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Old 02-13-2007, 10:37 AM   #41
Ray Jones
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The hell, you're right Mace. Mankind ain't ready for intargelucktique trips. But I'm willing to be helpful here.

I make dem girls familar with my space rocket.


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Old 02-13-2007, 12:52 PM   #42
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Why it got to be a utopia all of a sudden [...]
Utopia? I never claimed it had to be an utopia, I claimed it has to be livable. Think about the conditions in your average middle class American neighborhood, then think about the women in Africa who have to walk for two miles just for a bucket of mucky, bacteria-infested water. I don't aim for the Rwandans of North Koreans to live in an utopia, I merely want them to live good lives, like the lives of us lucky Norsemen and Americans and Brits and South Koreans born with silver spoons up our anal openings.

And "all of a sudden"? I think humans have been dreaming of happiness for quite some time now.

Quote:
[...] I see there is no use trying to interest a doubter of scientific progress.
On the contrary, I've already stated that I'm very interested in space technology. But not at the cost of the poverty-stricken in the world, the victims of crime, slavery and violence, and the millions bound to suffer from global warming.

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When is you going to get this in your head man, there will be no end to the horriable conditions in developing countries [...]
Why not? We've ended horrible conditions in other countries. Look at how little was left of Germany and Japan after World War II and then consider how well they're doing today.

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Povery won't end completely here on this rock, if you keep believing that it will then you are living in a utopia.
Again, I'm not aiming for abolition of poverty. I leave that to the more optimistic socialists.

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What the hell is you talking about?
As I explained earlier, it's a metaphor depicting the choice we've got to make regarding space travel. Space travel is the new gaming console, solving our planet's problems is the antibiotics for your sick cousin. We've got two options: The cool and the necessary.

Quote:
Tax dollars wasted!
Money, money and more money is that all you think about.
I don't understand how this idea got into your head, especially when your next sentence begins with "since you care about the poor...".

And yes, many rich people and countries do care about the poor, as do humanitarian organizations. It's not unsolvable problem.

And yes, I've got faith in the fixing of the corrupt and non-functional UN, just like you've obviously got faith in your incompetent NASA.

Quote:
The planets and stars are still going to be there in 50-100 years from now [...]
Exactly. It's not like we're chasing some Mystery Trader from Stars!. We're looking at a universe that's been there for billions of years and shows no sign of planning to vanish in the near future.

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[...] as it stands right now, we're in a lot more danger of wiping ourselves out through war, famine, pestilence, global warming, voting Republican/Sinn Fein/DUP, etc etc etc than we are from space-borne debris.
Correct. It's a common argument that we should prepare ourselves against Mr. Doomsday Asteroid™, but what about the environmental threats right here at our doorstep? I'm sure the victims of natural disasters, crime and terrorism will be really happy to know that they're at least safe from some huge rock that may hit us in 400 years, but I doubt it provides them much comfort.


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Old 02-13-2007, 04:01 PM   #43
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I don't know what makes anybody think they could ever get a seat on one of these missions anyway.


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Last edited by edlib; 02-13-2007 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:08 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Okay, this is all just getting silly.
Of course it is silly to you.
Because discussion is about interstellar travel, this kind of discussion is always silly as you see it.
So, it is pointless trying to interest you, so I'm not going to bother trying to.



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Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
The planets and stars are still going to be there in 50-100 years from now
See, that is the kind of laziness I'm talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
we have to solve our earthly problems (yes, including racism, money, Nazis, and all your other favourite topics for incoherent, technicolour ranting) in order to make sure that we as a species are still around in 50-100 years' time
.

Racism will not be solve that is a fool's errand, even my ranting ass will accept that; when we ever or IF we ever travel the Milky Way racism will still be present, it will be racism of other species in this galaxy.

Last edited by windu6; 02-14-2007 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 02-14-2007, 03:22 AM   #45
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Windu, seriously, there is more needed than "hyperspace drive technology" to go "out there".


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Old 02-14-2007, 08:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by windu6
Of course it is silly to you.
Because discussion is about interstellar travel, this kind of discussion is always silly as you see it.
So, it is pointless trying to interest you, so I'm not going to bother trying to.
Who said I'm not interested in interstellar travel? Of course I'm interested in interstellar travel. I'm also interested in solving our terrestrial problems like everyone else here except you. As usual.
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Originally Posted by windu6
Racism will not be solve that is a fool's errand, even my ranting ass will accept that; when we ever or IF we ever travel the Milky Way racism will still be present, it will be racism of other species in this galaxy.
Well, now who's being lazy? I for one believe that it is possible to solve problems like that, and that we should put more effort and expense into doing so, rather than pouring all society's resources into hyperdrive research just because some college kids are chomping at the bit to run away from their problems.

If the girls on Earth all ignore you, why would the ones on Sirius be any different?


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Old 02-14-2007, 08:24 AM   #47
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Because Sirius girls eat only human flesh?


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Old 02-14-2007, 08:38 AM   #48
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Siriusly?

OK... with that, I'm think I'm done with this thread.

When United starts starts booking cheap vacation flights to the Pleiades, give me a call... and please feel free to come back and tell me "I told you so!"

Until then I think I'll just sit back and wait and see if anybody can provide conclusive proofs that this guy's theories have any merit.


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Old 02-14-2007, 08:53 AM   #49
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Oh, and prioritizing≠Laziness.

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Old 02-14-2007, 09:07 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Who said I'm not interested in interstellar travel? Of course I'm interested in interstellar travel. I'm also interested in solving our terrestrial problems like everyone else here except you.
As usual.
So, if this hyperdrive engine become a reality, we should remain here and solve every single problem at a 100% success value?

Problems: environmental destruction, global warming, diseases, poverty and etc.
What else?
We will always have diseases; poverty will always be present to a degree, global warming: oil campanies and some chemical companies are responsible of this problem.
Possible solutions of global warming : hydrogen fuel cells, get rid of oil companies, stop using oil completely, more nuclear power plants creation & stop heavy deforestation(plants live off CO2, more plants and trees the better) and etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Well, now who's being lazy? I for one believe that it is possible to solve problems like that, and that we should put more effort and expense into doing so, rather than pouring all society's resources into hyperdrive research just because some college kids are chomping at the bit to run away from their problems.
The only thing I believe that is going to solve racism, is when the aliens reveal themselves or they land on the proverbial White House lawn, after all the religious rioting.
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Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
If the girls on Earth all ignore you, why would the ones on Sirius be any different?
What the hell is this suppose to mean?
Let me guess you are calling me a loser, because I want to travel the Milky Way today so, I must not have a women or getting any.
Huh?

Last edited by windu6; 02-14-2007 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:33 AM   #51
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What do you want to do with that hyperdrive engine?


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Old 02-14-2007, 09:58 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Ray Jones
What do you want to do with that hyperdrive engine?
Obviously, Ray if Heim's Quantum Gravity theory physics is true in our universe, I want to explore the Milky Way.
Or as they say in Star Trek, seek out new life and new civilizations and boldly go where no man has gone before".
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:21 AM   #53
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So, where will you mount the hyperdrive engine?


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Old 02-14-2007, 02:34 PM   #54
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Old 02-16-2007, 02:30 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ray Jones
So, where will you mount the hyperdrive engine?
Well, depending on this size of the torus (donut shape) ring, which can range 1-6 meters in radius can be mounted in different sizes of space vehicles(yet to be build spacecraft).

I think a torus ring of about 1 meters in radius(or 2 meters in diameter) can be structured inside the space shuttle.

Last edited by windu6; 02-16-2007 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:17 AM   #56
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Ah, and the space shuttle is actually a craft capable of leaving the solar system? And I thought it isn't even able to get us to the moon.


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Old 02-19-2007, 07:16 AM   #57
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Ah, and the space shuttle is actually a craft capable of leaving the solar system? And I thought it isn't even able to get us to the moon.
I just was giving a example, that the hyperdrive engine the engineers of Heim's Quantum Gravity theory proposes, is not to big to be put inside a more capable spacecraft than the shuttle.

For the space shuttle to be a truely capable of interstellar travel.
First: it will have to have a nuclear reactor to power a strong magnetic field to deflect charge interstellar radiation like in stellar winds; solar wind proton plasma, charge cosmic radiation ;cause by supernova explosions, rotating neutron stars, radio galaxies(that are very luminous at radio wavelengths), quasars( old galaxies that have a feeding supermassive black hole]) and cosmic radiation comes from black hole's extremely strong magnetic fields as observation and theory suggestes at the moment; cosmic rays are 90% very high speed protons moving at about 149,025 mi/s close to the speed of light or 80% the speed of light.
A space vehicle or the space shuttle would also need to be protected from high density intersellar medium gas and dense plasma nebulae gas and without a doubt a cold plasma shield technology would be needed to absorb highly intense radiation that is not charge like gamma radiation or other unknown high energy radiation that may exist in the Milky Way and the universe; x-rays is high speed electrons & beta radiation is slow speed electrons or a positrons(antimatter) so can be deflected with a magnetic field.
A nuclear reactor may also perferred to power high thrust ion engines for sublight propuslion for a failsafe if negative graviphoton propulsion is offline.
Second: the space shuttle will probably have to be refitted and sized up a bit to put in a small nuclear reactor or reactors (that currenly occupy navy ships and nuclear subs) and for huge amount of food stuffs for long interstellar or intergalactic voyages; the physics of hyperspace susggest that Miguel Alcubierre warpdrive is to slow for intergalactic travel, hell the calculations I have done and that I have seen in physical review letters suggest it is way to slow and energy intensive compare to hyperdrive FTL propulsion for long interstellar voyages in this galaxy.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:05 AM   #58
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Hm. How much of these needed space shuttle modifications are there already realised, or in progress, or planned at all? Do we have effective shield technology at hand? And by effective I think it should at least have been half an our in let's say Mercury's orbit to be of any use.
Or, do we have tested and established small space craft nuclear reactors? How much of the needed "hardware" for a space craft that is actually useful for use together with a hyperdrive-engine is already developed tested and waiting for action?


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Old 02-19-2007, 12:08 PM   #59
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Hm. How much of these needed space shuttle modifications are there already realised, or in progress, or planned at all? Do we have effective shield technology at hand? And by effective I think it should at least have been half an our in let's say Mercury's orbit to be of any use.
Or, do we have tested and established small space craft nuclear reactors? How much of the needed "hardware" for a space craft that is actually useful for use together with a hyperdrive-engine is already developed tested and waiting for action?
Hell, with all the secrets to U.S. military has, the U.S. government probably already have a starship for all we know, Ray.
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:06 PM   #60
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Hell, with all the secrets to U.S. military has, the U.S. government probably already have a starship for all we know, Ray.
So we have the technology, but the military won't give it to Nasa because...?



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Old 02-19-2007, 01:08 PM   #61
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Yes, and with all this knowledge and tech and thus possibilities they have nothing better to do than err.. nothing but keeping it secret so nobody knows?

[edit] Eh, Tyrion, 'sup?



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Old 02-20-2007, 12:12 AM   #62
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So we have the technology, but the military won't give it to Nasa because...?
You are really sh*ting yourself Tyrion if you believe the military is not interested in having a starfleet.
The U.S. military have gotten interested in Heim's Quantum Gravity Theory for it's application toward Hyperdrive FTL propulsion.
Also NASA is apart of the U.S. government so some employes at NASA maybe working on secret technology.
And also NASA is not always straight with the public; like their denial or their reluctance to acknowledge the UFO reports that some of it's astronauts have been reporting over the years.
So, NASA
have dirty hands too, when it come to telling the truth, Tyrion.
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:30 AM   #63
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You are really sh*ting yourself Tyrion if you believe the military is not interested in having a starfleet.
The U.S. military have gotten interested in Heim's Quantum Gravity Theory for it's application toward Hyperdrive FTL propulsion.
Also NASA is apart of the U.S. government so some employes at NASA maybe working on secret technology.
And also NASA is not always straight with the public; like their denial or their reluctance to acknowledge the UFO reports that some of it's astronauts have been reporting over the years.
So, NASA
have dirty hands too, when it come to telling the truth, Tyrion.
Yes, but there's a great deal of difference between showing an interest and actually possessing the technology. There's absolutely no evidence that the military or any branch of the government has inter-galactic space ships, if only because we haven't been hearing sonic booms that could shatter mountains. And yes, those ships would be making quite the noise considering they'd have to travel out of the atmosphere fast enough to not be noticed by anyone.

Speaking of which, wouldn't that mean each one would need a nuclear reactor each just to power the sucker? What'd happen if the initiation sequence went boink and was sent in reverse? Man, I'd hate to be the PR spokesman who'd have to deal with the double whammy of both the revelation of extragalactic technology and the fact that there's a giant city-size hole in the middle of the desert.

('Sup Ray)



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Old 02-20-2007, 01:06 AM   #64
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Yes, but there's a great deal of difference between showing an interest and actually possessing the technology.
Can be for sure can you.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion
There's absolutely no evidence that the military or any branch of the government has inter-galactic space ships, if only because we haven't been hearing sonic booms that could shatter mountains.
Well, you keep believing that lie, Tyrion.
The gigantic UFOs that pilots report maybe U.S. starships and not alien in origin.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion
And yes, those ships would be making quite the noise considering they'd have to travel out of the atmosphere fast enough to not be noticed by anyone.
And no, if they are using antigravity or a plasma induction field there will be no sonic booms, with antigravity one can move air aside and fly in a vaccum, that won't produce any shock wave and a hot plasma induction field can ionize the air or heat it enough to cause a expansion wave that will act to negate a build up of pressure in front a vehicle that leads to producing a shock wave.

Also by ionizing the air molecules(with a sufficient electrical charge imbalance) one could use a sufficiently strong magnetic field to deflect air to lower the air density around the flow field of a vehicle that will lower pressure that acts to produce a shockwave.
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Originally Posted by Tyrion
Speaking of which, wouldn't that mean each one would need a nuclear reactor each just to power the sucker? What'd happen if the initiation sequence went boink and was sent in reverse? Man, I'd hate to be the PR spokesman who'd have to deal with the double whammy of both the revelation of extragalactic technology and the fact that there's a giant city-size hole in the middle of the desert.
For all we know they may have some alien technology that maybe much more powerful even than anitmatter or E=mc^2 energy.

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Old 02-20-2007, 01:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by windu6
Can be for sure can you.
What?

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Well, you keep believing that lie, Tyrion. :lol;
The gigantic UFOs that pilots report maybe U.S. starships and not alien in origin.
Or they could be visual phenomenon and misidentification, which is by far much more likely.

Quote:
And no, if they are using antigravity or a plasma induction field there will be no sonic booms, with antigravity one can move air aside and fly in a vaccum, that won't produce any shockwave and aplasma induction field can ionize the air or heat it enough to cause a expanion wave that will act to negate a build up pressure in front a vehicle that produce a shockwave.
Keep it simple. Once you start adding in plasma induction fields (which, presumably, could be used inside rifles or at least tanks. I wonder why we haven't stuck a few of those babies on some Abrams, eh?) and anti-gravity generators, it brings to light the question of why none of those technologies have diffused into common knowledge and use.

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For all we know they may have some alien technology that maybe much more powerful even than anitmatter or E=mc^2 energy.
Er, what? Now you're breaking the foundations of all established physics. Practically every scientist since 1905 would be rolling in their grave if E=mc^2 was proven false. Besides which, if we did have just abundant sources of energy why would we be fighting in Iraq essentially for obsolete oil fuel?



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Old 02-20-2007, 01:32 AM   #66
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What?
Can you be for sure that the U.S. military don't possesses starships, since they have massive secrets?

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Originally Posted by Tyrion
Or they could be visual phenomenon and misidentification, which is by far much more likely.
Misidentification!

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Originally Posted by Tyrion
Keep it simple. Once you start adding in plasma induction fields (which, presumably, could be used inside rifles or at least tanks. I wonder why we haven't stuck a few of those babies on some Abrams, eh?) and anti-gravity generators, it brings to light the question of why none of those technologies have diffused into common knowledge and use.
I was explaining that the physics is possible to negate shockwave effects.


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Er, what? Now you're breaking the foundations of all established physics. Practically every scientist since 1905 would be rolling in their grave if E=mc^2 was proven false. Besides which, if we did have just abundant sources of energy why would we be fighting in Iraq essentially for obsolete oil fuel?
Well, all established physics foundations will be broken once we start exploring the universe.
It maybe the case that the right side of the U.S. government don't know what the hell the left side is doing.

But I was saying that a conversion factor t>>1, no units in E=tmc^2
maybe needed for possible unknown energy properties that maybe found in this universe with some unknown matter.

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Old 02-20-2007, 02:48 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
The gigantic UFOs that pilots report maybe U.S. starships
So, again (and due to a lacking response to my post), the military *has* a better spacecraft than the spaceshuttle, with probably valuable deep space technology, and it's not using it exactly why?


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Old 02-20-2007, 05:17 AM   #68
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So, again (and due to a lacking response to my post), the military *has* a better spacecraft than the spaceshuttle, with probably valuable deep space technology, and it's not using it exactly why?
They may have several spacecraft better than the spaceshuttle and how can you be absolutely sure they are not using it ?
They have massive secrets, Ray.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:37 AM   #69
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Did I say they don't use it? I didn't say they don't use it. I asked you, why do you think they have advanced space craft technology and are not using it.


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Old 02-20-2007, 05:59 AM   #70
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Did I say they don't use it? I didn't say they don't use it. I asked you, why do you think they have advanced space craft technology and are not using it.
I already believe the military are flying highly advance spacecraft, some of those UFOs that people see maybe advance military spacecraft flown by test pilots who do black projects.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:05 AM   #71
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A jet that gets the enemy good and blowd up better does NOT mean the government can travel to distant stars.

Jesus. Relax off the science fiction novels.
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:15 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I already believe the military are flying highly advance spacecraft, some of those UFOs that people see maybe advance military spacecraft flown by test pilots who do black projects.
Then what are you complaining about if we actually *have* and are *using* superior space technology?

How can you be sure that, somewhere in another solar system, possibly even right now, there is not a human craft attempting to have a touch down on some rocky planet?


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Old 02-20-2007, 06:34 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Datheus
A jet that gets the enemy good and blowd up better does NOT mean the government can travel to distant stars.

Jesus. Relax off the science fiction novels.
Well, you keep believing that I'm not going to argue with you.
Also science fiction is becoming science that's all I got to say, Datheus.
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:14 AM   #74
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*ehemehemehem*

Windu6, what are you complaining about if we actually *have* and are *using* superior space technology?

How can you be sure that, somewhere in another solar system, possibly even right now, there is not a human craft attempting to have a touch down on some rocky planet?


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Old 02-20-2007, 07:15 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
Then what are you complaining about if we actually *have* and are *using* superior space technology?
It's very obvious what I'm complaining about they keep this stuff secret.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
How can you be sure that, somewhere in another solar system, possibly even right now, there is not a human craft attempting to have a touch down on some rocky planet?
Of course, I can't be completely sure I'm not in the loop, concerning the secrets of the U.S. government; I'm speculating that some of those UFOs probably have the U.S Airforce or U.S. Navy seal on them.

Jim Goodall a aviation expert pose a question concerning whats at Area 51 to Ben Rich a now decease former vice president and was head propulsion engineer of 'Skunk Works' that developed the U-2 spyplane and SR-71 Blackbird and F-117 Stealth fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by from Area 51 - the Dreamland Chronicles" by David Darlington
Jim Goodall : "Ben Rich told me twice before he died: 'We have things at Area 51 that you and the best minds in the world won't even be able to conceive that we have for 30 or 40 years, and won't
be made public for another 50.' A friend of mine at Lockheed told me: 'We have things in the Nevada desert that are alien to your way of thinking -- far beyond anything you see on Star Trek.'
One time I interviewed a retired senior master sergeant who had been at Groom Lake three different times as an Air Force safety specialist. ... At first he was real nervous, but when he warmed up he told me: 'We have things that would make George Lucas envious.' I know one retired guy who worked at Lockheed for 30 years, most of the time at Area 51 ; he's very proud of what he's done, and he wants the story of the place to be told so that his grandchildren will have some idea of what he was involved in. In the summer of '86 I asked him if he believes in UFOs. He said, They absolutely, positively do exist !' I said, 'Can you expand on that?' And he said, 'No, I've said too much as it is.' "
So, something maybe is going on out there at Groom Lake.
That is really fascinating!

Last edited by windu6; 02-20-2007 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 07:47 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
It's very obvious what I'm complaining about they keep this stuff secret.
No you didn't:
Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6, earlier in this thread
One main thing that stop all human progress is our strong dependency on money, if money was no issue we will probably colonizing the Milky Way right now.
As along as money determine our fate in the galaxy we will be stuck on this planet for 10,000s of years, never to leave until over population force us to leave.
[...]
The physics is there, money and laziness of our society only holds us back.
I cannot find such statement.. Actually you came up with the "military's keepin' it secret argument" not before post #59.

More obviously you mocked the "fact" that we (mankind) have not reached out to travel into distant space.

Right now you say that "they" probably or even almost for sure already have technology for space travel (and even starships) at hand. But wouldn't that mean we're into space travel already? And if that's so, wouldn't be the only logical thing to do be to actively use it for what it's been made for?

So basically, if anyone on this planet has constructed a cool space craft with whateveritscalledfasttravellingtechnology, I'll bet my life any time, it has been used already, hence your argumentation about laziness would be not correct.


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Old 02-20-2007, 08:13 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Ray Jones
No you didn't:
I cannot find such statement.. Actually you came up with the "military's keepin' it secret argument" not before post #59.
You must have not seen my previous old thread:Who believe that the world's militaries may have been secretly builing star fleets? I been speculating about this since 09-15-2006, 10:53 PM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
More obviously you mocked the "fact" that we (mankind) have not reached out to travel into distant space.
Yes, I mock the fact, it's ridiculous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
So basically, if anyone on this planet has constructed a cool space craft with whateveritscalledfasttravellingtechnology, I'll bet my life any time, it has been used already, hence your argumentation about laziness would be not correct.
There are lazy people who don't want expedite matters to fast concerning interstellar travel.
They want delay it for generations and solve every single problem here first, or they don't care about interstellar travel
Leave that matter 50 years or so in the future, as the opinions they have.

Last edited by windu6; 02-20-2007 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:17 AM   #78
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Where is the logic when you mock the fact that mankind's not up to leave for space adventures but also state that there are already space crafts available, which also are at least underlying the process of being tested?


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Old 02-20-2007, 08:27 AM   #79
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Where is the logic when you mock the fact that mankind's not up to leave for space adventures but also state that there are already space crafts available, which also are at least underlying the process of being tested?
Ok, Ray some in our society, who experiment with secret technology are up to it.
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:32 AM   #80
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Yeah, and basically you're just jealous because you're not one of them. ;


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