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Old 03-15-2007, 12:00 AM   #1
Jacen Stargazer
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Revan or the Exile

I had an idea that you could play K3 as Revan or the Exile. How, you ask? While it may not be universally accepted, Revan is canonically male and the Exile is canonically female. Perhaps you would chose being Revan if you played the game male, or the Exile if you play female, perhaps having your counterpart in your starting party. Or he/she could have died on a mission with you, and you alone must face the Sith.
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:22 AM   #2
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No!

Unpopular, and it makes the game canon! Many people hate canon because it gets rid of our choices! In K2, they allowed us to choose who Revan was, so there's no need for canon!

Besides, the stories of Revan and Exile are told. Time to tell a new story.


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Old 03-15-2007, 09:53 AM   #3
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We have to be a whole new character, Revan + Exile have had there games, let someone else have a go. I wouldn't mind some interaction though.

I personally don't mind canon as I only play K1 as LSM, Besides any KOTOR is good KOTOR! its been so long, If you had to play as a Kinrath I'd be happy.


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Old 03-15-2007, 10:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
No!

Unpopular, and it makes the game canon! Many people hate canon because it gets rid of our choices! In K2, they allowed us to choose who Revan was, so there's no need for canon!
I agree with that one but not with that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Besides, the stories of Revan and Exile are told. Time to tell a new story.
The stories aren't told yet, there's a lot more to tell about them, so there should be a new char with his own story but the story has to be connected with the stories of the exile and revan (maybe they should be party members or whatever...)

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Originally Posted by adamqd
I personally don't mind canon as I only play K1 as LSM, Besides any KOTOR is good KOTOR! its been so long, If you had to play as a Kinrath I'd be happy.

Yeah! thats the right attitude! KotOR is KotOR anyway!!!


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Old 03-15-2007, 11:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Palamides
I agree with that one but not with that:



The stories aren't told yet, there's a lot more to tell about them, so there should be a new char with his own story but the story has to be connected with the stories of the exile and revan (maybe they should be party members or whatever...)
I want to play the Exile!


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Old 03-15-2007, 12:34 PM   #6
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I think K3 should have a new pc, but I also think that person should find Revan and Exile and that the end of the game should see them split into three groups similar to how the exile splits his group on Dxun, so that you have a climax where Revan, exile and the new pc lead a group each.

Revan and exile should be in the game, but since they are so powerful now, they should not be playable until late in the game.


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Old 03-15-2007, 12:48 PM   #7
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I love both games, but I'd like to play a new character in K3.


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Old 03-15-2007, 02:00 PM   #8
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I don't particularly like either of them, having a DS option to kill them both would be lovely.


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Old 03-15-2007, 02:05 PM   #9
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NO! Absolutely no!

I would hate it if canon influenced the devs. I don't like the idea of my choices from the previous games being cast aside as if they never occurred. I do believe that there should be a canon story for everything, but I don't want canon to be involved with the story of any KotOR game.


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Old 03-22-2007, 04:18 AM   #10
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I think
a) Your pc has to be a new character. Not only are there gameplay issues regarding the "levels" Revan and Exile should have making them too overpowered for an entire game, but the player's interaction with the plot becomes extremely limited the more you force him or her into a canonical character and/or storyline. You'd not be playing *your character* but rather the characters of Revan and Exile (although you played them in the previous games they were still *your character* because the purpose of the games was in part to "discover" your character, but that's done now). You might as well be playing as Anakin in the Revenge of the Sith action game on Xbox for all the freedom you'd have.

b) The Revan and Exile storylines are not yet complete, and therefore, being the main characters in the previous two games, require a good deal of coverage in the final game of the saga. However, making them canon-based joinable NPCs throws poodoo in the face of everyone who played Revan and Exile in their own way in KotOR and TSL.

c) The best option IMO is to involve Revan and Exile in the story through contact with other joinable NPCs. "CHARNAME, I just received word from Revan that the Sith are on the move in Beta Sector. He/she (this can be sorted out in the same way as in TSL) claims that they have located a weapon that can amplify Force powers and must be stopped at all costs." I could even forsee them meeting their fate in the game "CHARNAME, this is Admiral Carth Onassi on the deck of the Defiance. I have Revan and the Exile on board. We will meet you at the rendevous...wait, what's that?! They came out of nowhere!!!! Increase forward firepower!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! <hologram blinks out>"
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:11 AM   #11
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sounds good but some contact would be better like holograms(more personal) not other people like u dont see the emporer in sw3 sending some clone to tell anakin to go do this or that do u
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by azzakabaz
sounds good but some contact would be better like holograms(more personal) not other people like u dont see the emporer in sw3 sending some clone to tell anakin to go do this or that do u
The problem is that given that every player has their own Revan and Exile, you couldn't really do a hologram of them directly. They look (and would sound) different depending on whether they were boy or girl and what face you chose, even how you decided to play them and what they wore...if you threw them in generic Jedi robes it would ruin the emersion. I suppose they could let the player design Revan and Exile at startup, so that when either meet you it's the Revan or Exile you designed that you meet, but that adds programming complications. Not to mention that while your LS Exile was a happy-go-lucky guy who saw the best in all of his companions, mine found them annoying, but necessary to stopping the Sith. How do you incorporate that into into the game's dialogue? If you give them generic dialogue, it's little better than forcing a canonical Revan or Exile on the player whether they got to design their look or not. Forcing Revan or Exile onto the player in any fashion could really be a lot more trouble than it's worth IMO.

The best option IMO is just to keep them one step removed from the story. Obviously they have to be there in some fashion but there is nothing that takes place in KotOR or TSL that absolutely requires the player to interact with them in KotOR 3. With a new PC/main character, there's no reason to suppose that they will even have priveleged contact, at the outset, with the high-ups organizing the effort to fight the Sith, let alone Revan or the Exile.

The possibilities are so many at this point that speculation is almost worthless...for example, consider the case where Revan and the Exile kidnapped your character and placed you in the hands of the (Exile's?) Jedi for training, detailed in the opening crawl of the game. They then took a small force to organize a resistance while you were being trained on Dantooine or Coruscant. During your training one of the Masters comes up to you and tells you that they received a distress signal from Revan and Exile somewhere near Planet XYZ, and you and your co-apprentice are being sent to investigate. Of course you get there only to find out that Revan and Exile had been captured and taken to the Sith "Homeworld". At the end of the game you see a cutscene of two robed and hooded figures dueling with the Dark Lord of the Sith from the end of a long hallway who kills them before you can join in the battle. The duo had escaped, but met their doom at the hands of the one who would rule the galaxy, because, of course, you are the only one who can stop him. To me that says plenty of Revan and Exile without them ever having to interact with your character *during the game*. And that's just one of thousands of scenarios with that premise that can be concocted.

Will avoiding direct involvement of Revan and Exile in the PC's story disappoint A LOT of Revan and Exile fanboys and fangals? Sure, but then catering to fanboyism over what can be done sensibly to make everybody content with how things turned out is rarely the way to go IMO.
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Old 03-22-2007, 04:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Stark
The problem is that given that every player has their own Revan and Exile, you couldn't really do a hologram of them directly. They look (and would sound) different depending on whether they were boy or girl and what face you chose, even how you decided to play them and what they wore...
So what? If necessary you could just let the player choose their faces/genders/alignments/classes/whatever. They already did some of that for Revan in TSL. Also, you could have them both wear masks, as Revan did in pre-KotOR1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Stark
Not to mention that while your LS Exile was a happy-go-lucky guy who saw the best in all of his companions, mine found them annoying, but necessary to stopping the Sith. How do you incorporate that into into the game's dialogue?
Same way you did in TSL - you dodge the issue. How often did you want to tell Kreia to go space herself (and help her do it, too)? How many times did you feel like taking G0T0 to the junkyard or tell Disciple what you really thought of him? Could you do any of those things? No, you couldn't. Some people like Kreia (like me) and some people hate her (like me), but it would have little or no influence on your conversation options with, and you certainly couldn't chop her other hand off with your lightsaber either... So why this would be a problem in KotOR3 I have no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Stark
Will avoiding direct involvement of Revan and Exile in the PC's story disappoint A LOT of Revan and Exile fanboys and fangals? Sure, but then catering to fanboyism over what can be done sensibly to make everybody content with how things turned out is rarely the way to go IMO.
The problem isn't just fanboyism, though. You trivialize the matter if you say that wanting Revan and exile in KotOR3 equals that. The problem is that Revan and exile were left alive and said to be important in the ultimate struggle against the true Sith. That's what we were told, and while they could die in KotOR3, they could not do so as a matter of course, because it would violate the contract signed at the end of TSL that said they would be significant in the succeeding plot. How significant are they if they're just casually killed the evil true Sith, only to see your new character kill the true Sith subsequently? None at all. If that happens, the plotwriters have abused the plot and the characters! They will not have fulfilled their part of the promise that these characters would be significant again. I don't mind killing good characters. I do mind lazy storytelling.


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Old 03-22-2007, 05:19 PM   #14
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No way! No canon! There's always a way around without taking away our choices. The game should stay as open as the other two. And that's all I have to say about that.


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Old 03-22-2007, 07:25 PM   #15
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Would it be possible at all to have Revan and the Exile appear as fully fleshed out and voiced characters at all, that you could speak with, interact with like a proper character? Based on conversations about them they could appear light sided, dark sided, male, female, and have opinions of the Mandalorian Wars and the Sith. For example Revan could praise you for being light sided, or being strong, or chatise you for the unnessecary evil acts you do. Or Exile could lay claim that the Mandalorians had to be fought, or it was wrong to go to war, depending on conversations you had prior to meeting her.
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Old 03-23-2007, 02:56 AM   #16
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yer what nancy allen and jediphila said do it liek they did in kotor 2 with reven conversation before u meet them but in this case u actauly do and reven can have his/her mask thing and the exile can be liek aninja mask thing(just think would look kool lol i like ninjas) fixes faces
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:19 AM   #17
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Oh, and ignore the followers, leaving those to the imagination would be nice also. Well, then we can conveniently forget followers that we hate. No one would like the fatone joining the party again, ever.

Though a detail depiction about the long and painful demise of a scumbag known as Mical is welcomed.

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Old 03-23-2007, 10:15 AM   #18
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New character, and do not meet either Revan or the Exile in person. Problems solved.

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Old 03-23-2007, 11:22 AM   #19
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No Revan or exile = major problems with irate fanbase and death of the franchise


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Old 03-23-2007, 12:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
No Revan or exile = major problems with irate fanbase and death of the franchise
Not to mention severe plot holes left open.


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Old 03-23-2007, 01:11 PM   #21
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I have the Ultimate Idea, but it is aswell an ultimate challange for those who produce K3: Maybe you should be able to play as Revan or Exile or new char. And if you choose revan, the exile and the new one would be party-members, if you choose the exile, revan and the new one will be party members and so on...and you should be able to kill your party members if your char is though enough...Everyone will be happy!


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Old 03-23-2007, 02:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Though a detail depiction about the long and painful demise of a scumbag known as Mical is welcomed.
You know, there are actually some people who are fans of Disciple/Mical (hmmm, imagine that! ) and wouldn't mind seeing him again at all---me being one, thanks!


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If I could I would much rather play as Revan again, but Exile would be okay as well, but I highly doubt we'll get to play as either. Most likely we would play as a new character...



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Old 03-26-2007, 09:40 PM   #23
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How about a character that sets out to find Revan, or confront the True Sith, only to bite off more than they can chew, run with their tail between their legs and end up having to be saved by companions that the player character was fighting to save in the first place. Sound like anyone you know?
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Old 03-26-2007, 10:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
No Revan or exile = major problems with irate fanbase and death of the franchise
Prime didn’t say that Revan and the Exile should be just casually killed off in the background or brushed aside like they don’t exist in KotOR III. He just said that the KotOR III PC doesn’t have to meet Revan and the Exile in person.

It’s entirely possible for Revan and the Exile to play prominent roles in KotOR III without the KotOR III PC having to meet them in the flesh and interact with them.

Should Revan and the Exile be alive in KotOR III and play important roles? Yes. Does this mean that the new PC has to meet them in person? No. Give me at least one good reason why he/she has to.

And I see what Robb Stark is getting at. Okay, we select Revan and the Exile’s gender and we select their alignments, but not everyone’s Revan and Exile are the same. Not everyone’s Revan who chose the LS ending was a care bear hippie, and not everyone’s Exile who chose the DS ending was a big, big jerk.

All we are doing is choosing what endings the PC’s of the previous games chose and their genders; that’s it. And sure, you could give both Revan and the Exile masks and give them a set voice, but that will just ruin many people’s image of them.

Maybe we shouldn’t see or interact with them in KotOR III at all, just to avoid ruining perhaps most people’s images of them. In short: not everyone's Revan and Exile are the same.

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Old 03-27-2007, 12:02 AM   #25
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Revan can wear his mask and its all good. Maybe we should give Exile a mask/helmet/scarf/robot-skull?

Problem solved. Then no mention of what Exile would look like.
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Old 03-27-2007, 08:38 AM   #26
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Revan was voiced, even if s\he didn't say much. Any reason why we can't go with that and maybe a couple of diffirent voice actors in the event of them both being fe\male? Maybe entice a couple of big names to do the Exile so fans would warm to the idea, get Natalie Portman or Amy Allen to play her, or if male give Jango a rest and have someone like Hayden Christensen for the role.

As for looks, could the game somehow work out the appearence of Revan and the Exile based on how you describe them throughout the game? It might be too random or if it was implemented too obvious but if it could work would it be a good idea?
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:26 AM   #27
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Not to mention severe plot holes left open.
What plot holes are you refering to?

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Old 03-27-2007, 11:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Prime
What plot holes are you refering to?
The fates of both Revan and the Exile, and maybe even Bastila. Now I know, Revan is looking for (or fighting against) the True Sith and the Exile and Bastila are looking for Revan, but that doesn't tell us any details. Also, how could you possibly explain the absence of the two most powerful Force users of that time?

I replied to your post a little too quickly last time. I didn't happen to notice that you only said "no meeting them in person," and that could certainly work. But still, there will always be the fan-boys (or fan-girls) who must see their precious Revan, and whoever develops KotOR III will have to consider that.


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Old 03-27-2007, 05:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
Revan and exile should be in the game, but since they are so powerful now, they should not be playable until late in the game.
If you play them late on then you'll have to level up god knows how many times (at least to 30 I'd imagine) in one go. Thats ridiculous.

I agree with others that their presence should be limited; as limited as possible to remove the many problems with canon.
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:50 PM   #30
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Should we be able to select Revan and the Exile’s genders in KotOR III? Absolutely.

Should we be able to select what endings Revan and the Exile chose in the preceding games? Certainly.

Should we be able to select Revan and the Exile’s faces and classes? If required, then yes.

Does Revan already have a voice actor, for both sexes? Yes.

Does the Exile? No. Can we get a voice actor for both sexes for the Exile? Of course.


The problem is; is that not everyone’s Revan and the Exile were the same, even those who chose the same ending.

While your LS Exile may have been a care-bear hippie, a Jedi/Republic fanboy and a Mr. Popular with his/her companions, some people’s LS Exile may have disliked his/her companions, the Jedi Masters and the Republic, but saw them as indispensable to stop the Sith threat of TSL.

While your LS Revan may have been a care-bear hippie, a Jedi/Republic fanboy and romanced with Bastila or Carth, some people’s LS Revan may have disliked his/her companions, hated the Jedi and the Republic, but just sided with them and helped them destroy the Star Forge because he/she hates Bastila and the Sith that have been trying to kill him/her all through the game, so he/she would never side with them!

While you could keep such details ambiguous; if you do, you are limiting what they can do in the story.

Either you keep details about Revan and the Exile’s choices in the previous games ambiguous (that would be difficult), or you force some canon aspects about them (for example, LS Revan romanced with Bastila or Carth, redeemed Bastila and is a Jedi/Republic fanboy who cares about all his/her companions; DS Exile is a Sith Lord jerk who converted almost all of his/her companions into Dark Jedi.)


So in other words, you could have a “canon DSM/DSF Revan” and have a “canon LSM/LSF Revan” in KotOR III, to make things easier.

The question is, do we really need to see Revan and the Exile in person, and interact with them in KotOR III? Not really. Would it be nice? Yes. Would it be realistic? Only if there is some forced canon aspects about them (like the sound of their voices, what they are wearing, and their lightsabers).

Or you could do what Jediphile did. Use an idea like the civil war idea that has changed them. In other words, Revan was only your character in KotOR, the Exile was only your character in TSL, but before and after, they’re not.

So you select what their genders are, what endings they chose in the previous games, and maybe you select their faces, but during the time of KotOR III, they aren’t the same people they once were.

It wouldn’t make much sense for DS Revan and DS Exile to go LS, but from a plot perspective, vice versa would. The only problem with sort of canonizing Revan and the Exile only during most of KotOR III, is that many people dislike ANY forced canon aspects about them.

For example, I know that there are some people that were pissed to see Bastila alive in TSL if you set Revan as a LSM, because they killed her in KotOR. But personally I don’t mind if they did something along the lines of Jediphile’s idea, because I’ve accepted the fact that pre-KotOR Revan and post-KotOR Revan is not my character, and pre-TSL and post-TSL Exile is not my character.
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Old 03-27-2007, 11:03 PM   #31
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But still, there will always be the fan-boys (or fan-girls) who must see their precious Revan, and whoever develops KotOR III will have to consider that.
Actually no, they won't have to "consider" anything. All we will likely get is talk, just like TSL did with Revan. Where were all the "fan-boys" when TSL came out whining about not seeing Revan?

It really isn't that important, and causes more headaches than it is actually worth to pull off. We will certainly hear about both Revan and the Exile in a potential K3, but to actually 'see' them... doubtful.


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Old 03-27-2007, 11:43 PM   #32
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Actually no, they won't have to "consider" anything. All we will likely get is talk, just like TSL did with Revan. Where were all the "fan-boys" when TSL came out whining about not seeing Revan?
That's because they SAW Revan.

As a ghost, in a tomb, but yeah, they saw him.


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Old 03-28-2007, 12:11 AM   #33
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Actually no, they won't have to "consider" anything. All we will likely get is talk, just like TSL did with Revan. Where were all the "fan-boys" when TSL came out whining about not seeing Revan?

It really isn't that important, and causes more headaches than it is actually worth to pull off. We will certainly hear about both Revan and the Exile in a potential K3, but to actually 'see' them... doubtful.
I think the way round it is to have in dialogue that the Exile sacrificied his/her life to save Revan and have Revan fully suited up and Grey this removing any continuity problems.



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Old 03-28-2007, 10:00 AM   #34
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I think that when Revan regained all of his/her memories, He would have gone to the light regardless because, when he fell or sacrificed himself to the dark side things spiraled out of control and he lost sight of his mission. Or, he/she would have fallen back to the dark side believing it to be the only way to save the galaxy. Either way Revan wore the gray jumpsuit, mask, and cape even when he/she was a jedi, so he/she would just wear that and they would just need 2 voice actors.

And, I think either way the Exile would follow Revan. Or out of spite and distrust go the opposite way and likely die towards the beginning of the game.

So I think they could canonize what happened to them after the end of their games with out jeopardizing what we did with them in their games, and only include the previous characters that would likely be still alive no matter what the gender/alignment of the characters.
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:32 AM   #35
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It really isn't that important, and causes more headaches than it is actually worth to pull off. We will certainly hear about both Revan and the Exile in a potential K3, but to actually 'see' them... doubtful.
Like I have said in the past, it is the actions of Revan/Exile and the repercussions of them that are important.

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That's because they SAW Revan.
But that wasn't really Revan, nor was it relevant to current events.

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Old 03-29-2007, 12:11 AM   #36
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That's because they SAW Revan.

As a ghost, in a tomb, but yeah, they saw him.
I will quote Prime here...

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Originally Posted by Prime
But that wasn't really Revan, nor was it relevant to current events.
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Originally Posted by Prime
Like I have said in the past, it is the actions of Revan/Exile and the repercussions of them that are important.
Exactly.


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Old 03-29-2007, 03:07 AM   #37
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For once, I feel I must disagree with Prime and RedHawke. While Revan's story would have been complete if it had ended with the original game, K2 came along and had to expand Revan's role in the unfolding events of the galaxy. If the "true Sith" are going to play as big a role in the future of the KotOR series as Kreia seems to suggest, than Revan and the Exile's stories are far from complete.

It would be like watching The Empire Strikes Back, and having the series end just as Leia and Lando escape Cloud City without ever seeing Luke again after leaving Dagobah.

That being said, I don't particularly care to play as Revan or the Exile again in any potential KotOR3. Let me know what became of them and that's all I care about.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:12 AM   #38
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For once, I feel I must disagree with Prime and RedHawke. While Revan's story would have been complete if it had ended with the original game, K2 came along and had to expand Revan's role in the unfolding events of the galaxy. If the "true Sith" are going to play as big a role in the future of the KotOR series as Kreia seems to suggest, than Revan and the Exile's stories are far from complete.
Revan's role wasn't 'expanded' in TSL... all we do is find out tidbits about Revan's motives for doing what Revan did before the first KotOR and having Revan dissappear after the events of the first KotOR (Regardless of the ending). Hardly suitable to call that an 'expansion of Revan's role'.

Sorry, I just don't see Revan's role as 'expanded upon' in TSL. Actually I see TSL as the final chapter of Revan's impact as the fact is that TSL had Revan dissappearing, no matter the LS or DS ending of K1.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:35 AM   #39
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Given his popularity I think Revan would almost have to be in the game in some form or another, even if he's only mentioned and appears as a vision like in Sith Lords. Ditto for the Exile, a lot of people can live without seeing Juhani or GOTO again but not her.

Hmmm, with whether Revan cared for his companions and what not, is there any reason why every little detail like this has to be put in? Why not just have Revan display his utterly awesome skill with a lightsaber against someone the PC is fighting or something, have some dislogue that goes along the lines of why he fights, his feelings for Bastila and the Exile and leave it at that? Do we really need him to go all emo about looking out for Mission, or not, after the destruction of Taris?
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:13 AM   #40
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Sorry, I just don't see Revan's role as 'expanded upon' in TSL.
Plus, the majority of that can be completely skipped if the player chooses not to select those dialog options with NPCs (Kriea mainly).

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