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Old 03-22-2007, 11:30 AM   #81
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since Staff and Dual have the least amount of DP damage than the Single Styles and their swinging distance is also shorter, does that mean that they're more of a defensive style?
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:19 PM   #82
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It's difficult to say since the animations for the styles are configured for a video game vs realism.


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Old 03-26-2007, 06:18 AM   #83
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Blue: 12 DP damage and a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times.
What does "a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times." mean?

What's 'Parry Damage'?
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:05 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2000
What does "a multiplier for reducing parry damage by 25% to yourself up to 3 times." mean?

What's 'Parry Damage'?
If you parry 3 times in a row, the damage you get will be lowered by 25%
Parry damage is the damage you receive when you parry an attack (which is lower than a regular block).

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Old 03-26-2007, 01:05 PM   #85
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oh....so that's what it is.....thanks.

BTW. How about setting the Mishap damage of Makashi attacks to atleast half of the Mishap damage you get when you are parried?

This isn't really much of a suggestion but I just thought you guys should know anyway:

IMO, the blade sticks out too far when using Makashi's stance so it's easy to get hit even you're at a far distance from your opponent. The stance also makes it abit awkward to properly deliver parries when compared to other styles. I've also noticed that when using Soresu's stance, the increase in accuracy of parry-blocks is quite noticeable. Since both Soresu and Makashi are styles that are very dependent on good Parry-blocking, I suggest that the stance of Makashi should be changed to something closely based on Soresu's stance.

It should probably be something like this since Makashi is based on fencing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...d_surfaces.jpg
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:45 PM   #86
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BTW. How about setting the Mishap damage of Makashi attacks to atleast half of the Mishap damage you get when you are parried?
Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.

The parrying system works the same for all stances. The only difference is probably going to be where your saber is more likely to collide with the attacker's saber if you're both swinging your sabers.


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Old 03-26-2007, 03:51 PM   #87
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Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.
I had a few runs with Count Dooku (AKA Makashi Freak) and see its effect by letting myself get hit a few times. I guess an increase by another point should be adequate enough for the style to have abit more noticeable effect.

Quote:
The parrying system works the same for all stances. The only difference is probably going to be where your saber is more likely to collide with the attacker's saber if you're both swinging your sabers.
Actually, I'm more afraid of getting hit constantly when I'm NOT swinging my saber while using Makashi.

Anyway, I'll settle with using a cool technique(or exploit if wanna call it that) I found for the time being. It increases your probability of a succesful parry from roughly 25% to 75%. I mostly play against TAB bots though so I don't know if this'll work with humans as well and since TAB bots are such AF whores, I also don't know if this gimmick will also work with normal swings.

I've also found the joys of using sentry droids LOL. Too bad about the Blaster Deflect Crash Bug though.

BTW. How come TAB bots never choose anything else other than sabers and melee?

I'm also curious. Were the Anakin, Obiwan, and Dooku models included with the OJP mod? I'm just wondering since Obiwan loves using Soresu, Anakin with Djem So, and Dooku with Makashi.
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Old 03-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #88
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To answer your last question: nope
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Old 03-26-2007, 09:14 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Right now, I think it's just set to be 1 MP which means that your opponent would max out their MP in 15 hits.
.
Actually if its based on my code, its 2 MP. 1 wasnt enough to make any difference since parrying reduces it by 3. I thought about making it do 3 as well, but that would mean a parry for every hit woul dbe needed on top of what ever you got parried for.

And I still miss my faster fp gain for Juyo it added strategy (and transparency) to FP control and I had alot of fun using a cart wheel and Ariel based yoda aturu style with it... even though it usually got me killed LOL

Heck, it would be nice just to get these different characteristics on the skill menu to be bought for different styles. It might be another fun exercise for the talents of DarthDie.


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Old 03-26-2007, 11:18 PM   #90
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um.....actually, even with 2 MP, hacking away at your opponent will most probably kill him first before you could ever manage to disarm him and that's from a style with only 2 DP damage more than soresu.

Quote:
And I still miss my faster fp gain for Juyo it added strategy (and transparency) to FP control and I had alot of fun using a cart wheel and Ariel based yoda aturu style with it... even though it usually got me killed LOL
Juyo doesn't have fast FP gain anymore? LOL no wonder I couldn't find any difference in the FP regen. Why'd you remove it?

Quote:
Heck, it would be nice just to get these different characteristics on the skill menu to be bought for different styles. It might be another fun exercise for the talents of DarthDie.
hehe. Better yet, let's think KOTORII LOL. buuuut...I guess that thing's too RPGish to be applicable to JKA.

Right now, I'm just dying to see that Blaster Deflect Crash bug fixed.
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:51 PM   #91
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Juyo doesn't have fast FP gain anymore? LOL no wonder I couldn't find any difference in the FP regen. Why'd you remove it?
I don't think it's realistic. A particular style isn't going to make you recover from fatigue any faster than normal. If you're trying to simulate a less fatiguing style, it should be with reductions to the FP cost of the moves instead. IMO.


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Old 03-27-2007, 03:23 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2000
Right now, I'm just dying to see that Blaster Deflect Crash bug fixed.
Its fixed in the new beta as far as I can tell. I havent had any problems. The new beta as all my changes except for: The DP drain for running gunners (yes the most loved one ), Juyo fp regen, and the 75% DP requirement for force power (to help non absorb gunners). There are probably a few more things, and bug fixes but thats all I can remember from my code.


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Old 03-27-2007, 06:28 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Its fixed in the new beta as far as I can tell. I havent had any problems. The new beta as all my changes except for: The DP drain for running gunners (yes the most loved one ), Juyo fp regen, and the 75% DP requirement for force power (to help non absorb gunners). There are probably a few more things, and bug fixes but thats all I can remember from my code.
I was thinking about giving Juyo a perk that is more akin to it's volatile and random nature, more FP regen sounds and feels more like a Djem-So thing, I think.

Maybe give Juyo a 20% chance to do double MISHAP* damage if (thus) and (thus) perequisites are met?

Edit: cough, ahem

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Old 03-27-2007, 02:45 PM   #94
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mmm, but would feel right to the defender? We already have a situation where "lightning" Mishap increases frustrate people.


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Old 03-27-2007, 02:47 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by razorace
mmm, but would feel right to the defender? We already have a situation where "lightning" Mishap increases frustrate people.
It wouldn't be easy to do ofcourse.. meh, we'll see.

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Old 03-27-2007, 03:31 PM   #96
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Jon and I were fighting a lot yesterday and we kept on running out of FP the first run around before we gambled on whether the other person was out of FP the second time around. He suggested that a way to solve this problem may be to give back 2 FP or so for a successful parry; this would simulate someone recovering their strength by being on passive defense instead of swinging and using up one's strength. That way duels between people with high DP won't be as frustrating.

About saber style perks...

I like Soresu, Shii-cho and Makashi as they are now, although I agree that increasing the MP damage on Makashi would make it stand out more. As it is, using Makashi can really drain your FP, which is not so good for a style only slightly stronger than Soresu. To make it shine that MP damage needs to be more apparent.

Djem-So's perk of draining DP should be given over to Juyo. Djem-So already deals the highest DP damage of 17, and giving it an extra 10% would mean that an attack fake-spamming duelist can really give out some hurting. Draining DP seems more of a characteristic of the unpredictable Juyo style anyway.

Because Djem-So is more of a brute strength style, it should be pretty tiring to defend against. To simulate this, the perk for Djem-So should be to cause minor FP damage via unparried swing or successful attack fake. Now if parrying helps you regain some FP, then that would be the strategy to counter against this perk.


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Old 03-27-2007, 04:06 PM   #97
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Sounds okay I guess, but I don't necessarily agree on the new Djem-So/Juyo perks. Juyo should have something very passive and random that creeps up on you whenever you lose your concentration for just a split second, Djem-So should be sheer strength and endurance made manifest. As I said, there's tiem for that, we'll see.

2 things that I want to bring into this conversation:
-Limiting people to certain styles
o: Because it's more realistic and fun if people can choose their own flavour, and only their own flavour.

-Making new graphic icons for the different styles and noting their pros and cons a la KOTOR2
o: Immersive, symbolic pride of your style, noob friendly

Opinions plox

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Old 03-27-2007, 04:45 PM   #98
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I'd like to have the styles be individually selectable but it's going to be a bit technical to impliment. Especially if we want to count the dual/staff sabers as a different styles to purchase.

Make a bug ticket for this issue if it doesn't exist yet.


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Old 03-28-2007, 12:14 AM   #99
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As it is, using Makashi can really drain your FP, which is not so good for a style only slightly stronger than Soresu.
i dunno about that since I've never once lost alot of FP when using Makashi.

Quote:
Djem-So's perk of draining DP should be given over to Juyo. Djem-So already deals the highest DP damage of 17, and giving it an extra 10% would mean that an attack fake-spamming duelist can really give out some hurting. Draining DP seems more of a characteristic of the unpredictable Juyo style anyway.
Let's see:
Djem So = Strength
Juyo = Aggressiveness

If Juyo is any similar to Vaapad then I would have to agree on moving the +10% DP damage to it.

Also, in the EPIII novel, Dooku lost stamina while defending against Anakin's Djem So attacks so I have to agree on replacing Djem So's effect to FP dramage from an unparried Attack Fake.

Quote:
-Limiting people to certain styles
o: Because it's more realistic and fun if people can choose their own flavour, and only their own flavour.
Make the limit into 2 styles since most Jedi are fluent at 2-3 styles. Make Shii Cho the default stance that all Jedi should have (being the most basic and all) and make the other two stances to be the once for the player to choose.

and to make the suggestion more in-depth:
Saber Offense Lv.1 = Player can use 1 style and that would only be Shii Cho (default Style)
Saber Offense Lv.2 = Player can use 2 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 2nd one.
Saber Offense Lv.3 = Player can use 3 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 3rd one.

To sum it all up, the player will be able to use Shii Cho at Lv1 then 2 more styles at Lv2 and Lv3 which he/she would be able to choose when he/she reaches Lv2 and Lv3.

And to make it MORE in-depth: (just something to spice things up)

Since there are Jedi who are 'Masters' of certain styles, this is my suggestion. When player reaches Lv3, he/she can choose to upgrade either Shii Cho or his/her Lv2 style. It's not gonna be something big. Just simple upgrades like:

+1 DP damage
+1 DP Defense (attacker gets -1 DP damage)(also works with normal blocks)
+1 FP regen
+1 Mishap damage (only when the attack isn't parried)

So if say a Makashi user upgrades the style with +1 Mishap damage, then that style will deal 3 Mishap damage to the opponent instead of 2. And if Soresu is upgraded with +1 DP defense, well let's just say that he/she will be harder to get killed.

Quote:
-Making new graphic icons for the different styles and noting their pros and cons a la KOTOR2
o: Immersive, symbolic pride of your style, noob friendly
This one I agree.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:54 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Thanks for working on that, mantis. Let us know if you get a fully functional version with the crash.c code working in it.
Okay, Hockney.
First, I copied and overwrote your source to OJP-original source (the latest revision at that time was rev334 which includes g_crash.c).
And changed following your source (I changed nothing in g_crash.c),
Quote:
"g_local.h"
///* Taken out by JRHockney because he couldn't get g_crash.c to complie
//[CrashLog]
// forty - stack traces - g_crash.c
void EnableCoreDumps(void);
void DisableCoreDumps(void);
void EnableStackTrace(void);
void DisableStackTrace(void);

//[/CrashLog]

"g_main.c"
//[CrashLog]
//EnableStackTrace(); Taken out by JRHockney because he couldn't get g_crash.c to complie
EnableStackTrace();
//[/CrashLog]
Finally, I compiled your source successfully without error.
But that dedicated server is crashed with segmentation fault error.
https://opensvn.csie.org/traccgi/ojp/ticket/218

In addition, I cheked in latest SVN source rev370, but same crash error.
I can't wait bug fix, Razor.


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Old 03-28-2007, 07:32 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2000
i dunno about that since I've never once lost alot of FP when using Makashi.


Let's see:
Djem So = Strength
Juyo = Aggressiveness

If Juyo is any similar to Vaapad then I would have to agree on moving the +10% DP damage to it.

Also, in the EPIII novel, Dooku lost stamina while defending against Anakin's Djem So attacks so I have to agree on replacing Djem So's effect to FP dramage from an unparried Attack Fake.


Make the limit into 2 styles since most Jedi are fluent at 2-3 styles. Make Shii Cho the default stance that all Jedi should have (being the most basic and all) and make the other two stances to be the once for the player to choose.

and to make the suggestion more in-depth:
Saber Offense Lv.1 = Player can use 1 style and that would only be Shii Cho (default Style)
Saber Offense Lv.2 = Player can use 2 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 2nd one.
Saber Offense Lv.3 = Player can use 3 styles. He/She can choose which style would be the 3rd one.

To sum it all up, the player will be able to use Shii Cho at Lv1 then 2 more styles at Lv2 and Lv3 which he/she would be able to choose when he/she reaches Lv2 and Lv3.

And to make it MORE in-depth: (just something to spice things up)

Since there are Jedi who are 'Masters' of certain styles, this is my suggestion. When player reaches Lv3, he/she can choose to upgrade either Shii Cho or his/her Lv2 style. It's not gonna be something big. Just simple upgrades like:

+1 DP damage
+1 DP Defense (attacker gets -1 DP damage)(also works with normal blocks)
+1 FP regen
+1 Mishap damage (only when the attack isn't parried)

So if say a Makashi user upgrades the style with +1 Mishap damage, then that style will deal 3 Mishap damage to the opponent instead of 2. And if Soresu is upgraded with +1 DP defense, well let's just say that he/she will be harder to get killed.


This one I agree.
Vaapad/Juyo is not aggressiveness, Ataru is aggressiveness..
Juyo is ferocity, it takes the power of Djem-So and the speed of Ataru only to create it's very own style, and then an element of randomness is added.

It's hard to fight against it for the same reason you, as a master swordsman(hypothetical), will have difficulty fighting and will probably lose to a person that knows nothing of swordfighting only because his movement will be very unpredictable and volatile since he does not follow your routine.

Yay mantis got is compizzled!111

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Old 03-28-2007, 08:36 AM   #102
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I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.

I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.

Although this FP damage should be big enough or it'll end up being almost as unnoticable as Makashi's.

I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....


BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.

Last edited by mark2000; 03-28-2007 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 03-28-2007, 09:51 AM   #103
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I stand corrected but as of right now, there's nothing about Juyo that makes it any confusing.
lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob

on more serious note i cant see too much usefulness in it on paper.
djem so looks so much better. i guess we will have to read descriptions of this saber form a few times and find what we can actually implement into game
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Old 03-28-2007, 10:22 AM   #104
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lies. i got confused when using it, because swings looked pretty random and not easy to control. atleast thats how it looks to ojp noob
are you sure? They look as plain as Shii Cho to me(not to mention it's also as easy to parry).
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:36 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Mantis01
In addition, I cheked in latest SVN source rev370, but same crash error.
I can't wait bug fix, Razor.
I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?


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Old 03-28-2007, 02:58 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by mark2000
I'm still thinking its effect should be something more like double hits but that isn't really any different from giving additional DP damage from succesful AFs so I still believe that Djem So's effect should be transfered to Juyo and give Djem So FP damage instead.
What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?

Quote:
I just realized this but adding DP damage to Juyo doesn't really make it confusing though....I think it's effect should be something more random. How about a 25% chance of Slowbounce from an unparried AF instead? That alone should make it useful enough............I think....
Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).

Quote:
BTW. Something should seriously be done about Soresu's animations. If by saying "hacksaw", you guys were talking about soresu's continuous short left right swings, then that's the thing making it annoying right now. Because of it, you'll look like you're getting multiple hits from a saber in front of you that's not even swinging at all.
I've done a lot of code to make sure that no fair comboing shouldn't occur. If the swings are unfair beyond that, it really should be fixed thru speeding up/down the swing and windup animations.


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Old 03-28-2007, 11:27 PM   #107
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Attack fakes already cause slowbounces if they go into a saberlock (which always happens if the players are facing each other and don't parry).
oh...I forgot about that. Well, unless someone gives Juyo a useful effect that can make it 'unpredictable' then it might as well be removed from the styles although having just 4 styles would be such a bummer.

Quote:
What would the disadvantage be to Djem So to offset the FP damage?
How about a decrease in Mishap Recovery Time? Maybe that'll keep people from spamming it too much.

Anyway, if Juyo is already beyond saving, maybe you should just replace it with Ataru. Give Ataru the same DP damage as Juyo. It's effect would be something like 'Increased DP damage during Aerial Strikes' (the cartwheels and such) since Ataru loves acrobatics.
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:45 AM   #108
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One idea to prevent the spamming Djem So's FP damage would be to limit the the damage bonus to only over-shoulder or overhead swings, which people usually parry. In the Rise of Darth Vader novel, Vader used Djem So to beat some poor Jedi into submission with overhead strikes. According to what we see in the movies and the description on Wookieepedia, Djem So's power uses a lot of powerful over the shoulder swings (like a bat) to press the assault. Since people can usually parry the overhead swings, that could be the disadvantage of the perk. This would result in a Djem So user having to be more strategic to fully take advantage of the style, because if they can do it skillfully, they can quickly tire out their opponents with a bunch of unsuspecting overhead swings that they craftily set up.

Juyo can be confusing if we can somehow vary the animation speed of different strikes to make it more unpredictable. If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage. OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake (Mace was kind of doing this in the last segment of his duel with Sidious), and when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.

Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents. Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.


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Old 03-29-2007, 03:58 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Tanqexe

OR, change the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing so that whereas other styles are committed to a swing at a certain point, a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake
This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.

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Old 03-29-2007, 04:25 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by razorace
I'm still working on getting the MeatGrinder to work. *shakes fist* Based on my qconsole.log output. It looks like there's a problem with the ROFF system and this is causing a system crash at game shutdown.

Are you getting something like a "Can't load ROFF file (null)" error?
The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

I'm interested in your linux environment.
Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?


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Old 03-29-2007, 05:04 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Maxstate
This is something I've thought about too but we would have to give the user a lot more control over his actions for two reasons: 1: Two fake windups take more time to execute and can be canceled with a quick hit, 2: You could do 2 fake windups on accident.
I don't mind that Juyo will require a lot more control on the part of the user. It's supposed to be a pretty wild style, and if used correctly it can be pretty devastating. Increasing the threshold for when a fake becomes a swing and also allowing for a secondary directional change will give even more control to the player. Let's say that in the case of someone attempting a quick hit to cancel out the execution, we can allow the Juyo duelist a small window of time to change the direction of the strike, and instead of forcing the Juyo duelist to return to ready stance or block, he can initiate a combo then and there.

(It's late for me and I have no idea if this is making any sense at all)


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Old 03-29-2007, 11:42 AM   #112
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If possible, perhaps make it so that if someone delivers a combo of 3 unparried hits, the third hit will cause a +10% DP damage.
That's Djem So's effect already.

Quote:
a Juyo attack fake will allow two changes in direction during an attack fake
Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)

Quote:
when it lands unparried it will cause the opponent to stumble or be unable to parry for a few seconds, forcing them to have to block instead.
I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:
25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.

Quote:
Or it can be something along those lines. Juyo isn't beyond saving, I just think that people don't know how to use Juyo's swings effectively to confuse opponents.
Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.

Quote:
Its swings are supposed to be wide and open, almost like you can expect it to hit somewhere, but at the last moment it ends up hitting you somewhere else. If we can facilitate that somehow as a perk then we're good to go.
I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".

~~~~~

BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:04 PM   #113
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That's Djem So's effect already.
Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.


Quote:
Any style can let you continuously change your AF swing direction as many as you want.

(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)
Not true. You only change one direction before you're committed to making a swing in another direction. I'm talking about having it, for example, look like you're going to do an overhead, which quickly turns to a low left but just as quickly moves up into a top left or right, fast enough to catch someone unsuspecting off guard because they think you're just doing a normal attack fake but slow enough for someone with good reaction time to hit you. The key is to have the use of Juyo to be difficult but very rewarding to pull off. Movie realism wise, there's a reason why not many people use Form VII - it takes a lot of control to use well.


Quote:
I think you might be on to something there regarding the "unable to parry" part.

Here's a suggestion for the effect based on that idea:
25% chance of inflicting CONFUSED status to the opponent after dealing an unparried AF.

CONFUSED = Unable to parry for 5 seconds

The logic is that if the opponent gets confused, he'll lose his rythm and won't be in the condition to be able to parry your attacks.
If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.

Quote:
Let's not talk about "skill" for now because if you strip away all the special effects of all the styles then Juyo will be no different from all the other styles. The only thing that'll set them apart then would just be their animations and that's just not enough to be considered as Juyo's specialty.
The skill of knowing how to take full advantage of different styles' attributes helps you win in a duel. I know what you're saying, that Juyo's specialty should not be in its animation, but that's not what I'm saying to begin with. I'm saying that for more normal Juyo attacks, if a person doesn't know how to take advantage of the different types of swings in the Juyo animation set to begin with then of course they can't really confuse and catch an opponent off-balance.

The different animations produce different dynamics and strategies. Shii-cho may look pretty basic but if you underestimate it it can land more blows than you can react to parry - play with Jon a couple times and you'll know. The swings of Makashi can look like they're going in one direction but they're really going in another - almost like a feint; Soresu's swings are minimalistic and relatively slow, and you can hide some of your different directions of attacks or fakes that way, compared to other styles. Sure if you're playing against a bot who doesn't pay attention to these facts, it won't make a difference, but against a player who does know the difference, you can be in for a few surprises.


Quote:
I like where you're heading there but what you are suggesting should then be an attack or animation that no other style has and it should also be "worthy" to be considered a special effect or else people will just say "that's just part of Juyo's attack animations. Nothing special".
Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.

Quote:

BTW. If the "FP damage" thing for Djem So just won't cut it, how about this:

25% chance of inflicting +10% DP damage

Giving it 17 DP damage can already consider it a 'powerful style' and adding more power to it through consecutive hitting would just be too much so instead, we'll just give it an effect that happens randomly (call it a "Critical Strike" if you will) so even if you managed to AF spam your opponent, you still won't be able to exploit the effect because it only happens at random.

This effect will only happen with a probability of 1 out of 4.
Random effects in combat are extremely annoying. I'm sure you've seen the lightning mishap bug happen a few times by now.


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Old 03-29-2007, 01:58 PM   #114
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Yeah no luck shots please!
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:12 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis01
The "ROFF" error is not found in error log.

I'm interested in your linux environment.
Let me know your Linux distribution(+version), and kernel version ?
buh, I don't know. I'm just using EscapedTurkey.com's servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2000
(I managed to do a useless continuous AF swing change 3 times when I was using Makashi. I just ended up getting hit by my opponent.)
The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.


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Old 03-29-2007, 08:10 PM   #116
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Djem So's current effect is that you attack fake to get that 10% DP drain. Very spammable especially with the low attack fakes. I'm talking about 3-hit combos such that at the third hit there will be a damage bonus. Different mechanic to achieve the effect and makes it less spammable.
Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.

Quote:
If something's going to hit, it might as well be assured a sure shot to have an effect. Having someone pull off a "special" attack and it being unreliable to do anything remarkable just isn't that rewarding. I don't like the notion of having any kind of percentage chance of status ailment. Like razorace, I want to remove any kind of "lucky shot" out of the system.

Inability to parry for 5 seconds is too fatal in a heated saber duel. Decreasing the window to 2 or 3 seconds would suffice.
One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.

Quote:
The old code used to allow unlimited AF changes, but the more recent code (say, the last 6 months) is only supposed to allow one AF before the actual attack swing. I made this change for simplicity but we could probably change that up a bit.
well that explains alot of things. Thanks for the info.

Quote:
Again I think you misunderstand what I am saying. Giving the user more control of when a fake actually becomes a committed swing without having to return to ready stance doesn't really have to do with Juyo's animations. It's just another perk, except that the mechanics of how it's done gives a Juyo duelist a greater advantage of control in faking someone out before unleashing the hurt - and then rewarding a subsequent hit with a damage bonus or status ailment.

Basically, I want to make the aspect of the fake (the part of the swing before you're committed to an attack) more useful in misdirection for Juyo, and then give a reward for a successful attack after the misdirection. The greater degree of control of when a a fake becomes an attack is both an advantage and a disadvantage for the style in that not so many people can skillfully pull off misdirections and cash in on them, but if they do they will be rewarded.
Since razor already cleared things up to me about the AF faking, then this type of AF, as long as it's unique to Juyo, should be fine by me.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:12 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by mark2000
Even so, in the end, the effect is still the same. +10% DP damage is already Djem So's department right now so let's not use that one for uniqueness' sake.
I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.


Quote:
One thing with controlled shots is that, one way or another, they'll eventually become spammable. If you have a plan on avoiding that then be my guest.

I might have to agree on the Confusion time though. 2-3 seconds should be enough.
If you have a good enough reaction time to know when to make the hit when it counts without someone being able to defend against it in time, then that's a show of skill. As I said, make the move hard to pull off (since it requires some timing so that someone with great reaction time can be fast enough or on guard enough to parry it), but give the successful hit a sure-shot bonus to reward the player for his good execution. Assigning a percentage chance of an effect happening is, again, very frustrating for both parties and is not a good way to reduce spammability. If it's hard to pull off, then it will less likely to be spammed to great effect.

Thinking about it some more, the parrying paralysis effect would be a better perk for Juyo because in the time that it takes to launch the combo or two-direction attack fake, the same person could have gotten one more hit in which would weigh in with more DP damage than a couple hits plus a bonus on the last hit. Parrying paralysis would be more significant and worth the trouble.


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Old 03-30-2007, 06:15 AM   #118
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I think you got things confused. I said that this kind of perk can be used for Juyo if we switch Djem So to FP drain from overhead and over-shoulder attack fakes. Naturally it would be redundant for both Djem So and Juyo to deal the same kind of effect.
OH! LOL. I forgot you've already mentioned about Djem So's FP damage. My bad.

Quote:
make the move hard to pull off
and that 'move' would be something like......the Double Fake you mentioned earlier correct? I guess anyone who loves spamming the normal swing could easily break a Double Fake but I feel like the move should be something even harder to do.

BTW. Since AF's can also register a hit even though they don't instantly go into a saberlock, do you think that the Status effect from the Double Fake should register from both a regular hit and after a saberlock? Personally, I don't think that the effect should happen after a saberlock has finished since those things are mostly about strength so it's hardly logical that someone will get confused after a saberlock has finished since there's really nothing "confusing" or random about it.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:01 AM   #119
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Well.. is it true that Power attacks reset the mishap bar? How about when using Juyo it stays at it's current position regardless of what kind of attack it is. (Unless it's a riposte or something ofcourse)

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Old 04-05-2007, 05:37 AM   #120
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That way Juyo guys can power attack their opponent and make them keep the same mishap level even when PA'd.

Crap edit != post

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