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Old 01-07-2007, 12:31 PM   #1
TiE23
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Moral Kombat... this is bad, really bad...

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/moral-k...ary-225876.php

It's basically Bowling for Columbine meets video games. Just see if if you haven't already.

Things:
- I played my first M-Rated game when I was 8 (Unreal) and I didn't like it, it scared me, not scarred. I remember watching my dad play Hexen, Doom and Blood, scary stuff for me, now it's just funny.

- This quote just about wraps-up their argument: "We literally enter into a world that is so realistic, that we forget it is a make believe world. Now, we're not there yet, but we keep getting closer." Wow... yeah, I always thought that carrying around a keyboard and typing ~ god would make me invincible until I jumped off the roof, that hurt.

- "Our culture is going to accept a different level of violence, whether it be film, television, or video games." Well, yeah. It's kinda like a naturally violent outlet where we used to kill people we hated, now we just watch movies of people who do.

- One point they mention that Microsoft Flight Simulator can be used to fly planes one has never been in before and fly them into buildings. Right... So we should ruin the fun of tens of thousands of people by removing flight simulators cause of some hunch. How about we ban all racing games, people crash them.

Is it just me, or are we going to be suffering a Fahrenheit 451 sort of situation with video games...

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Last edited by TiE23; 01-07-2007 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 01-07-2007, 12:49 PM   #2
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These people are retarded.


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Old 01-07-2007, 01:09 PM   #3
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You realize who that was saying "we've always recognized violence as a vice, and not as a virtue," right? Yep, that's Jack Thompson. This movie already fails.

Oh, and hey Lieberman, it has a ratings system, it's called the ESRB.

There's a new show on the Discovery HD channel called "Gamer Generation." I watched the last 10-20 minutes of it last night. It was pretty painful. They had Jack Thompson on there, he was talking about all the school shootings he blames on video games. They also had one of those brain studies. Same story: "These studies show that while playing first-person shooter games, gamers have aggressive brain activity. However, there is no link between aggressive brain activity and aggressive behavior." They also showed games that are more than 5 years old, talking about how realistic they are, like usual. I'll have to see if I can catch the whole thing, see if they completely ignore the negative effects of sports, the ESRB, or the positive effects of video games, like usual.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:54 PM   #4
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Why can't we make the Puritans leave?



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Old 01-07-2007, 01:55 PM   #5
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Hm, it looks fairly objective to my eyes. Had it been a message to ban video games the trailer that was linked to would have made that message very clear, as Fahrenheit 911 and bowling for columbine did. Those movie trailers didn't end with, "are school shooting to be blamed on the irresponsibility of gun manufacturers?". No. The trailer told you that it was. Therefore, this seems to be a fairly objective take on the situation.

And saying Jack Thompson's mere presence in the movie makes it fail is immature and biased. It is clear to me that both sides of the argument are going to be taken into consideration, hence Lieberman and Thompson as well as some industry members.

Oh, and seriously, some video games are really sick and disgusting, no matter how you say that "it doesn't affect me" everything affects everyone good or bad so you can't simply nullify their arguments by saying "bah idiots, they have no idea what they're talking about"

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Old 01-07-2007, 02:56 PM   #6
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What else is new?

Until Thompson, Lieberman, and who ever else on the "Ban Violent Video Games" bandwagon, actuallly succeed in banning them, I'm going to keep on playing my sweet sweet violent games.

And just an observation, did you see the size of the Xbox controller the kid was holding? That controller right there should be banned.

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Old 01-07-2007, 03:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxStar
Hm, it looks fairly objective to my eyes. Had it been a message to ban video games the trailer that was linked to would have made that message very clear, as Fahrenheit 911 and bowling for columbine did. Those movie trailers didn't end with, "are school shooting to be blamed on the irresponsibility of gun manufacturers?". No. The trailer told you that it was. Therefore, this seems to be a fairly objective take on the situation.

And saying Jack Thompson's mere presence in the movie makes it fail is immature and biased. It is clear to me that both sides of the argument are going to be taken into consideration, hence Lieberman and Thompson as well as some industry members.

Oh, and seriously, some video games are really sick and disgusting, no matter how you say that "it doesn't affect me" everything affects everyone good or bad so you can't simply nullify their arguments by saying "bah idiots, they have no idea what they're talking about"
Have you heard the insane things Jack Thompson has said? Even the crap he's done in court? His opinion shouldn't even be included.

I don't see how you could say it seems fairly objective after watching that trailer. Tell me, where was the counter-argument? What do you see about that trailer that isn't biased?

Oh, and I don't deny there are some sick video games out there. There are some games I don't play just on principle. But I have to disagree with the "everything effects everyone" thing. It might "effect" you but what does that really amount to? If a video game "effects" me I might hit the computer table with my fist or something when I lose, but I won't go out and shoot people.

Also, no one ever looks at sports. They hook gamer's heads up to brain scanners and look at the "aggressive" readings in the brain. $10 bucks if you could do the same thing to someone playing football, you'd get higher readings of the same thing. And once again, does the fact that it effects you in some way really matter? Isn't that why we play games in the first place, to do something exciting?

Last edited by IG-64; 01-07-2007 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 01-07-2007, 03:41 PM   #8
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There was no argument, it was simply an advertisement for a film. I didn't say any clear cut side taken and even though Jack Thompson is arguably insane, he and Lieberman and Hillary clinton are the the "head honchos" so to speak of the movement and to not include them would to appear one sided.

I didn't mean that every effect of being affected would be a violent response but meant that it was a response, even in the smallest amounts, a good example being your pounding of the table.

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Old 01-07-2007, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxStar
There was no argument, it was simply an advertisement for a film. I didn't say any clear cut side taken and even though Jack Thompson is arguably insane, he and Lieberman and Hillary clinton are the the "head honchos" so to speak of the movement and to not include them would to appear one sided.

I didn't mean that every effect of being affected would be a violent response but meant that it was a response, even in the smallest amounts, a good example being your pounding of the table.
And once again, why should it matter? Why should we be worried if something effects us?

And how can you possibly say there was no argument in that trailer? Every second of that trailer bleeds anti-videogame. "Video games were used to train terrorists" "we forget we're playing a video game because they're so realistic" "we accept a new level of violence" I could pick out argumentative quotes from that trailer all day.
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Old 01-07-2007, 05:01 PM   #10
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I'd like to see them try to take down an industry that's grown beyond the movie industry.

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Old 01-07-2007, 05:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk Former
I'd like to see them try to take down an industry that's grown beyond the movie industry.

I laugh.



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Old 01-07-2007, 06:51 PM   #12
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I suggest we ban everything. Then nobody can cause harm to anybody. I call for a ban on negative thoughts too.


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Old 01-07-2007, 07:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I laugh.
At...?


The movie industry is still virtually unstoppable.

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Old 01-07-2007, 07:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxStar
There was no argument, it was simply an advertisement for a film.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary, lol
ar·gu·ment /ˈɑrgyəmənt/ [ahr-gyuh-muhnt]
–noun

- a discussion involving differing points of view; debate: They were deeply involved in an argument about inflation.
- an address or composition intended to convince or persuade; persuasive discourse.
RoxStar, I'm pretty sure we all know what this movie is about. It's definitely not about how great games are, that's for sure.

Also, I'd love to sit down with JT and have him watch me play games. I'd play Twilight Princess, Shadow of the Colossus, Half Life 2, and Oblivion and dare him to say they aren't cool.


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Old 01-07-2007, 07:34 PM   #15
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SIgh this is plain typical finding the blame game to all the violence that
kids,adults etc due in this world. NEver does this guy meantion parents
involvment on these kids' descisions to let them play these games(same with movies).
No you wont see this guy go after parents will you? Never in his life.
All these school shootings and any other violent or whatever these kids get
themselves into. Where are the parents or legal guardians I say.
If these people go after video games in general what about movies?
Movies have been going closer to a century. A century of showing violence .
If theres anyone to blame its the parents in my oppinion. There duty to teach
there kids right from wrong. A duty to prepare them for society.
A duty to make there kids acceptable into society. Plus there parents can simply
say no to video games.

I admit to playing video games everyday. Most of them have some form of violence.
But it doesnt change my attitude of how I should act in society.
I am no idiot to be shooting up schools,robbing and other various crimes
in are society. And why do I think this way? Because of how my parents have
brought me up.

I admit that some video games are to violent in my oppinion. Some dont need
to have as much violent content in my oppinion but I avoid them in general.
Which should be up to the parents on what video games there children
play if they alow them to. Going after video games is like going after
movies and anything else that depicts violence from books to tv shows etc.
Movies and tv have been accepted in are society I cant see why video games
cant as well. BUt because of some poeple playing the blame game for all these
school shootings on video games are society wont be changing
by going after video games. The answer is to educate parents(the ones that need it)

Ps no offence to any good parents out there. I am just going after parents
that dont care or play careless when it comes to there children.
I feel as though parents need to be involved in childrens lives through teaching,
example etc (which parents do but some do need some help) Since what is
the real answer why some kids are shooting fellow students up at schools
or other various forms of crime?


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Old 01-07-2007, 08:54 PM   #16
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I say that kids who shoot-up schools have ****ed-up minds, not just ****ed-up games.


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Old 01-08-2007, 03:26 AM   #17
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Do notice that they never say "violent video games", just "video games". And every single clip is from one of the violent games...


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Old 01-08-2007, 04:18 AM   #18
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Why can't we make the Puritans leave?
It isn't a good idea, it was done in Plymouth many years ago, they just made their own country and are now trying to force their beliefs on the world. :P






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Old 01-08-2007, 04:38 AM   #19
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It isn't a good idea, it was done in Plymouth many years ago, they just made their own country and are now trying to force their beliefs on the world. :P
Hey cant you imagine what this world would be like without america? Home of the free

Im pretty much sure these people against video games dont stop to wonder
whats the parents involvment in there kids lives since they jsut keep bashing
andbashing video games. And not only do children play video games as well
adults play video games as well and these games that are rated mature
rating are not meant for little kids to be playing.
There is a ESRB rating system. A guide for parents for if theres any certain
game that they dont want there kids to be playing.
But I feel as though some parents dont care about ratings they just let there child
play whatever video game (not caring about the rating) to there hearts
content. Which could have a detrimental affect on the childs attitude etc.

If theres anything these people should be going after its parents in general.
THousands of kids play video games everyday. You dont see thousands
of school shootings do you?


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Old 01-08-2007, 05:11 AM   #20
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I'm so relieved that these old rich men can enlighten the public on the subject of video games. Rarely has mankind been subject to something this evil. I hope they'll reveal the true murderous nature of the cold blooded killers known as "gamers" once and for all.




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Old 01-08-2007, 08:01 AM   #21
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I watched that for about 5 seconds, then I had to turn it off.

Complete bull****.


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Old 01-08-2007, 05:01 PM   #22
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Just last night I murdered 20 people.

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Old 01-08-2007, 06:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pho3nix
I watched that for about 5 minutes, then I had to turn it off.

Complete bull****.
It's like 2 minutes and 40 seconds.

But, I do agree that it is complete bull****. The games haven't effected me. Neither many of the people I know.


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Old 01-08-2007, 06:34 PM   #24
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The games haven't effected me. Neither many of the people I know.
Games have the opposite effect on me. When I need to relax(at least for me it's relaxing), I just pop in a game I've beaten and put it on the easy setting. This way I make sure I can easily win and it won't make me more stressed. But that's my home remedy.

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Old 01-08-2007, 07:49 PM   #25
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This movie s.


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Old 01-09-2007, 10:50 PM   #26
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Best picture EVAR Tie23. I agree with mostly everyone on this, especially MasterRoss08. He makes a good point. Blame should fall on the parents and the people who sell teen and mature rated games to little kids. Failed.


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Old 01-10-2007, 12:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herminator
Do notice that they never say "violent video games", just "video games". And every single clip is from one of the violent games...
Well, I did see a halfsecond clip of Myst: Revelation. That's about as non-violent as they come without being kiddie games (quite an interesting game, but the puzzles are a bit hardcore).

I enjoy the bit "terrists learned how to fly on a sim." Well, actually they learned to fly with an instructor at a flightschool. They might have used a sim to learn the controls configuration, but even that can be found easily elsewhere. I daresay that the comparison is not exactly apt.

My view of the entire trailer is that it presents a single view, that games are questionable at best and criminally irresponsible to allow people to own at worst. Jack says at the beginning that never before has violence been seen in a positive light. I wonder where he's getting the idea that it is. Never to my knowledge has actual violence been requested or encouraged by any videogame. Perhaps he gets confused about what 'reality' is himself, but all studies done on the topic have not shown any direct correlation between playing games and physical violence. Real people are apparently not having trouble distinguishing fact from fiction.

And so, based on this mountain of completely circumstantial and anecdotal evidence, these people intend to... what, exactly? What is the result they want? Oh yeah, lol. That's right.

It's called censorship.

How nice of them to think of the children.


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Old 01-10-2007, 07:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt-Man
Blame should fall on the parents and the people who sell teen and mature rated games to little kids. Failed.
I'd like to point out that my parents never ever bought one of the "violent" games for me and yet, I played many of them. I seriously doubt many people sell "violent" games to little kids. However, often most of the "little kids" know more about how and where the can download those games, than their parents do. So yes, one possible point of view is: blame the parents. And there is surely some truth to this. But on the other hand, it's the hell of a job to keep stuff away from your kids when the whole world is almost "forcing it down their throats". Also, why not blame those, who give a reason to the industry to produce "violent" media? I mean, no one offers ketchup-onion-vinegar-coffee-flavoured milk shakes to the public. Hm. Or blame the weapon industry. Or those who invented microprocessors. Yes, that's real democracy: freedom of choice who's to blame.


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Old 01-10-2007, 08:17 AM   #29
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Yes I agree with your points there Ray. I agree with that almost all video
games have some form of violence in there games. But not all games
have violence in them. So the game industry shouldnt be stopped
over some peoples quick and biased to judgement that video games are the cause
of all the violence that some kids do when they dont have concrete evidence
linking the violence in video games to the conduct that some kids do in real life.

The video game industry isnt only for kids is one thing they should
learn first off. Alot of adults also play video games. There is a big variety
of games meant for enjoyment of kids and adults alike. It all comes down to
the parent on what there kids should and shouldnt play.

Now on that one comment on the cashiers of stores.
Basically my oppinion on this is what are they there for? They are there to just
check off what you have bought and make sure you payed for there products.
I agree that they shouldnt be selling teen and mature games to kids which
is why thats been taken care of already. There is some law or some regulation
stopping the selling of mature games to underage kids. (just like beer,wine etc)
But the problem here is(ive read this in gameinformer magizine)when kids
go to there parents if they cant get what they want and have there parent come
back and buy the game for them. So in this story the cashier does warn the
parent on the conduct of the game but the parent still buys it for
there child.

So what have we learned here?
1 Kids are not stupid. if they cant get what they want they go to there parents

2 Either the parent doesnt know the conduct of the game or they just dont care
or they that the conduct in the games is ok for there children.

So basically it is all up to the parents in my oppinion. They need to either
be educated if they dont know whats going on.
They need to know what the child is getting out of playing video games(behavior wise)
And of course teach there kids that violence isnt aceptable in society
and isnt right morally to hopefully end all this violence that kids are
getting themselves into.


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Old 01-10-2007, 09:31 AM   #30
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In the end, it's up to the person that plays the game to be intelligent enough to realize that such behavior is not appropiate in real life, but some are dumb enough and they try to copy it and give us game players a bad reputation.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Master
but some are dumb enough and they try to copy it and give us game players a bad reputation.
As well as give jackasses like Tack Jhompson their fame ><


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Old 01-10-2007, 11:21 AM   #32
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Dude, at my school, the only entertainment that seems to affect my fellow students is the **** they see on MTV when they were 12 years old. I've never seen anyone affected by videogames in any negative way.

I just think that these people have a personal vendetta against video games but I have no idea why. But mostly, Jack Thompson is just an ambulance chaser who looks for anything offensive and sues them in name of those "effected" by the stuff.


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Old 01-11-2007, 05:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterRoss08
So what have we learned here?
1 Kids are not stupid. if they cant get what they want they go to there parents

2 Either the parent doesnt know the conduct of the game or they just dont care
or they that the conduct in the games is ok for there children.
3.) Children do things, without their parent's knowledge?

Quote:
And of course teach there kids that violence isnt aceptable in society
and isnt right morally to hopefully end all this violence that kids are
getting themselves into.
Then, if violence is not acceptable in society, why is it that a good number of video games offer several ways to perform violence in more or less realistic ways? Why are there games where the whole gameplay is based on the act of violence? And why is it the parent's job to teach that violence is not "acceptable" when everywhere else in the media and who knows where violence is shown as "normal"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Master
In the end, it's up to the person that plays the game to be intelligent enough to realize that such behavior is not appropiate in real life, but some are dumb enough and they try to copy it and give us game players a bad reputation.
No. It gives society a bad reputation.


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Old 01-11-2007, 11:08 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
Then, if violence is not acceptable in society, why is it that a good number of video games offer several ways to perform violence in more or less realistic ways? Why are there games where the whole gameplay is based on the act of violence? And why is it the parent's job to teach that violence is not "acceptable" when everywhere else in the media and who knows where violence is shown as "normal"?
Um. Real violence is not equivalent to virtual violence. I see no one saying that real violence is acceptable (oh okay, political leaders, football/hockey teams etc., excepted). It's not real and it shouldn't be treated as real. Also, people shouldn't be treated as if they lack the capacity to determine what is real and what is not...because apparently they do have the ability. Their choices are ALL their own. Games didn't start violence. Games haven't been shown to increase real violence. Games don't need to be censored by anyone other than the legal guardians or the individual themselves.


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Old 01-16-2007, 11:40 AM   #35
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EU makes a GREAT decision...
Take that EU...I wonder how long the US can keep from following suit.



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Old 01-16-2007, 01:26 PM   #36
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Ugh... I'm now depressed. This EU declaration may leave ban-related decisions to individual states, but it seems to be perpetuating anti-games sentiment.

No form of entertainment- no matter how fictionally violent- should be banned. Responsible adults should be allowed to entertain themselves with violent movies, violent literature and violent games. End of story.

Parents shouldn't be buying their children violent games NOW, and people have no right to restrict MY usage of violent entertainment simply because there are awful parents around.


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Old 01-16-2007, 01:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis
Um. Real violence is not equivalent to virtual violence. I see no one saying that real violence is acceptable (oh okay, political leaders, football/hockey teams etc., excepted). It's not real and it shouldn't be treated as real. Also, people shouldn't be treated as if they lack the capacity to determine what is real and what is not...because apparently they do have the ability. Their choices are ALL their own. Games didn't start violence. Games haven't been shown to increase real violence. Games don't need to be censored by anyone other than the legal guardians or the individual themselves.
I'm not saying people can't differ between reality and virtuality, nor do I say that games start, cause, increase or whatever violence. I just say that society sometimes isn't helpful, to the responsible and not awful parent, in keeping children away from "virtual violence", they're simply "forced" to deal with the situation (and kind of left alone with it), that their children are exposed to "adult content", that's all. I do not even limit this to games.

I agree with Spider's above post.


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Old 01-16-2007, 09:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider AL
Ugh... I'm now depressed. This EU declaration may leave ban-related decisions to individual states, but it seems to be perpetuating anti-games sentiment.

No form of entertainment- no matter how fictionally violent- should be banned. Responsible adults should be allowed to entertain themselves with violent movies, violent literature and violent games. End of story.

Parents shouldn't be buying their children violent games NOW, and people have no right to restrict MY usage of violent entertainment simply because there are awful parents around.
Ditto. Just because a kid imitates something from a video game and gets injured doesn't mean that they all the gamers should suffer for the kids stupidity, but they should put more warnings so the parents could get an idea of what the game is about, and the developers shoul state that they are not responsible if people copy some thing from the game and get injured or killed.
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:20 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
I just say that society sometimes isn't helpful, to the responsible and not awful parent, in keeping children away from "virtual violence", they're simply "forced" to deal with the situation (and kind of left alone with it), that their children are exposed to "adult content", that's all. I do not even limit this to games.
I still don't see what the problem is then. Why is it society's problem that you want to censor things for you children? That's a choice you make in their upbringing, and it's yours alone. If you really want "society" to be helpful (read: government impose bans on legitimate media), I figure you'll soon discover it is all too willing to help you. Though it might go a bit farther than you like. Consider the Bible - it contains parts that are certainly violent, but would you even dream of letting society be "helpful" in deciding who reads it? I wouldn't. People can read what they like, and more power to them. If you don't want your kids reading/playing/watching violent media, it's your responsibility to stop them.

This isn't to say that there aren't groups that you could join that might help you with your job, such as evaluating certain books, movies, music, games and whatnot. There are many such sites. Gamerdad.com is one (txa is a reviewer there, I believe). There's no problem using these services since no one's rights are being infringed by your choices. The moment people start trying to tell other people what to do, however, is the moment rights are infringed. If you enact a law saying no one under 18 gets into R movies, you've stepped on the parent of that child's rights and basically said you know better than them how to raise their own child. Is there a justification for that?

No, because there's no evidence that people become physically violent when they play games. Parental incompetence is hardly a reason to take people's rights away save when that incompetence poses actual danger to their children - and there is no reason to believe that there is such a danger involved in this case.


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Old 01-17-2007, 09:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Master
the developers shoul state that they are not responsible if people copy some thing from the game and get injured or killed.
Better. How about that: the people who got injured had the choice not to get injured? I mean, all those victims from all those school shootings, it was their choice to be at school when the shootings happened. All they needed to do is not going to school. But nooo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis
I still don't see what the problem is then. Why is it society's problem that you want to censor things for you children?
What's society without children? Where would society be without children? It's not society's problem that I don't want my children to watch violent content, or that I want valuable content for them, but it's society's problem if I simply cannot do this because everyone gives a damn about it and is broadcasting bull**** over all media available. I don't see why Spider's right for adult content entertainment should have an impact on my and my children's right to go without these things without that I have to take care of it. I don't want anybody else to take my parental responsibility for me, but society should sure as hell respect what I am doing as parent. Again, where would society be, if noone would take the responsibility to raise children. And, take a look where society currently *is* ..

Quote:
That's a choice you make in their upbringing, and it's yours alone.
Whose right is it to determine that I have to shield my children from things the media industry finds appropriate for everybody to see?

Quote:
If you really want "society" to be helpful (read: government impose bans on legitimate media)
I don't want bans on anything. I want the media to show a bit more responsibility when it comes to the public available broadcasting of things.

Quote:
Consider the Bible - it contains parts that are certainly violent, but would you even dream of letting society be "helpful" in deciding who reads it? I wouldn't. People can read what they like, and more power to them.
The difference is, I don't have to buy/obtain a bible, it's under my control.

Quote:
If you don't want your kids reading/playing/watching violent media, it's your responsibility to stop them.
It's also the media's responsibility NOT to provide/force it to anyone who's available for receiving. It's a bit like the question how a firewall's default policy should be. Should everything be opened and the user has to decide what has to be closed and left outside, or should all ports be closed by default and the user can open them to let the things through that he wants to.

Quote:
The moment people start trying to tell other people what to do, however, is the moment rights are infringed.
The moment I am told that it is me who has to decide not to be exposed to something and have to watch my step so I don't get exposed, just to support your laziness to explizitly chose, and actively do something for your adult entertainment, my rights are infringed, because I have to take care of your ****. The other way around, I don't infringe your rights when I say, watch your stuff, but don't force it to me. But I don't want to cut anyones right to have horse sex porn up their anus if they want to, but I want a more responsible way it is made public through the media.

Quote:
If you enact a law saying no one under 18 gets into R movies, you've stepped on the parent of that child's rights and basically said you know better than them how to raise their own child. Is there a justification for that?
No. And I wouldn't want such laws. The point is, here the parents are actively deciding to take their underage kid into adult movies, I don't even see a problem here.

Quote:
No, because there's no evidence that people become physically violent when they play games.
There is no evidence that people become physical violent when they consume to violent media. I'm not talking about (violent) games only. Sure is, the game "Donald's quest for ant ****" won't cause it either. If you take game A which contains violent gameplay, and game B doesn't, by simple logic, which one is at least giving the example to act violent, even if it's only virtual?

Also everything in games is made as real as possible. Graphics, physics, environments, sounds, effects, and sometimes the way you can shoot people in the head - everything is as close to reality as technically possible. There's but one difference to reality: it is not real. But seriously, there are enough people who cannot even differ between the actor as person and the role he's playing.

But again, I'm NOT for banning violent content, porn or Bob Ross. I'm not pro censoring anything at all. All I want is that *YOU* have to switch it on, instead of that *I* have to switch it off.

Quote:
Parental incompetence is hardly a reason to take people's rights away save when that incompetence poses actual danger to their children - and there is no reason to believe that there is such a danger involved in this case.
Parental incompetence? Danger to their children? - Peoples laziness to show responsibility, and to enhance society, to respect or even support those who take responsibility cannot be a reason to be forced to tolerate or accept those people's ignorance and arrogance.


I don't think banning or censoring something would solve the problem, nor do I think that violent media themselves cause those things in a direct manner, it's always the sum of several circumstances. The poor punk who decides to shoot the idiot who bullied him every day in school can't be blamed alone, nor can the games he played. Mainly the bully is to blame for being an ******* and showing asocial behaviour, and of course those who supported him, laughed or looked away. This is not the punk's parents incompetence, or a proof how bad violent games are. This is proof how poor, selfcentered and unsocial our society is.

What I think is a main reason, and often a big factor for such things is the lack of good role models and "better" examples that are more "powerful" and more valuable lessons than violent media possibly are. also, this common "this is not my problem" or "I don't care" attitude. Of course, it's much easier not to care, and in fact it may not be your problem. Until that exact moment where it is your daughter which's been raped and killed on a school toilet. Or when it is you looking down the barrel of a gun. Yes, all blame to the parents.


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