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Old 01-21-2007, 08:19 AM   #1
The Architect
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PC of KotOR III's force connection?

Should the PC of KotOR III be someone who has used the force prior to the beginning of the game and is weak at the start for plot reasons like Revan in KotOR and the Exile in TSL were or not? In other words, should the PC of KotOR III be someone who has to regain their formerly strong connection to the force, like Revan and the Exile did?


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Old 01-21-2007, 08:57 AM   #2
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I honestly think it should be someone who never considered the force or the Jedi in his life. So im thinking some sort of shop keeper on a remote planet who gets sucked into the journey of his life. From that they have endless possibilities.


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Old 01-21-2007, 09:20 AM   #3
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I don't care. If it's good implemented, I like both possiblilities. It's just, in almost every RPG the PC is a former hero who had an amnesia or who had lost his/her powers in any way, so, I think this possibility could be a bit boring...


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Old 01-21-2007, 09:57 AM   #4
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it's difficult, because to me it would seem strange that three different people somehow lose their power, and eventually gain it back, becoming more powerful than before, more powerful than most other force users. once is good, 2 is forgiveable, but if it happened a third time it would feel... forced i guess. mind you, it would be difficult to have anither useable game mechanic suitable for the game KOTOR III is most likely going to be... i'm not sure. if they can think of some way to do the same thing in a new style, as they did with the Exile, then they should.
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Old 01-21-2007, 10:03 AM   #5
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Being the Sith'ra, or at least of True Sith blood might suffice as a good motivator, especially for a Non-Force Senstive who just discovered the Force. Hey, destiny and procpheries played a major motivation and reason for Anakain Skywalker to become a hero in the Star Wars series.

But yeah, I would like some explaination as long as it is good. Allows us to suspend disbelief.
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:19 PM   #6
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I don't really care, just as long as it makes sense.


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Old 01-21-2007, 01:41 PM   #7
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I would prefer a force sensitive who has never been trained like Luke Skywalker.


Not all those who wander are lost.-J.R.R. Tolkien

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Old 01-21-2007, 01:59 PM   #8
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well, Luke was sort of trained by Obi-wan, and there was probably a great deal of training outside the scenes in Ep. IV, though i see what you're saying. plus, having no training would make the choices between Light Side and Dark Side seem more feasable, if you see what i mean. anything could happen.
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Old 01-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbieZ
I honestly think it should be someone who never considered the force or the Jedi in his life. So im thinking some sort of shop keeper on a remote planet who gets sucked into the journey of his life. From that they have endless possibilities.
I totally agree. Of course it is necessary that he's force sensitive, but he could eventually just be a above average Jedi, not as powerful as Revan or the Exile (story-wise, I still want him and his party to benefit from the same character system of course).

Having again a Jedi that "lost" his knowledge would be a little.. uncreative.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:01 PM   #10
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Yeah I see no reason for making them a forgetful uber-jedi again. An average joe who learns throuhout is fine for me.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:09 PM   #11
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Okay (and I have addressed this point before), but let’s say:

a) KotOR III is a follow up of TSL where we actually see what happens to Revan, the Exile and co in this whole True Sith fiasco, so we fight the True Sith and all that crap. You get the point here, right? It means you’ll have to be powerful.

b) We start off as some nobody. Someone on some half assed, back water outer-rim world who has never been, and isn’t affiliated with any major faction like the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic or the Mandalorians at the start of the game. I don’t for instance like the idea of being forced to begin as some new padawan on Coruscant, that is not good from a role-playing perspective.

c) The PC of KotOR III has never used the force prior to the beginning of the game. In other words, he/she is new to the force at the start of KotOR III.

So how do you explain how the PC starts off as someone who’s new to the force at the start of the game and at the latter stages of the game is powerful? We agree that the PC of KotOR III has to be powerful, right? I’m not saying that he/she has to be as powerful as Yoda, Luke, Palpatine or Revan, but still, he/she has to be powerful.

How can you go from a new comer to a powerful hero/villain/whatever in a matter of weeks, months, a year or however long the story (from start to finish) of KotOR III spans across? Unless the PC of KotOR III is someone with a force connection that is even greater than Anakin’s (which is impossible) I don’t see how the devs could explain the PC’s rapid increase in power.

I don’t know about you, but I’d find it dodgy if someone whose only used the force for a few months or so could defeat any True Sith or whoever the big guns or major villains are in KotOR III.

We got a reason for Revan (powerful amnesic ex-Dark Lord strategist) and we got one for the Exile (exiled Jedi Knight wound in the force) so what’s it going to be for the PC of KotOR III?

Unless someone can come up with a great reason, personally I think that the PC has to be someone who once again, lost their powers, and regains them in KotOR III. I know it’s repetitive, but I think it’s a necessity. So discuss your ideas on this folks.

I do have one idea where the PC has used the force prior to the beginning of KotOR III, but instead of losing his/her powers, something else happened, which has made him/her weak at the start.

What if the PC of KotOR III was a Grey Jedi trained by Jolee Bindo on Kashyyyk during the Mandalorian Wars? Don’t ask how and why you were on Kashyyyk in the first place (there could be a good reason for that), but perhaps, when the JCW began, you left Kashyyyk and tried to protect your homeworld from the Sith, but they destroyed it.

The Sith captured you, but you escaped (whether someone helped you escape or not, I don’t know) and when the JCW ended and the threat of The Sith Lords cropped up, you went into hiding, so you’ve been out of action for a while. After the defeat of The Sith Lords, you pop up again. Crappy idea isn’t it? But, youse get the point anyway, right?


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Old 01-21-2007, 07:27 PM   #12
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Well, maybe you could start out as like a lowly-nobody on Coruscant, with no knowledge of the Force whatsoever. A flashback is seen with the player as a child, being bullied by other kids and then out of nowhere, Force Pushes them onto the environment around, killing them with the impact. The player then grows arrogant and starts getting onto dodgy deals and such, mostly with the Exchange, not knowing his power, thinking it's magic. One fateful mission leads the player onto some Jedi who disrupt the mission. They then "hire" you, wanting you to kill the crimelord. As you reach the room, you are suddenly knocked out cold. You then wake up on a cage with guards and the crimelord around you. Suddenly, you Force Push the cage's door, roll onto the ground, and Force Pushing everybody. You take off the gun/sword of one guard and start fighting one of the Crimelord's elite guard when you Force Push (yeah, i know, alot of Force Pushes xD) the ceiling over the elite guard. Your corner the crimelord, and blast/slash (depends on your starter class) a counter. You look at it, and then somehow absorb the electricity and fry the crimelord with an unbeknownst to you, Force Lightning.

I could continue this, but you probably are catching my drift and thinking this as lame.
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbieZ
I honestly think it should be someone who never considered the force or the Jedi in his life. So im thinking some sort of shop keeper on a remote planet who gets sucked into the journey of his life. From that they have endless possibilities.
Ahhh, i dont think that would work too well...the Exile was good and was able to fit into the TSL story well, but a new character!? again!? if they do that then Revan and the Exile will be mentioned as history.
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Old 01-21-2007, 08:30 PM   #14
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Well three people makes sense. Maybe they all have matching T-shirts and when you stand all three people in a line it shows a map to the lost city of the Sith then they find treasure blah blah, thank me i don't work at Lucasarts.


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Old 01-22-2007, 01:25 AM   #15
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Maybe the PC could be a Force Sensitive person who doesn't realise it and near the beginning, he is told by a Jedi he/she is Force Sensitive and get trained. This way, it wouldn't be someone who lost their connection to the Force and they had been Force Sensitive all their life, which wouldn't mean they'd become powerful over a day, since it seems both Revan and the Exile become really powerful.
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Old 01-22-2007, 07:21 AM   #16
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I think the problem with KotOR III is generally that there is a problem of avoiding hackneyed choices in the story, the plot, the characters etc.

No matter what you do, *someone* is going to accuse you of being hackneyed, stale and unoriginal.

If you have a new character who has no memory, but is a unique UB@R Force user, you're going to be pulling the same trick again.

If you reintroduce a previous character, you're going to be accused of alienating the new audience, and being unoriginal, cliched etc etc ad nauseam.

So it's tough.

There is a third choice, which is that you DO know what's going one. How does that work? One of your companions could be the one who has no idea what's going on. Suppose it's one of the Primaries, I mean like Carth/Bastila, Kreia/Atton etc..., you can pretty well guarantee they will ask you questions regularly. Particularly if you have similar backstory cues as in KotOR I...



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Old 01-22-2007, 10:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerbieZ
I honestly think it should be someone who never considered the force or the Jedi in his life. So im thinking some sort of shop keeper on a remote planet who gets sucked into the journey of his life. From that they have endless possibilities.
THe only thing with that is that the character needs to have at least some combat training for the start of the game...

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Old 01-22-2007, 12:15 PM   #18
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I don’t for instance like the idea of being forced to begin as some new padawan on Coruscant, that is not good from a role-playing perspective.

...

What if the PC of KotOR III was a Grey Jedi trained by Jolee Bindo on Kashyyyk during the Mandalorian Wars? Don’t ask how and why you were on Kashyyyk in the first place (there could be a good reason for that), but perhaps, when the JCW began, you left Kashyyyk and tried to protect your homeworld from the Sith, but they destroyed it.
Isn't that the same thing as being a member of the Jedi Academy, stuck on a planet (Corasuant) where you are not supposed to question?

Actually, to me, limitations and some background details are okay, as long as we can fill it in. For example, the Exile's background and Revan's background are predeterimined. But very important details are kept...secret.

Revan: Why did Revan want to save the Republic? Did Revan truly fall?

Exile: Why did Exile went off to war? Does the Exile regret his desicion at Malachor V?

I think having a nice background is conductive to roleplaying. Remember the main goal: You are playing a "role", and able to improv and embliessh on that role to have fun.
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Old 01-22-2007, 01:07 PM   #19
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THe only thing with that is that the character needs to have at least some combat training for the start of the game...
a mercenary working on some outer rim world? pirate? War veteran?
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Old 01-22-2007, 07:04 PM   #20
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^ A Mandalorian war veteran woould do nicely
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
There is a third choice, which is that you DO know what's going one. How does that work? One of your companions could be the one who has no idea what's going on. Suppose it's one of the Primaries, I mean like Carth/Bastila, Kreia/Atton etc..., you can pretty well guarantee they will ask you questions regularly. Particularly if you have similar backstory cues as in KotOR I...
This is a concept I would rather have than most out there. And also I would rather have your playable character start out as a force sensitive, who knows what's going on in the galaxy, and knows what his/her mission is.


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Old 01-23-2007, 07:53 AM   #22
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THe only thing with that is that the character needs to have at least some combat training for the start of the game...
I'd like to think he's beaten several young thieving rodians with a broomstick once or twice.


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Old 01-23-2007, 09:49 AM   #23
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Well then, he is more than ready.

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Old 01-23-2007, 08:11 PM   #24
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Jason Skywalker, yeah sorry. I don't see why you'd end up becoming powerful in a short amount of time with your idea.

Darth InSidious, what you said is true and is all well and good, but ah sorry, what does it have to do with my topic?

So Pottsie, you are basically saying that the PC has been training as a Jedi before the game begins? It is similar to my old idea where the PC starts off as a padawan on the verge of becoming a Jedi Knight. I guess I wouldn’t mind this idea if the PC was born on Coruscant, otherwise, it just feels too forced and biased towards the LS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Isn't that the same thing as being a member of the Jedi Academy, stuck on a planet (Corasuant) where you are not supposed to question?
Hence the reason why I said crappy idea, isn’t it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Actually, to me, limitations and some background details are okay, as long as we can fill it in. For example, the Exile's background and Revan's background are predeterimined. But very important details are kept...secret.

Revan: Why did Revan want to save the Republic? Did Revan truly fall?

Exile: Why did Exile went off to war? Does the Exile regret his desicion at Malachor V?

I think having a nice background is conductive to roleplaying. Remember the main goal: You are playing a "role", and able to improv and embliessh on that role to have fun.
As interesting as Revan and the Exile’s back stories were, I don’t want the PC of KotOR III to have a pre-determined background. It’s not good from a role-playing perspective, as it’s forced.

I don’t want the PC of KotOR III to have been affiliated with the Jedi, the Sith or the Republic before the game starts, hence another forced, pre-determined background, nor do I want to be forced to be affiliated with a major faction like the Republic or the Jedi at the start of KotOR III.

If I am forced to begin as a padawan on Coruscant in KotOR III, then I want to know why I’m there in the first place. Not all of us are goody-goody Jedi/Republic ass kissers or are LS’ders. It’s too biased. No character of mine would join the Jedi willingly, so why would my character start off as a padawan on Coruscant for?

I’d rather the PC of KotOR III’s background not be addressed at all. Just keep it a fresh, plain background. No Mandalorian War hero, amnesic ex-Dark Lord or exiled Jedi Knight wound in the force.

Just simple stuff. The PC of KotOR III would know his/her background, so there would be no reason for him/her to ask about it. I don’t mind if someone (whether it be a party member or not) asks you about your background in KotOR III, but I don’t want it to end up being: “I was a Jedi Knight who fought in the Mandalorian Wars” or something like that.

I’d like to make up my own background (if it’s necessary, depending on whether anyone asks you about your background or not). I’d rather one of your party members be someone with the great destiny, massive background and ultra talent.

Post 11# of mine in this thread sums up why it's going to be difficult for the devs to incorporate a third PC into KotOR III. A new PC is a must of course, but it will be hard for the devs to do if you ask me.


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Old 01-23-2007, 08:30 PM   #25
SilentScope001
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As interesting as Revan and the Exile’s back stories were, I don’t want the PC of KotOR III to have a pre-determined background. It’s not good from a role-playing perspective, as it’s forced.
Guess we got differnet definitions of Role-Playing.

For you, role playing involves the creating of a new character, giving it personality and such. Then, you are thrown into the world on a path by the DM, regardless of the personality of that character. A generic campagin really.

For me...Role Playing means that you are given a character and then allowed to do whatever you want with it. You are thrown into the world on a path by the DM, tailored to the character's history. You decide what you want to do.

Revan and Exile were, to me, pre-generated Characters. The DMs (Bioware and Obsidian) handed you the character sheets. It is up to you to then deterimine how you take your character.

Sure, you are FORCED to take that character sheet, but remember that the KOTOR series still allow you much freedom. You are not allowed, for example, to side with the DS in most other star wars games. And your siding with the DS in those Star Wars Games usually is declared not cannon. Instead, in the KOTOR series, your actions has a profound effect on the future of the galaxy.

Quote:
If I am forced to begin as a padawan on Coruscant in KotOR III, then I want to know why I’m there in the first place. Not all of us are goody-goody Jedi/Republic ass kissers or are LS’ders. It’s too biased. No character of mine would join the Jedi willingly, so why would my character start off as a padawan on Coruscant for?
I myself love Dark Sided characters, and for me, will usually declare them to be canon. I also do dislike being forced to join the Jedi Order in K1, so I sympathize with your point. However, you answered your own question. Your chacter of yours did not join the Jedi willingly...your character joined it unwillingly.

They were possibly captured by the Jedi Order, maybe as a child. Prehaps you were one of those Force Senstives that was uprooted by Vaklu's troopers in Onderon. Obivously, you hate the Jedi, and serving them...that was the biggest insult. At least the good news is that you now have the Force, and you can finally wreck your vengance against the Jedi Order.

Quote:
I’d like to make up my own background (if it’s necessary, depending on whether anyone asks you about your background or not). I’d rather one of your party members be someone with the great destiny, massive background and ultra talent.
Isn't THAT nonconductive to RolePlaying as well? You have one NPC who is the one with great destiny, massive background, ultra talent. That NPC would do whatever he so pleases, and YOU cannot stop him. Unless you implement some sort of "Infulence" that you have on the NPC, this NPC can do whatever he/she wants, and will destroy the True Sith Order. He will reward rewards, while you receive...nothing. The story is focused on the NPC...and not on you.

You will be overshadowed by an NPC, and you will not feel as important. Ego-stroking is needed for players to encourge them to play...otherwise, why would they play?
--
As I say, I sympathize with your points, but I do think a PC needs some sort of force connection and background information. Though, actually...the background may not be needed, all that is truly required is the Force Connection..and I think that could be sasitifed with being called True Sith blood, being a relative of Revan, or being the Promised One.

Though, to be fair, without a background, all you get is a GENERIC campagin. That might be...boring. I would prefer "fax freedom" and an pre-generated character sheet (of someone other than Revan and Exile) and a very gerat storyline tailored to that Character Sheet over having full freedom over your character's history...and a very boring storyline to go along with it.

Quote:
Post 11# of mine in this thread sums up why it's going to be difficult for the devs to incorporate a third PC into KotOR III. A new PC is a must of course, but it will be hard for the devs to do if you ask me.
That's why they get paid for doing this sort of work.

EDIT:
Quote:
I think the problem with KotOR III is generally that there is a problem of avoiding hackneyed choices in the story, the plot, the characters etc.

No matter what you do, *someone* is going to accuse you of being hackneyed, stale and unoriginal.
I'm going to have to concur with this. True Sith blood is the best hope, but even then, it's still hackneyed, stale and unoriginal.

Still, trying to think of something...

(You are sent to destroy the True Sith, and you realize that you are the only one to destroy the True Sith because...[INSERT SOMETHING INTERESTING, NON-HACKNEYED, NON-STALE AND TOTALLY ORIGINAL].)

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Old 01-23-2007, 09:07 PM   #26
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Well I have to agree with all of what you’ve said there SilentScope001. Good job.

Perhaps starting off as a padawan on Coruscant who is on the verge of becoming a Jedi Knight isn’t such a bad idea. I did use it in my old, half-complete K3 fan fic after all. Like you said, you could be sent to destroy the True Sith (and you know you’re the only one who can) because…? That’s where the devs come in.


"Here is my final point. About drugs, about alcohol, about pornography and smoking and everything else. What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I ****, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?"

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Old 01-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #27
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They could just have you start as a real sucky Jedi.


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Old 01-24-2007, 02:53 AM   #28
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No Jedi is sucky...all with the force have power.
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Salzella
well, Luke was sort of trained by Obi-wan, and there was probably a great deal of training outside the scenes in Ep. IV, though i see what you're saying. plus, having no training would make the choices between Light Side and Dark Side seem more feasable, if you see what i mean. anything could happen.
When I was thinking of Luke. I was think of him before he meet either Obi-wan or Yoda. Something would happen to PC that would start the PC on their way to becoming a Jedi or Sith.


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Old 01-24-2007, 12:01 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Arátoeldar
When I was thinking of Luke. I was think of him before he meet either Obi-wan or Yoda. Something would happen to PC that would start the PC on their way to becoming a Jedi or Sith.
Adopted family being burnt to death at a homestead on Tatooine?
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:03 PM   #31
Arátoeldar
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Originally Posted by Salzella
Adopted family being burnt to death at a homestead on Tatooine?
Exactly.


Not all those who wander are lost.-J.R.R. Tolkien

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it but by it I see everything else - C.S. Lewis
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Old 01-24-2007, 01:45 PM   #32
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I think that the third should have a break in the story. You start as a very young (14-15) person at the beginning of the mandalorian wars. You play through the first few missions and start your path, take part in some of the battles. The game is abruptly halted as your semi-force user is incapacitated, or flees. (I don't know if you should have a partyh at this point yet, maybe a temporary party). You are then shown that your PC has taken refuge on a backwater planet, where he/she trains away from both jedi/sith, and grows in force. When the game picks back up, you now control your character (older, say 25-30). You choose what specialty (jedi weapon master, sith lord, whatever), and a few new force powers. Keep in mind that in the actual game, you would only grow one level during this time. You are found by a member of the new jedi council (or a sith, depending on the jedi class you chose) From there, you continue your adventure.

Not the greatest, but something along those lines would explain how your PC jumped in power, and would also give players a taste of both a prequal and a finish to the three games.
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:12 PM   #33
SilentScope001
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Mister Chief's idea do have some merit. Start off at the Mandalorian Wars after choosing your Starting Class, battle through it, suffer something quite terrible, and then...you are knocked unconsisus. Then, 20 years later, you are rediscovered and sent back to fight a different war, a war against the True Sith. Altough, still, it might not be needed...for we do know the Exile himself fought in the Mandalorain Wars without having to actually fight (unless you count the Hidden Tomb's campagin to be fighting). However, that may be done because the Exile DID has a strong contorl over The Force, and after Malachor V, he lost his connection to the Force (and all his levels).

The "Mandalorain War prequel" could be considered the "First planet", and afterwards, you will be unable to go to that planet...most likely due to the fact it is destroyed by your actions. You still keep your levels, but it is now many years later. It would also help new players get aquanited with the story.

But there are other ideas too...I trust the developers in coming up with something, and I actually prefer the First Planet to be fighting the True Sith, and not the Mandalorians...Unless the Jedi Padwan accidently stumbles upon a True Sith outpost and is forced to fight against it...
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:55 PM   #34
Diego Varen
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I like the idea of a battle of the Mandalorian Wars being the start of KOTOR III. It reminds me of the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade when Indiana is shown when he is young, before going into the main storyline of finding the Holy Grail. This is what I'm going to do in one of my Fics in my Saga.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:08 PM   #35
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Maybe the PC could be a nobody on some ****e-hole planet, who stumbles upon some buried Jedi/Sith war remains early on. Ghosts and Holocrons could teach a lot of the early steps of Jedi-hood. I'd rather, as said above, not be limited to a jedi or sith teacher so learning it yourself makes much more sense to me.

Malachor V was destroyed after TSL whatever you chose right? Maybe the force of that scarred surrounding planets with rubble and dark energy. Your planet was one, but more importantly: your planet has become the final resting place of Darth Traya (force ghost stylee) Bastilla has landed on your planet also, following some slim leads on Revan's whereabouts. There's your light/dark teacher and story telling people sorted already. Bastilla came in the Ebon Hawk, which is what led her there in the first place.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:15 PM   #36
SilentScope001
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Malachor V was destroyed after TSL whatever you chose right?
Wrong. Choose DS, and Malachor V remain alive and you "Ascend to the Dark Throne", using Malachor V as a training grounds for a new Jedi/Sith Order.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:05 PM   #37
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I totally agree with the idea of the PC being a nobody on an unknown outer rim planet. I think it would be one of the best ways for the game to work without feeling like it's retreading. K1's backstory was fresh, K2 was done well enough to be believable and unique, but doing it again for K3 would be a mistake. Also, it makes it much easier to offer the option of starting off as a non-human species, which I think is something that many people want, and would also add a fresh twist to the game. Starting off the person as a force-sensitive that hasn't been trained would also be ideal, although I'm not sure how they'd deal with starting classes, as the PC couldn't just be a Jedi class off the bat. They could tweak the regular starting classes to include force powers, or add in or make up some new classes, as they did for K2.

I do think, however, that Mister Chief's idea is fantastic, as it would not only introduce you to your character, fill you in on their back story by being able to play it instead of hear about it, connect you to the past two games, and both introduce and immerse you in the new game all at the same time. I really do hope that K3 will begin with something like this.

As for it being hard to believe a nobody could become as powerful as the previous two PC's, I think it's a well-established trope with plenty of precedence in other epics for a relative nobody becoming the hero of the story. I think it's believable that someone who is Force-sensitive, but untrained on how to use that power, could, through both training and the constant strife of the quest, easily become a hero. You've seen it everywhere, from fairy tales, to children's stories, to books, movies, television, games, backs of cereal boxes, ancient epics, you name it. Howevere, I do think this should be toned down somewhat in K2. In K1, you didn't truly start to feel like you were powerful until near the end of the Unknown Planet and on the Star Forge. In K2, you basically were destroying all opposition anywhere from halfway, or even sooner than halfway, into the game. I thought that it got pretty ridiculous, in that sense, and should definitely be a slower progression in K3.

In regards to the character RP elements of K1 and 2, one of the best quotes I read on this board (which I can't seem to find, as the search terms are too generic, but I'd love to read that thread again and give credit to the original poster if anyone else knows the one I'm referring to) about the difference between Revan and the Exile's back stories was something like this (again, not an exact quote):

"K1's story was, 'This is who you *were*, knowing that, who do you choose to be?', while K2's was 'This is who you *are*, what are you going to do about it?' "

I thought that was a fantastic description of the two, and also went a long way to explaining why I never got as into playing the Exile as I did with Revan. With Revan, even though she had a backstory, the amnesia allowed that character to become *yours*. You got to decide who she was, what she did. The amnesia aspect essentially unencumbered you as the player of the character's past, and allowed you to control their present. As the Exile, I felt a constant struggle to not only understand the character's past (which, in my opinion, is given to you in a very poor way. You should not have to spend most of the game trying to figure out the barest facts about your character), but to understand their motivations. As such, it was much more difficult to feel like I had any control or say over the character's present, and also made it very difficult to roleplay, as most of the time, I really wasn't sure what that character thought about anything.

Granted, the first time I played the game I didn't know you were supposed to create your own backstory, but I don't think that that concept was made clear enough, or implemented very well, and was especially confusing for those coming from K1.

So, for K3 I think starting off with a nobody character with a small backstory would be fine. It's an extremely common beginning for RPG's, and it will continue to be because it is effective. It isn't the character that matters so much as their journey, and who they become while they are on it; and while it is extremely common, it has yet to be used in the KotOR series, and so would be fresh, in a sense, because of that.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:27 PM   #38
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Hopefully he will be a force sensitive that is neither a Jedi nor sith. Maybe just some boy trying to defeat a evil sithlord by finding the three parts of a triangle...
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:49 PM   #39
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Heh. Cue Zelda "Dah nah da dahhhhhh!" treasure chest sound.

I wasn't sure if that was clear in my post, but I would also really prefer that the character start out without any affiliations either. It would make more sense, and give the player more freedom.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:53 PM   #40
SilentScope001
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As for it being hard to believe a nobody could become as powerful as the previous two PC's, I think it's a well-established trope with plenty of precedence in other epics for a relative nobody becoming the hero of the story. I think it's believable that someone who is Force-sensitive, but untrained on how to use that power, could, through both training and the constant strife of the quest, easily become a hero. You've seen it everywhere, from fairy tales, to children's stories, to books, movies, television, games, backs of cereal boxes, ancient epics, you name it.
Yeah, it's common, but it's...um...hard to believe. Usually, those people have reasons why they are able to do it.

I do want the PC to have a Force Connection and be the only one that can destroy the True Sith. Why? Because if he's just some nobody...and he smashed the True Sith, then why not SOMEONE ELSE? You also make the True Sith look very, very stupid...which I do not want to happen.

It's quite simple. You are part of a triangle, you got True Sith blood, you created by The Exile, yadda yadda yadda. I just want a reason. Otherwise...you are just like everyone else.

In the KOTOR series, they don't say, "You are able to beat them...because you tried and tried and tried." They got reasons for you.

Suppose you got your untrained Force Senstive and let HIM face Darth Nihlius, the weak idiot. At least with The Exile, there was a storyline reason that Darth Nihlius can die, because the Exile is a wound. But, your untrained Force Senstive will be able to destroy Darth Nihlius for no reason expect that...um...he can. WTH?! Unbelivable.

Please forgive me, but without any sort of McGuffin or reason, you cannot suspend disbelief.

But, the rest of your points are okay. I rather have the person be a Jedi Padwan, only because it gives you some connection to the Story, and allow you to view the results of The Exile's actions on the new Jedi Order. But all I really do want is a well- constructed Force Connection, with an fixed background and race from which I can play with (I do NOT want a generic campagin!).

I also like discovering more about my character, rather than having it forced to you...and allowing you contorl (Do you regret what you done in the past?). It seemed bad that you are stuck as Revan in K1, but that is just me.

(EDIT: Explaination on why I want a fixed background. With a fixed background, the Game can provide missions based off that background and give them more creativity. Without a fixed background, the Game is FORCED to give general missions, without going into detail of the background, because you come up with it. That's lazy game design. We need a fixed story.

And to me, a Fixed Storyline does include Aricthect's story of "Grey Jedi trained by Jolee Bindo and Fought against the Sith Empire", as well as Mister Chief "Fighting in Mandalorian Wars". That's a fixed background, that allows the developers to play around and make a better game.)
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