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Old 02-15-2007, 04:37 PM   #1
The Source
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Recovering From: Episodes I, II, & III - Rambling

Recovering From Episode I, II, & III - Rambling
Star Wars is such an addiction, and it plays on your imagination in so many ways. At the start of the new year, I made a resolution that seemed abnormal. I decided to recover from Episode I, II, and III. Instead of being upset in the long run, (plus, being tempted by their names), I chose to do what people may think is insane. I sold all three episodes. George has done some great movies in his time, but there are some that don't sit well. I am talking about my own personal perspective of Episode I-III. I give him a thumbs up for making a massive empire out of Star Wars. His success is one to admire. Going from a small unknown independant film maker to a high status writter, producer, and director is amazing. Yes, I am still going to keep the classic episodes, for they have been apart of my 30 years of life. Out of all the writters for EU, I have continued to be drawn to Timothy Zhan. Zhan has gone on record that he has plans on staying with the classical era of Star Wars. He even mentions that he has no interest in writting in any other time period. Outside of Zhan's writtings and Episode IV, V, and VI, I won't get my daily injection of classic Star Wars.

Knights of the Old Republic is an amazing series. Since it does not deal with the events surrounding Episode I-III, I am drawn to this franchise like glue. The characters are fleshed out pretty nicely, and the first game's storyline is pretty solid. I have high hopes of a third act, and I hope it matches the intensity I found in KotOR I.

Enough of my story. Are you recovering from a portion of Star Wars? What is your take?



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Last edited by MacCorp; 02-15-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 02-15-2007, 04:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCorp
True Star Wars fans know when something is wrong.
How is it up there on the high horse?

EDIT: In answer to your question: the NJO and the effects thereof.

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Old 02-15-2007, 04:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Prime
How is it up there on the high horse?
My intention was not to come off badly. If that was the case, I apologize for the offense. I removed the line, so I wouldn't offend anyone.



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Old 02-15-2007, 04:51 PM   #4
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Fair enough.

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Old 02-15-2007, 05:09 PM   #5
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...the NJO and the effects thereof.
I can relate to that. When it comes to the NJO, I have a hard time swallowing the death of Chewy, the Vong, and how the New Order was designed. The Vong don't feel very Star Wars to me. It may be because they don't fit into what we know of the classics. Like the mediclorians(sp?). We went from the force being an energyfield to a group of microscopic beings. Within my perspective of the Force, the mediclorians(sp?) don't have that spiritual or telepathic 'will' feeling that I was introduced to.



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Old 02-15-2007, 05:27 PM   #6
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I was upset when I first saw Episode I. Jar Jar Binks just wasnít my thing, but to be fair my now eleven year old cousin loved him. Other little Star Wars freaks, I help convert, all loved him. They saw what the adult me could not and they all love Episode I-III as much as I love the original trilogy.

I have no problem with how George Lucas told the story he created. Iím just thankful that he completed the story. Even though I found some of it predictable and other parts completely illogical, overall I still enjoyed it. At his worst George Lucas is still better than 90% of the Scifi directors/writers out there. All 6 of the Star Wars movies hold a place in my top ten all time movies, Episodes I-III are just on the bottom of that list, while III-VI are at the top.

Iím not trying to get over any portion of Star Wars. I watch and enjoy all the movies and play most of the games. I never got into reading any of the books or comics. I tried, but they just didnít capture my imagination.


I didnít find the line offensive, but I really enjoyed Primeís reply. Prime seems to be a man of few words, but always to the point and funny.


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Old 02-15-2007, 05:39 PM   #7
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The Prequel Trilogy, mainly Episode I doesn't deserve the hate it recieves. Sure the acting might be slightly worse (I was watching all six the other day), but I still enjoyed them. If there was any episode I was disappointed with, it was Episode II. While it had the beginnings of the Clone Wars, Hayden didn't do a good portrayal of Anakin and him and Padme just didn't do so well. Overall, like mimartin said in his post, I'm just glad the Saga is complete.
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Old 02-15-2007, 06:05 PM   #8
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Why would anyone want to recover from Star Wars? The best thing to do would be to create a vaccine against Star Wars. That way the next generation would be completely immune to the addicting affects of the films. But that would be a bad thing considering that there is the potential to lose money and all that good stuff that accompanies franchise...

Anyway I am not recovering. I am moderating. To be honest I haven't played a game in months and I haven't watched any of the films in almost a year. Yeah for me...All I have to is just come online and talk to you crazy people every day and I get a dose of Star Wars, even if it is of the comedic variety

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Old 02-15-2007, 06:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Topsite
The Prequel Trilogy, mainly Episode I doesn't deserve the hate it recieves. Sure the acting might be slightly worse (I was watching all six the other day), but I still enjoyed them. If there was any episode I was disappointed with, it was Episode II. While it had the beginnings of the Clone Wars, Hayden didn't do a good portrayal of Anakin and him and Padme just didn't do so well. Overall, like mimartin said in his post, I'm just glad the Saga is complete.
Agreed. They don't warrant all the hate, though Episode II was somewhat disappointing.
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Old 02-15-2007, 06:09 PM   #10
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Hasn't it already been established that the prequel trilogy isn't anywhere near the same quality level as the original trilogy in about 8 billion other threads...?


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Old 02-15-2007, 06:12 PM   #11
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Yes.

I'm only disappointed in Anakins poor dialogue in Episode I and II.

Other than that I was pretty happy with I-II, I didn't mind Jar-Jar at all.

This picture that I took from the Finnish Episode III premiere still warms my heart


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Old 02-15-2007, 07:23 PM   #12
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Funny this topic came up. I am taking a sixth month break from Kotor because i have played it so many times, it's lost it's wonder for me slightly. So im giving the game amiss for a while until i get my Kotor mojo back.


Waking up.
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Old 02-15-2007, 10:52 PM   #13
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Well, I actually liked Episodes 1 & 2, mainly because it fit right in to my age group - I was almost 8 when Episode 1 came out, and almost 11 when Episode 2 came out. But in the past few years, I've really become discouraged at the lack of quality of the Prequel Trilogy. The whole PT is filled with stupid dialogue and horrible acting. Also over the past few years, I've really come to appreciate the OT. I don't necessarily base my opinion of a movie solely on the action. Even with all that though, Episode 3 is still my favorite. It's the only one I can watch more than once or twice in a week.

So basically, I've been recovering from the lack of quality of the PT.


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Old 02-15-2007, 10:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topsite
The Prequel Trilogy, mainly Episode I doesn't deserve the hate it recieves. Sure the acting might be slightly worse (I was watching all six the other day), but I still enjoyed them. If there was any episode I was disappointed with, it was Episode II. While it had the beginnings of the Clone Wars, Hayden didn't do a good portrayal of Anakin and him and Padme just didn't do so well. Overall, like mimartin said in his post, I'm just glad the Saga is complete.
I think people have a right to their opinion. Good or bad as their opinion seems, I believe that people have a right to express how they feel. When it comes to my opinion on the Prequel Trilogy, I cannot relate to a ten-year old kid. During my journey from four (release of ANH) to thirty, I could relate to an older set of characters. Luke's first appearance was when he was 18/20 years old. Anikan's first appearance is when he is ten. When I was growning up, I looked up to Luke, Han, and Ben. I can still relate to Luke and Han as I grow older. I cannot relate to Anikan. His story started way too young for me. Yes, I did enjoy the special effects of Episode III, but I personally believe the story was rushed and hacked. I did not like General Grevious in the same manner that I did not like Jar Jar. Grevious walks like a chicken, and clears his throught as if he is cluking like one. Anikan's story is not believeable for me. After watching Episode I-III, I now see a kid trapped in machinery. It would have been nice to see Anikan at the age of twenty-seven, and taking a much more believable darkside turn. Now, I just see him as a kid being suckered and manipulated. He gave up too easily. Bastila Shan in KotOR was totured, but Anikan just gave up. That doesn't sound like a darkside fall to me. Just my opinion. I am not trying to tell people not to like the movies.

When I used the phrase "I am recovering from Episode I, II, and III", I was talking about recovering from being let down. Instead of letting the DVD cases anger me as I walk by the DVD shelve, I decided to deal with the issue once and for all. I sold them.



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Old 02-15-2007, 11:50 PM   #15
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It's all about business. Star Wars is a huge name, no matter how good the movies are, reputation would have pulled in profits anyways. I know I wouldn't have cared if the movie reviews sucked, I would have still went to watch them all. They wouldn't have had to make it that great in order to still make a lot of money.

Like Kotor II, I never read reviews or looked at the rankings. I just bought it because it's Kotor. For all I knew at the time it could have sucked.

But for the record, I thought episode I II III were fantastic as well as Kotor 2.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:29 AM   #16
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Hey, I enjoyed the Prequels. And so of you may think I am on glue or something in relation, but I had no problem with Jar Jar being the film. I thought the movies were great, too. I intend to keep them.


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Old 02-16-2007, 02:25 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCorp
I think people have a right to their opinion. Good or bad as their opinion seems, I believe that people have a right to express how they feel.
Good, then you shouldn't have a problem with my opposite perspective. A lot of people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I think that Star Wars got better with each successive movie. My order of preference is...

1. Revenge of the Sith

2. Attack of the Clones

3. Phantom Menace

4. Return of the Jedi

5. Empire Strikes Back

6. A New Hope

I am not a spring chicken either. I was 6 years old when A New Hope was released and I still like the Prequels better.

Quote:
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He gave up too easily. Bastila Shan in KotOR was tortured, but Anikan just gave up.
This was my only gripe about Episode III. I, too, thought it would have been better to have a little more torture involved.

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Old 02-16-2007, 02:46 AM   #18
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I wasn't around when the original Trilogy came out and Return of the Jedi was the first one I saw, before The Phantom Menace. I was seven, when TPM came out and I never minded Jar Jar. Maybe it was because I was seven, but even now, I don't mind him. He was a character who became an important part of the Prequels. In AOTC (I was ten, when it came out), he took over as Senator and made a big mistake, which if the decision hadn't been made, the galaxy would be very different. Overall AOTC bored me, because of politics, etc. ROTS, I was thirteen and I found it much better than AOTC, but I'm not sure if I prefer it to TPM. Anyway, I'll do what MdKnightR has done and put them in a list, one being the best and six being the worst.

1. Return of the Jedi

2. Revenge of the Sith

3. The Empire Strikes Back

4. The Phantom Menace

5. A New Hope

6. Attack of the Clones

Sorry for rambling, I don't usually make long posts.
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Old 02-16-2007, 12:05 PM   #19
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It is pretty interesting to see how different people perceived the same movies. @MdKnightR - Nope. I don't mind at all. I thought Anikan could have fallen to the darkside in three ways. He could have been tortured untill he submitted. -or- He could have confronted Mace alone in a conquest for power. -or- He could have snuck around killing Jedi on his own, for he bought into Palpatine's false sense of order. If you watch the scene where Anikan kneels before Palpatine, he was crying from all the chaos he caused. From my perspective, I did not see a darkside turn. Instead, I felt as if he surrendered.

If I had to give an order to how I liked the films, it would appear like this:

1. Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Return of the Jedi

3. Revenge of the Sith

4. Attack of the Clones

5. The Phantom Menace

CountVerilucus - When it comes to making money, I 100% agree with your philosophy. Since we are use to a certain quality of movie, we will place an amount of faith on the writter's, producer's, or director's abilities. I have no regret in seeing these movies, for I also enjoyed the fun of Episode IV, V, and VI. I did not read a single review on KotOR II or the Prequels, for I trusted George and Lucas Arts to repeat their success. This does not mean that I do not trust George, but it will get me to question his future movies and games. I have never bought into a movie based upon CGI. You can have the best CGI in the world, but your storyline is almost non-existant. From my personal perspective, I thought Episode III's CGI was outstanding for any movie. However, I thought the story telling was horrible.

I am glad we can disguss this topic in this way, for it shows that we all have different interpretations and tastes. We are all Star Wars fans, but how we approach the franchise is unique. Thanks.



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Old 02-16-2007, 12:28 PM   #20
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Well since we're all posting our order of preferance now, I guess I will too.

1. Revenge of the Sith

2. Empire Strikes Back

3. Return of the Jedi

4. A New Hope

5. Attack of the Clones

6. The Phantom Menace

Don't take my last post the wrong way. I still like the prequels and I never intend on selling them, but I've come to like the OT a lot better.

I do like The Phantom Menace, but it gets almost unbearable after watching just a few minutes of Jake Lloyd's acting. He's absolutely pathetic. I think even Christensen was better than him.

Then of course, the horrible love story in AOTC is... well... horrible.
Anakin: "Not like here. Here everything is soft... and smooth."

*kiss*

Padme: "No, I shouldn't have done that."

Anakin: "I'm sorry."

... worst scene is the whole saga.


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Old 02-16-2007, 06:06 PM   #21
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Guess Iíll weigh in to with my order of preference.

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Attack of the Clones
6. The Phantom Menace

Quote:
Originally Posted by MdKnightR
This was my only gripe about Episode III. I, too, thought it would have been better to have a little more torture involved.
My opinion is that if the love story between Padme and Anakin would have been more believable then Anakinís surrender to the darkside would have been more believable. Like EagerWeasel said George Lucas didnít do a very good job with the love story dialog. This failure in the Episodes II and III sold short the belief that Anakin would give up everything good in him and around him to save her. If you are under the belief that they were so in love, then his doing whatever he could to save her makes sense, especially after what happen to his mother and the brush off Yoda gave him. At least Palpatine was sympatric to his problem and gave him some hope (even if it was only a lie). Yodaís advice just sucked.


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Old 02-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #22
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My opinion is that if the love story between Padme and Anakin would have been more believable then Anakinís surrender to the darkside would have been more believable. Like EagerWeasel said George Lucas didnít do a very good job with the love story dialog.
Interesting take on it. What I cannot figure out is the age difference between Anikan and Padame. If Padame was sixteen in Phantom Menace and Anikan was ten, there would be a maturity issue with the relationship. Otherwords, when we hit Episode II, ten years have passed since they last seen each other. Anikan would be ten years older, and Padame would be ten years older. Thus, Anikan would be twenty and Padame would be twenty-six.

Now, Padame was responsible for the fate of her planet, so I am guessing to say that she was eighteenish in Episode I. Therefore, she would be about twenty-eight by Episode II, and then thirdy by Episode III. Anikan would be twenty-three by Episode III.

The age issue and maturity level would not make any sense. Females are known to date older men. The story is just unbelieveable. If Anikan was only a few years younger, the story would make sense to me.

If Padame was responsible for a planet at the age of sixteen, that would make no sense at all in any logical thinking. She would have to be around eighteenish.

What a bloody mess.



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Old 02-16-2007, 06:25 PM   #23
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I had a few problems with Episodes I & II. I didn't like Jar Jar in Episode I, at all. I also thought Anakins character was a bit too silly, but I guess back when I saw the movie for the first time I didn't think that since I was around his age.

I had some problems with the dialog in AotC.

"The thought of not being with youóI can't breathe."

But I liked Episode III a lot, its probably my favorite in the saga. I definitely still prefer the originals overall though.


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Old 02-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
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If Padame was responsible for a planet at the age of sixteen, that would make no sense at all in any logical thinking. She would have to be around eighteenish.
According to the Star Wars databank she was 14 when she was elected Queen. So the age difference is not that great, but the maturity difference would be huge.


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Old 02-16-2007, 06:36 PM   #25
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Episode III made up for a lot of **** in Ep I and II, but I still enjoy the new trilogy overall...Highlights for me:
Kickass lightsaber action (Maul, Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace, etc...)
Yoda PWNS!
Maul vs Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in Ep I
Arena battle in Ep II
Space battle in Ep III



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Old 02-16-2007, 06:39 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by mimartin
According to the Star Wars databank she was 14 when she was elected Queen. So the age difference is not that great, but the maturity difference would be huge.
Why would you be put in charge of a planet at the age of fourteen? That is illogical from my perspective.



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Old 02-16-2007, 06:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCorp
Why would you be put in charge of a planet at the age of fourteen? That is illogical from my perspective.
Who knows, but I do remember her being that old in the movie.


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Old 02-16-2007, 09:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCorp
Why would you be put in charge of a planet at the age of fourteen? That is illogical from my perspective.
That's something that's always stood out in my mind which highlights the not-quite-fully-thought-through nature of the prequel trilogy. Especially the fact that she was elected. Are the people of Naboo retarded or something? "Well, we're going to the polls next week to choose our planet's leader! Who to pick...who to pick...well, I guess we could pick one of these politicians and/or statesmen/women on the ballot who have decades of experience behind them in Galactic politics and can fully appreciate the complexities of their office...but y'know, I've got a really good feeling about this 14 year-old girl over here...!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by MdKnightR
I am not a spring chicken either. I was 6 years old when A New Hope was released and I still like the Prequels better.
...

You really should make sure you leave some windows open before you try painting the room you're in, dude...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCorp
If I had to give an order to how I liked the films, it would appear like this:

1. Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Return of the Jedi

3. Revenge of the Sith

4. Attack of the Clones

5. The Phantom Menace
There we go. This is the proper order. Only RotS needs to be just a shade lower than Jedi just because of its place in the OT pantheon, Luke's Aunt Beru/SuperCuts hairdo nonwithstanding.


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Old 02-16-2007, 11:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
My opinion is that if the love story between Padme and Anakin would have been more believable then Anakinís surrender to the darkside would have been more believable. Like EagerWeasel said George Lucas didnít do a very good job with the love story dialog. This failure in the Episodes II and III sold short the belief that Anakin would give up everything good in him and around him to save her. If you are under the belief that they were so in love, then his doing whatever he could to save her makes sense, especially after what happen to his mother and the brush off Yoda gave him. At least Palpatine was sympatric to his problem and gave him some hope (even if it was only a lie). Yodaís advice just sucked.
I agree with the first half and disagree with the second... I think Yoda's advice was good, and you have to remember Yoda didn't know that Anakin was married or the level of attachment where as Anakin had told Palpatine everything; Anakin falling to the DS was mostly his fault, he didn't seek Obi-Wans help/advice about Padme. It amused me when Anakin was complaining to Padme about the council not trusting him... considering he was doing stuff which means they had good reason not to trust him, he also didnt seek his wifes help. It is finally very arrogant to think you can change the future, as taking the course of action you did could be the cause of things.

I enjoyed the PT but thought the OT was better. I think the PT should have been better done, e.g. I think there is too much of a gap between PM and AotC, as we miss alot of Anakin growing up. I also think we should have seen alot more of the Clone Wars. It also annoyed me that in the Cartoons Grevious was made out to be amazing took on 7 Jedi on his own and kicked there asses yet Obi-Wan could take him down on his own... If anyone was going to take Grevious down on his own it should have been Yoda, and I really would have liked to have seen the Green dude kick some ass!! I think the prequels were good, but could have been so much more!

My order is;

1. ESB
2. ROTS
3= ANH
3= ROTJ
5= AotC
5= PM

Personally I think the ESB is clearly the best of the saga and has everything you would want of any film!!



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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Old 02-17-2007, 01:27 AM   #30
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That's something that's always stood out in my mind which highlights the not-quite-fully-thought-through nature of the prequel trilogy. Especially the fact that she was elected. Are the people of Naboo retarded or something? "Well, we're going to the polls next week to choose our planet's leader! Who to pick...who to pick...well, I guess we could pick one of these politicians and/or statesmen/women on the ballot who have decades of experience behind them in Galactic politics and can fully appreciate the complexities of their office...but y'know, I've got a really good feeling about this 14 year-old girl over here...!"


How I would Have Done It::

::: SORRY FOR THE GRAMMAR, FOR I WAS IN A HURRY. :::

Episode I :: The Clone Wars
Within this context of this movie, Anikan starts off as a eighteen year old Padawan. Padame is a seventeen year old daughter of a senator. Some how they cross paths, and they start flirting. During the background story, the Senate meet to find a solution for an up comming threat. As a result of planets falling to hell, they hire a clone army from Kamino(sp?). At the end of the episode, war has began to stretch out across the galaxy.

:: Qui-Gon finds Anikan as a slave, but he never talks about his family. Some how Obi-Wan the Padawan gains Anikan as his apprentice, and you see Obi-Wan become a Jedi Knight at the end of the Episode.

Episode II :: Revenge of The Sith
Within the context of this movie, Anikan is around twenty-one years old. During this episode Anikan is going through the Jedi Trials, so he can become a Jedi Knight. Padame who has just turned ninteen is being held hostage by Palpatine (Unknowingly). With the Clone Wars raging on behind the scenes, Anikan is have nightmares of how his parents died. A Sith Apprentice of Palpatine is seen torturing Padema. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Anikan show up for a rescue. It turns out that there are two Apprentices of Palpatine. Darth Maul and Darth Someone Else (Possible A Female). During the fight scene, Qui-Gon gets cut down, and Anikan starts an emotional breakdown. Since he has built a connection to Qui-Gon, Anikan's emotions flare up, and with his first taste of hatred he kills off Darth Maul. Obi-Wan is seen killing off the other Sith. Once Padame is rescued from the Sith, (Palpatine still hidding his true self), Anikan and Padame fall into their forbiden love. The babe in distress falls in love with her rescuer.

:: After a few twist and turns, Anikan starts to build a bond with Palpatine. This occurs after Qui-Gon is dead. When Episode II comes to an end, Obi-Wan accidently passes by an open door, which he over hears Anikan being seduced by an unknown Sith's seduction to the darkside. Ends in betrayal, and the Sith have their revenge.

Episode III :: Dark Days
Anikan is at the edge of becoming a Jedi Master, but he has been refused by the Jedi Council. Within this movie's context, Anikan is about 23/24 years old. Padame is around 22/23 years old, and she is at the start of her government career. It gets revealed that Anikan and Padame have been seeing each other for the past two to three years. Padame reveals to Anikan that she is pregnant. Anikan is plagued with nightmares about his parents' death. You learn that Anikan himself killed his family, and the seed of hatred started years ago. Obi-Wan has been a Jedi Master for a few years, and has been quietly talking to the council about Anikan's behavior.

:: Palpatine feeds on Anikan's hatred, and makes him turn half-way through the movie. Before that dramatic fight between Obi-Wan and Anikan, you find Anikan killing off Jedi Knights and Padawans throughout the movie. He is sent on Sithish style missions by Palpatine, and is order to remove the Jedi from the galaxy. Obi-Wan and Yoda find out in time, so they can deal with the issue. Mace gets killed by Anikan in a duel, and Yoda walks in on a scene where Palpatine and Anikan are standing over the body. Yoda force-throws Anikan aside, and starts to duel with Palpatine. Yoda has to do some serious damage, which causes Palpatine to look the way he is. (Yoda and Palpatine's fight ends with no-one seriously damaged. Yoda needs to do something that rules.)

By the time the movie is over, Anikan is in his Vader suit (add that fight scene George made for Anikan and Obi-Wan), Padame is holding her daughter while hidding in Senator Organa's home. (<-- This explains why Lea remembers her face, for Padema dies while Lea is growing up.) At some point in the movie, Anikan is told by Palpatine that she is dead, and she was killed by Obi-Wan. (<--- This triggers the fight between Anikan and Obi-Wan) At the end, Obi-Wan takes Luke to Tantooine. Everyone is in hidding, and the episode ends.

::: SORRY FOR THE GRAMMAR, FOR I WAS IN A HURRY. :::



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2004-2008

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Old 02-17-2007, 04:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by MacCorp
The age issue and maturity level would not make any sense. Females are known to date older men. The story is just unbelieveable. If Anikan was only a few years younger, the story would make sense to me.
.
But females are also known to date younger men...my wife is 11.5 years older than I am.

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Old 02-18-2007, 07:26 PM   #32
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Don't feel bad, Mac. All of the old farts (except one) and some of the youngsters agree with you. I've finally gotten over my bitter disappointment concerning the whole prequel debacle, so I will choose not to bash the prequels in this post. They sucked. Oops! I guess I'm still recovering.

I wouldn't mind owning remastered, anamorphic, but otherwise unaltered versions of the OT on DVD, though.

BTW: Your list of best to worst is perfect.


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Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 02-18-2007, 08:05 PM   #33
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This is what I would call an undead topic. It's just like asking people who is the better hero, Batman or Spider-Man, who is stronger, Superman or The Hulk, etc.

As always, beauty lies in the eye of the beholder, so discussing which movies are "better" is fairly pointless, if done for the sake of establishing anything definite. At best I can see it become no more than an exchange of what people thought of the various movies. That said, my order of preference:

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Phantom Menace

I tend to prefer the original trilogy, but like most "old-timers" that's probably just because I associate them with a point of my life that I've just moved beyond now - I was MUCH more impressionable and receptive to these movies when the original trilogy came out, while at the time of the new trilogy, I had long since grown into lovable critical skeptic that I am now.

That said, JarJar really is annoying. Lucas seem to have gotten the message too, because JarJar is hardly in Ep. II at all, and he doesn't even get to speak in Ep. III.

RotJ goes down far on the list, however, because it was so unoriginal. I still recall going out of the cinema all those years ago thinking "that was it?" Sure, it was incredible space battles and so (for its day). But other than that, hardly anything original happened - the empire chases the rebels, the rebels attack the Death Star (back from the dead by popular demand...), Luke duels Vader, the droids walk around in the desert, etc. Add the wonderful idea of all the heroes being captured by a bunch of muppets and it's not exactly a bed of roses. Especially since the ending made no sense - the point of the trilogy was to train Luke so that he could defeat Vader and the emperor. But what's the point if the Death Star is going to be destroyed with all of them on it anyway? I realise that people say it has since been retconned to say that Palpatine had battle meditation and so would have destroyed the rebel fleet, but Lucas did NOT write that into the original plot. Indeed, battle meditation did not exist until Tom Veitch (often criticized for the 'cloned emperor', yet not praised for this) created it... for Nomi Sunrider... a full decade later.

Revenge of the Sith goes up, even though Hayden Christensen did play awfully. I do credit Lucas with making his two trilogies fit together very well - there are no inconsistencies left over between episodes III and IV that spring to mind, and so it all does fit together as a whole. I do wish we had seen more of the armored Vader in Ep. III, though.

I also like Ep. II because it's decent mystery that turns into full scale war. But it could be that I just can't shake the feeling that it was finally Star Wars after seeing Ep. I. And I do like Palpatine in Ep. II: "I love democracy... I love the republic..."

Ep. I was terrible, though. Anakin was just too young, and JarJar was just... [censored]

The original movie set the bar, of course, and had lots of energy and adventure to it.

But "Empire Strikes Back" will always be the masterpiece to me and the only Star Wars film to ever creep into my list of favorite movies. I can watch those last 40 minutes over and over endless times without ever growing tired of it - it's just that good and haunting. You just can't beat, "No, Luke. *I* am your father!" It's among the best moments in movie history ever, if you ask me, and I'm actually sad for those who did not get to experience the full dose of it in the cinema. I mean, Luke has his hand chopped off AND learns that Vader's his father?!? It's just too shocking in such a nice little space fantasy. It moved Star Wars into the epic for me.


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Old 02-19-2007, 11:53 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Why would you be put in charge of a planet at the age of fourteen? That is illogical from my perspective.
Keep in mind that there have been countless rulers on earth that have been that age or younger.

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Old 02-19-2007, 02:14 PM   #35
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Keep in mind that there have been countless rulers on earth that have been that age or younger.
While this is true, Prime, how many were elected? It would have made far more sense if she had been a hereditary monarch. I actually thought that this was the case until the scene in the senate chamber when Palpatine introduced her as the "recently elected ruler of the Naboo." It made absolutely no sense to me.


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Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:18 PM   #36
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Star Wars has achieved the status of long-running gag as far as my life. One of my earliest memories was standing in a line five blocks long to go see Return of the Jedi, being propped up on cushions Mom took from the sofa, and sitting in a theater crammed to the gills.

FlI was a die-hard Trekkie, emphasis on DS9, when I started college, but I got furious over the Dominion war ("Why the frell are they trying to rip off Bab 5 rather than playing up the things they kick B5's @ss at?"), what they passed off as Worf (all the classic symptoms of a Marty Sam), and the fan politics - admitting that I was chucking a LOT of napalm.

I was jonesing for an RP, so my sis introduces me to her pals and their Saturday night Star Wars game. Enter my intro to the fact that SW's canon is HUGE. ("You mean everyone in that cantina has a name, species name, backstory, and reason for being there?") I didn't want to touch that universe - WAY too big and intimidating. Anyway, every Saturday I became a Mon Calamari medic under a GM who played Star Wars with a Red Dwarf sense of humor.

The gamers, aside from me, decide they want to be roomies so they don't have to break up their SW game, and to be among fellow geeks. This created something of a campus legend. One of the adventures was cramming close to a dozen people VERY illegally in a compact Subaru and seeing Special Edition. Another adventure was a "Star Wars Rock Opera" done up by the local fan club where we brought home half of the paper-mache Death Star. My brother in law met my sister at a science fiction convention. Their first date? Phantom Menace, 12: 01 showing. They meet their best man in the lobby. My twin's former roomies were "Bride's Men" at her wedding and "serenaded" them with the Imperial March on kazoo at the dinner.

So, given that...

Episode 1? I rather liked it. Jar Jar was useless and had too much screen time, but everything else worked. The moment I heard MacGregor's delivery on "You were right, master. The negotiations were short," it established that the fellow was indeed channelling Alec Guinness. I saw Queen Amidala, and...ok, that explains Leia. I walked out with chills realizing every last character unwittingly signed their death certificate at the end.

Episode 2 left a rotten taste in my mouth. I file the Jedi Order in with the Ol-Zaahn, Psi-Corps, and the Symbiosis Commission with some of the worst aspects of all three. They were sl blinded by their prophesy and their self-righteousness they couldn't find their butts with two hands and a map, nor could they see that their "chosen one" was an arrogant brat. However, I could hardly blame Anakin for fraying at the seams. The Force tortures him for months with visions of his mom, he can't do a bloody thing about it, and he arrives hours too late? The freedom he won in the podrace must have looked like - and was - an utter joke. And in her own way, Amidala was also a slave - more of a symbol than a person.

Episode 3? Well, my sister cracked "I went to a production of Othello and a saber duel broke out." KOTOR coloring my view of Star Wars in general, I kept hearing the characters having a running commentary in my head.


Carth and Canderous (in unison): The grand army of the Republic is made up of WHAT?!

Jolee: Damn it. I KNEW it would come to this!

HK-47: Commentary: For a meatbag, Palpatine is very efficient.

Atton: Gassing them, check. Shooting them. Check. Yeah, they're at least doing it right.

Mical (angry): Proud of them, aren't you? And the children?

Atton: *shrug* Sorry, Mike. But you should know better than anyone that even a half-trained Jedi kid is a problem.

Mical: And in the end, the Sith or the Jedi fight the same insane war over and over...What is the point of it all?

Kreia: There is none. There is only the Force and its diabolocal notion of balance.


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Old 02-20-2007, 02:29 AM   #37
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Well, I generally watch Star Wars for the Jedi (read: lightsaber battles)

so my love of the movies is generally limited to which duels were the best.

In which case:

ROTS (tie)
TPM (tie)
ROTJ
ESB
AOTC
ANH

TPM ties ROTS cause of The Maul. Plus, I love politics so all the political dialogue and intrigue was fine with me.




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Old 02-20-2007, 04:09 AM   #38
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whoa, mirror universe post time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
How is it up there on the high horse?

EDIT: In answer to your question: the NJO and the effects thereof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astro
How is it up there on the high horse?

EDIT: In answer to your question : the most unsavoury parts of EU have been:

1. Comic crotch bulges and retconning
2. Jaina and Zekk's weirdness with the ant people..
3. Children of the Jedi (the book)

Other than that, I love SW EU, though I hav eto admit I am taking a break from it atm......


*runs off with goatee bearded spock*

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Old 02-20-2007, 01:09 PM   #39
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I see that I am going to have to coe up with a sure fire vacination or remedy for the effects of Star Wars. I might have to go into specifics depending on the demand and what I have readily available. Let's see...

*going to the lab dedicated to the proposition that Star Wars is a legitimate means to escaping reality*

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Old 02-23-2007, 06:52 PM   #40
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Ep 1. Jake Lloyd's Young Ani was much, much more annoying than Jar Jar ever was. I'm sure the idea of Ani that young was to show his innocent roots, but I wish they made him older (and therefore less annoying) The fights were awesome, everything was fresh, and I was 10 when it came out. I loved this film then, and it still has its moments now.

Ep. 2. Lacks... everywhere. Frustrated Ani is still less annoying than Jake Lloyd, but the badly executed scripting/acting/most things leaves him not relatable enough to win the audience over. There is very little cohesion between Ani or Obi either, and their relationship seems too strained. The Ani/Padme love story was forced seemingly because it HAD to happen. No chemisty at all. The action was good until the (anti)climaxing lightsaber duels. Short, uninteresting, and Yoda... meh.

III made many, many improvements over the previous two. I can name only a couple of moments where the acting made me cringe (NNNNOOOOO springs to mind lol) The much needed friendship between Obi and Ani is there, and Anakin is likable enough JUST in time so when he falls there is actually some sympathy toward him. Grevous died too easily which always distracts me, and Yoda wasn't given a very dignified final fight. The film is action packed though, and the climactic final battle is awesome.

The prequels are patchy but III is good and the lightsaber fight in ep I is still awesome. For those reasons alone the films were worth it. Although not te best writer/director; Lucas is a hell of a visionary. The films are gorgeos to look at.

III > IV imo

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