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Old 03-08-2007, 06:53 PM   #1
NateDogg
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Who would you want as President first (Democratic Candidates).

Alright we had an intresting debate on this in school today.

The topic of the debate is would you want to have an African American (I.E. Obama) or a women (I.E. Hilary Clinton) president. Also who would you choose if you had to vote for Obama or Hilary Clinton in 2008.

I said that if I had to choose between them I'd vote for Obama, and I think that we need to get both a women and a African American into office and get it behind us and move on. African American's and Women are now officially thw White Man's equal but, some people disagree. What do you all think about this?
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Old 03-08-2007, 06:56 PM   #2
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I don't think it matters whether they are black or female or not, as long as the person is competent.



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Old 03-08-2007, 07:04 PM   #3
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This is a great topic that I've been discussing with my friends for a few weeks now. The following is a summary of my thoughts about prevalent prejudices. They are not my prejudices.

Personally, I think that the American public will elect a black male before they will elect a white female. The most recent poll numbers that I've seen give Hillary an advantage, however I think this will turn in Obama's favor as the primaries get closer.

It's not that I don't think that female (or specifically a white female) is not capable of doing the job. I do think that national prejudices show that a lot of people think this way though.
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Old 03-08-2007, 07:14 PM   #4
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Personally I do care about skin color or gender. I care about what the core beliefs of the person running. I would vote for somebody J.C. Watts or Lynne Cheney long before any one that did not represent my core beliefs.


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Old 03-08-2007, 07:14 PM   #5
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The topic of the debate is would you want to have an African American (I.E. Obama) or a women (I.E. Hilary Clinton) president. Also who would you choose if you had to vote for Obama or Hilary Clinton in 2008.
African American president (according to conservatives, Hilary was the power behind the throne in the 1990's, so techincally, she already got a turn at president). Race is not important, but I think Blacks should have a turn on running our country.

And, who would I vote for in case the Republican party decides to fold over and the Democratic Party spilts up into Obama and Hilirary factions...

Hilirary. She has enough experience (because according to the Conservatives, she was President). Obama sounds to me to be another Kenendny, and I hate the Kenendys with a passion, since they are charasmatic individuals that do, well, nothing. I prefer a smart and intelligent person to run our nation, and not a person that walks on water.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-08-2007, 09:40 PM   #6
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Obama's not getting in the door in his wildest dreams. A mulatto Democrat from Hawaii via Chicago whose last name is one letter away from "Osama". Yeah, the Red States will vote for him. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

The first black US president will be:
a) Republican
b) From the Southern or Eastern states; probably the Southeast
c) Deeply religious
d) Deeply conservative socially
e) In all likelihood, the biggest oreo you've ever seen.


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Old 03-08-2007, 09:53 PM   #7
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Obama's not getting in the door in his wildest dreams. A mulatto Democrat from Hawaii via Chicago whose last name is one letter away from "Osama". Yeah, the Red States will vote for him. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.
The goal is not to get the Red States to vote for him, but to sway the Blue States to vote for Obama. That, and the Swing States.

Remember, it's the Swing States that decide who win elections.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-09-2007, 12:37 PM   #8
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Being a woman, I am in favor of having the first woman be president. It was a landmark when one decided to run for VP way back in the 90's I believe. It would be an even bigger landmark if one makes it to the presidency. Yes competency is a desired trait in any leadership and I have a serious bias that women can be better at the competence part than their male counterparts in many cases. Senator Clinton would be a good president in my opinion since she seems the kind not to take crap from people.

Having a woman president is good but to have one who is Hispanic and Catholic would be something else. Kennedy was teh first Roman Catholic president and only one so far. To have a woman who is a minority and a Catholic would be like the fourth of July. In today's male dominated society, this would be a big stepping stone for anyone out there who dreams of something better, especially us women.

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Old 03-09-2007, 01:54 PM   #9
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So far it looks like the only real candidates are Clinton and Obama. Obama's brilliant and pretty clean, and I think he'll do a good job, but I don't know that it would be good for him to seek the seat right now--he could use some more seasoning in the Senate, build ties there, and build money connections.

I think Clinton's probably got the better chance at the nomination simply because she's going to be able to raise so much more for her war chest than any other candidate, she appeals to anyone who liked Bill, and she'll get the woman vote.

Edwards is a distant third, but I was really impressed with him in the last election cycle, especially after Dean shot himself in the foot.


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Old 03-09-2007, 01:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
especially after Dean shot himself in the foot.
Dean doesn't have too many feet left to spare... he keeps shooting them so much lately

Isn't he up to 3 major goofs now or has he exceeded the tally since I last kept track...


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Old 03-09-2007, 02:34 PM   #11
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Personally I don’t care about the race or sex of the president as long as that person is really qualified. I’d like to see a woman president and an African American president before I die. Really I’d like to see an African American woman president before I die.

Out of Clinton and Obama, I’ll vote Clinton. Just because I believe she has more experience to bring to the office. Obama just does not seem to have the necessary experience at this time (Although he already has more experience for the office than a certain former Texas Governor when he took office as President). I like Obama and he could get my vote in the future with more experience in the Senate provided he keeps his values.

Really I just want to see Bill Clinton as the first lady.


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Old 03-09-2007, 03:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Being a woman, I am in favor of having the first woman be president. It was a landmark when one decided to run for VP way back in the 90's.
Actually it was 84 with the Mondull and Geraldine Feraro ticket.


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Old 03-09-2007, 04:17 PM   #13
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^^^Thank you for that correction. My point being that I am in favor of a woman being president for the above reasons that I stated.

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Old 03-09-2007, 06:11 PM   #14
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I'd have to watch the two carefully, and either way it would be wonderful for them to become President. But at the moment I think Obama is a better leader of people, he is better at getting people to support him, and Hilary has her husband's terms in office that can drag her down (things like drug and sex scandals) so at this point in time I would vote for Obama, but really I think I'd be happy with either of them.
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Being a woman, I am in favor of having the first woman be president.
And if the more competent candidate is a man...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
It was a landmark when one decided to run for VP way back in the 90's I believe.
Wrong date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Yes competency is a desired trait in any leadership and I have a serious bias that women can be better at the competence part than their male counterparts in many cases.
Such as...?

Personally, the whole "get a woman President, get a black President" movement is extremely irritating to me. Their gender and race is totally irrelevant - why having a different type of body means in terms of worthiness to lead a country, I have no idea. If the best candidate was a white man (which IMO the best one currently is), I'd vote for him. If the best candidate was a black woman, I'd vote for her. But voting for the mere fact that that person is black or is a woman? The idea leaves me aghast at the thought that what a person looks like should be considered more important than their actions.

If women were on average were better than men at politics, you arguments would have some merit... However, I have seen no evidence that is so. The best politicians of past and present were men, IMO.

But that's not to say they were better simply because they were men... It's their competence which makes me of that opinion.

In short, there's no reason to go about praising a woman being President unless she can do a better job. Otherwise that's just as stupid as racism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Senator Clinton would be a good president in my opinion since she seems the kind not to take crap from people.
Quite...

"If George Bush doesn't end the war before he leaves office, when I'm president, I will!"

Yes, she certainly doesn't take crap from people. Waaay too little, IMO.

Personally, I'd consider Hillary one of the worst candidates after the accusations of anti-semitic comments, disguised bribery (cattle futures contracts anyone?), the whitewater controversy, the travel office firings, the "conversations" with Eleanor Roosevelt...

Yes, the fact that she's a woman certainly offsets all that.

On topic: I'm more in favor the Republicans this time, for once. Obama's not quite as bad as Hillary, though he can't compare with Guliani or McCain IMO. But that's for the Republican candidates topic...


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Old 03-09-2007, 09:24 PM   #16
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If women were on average were better than men at politics, you arguments would have some merit... However, I have seen no evidence that is so. The best politicians of past and present were men, IMO.
That's because MOST politicans of the past and present were men. If most politicans of the past and present were women, then by the sheer numbers and laws of averages, at least some of them will be considered "best".

Still, criticize politicans on their beliefs, not on their gender or race. After all, total equailty in the political arena means that we should love/hate each side equally, no (It really doesn't matter, total love for everyone is the same as total hate for everyone...it has no meaning)? i think I remember reading that there is a race between Obama and Hiliary for the Black Vote...and Hiliary was once in the lead. Not pertiant though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here

Last edited by SilentScope001; 03-09-2007 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 03-09-2007, 10:08 PM   #17
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@Mace--so far, people in the US aren't dumb enough to confuse Obama and Osama. Well, most of us, anyway.


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Old 03-10-2007, 04:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
@Mace--so far, people in the US aren't dumb enough to confuse Obama and Osama. Well, most of us, anyway.
CNN's done it. Another media outlet called him Osama a few weeks ago...can't remember where I heard it, but when Obama's camp was told about this latest "typo", they replied that it was funny how often that typo gets made these days considering that the S and B keys aren't all that close together on the keyboard.


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Old 03-10-2007, 04:21 PM   #19
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****, I was afraid of this: people trying to bring down Obama based on their name. Next they'll play the race and sex card, you watch, people will say that because Obama's black he should or shouldn't be President.
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Old 03-10-2007, 05:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
CNN's done it. Another media outlet called him Osama a few weeks ago...can't remember where I heard it, but when Obama's camp was told about this latest "typo", they replied that it was funny how often that typo gets made these days considering that the S and B keys aren't all that close together on the keyboard.
They misspell his name, to be sure, but they don't attribute Osama's activities to Obama.

I'm betting Osama's on the auto-correct feature on the computer, and people aren't catching it.


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Old 03-10-2007, 05:36 PM   #21
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I'm with the 'competence > race/gender' camp. If you're voting for someone based on what he is rather than who he is, you shouldn't be voting at all, IMHO.

And why doesn't anyone talk about who the first Asian president will be?

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Old 03-10-2007, 05:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucination
And why doesn't anyone talk about who the first Asian president will be?
Considering I don't recall ever seeing an Asian candidate, I imagine that would be a pretty quick conversation.

Guy A: "Hey, who should our first Asian president be?"
Guy B: "I dunno".
Guy A: "Me neither".
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:29 PM   #23
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RE-Race Card: If you accept the hypothesis that the first humans was born on the contient of Africa...

Then we already got the first African American President (George Washigniton). And the second...and the third...etc.

Hm. Maybe Hilary should play her race card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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