:44 PM   #11
JawaJoey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
The only problem with it was that I didn't really feel like I was heading towards a main goal, I was just going to different planets killing a bunch of people so I could find some Jedi.
I agree, and I don't mind. Going around, doing things on planets, that was the main part of the game, and the best part, and it was that basic gameplay that made it fun. It was that it didn't tie well to the plot, and the other flaws, that ruined the game.

The balance between planets was kind of off, though. Nar Shadaa was too important. You can't get HK-47, Mira/Hanharr, and Goto without it, but it's a big planet and it would be nice to be stronger than being at the first planet when you do it.


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Old 01-08-2007, 10:34 PM   #12
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Put it this way. TSL, not KotOR, is the whole reason why I became a fan of the KotOR saga in the first place. I've never ever come across a video game plot and characters that is IMO so captivating, compelling and thought provoking. That's probably because I haven't played many games though.

It was a refreshing change from the whole 'stop the bad guy with the super weapon, black and white, basic, stereotypical Star Wars story', which gets old, fast IMO. So in other words, I thought TSL was brilliant, and remarkably, it could have been so much better, but LA just had to f*ck that up didnít they?

And I actually found the plot twist about Kreia far more surprising than the IMO predictable and overrated plot twist in KotOR. Huh you say? No no. Finding out that Kreia is Darth Traya and is the villain youíre supposed to stop wasnít surprising in the slightest, as it was never meant to be a plot twist in the first place. Some people seemed to have missed the point there. Obsidian made no effort to hide it, nor did Kreia. Even the player was allowed to distrust her from the beginning.

The point with Kreia was to discover why she chose to tag along with the Exile in the first place, or in other words, what her motivations were for following you (the Exile). Her intentions only become clear towards the end. So her betrayal wasn't expected to be unexpected, the point was to find out why she would betray you and why she followed you, which IMO, wasnít exactly clear until the latter stages of the game.


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Old 01-09-2007, 09:44 AM   #13
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And were you satisfied with her motives and intents, once you found out?
I was not...seemed farfetched to me.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:04 PM   #14
Titanius Anglesmith
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This doesn't really have anything to with the topic, but Architect, you could use spoiler tags occasionally.


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Old 01-09-2007, 07:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
This doesn't really have anything to with the topic, but Architect, you could use spoiler tags occasionally.
Yes I know, I should.

I have this silly habit of assuming that since KotOR and TSL have both been out for years, all those who visit this forum have played the games before.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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