lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: What should we do about Attack Parries?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 04-12-2007, 06:45 PM   #1
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,176
What should we do about Attack Parries?

I've been hearing complaints about how attack parries are performed. Namely, that it's too easy to spam them.

I need some suggestions on how to fix this.

My suggestion is to make attack parries be triggered by pressing secondary (only) while standing still.

Any ideas?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #2
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
I'm voting for having them the way they are right now so we can deal with more important things...

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-12-2007, 08:19 PM   #3
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
My suggestion is to make attack parries be triggered by pressing secondary (only) while standing still.
Think about it. How easy could anybody spam that. Watch as I just stand there and attack parry every hit you throw at me then just hit you in the slowbounce. Besides, we could use that combination for something else later.

Sorry but I was going to post those ideas you mentioned last night, but I realised they both have fatal flaws so I wasnt sure how to go about it. The first one would have ping related issues plus the preblocks dont always go off anyways. The second one would just be too hard to do right because of the preblocks interfering.

Honestly, the real problem lies in the preblocks themselves. I've gotten alot of complaints about those too From people who keep getting their swings prevented. We MUST find a way to make those overrideable by swings and start fakes if we're going to keep them in my opinion *coughs*andforlightningto*coughs* They dont add that much to the visual effect because they end up on a ping delay half the time and they prevent what was the best way to do attack parries we've had so far. Is there any way to make it sort of a ghost animation that doesn't effect swinging or normal blocks? Cmon, theres got to be something we can do!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
I'm voting for having them the way they are right now so we can deal with more important things...
The way they are now, attack fakes end up getting spammed because they you can't swing at them anymore half the time without getting attackparried. And because of the increase in attack fakes, accidential attack parries end up happening almost as much as they did when it was just attack you had to hold. Knowing this has made the combat alot less fun for me lately, so I'm anxious to see this changed. As long as we can find a way to override the preblocks, bringing back the old ones will be easy.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-12-2007, 08:45 PM   #4
mark2000
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 106
why not give a certain disadvantage to the person who makes a successful attack parry?
mark2000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-12-2007, 10:10 PM   #5
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I've been hearing complaints about how attack parries are performed. Namely, that it's too easy to spam them.

I need some suggestions on how to fix this.

My suggestion is to make attack parries be triggered by pressing secondary (only) while standing still.

Any ideas?
The old way was the best in my opinion. When pre-block animations didn't screw with precision and such. Good times, good times.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 03:37 AM   #6
UDM
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 922
But OJP looks nicer and more realistic with pre-block animations. Besides, it's what we asked for
UDM is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 03:51 AM   #7
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
The pre-block anims never ruined anything for me, I loved them. The old way of riposting is far too easy to be implemented back if you ask me. Just leave it the way it is so we can come up with something better.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 08:43 AM   #8
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Far too easy?! We can't even swing at an attack fake anymore without being reposited/attackparried half the time! Attackfake spam is ruining our saber combat and making normal swings practically useless for anybody but noobs. I taught a noob last we the attack fake and attack parry and he said "why not just do this all the time?" and I said good question, I hope it gets changed. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to think the last way (with just attack) we had was better than this. at least normal swings were useful.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 08:50 AM   #9
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
What did I say? It is far too easy to perform a riposte, even if you have the chance of doing a power attack. It will get even easier if it gets bounded to just riposting again.

Thusly, I suggested we just leave it the way it is for now untill we can think of something better. No, returning it to an even easier form is not better.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 02:26 PM   #10
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,176
Well, I think what I'm going to try is to make the pre-blocks not interfere with pre-blocks. That will mean that players won't pre-block much at all, but that's the price to be paid.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 05:26 PM   #11
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Well, I think what I'm going to try is to make the pre-blocks not interfere with pre-blocks. That will mean that players won't pre-block much at all, but that's the price to be paid.
Pre-blocks not interfere with preblocks? I'm not really sure what that means What does it mean for how we do the attack parry?

Quote:
Thusly, I suggested we just leave it the way it is for now untill we can think of something better. No, returning it to an even easier form is not better.
Well, I don't think the old old way of doing reposits was all that easy. FOr defense sake, it shouldn't be that hard to execute anyways. It could still be faked out pretty easily even back then. As far as leaving it the way it is, I think until razor can either fix the preblocks so their overridable (which the lightning block especially needs) or dont happen often enough to be a problem, I think the reposit should go back to being the only holding attack thing (and a condition that does not allow you to hold alt attack to make it work since it could before I think) so that will at least make normal attack useful again and give trying it some balance against trying the attack fakes/powerswings. Sure there will still be those accidential reposits, but at least you'll be able to swing at attackfakes again and gets some better usage out of normal swings. Thats a simple coding change on one line so its not like taking time away from anything


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 07:02 PM   #12
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,176
*cough* I meant "make the pre-blocks not interfere with windups, attacks, or returns.

What's wrong with the lightning block? That doesn't have anything to do with the pre-blocks.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 07:36 PM   #13
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
*cough* I meant "make the pre-blocks not interfere with windups, attacks, or returns.

What's wrong with the lightning block? That doesn't have anything to do with the pre-blocks.
LOL, I do the same thing alot in my sentences. we're getting old, Razor. LOL. anyways...

Hooray! This will solve alot of annoyances in the combat and save the attack parries with the old style so they can be more deliberate and independant. Quick interesting thought/idea, how about making start fakes vulnerable to kick, just so you can maybe fake out a constant attack parrier?

Hehe, its just that lightning is too spammable in saber combat because you can stop any swing by doing a quick blast. There should only an exception for meleers as far as stopping swings. However, the double damage thing for melee lightning needs to be changed to a slower FP drain I think. The double damage thing ends can be spammed because a person can switch to melee and do lightning and completely drain the jedis DP and knock them over, then switch to saber and lunge them or kill them on the next swing.

Although I suppose the damage fo double handed lightning could just be reduced to maybe *1.5 and that MIGHT balance it and get rid of that spam problem.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 08:22 PM   #14
mark2000
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 106
If you return the use of Attack Parry through normal swings again, what will happen to normal parrying then? Will you be able to do normal parrying by doing Attack Fakes?
mark2000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-13-2007, 08:50 PM   #15
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2000
If you return the use of Attack Parry through normal swings again, what will happen to normal parrying then? Will you be able to do normal parrying by doing Attack Fakes?

Nope, because that was exactly the problem before, attackfakes were spammed because of it.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 04:17 AM   #16
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Hooray! This will solve alot of annoyances in the combat and save the attack parries with the old style so they can be more deliberate and independant. Quick interesting thought/idea, how about making start fakes vulnerable to kick, just so you can maybe fake out a constant attack parrier?
You mean no kick dodge?
Quote:
Hehe, its just that lightning is too spammable in saber combat because you can stop any swing by doing a quick blast. There should only an exception for meleers as far as stopping swings. However, the double damage thing for melee lightning needs to be changed to a slower FP drain I think. The double damage thing ends can be spammed because a person can switch to melee and do lightning and completely drain the jedis DP and knock them over, then switch to saber and lunge them or kill them on the next swing.
How does stopping a swing hurt the gameplay? I thought the issue was more with the instant knockdown.
Quote:
Although I suppose the damage fo double handed lightning could just be reduced to maybe *1.5 and that MIGHT balance it and get rid of that spam problem.
Ok, we can try that. bug ticket it.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 04:43 AM   #17
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
You mean no kick dodge?
Yeah, I think that would be ok but I'm not entirely sure. it would make sense movie wise.

Quote:
How does stopping a swing hurt the gameplay? I thought the issue was more with the instant knockdown.
That is sometimes a problem too, but stopping the swing is realy annoying in saber combat and in gunner combat because you might be trying to get a rhythm going with your swings or about to hit somebody and they keep interupting your swings with quick blasts so you can never get a hit on them.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 04:51 AM   #18
mark2000
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Nope, because that was exactly the problem before, attackfakes were spammed because of it.
so normal parry is left to idle stance and start fake. I guess I can live with that.

wait a minute.....

If that's the case then don't you think TABBots will become a hell of a lot easier to deal with now than before?
mark2000 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 07:39 AM   #19
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
I'll repeat:
Returning it to the old version of using fakes or attacks will make it much easier, much more spammed than it is now and will leave regular attacks and regular parries down in the dirt.

My take on this is that we should fix it by having riposted power attacks get a bigger bounce and setting the forceregentime on servers lower.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 08:28 AM   #20
DarthDie
Junior Member
 
DarthDie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Matrix
Posts: 407
Regular attacks are currently in the dust as it is >.>.


OJP Sponsors and websites

"...and what about all those screenshots in there of DarthDie with a swastika of demo charges."
DarthDie is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 01:47 PM   #21
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
That is sometimes a problem too, but stopping the swing is realy annoying in saber combat and in gunner combat because you might be trying to get a rhythm going with your swings or about to hit somebody and they keep interupting your swings with quick blasts so you can never get a hit on them.
Mmm, that's a bit annoying, but I figure it's more of a standoff situation, neither party can really do anything other than block or fire lightning.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 02:56 PM   #22
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
I'm not sure why some people would think that the old way of doing attack parries would be easier than the current way it is now or the previous way. By old way, I mean timing a basic fake along with the correct parry direction.

As for Lightning being a standoff situation, that is completely incorrect. Someone who is using lightning as a defense will have the upper hand than to someone who isn't. Usually you stop the person from attacking followed by cheap hits. As for hybrids using it along with their guns and flames, well that's a huge problem. As soon as you get close and are trying to slice they can easily lightning you, jump away or jetpack away, continue to flame you, do all sorts of things. They don't really rely on force as much as Jedi so they can block all your strikes at the press of a button and unload on you faster than you can recover from your forced block. Starting lightning only costs 2-3 force points, and it has the ability to knock you down or force a block. There's a reason it is the best force power, and that's because it is overpowered <_<

Look at Lightning in comparison to Grip. Both cost the same, only Grip has a starting cost of a billion force points and a constant cost of a million force points to continue. It can't knock an opponent down, it doesn't effect DP, it can't affect a user that wouldn't normally be affected by force like Lightning can, it really doesn't measure up to any of the force powers yet it is priced as much as the most overpowered force power. Somethings wrong with that picture. Even the lesser priced force powers such as Push and Pull force a block (affecting someone when they aren't normally affected with force powers unlike Grip...) which is not quite as overpowered and game breaking as Lightning because of a higher starting cost but it still is overpowered and game breaking.

As for the pre-block animations, they completely mess up precision and accuracy. You can't accurately try to strike because most of the time you will be in a pre-block animation which will not allow you to strike. An example of this would be when trying to strike someone during the wind up of an attack fake. Nine out of ten times you will be in a pre-block animation not allowing you to strike back at the right moment which is a problem. And to be honest I don't really think they are worth it because it really doesn't add any game play value, it is just animations being run. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it detracts from game play value because of the bad things that have come from it. Such as having to change attack parries and removing the ability to do timed strikes to counter someone doing an attack fake.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 03:50 PM   #23
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
I'm not sure why some people would think that the old way of doing attack parries would be easier than the current way it is now or the previous way. By old way, I mean timing a basic fake along with the correct parry direction.
How are they not? Timing a two button, long attack that can easily be canceled out versus timing a tap that works in a 2 second barrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja
As for Lightning being a standoff situation, that is completely incorrect. Someone who is using lightning as a defense will have the upper hand than to someone who isn't. Usually you stop the person from attacking followed by cheap hits. As for hybrids using it along with their guns and flames, well that's a huge problem. As soon as you get close and are trying to slice they can easily lightning you, jump away or jetpack away, continue to flame you, do all sorts of things. They don't really rely on force as much as Jedi so they can block all your strikes at the press of a button and unload on you faster than you can recover from your forced block. Starting lightning only costs 2-3 force points, and it has the ability to knock you down or force a block. There's a reason it is the best force power, and that's because it is overpowered <_<
Not really.
Lightning leaves you open before, during and after you execute it. Also unless your forceregentime is at 1 like on Hocks' server, there'll be no real trouble with lightning as to make it effective you need to drain out your FP bar to meet ends with your opponents' DP bar. The defense for lightning costs HALF than lightning itself as well.

Gunners should not be able to get lightning. PERIOD. If/when the new idea about no-force-without-specific-guns gets combined with the accuracy system we have now, gunners won't be able to get clean shots in anymore if they try to shoot-jump-lightning shoot again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Look at Lightning in comparison to Grip. Both cost the same, only Grip has a starting cost of a billion force points and a constant cost of a million force points to continue. It can't knock an opponent down, it doesn't effect DP, it can't affect a user that wouldn't normally be affected by force like Lightning can, it really doesn't measure up to any of the force powers yet it is priced as much as the most overpowered force power. Somethings wrong with that picture. Even the lesser priced force powers such as Push and Pull force a block (affecting someone when they aren't normally affected with force powers unlike Grip...) which is not quite as overpowered and game breaking as Lightning because of a higher starting cost but it still is overpowered and game breaking.
You can move people to any location within 10 feet of yourself with grip, including a big pit. Also, grip has the ability to not only slow down but also incapacitate the opponent for a far longer time than lightning does. Lightning also blasts the opponent away from you while grip can be useful for bringing them closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
As for the pre-block animations, they completely mess up precision and accuracy. You can't accurately try to strike because most of the time you will be in a pre-block animation which will not allow you to strike. An example of this would be when trying to strike someone during the wind up of an attack fake. Nine out of ten times you will be in a pre-block animation not allowing you to strike back at the right moment which is a problem. And to be honest I don't really think they are worth it because it really doesn't add any game play value, it is just animations being run. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it detracts from game play value because of the bad things that have come from it. Such as having to change attack parries and removing the ability to do timed strikes to counter someone doing an attack fake.
I do agree that they are sometimes in the way.. but if we made everything override the pre-block anims per se it wouldn't be such a problem.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 04:23 PM   #24
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
I'll repeat:
Returning it to the old version of using fakes or attacks will make it much easier, much more spammed than it is now and will leave regular attacks and regular parries down in the dirt.

My take on this is that we should fix it by having riposted power attacks get a bigger bounce and setting the forceregentime on servers lower.

Quote:
How are they not? Timing a two button, long attack that can easily be canceled out versus timing a tap that works in a 2 second barrier.
In comparison to the new reposits, the old ones have to be deliberate and are completely independant of any other move. And they are only easier when doing them deliberately when trying them by themselves (hopefully easier for noobs to learn toi). The new reposits can be done (and ARE usually done) coming right out of a slowbounce or any second hit. You can just hold the buttons and parry because by the time they hit you, your block or slowbounce animation ends and its an extrememly easy reposit. Thats why tanqexe was able to attack parry me constantly in our last few fights, even though he didnt even know how to do them in the new code! Last I talked to him, he missed the old way too. Your ideas on how to fix them will not help how often they happen that much or allow the powerattacks to be swung at any better.

No, the new attack parries have way too many issues to be preferable over the old ones. If its spammed, hopefully Razor will listen to my kick idea that I posted above Don't think it will be though, I rememeber our system seeming more offense heavy back when it was around than it is now. I'm willing to bet they happen alot more now then they did back then.

Quote:
Not really.
Lightning leaves you open before, during and after you execute it. Also unless your forceregentime is at 1 like on Hocks' server, there'll be no real trouble with lightning as to make it effective you need to drain out your FP bar to meet ends with your opponents' DP bar. The defense for lightning costs HALF than lightning itself as well.
For the record, my server is set at 350. That 1 thing is a bug that occasionally happens to my server for some reason. Anyways, a quick blast of lightning stopping your swing can interrupt the flow of the battle and give your opponent the upper hand. Its still quite annoying. Hopefully Razor will add that no offensive power thing for weapons that ou and he talked about so we won't have to deal with lightning + gunner spam.

Quote:
As for the pre-block animations, they completely mess up precision and accuracy. You can't accurately try to strike because most of the time you will be in a pre-block animation which will not allow you to strike. An example of this would be when trying to strike someone during the wind up of an attack fake. Nine out of ten times you will be in a pre-block animation not allowing you to strike back at the right moment which is a problem. And to be honest I don't really think they are worth it because it really doesn't add any game play value, it is just animations being run. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it detracts from game play value because of the bad things that have come from it. Such as having to change attack parries and removing the ability to do timed strikes to counter someone doing an attack fake.
Razor already said he'll probably make them overridable. So they'ed just be there for visual effect and not detract from anything.

...and I agree, grip should not cost that much unless its as good as lightning and its just not.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:10 PM   #25
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
How are they not? Timing a two button, long attack that can easily be canceled out versus timing a tap that works in a 2 second barrier.
Mkay, lets see. Think about the previous way attack parries were done. Anytime while holding attack. People thought it was overpowered and unskillful enough to change it. Well they changed it so that you now have to hold 2 buttons instead of one. That's the only difference. You don't have to time anything, all you have to do is hold 2 buttons instead of 1.

Quote:
Not really.
Lightning leaves you open before, during and after you execute it. Also unless your forceregentime is at 1 like on Hocks' server, there'll be no real trouble with lightning as to make it effective you need to drain out your FP bar to meet ends with your opponents' DP bar. The defense for lightning costs HALF than lightning itself as well.
Lightning doesn't leave you open enough for it to be an issue to use. Also, because it forces the opponent to block it doesn't really matter that it does leave you open. Basically you block an attack being undamaged for the cost of 2-3 force by just pressing a button.

Quote:
You can move people to any location within 10 feet of yourself with grip, including a big pit. Also, grip has the ability to not only slow down but also incapacitate the opponent for a far longer time than lightning does. Lightning also blasts the opponent away from you while grip can be useful for bringing them closer.
The force cost alone really makes grip an underpowered force power. Someone has to be force vulnerable for Grip to even have an affect on someone unlike every other force power. Lightning, Push, and Pull all affect the user by forcing them to block. Also, moving someone around isn't all that important and because the person has to be force vulnerable thus it is hard to get them into a position where you can just throw them out. That is if you are in a map that has those features, such as Taspir. Also, you say that Grip you can bring them in closer and all that yada yada yada, with Lightning, you can drop them with 2-3 force points and then strike forcing a dodge if they are force vulnerable. They don't move 100 miles away as you claim, they are easily within range to strike and serve a better purpose than push and pull in that department because of the force point use comparison. And you also forget that a quick press of the push button easily stops Grip. Grip also doesn't have the ability to drain dodge points as Lightning can. Lightning has many uses, Grip does not.

Simply put, Grip isn't anywhere near Lightnings league.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:11 PM   #26
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
In comparison to the new reposits, the old ones have to be deliberate and are completely independant of any other move. And they are only easier when doing them deliberately when trying them by themselves (hopefully easier for noobs to learn toi). The new reposits can be done (and ARE usually done) coming right out of a slowbounce or any second hit. You can just hold the buttons and parry because by the time they hit you, your block or slowbounce animation ends and its an extrememly easy reposit. Thats why tanqexe was able to attack parry me constantly in our last few fights, even though he didnt even know how to do them in the new code! Last I talked to him, he missed the old way too. Your ideas on how to fix them will not help how often they happen that much or allow the powerattacks to be swung at any better.
They might've been better for the job as they didn't interfere with anything else but that wasn't my point, they were easier to do because you could only focus on them and didn't have to attack or think of anything else. With power attacks coming with the new ones, you actually have to think about what you're doing in case you get overwhelmed or hit someone somewhere you didn't want too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockney
No, the new attack parries have way too many issues to be preferable over the old ones. If its spammed, hopefully Razor will listen to my kick idea that I posted above Don't think it will be though, I rememeber our system seeming more offense heavy back when it was around than it is now. I'm willing to bet they happen alot more now then they did back then.
I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hocks
For the record, my server is set at 350. That 1 thing is a bug that occasionally happens to my server for some reason. Anyways, a quick blast of lightning stopping your swing can interrupt the flow of the battle and give your opponent the upper hand. Its still quite annoying. Hopefully Razor will add that no offensive power thing for weapons that ou and he talked about so we won't have to deal with lightning + gunner spam.
The force regen on your server is so high that it doesn't matter what the Jedi does; they don't have to think about the consequences of their force drain because they don't have to deal with fatigue since force replenishes too fast.
That's why Lightning might seem overpowered. On my server, you're left with 20 or less FP if you want lightning to have any effect, which is too little to be of any use in a saber match, especially if countered with lightning so your FP meter stops recharging to recharge DP.

Also, do note that for one level of Force lightning you can get 2 levels of Force Absorb! That makes it much less than useless!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hocks
...and I agree, grip should not cost that much unless its as good as lightning and its just not.
Just for the fact that Grip can't penetrate a good force block defense doesn't mean it's less vital or useful than lightning is. I prefer grip over lightning any day because it gives me a surefire kill for any low dp/high mishap/low FP character.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:16 PM   #27
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
They might've been better for the job as they didn't interfere with anything else but that wasn't my point, they were easier to do because you could only focus on them and didn't have to attack or think of anything else. With power attacks coming with the new ones, you actually have to think about what you're doing in case you get overwhelmed or hit someone somewhere you didn't want too.
You're talking as if attack parries of the good 'ol days were very easy to do. They weren't. The way it is now, it is pretty damn easy though. It just says, 'I am an Attack Fake, come spam me and you'll have the ability to easily attack parry anything you want, just as before but now you have to hold two buttons, no problem.'
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:19 PM   #28
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
Just for the fact that Grip can't penetrate a good force block defense doesn't mean it's less vital or useful than lightning is. I prefer grip over lightning any day because it gives me a surefire kill for any low dp/high mishap/low FP character.
I'm wondering how you could think that Grip could provide a surefire way to kill someone and Lightning can't in the same exact position while using a lot less force and being done a lot more easily.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:19 PM   #29
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Sorry, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myself
They might've been better for the job as they didn't interfere with anything else but that wasn't my point, they were easier to do because you could only focus on them and didn't have to attack or think of anything else. With power attacks coming with the new ones, you actually have to think about what you're doing in case you get overwhelmed or hit someone somewhere you didn't want too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by again
What did I say? It is far too easy to perform a riposte, even if you have the chance of doing a power attack. It will get even easier if it gets bounded to just riposting again.

Thusly, I suggested we just leave it the way it is for now untill we can think of something better. No, returning it to an even easier form is not better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k
Returning it to the old version of using fakes or attacks will make it much easier, much more spammed than it is now and will leave regular attacks and regular parries down in the dirt.

My take on this is that we should fix it by having riposted power attacks get a bigger bounce and setting the forceregentime on servers lower.
Edit:
Because lightning blasts opponents away, sometimes or most of the times to the floor which allows them to not only roll away or attempt to escape but also allows them time to build up some dodge. When gripped you are unable to escape and can be brought closer to your opponent, when dropped you are also still standing and incapacitated and can be killed in one swipe. I am not sure whether the bars stand still or recharge but I thought DP goes down when gripped.

Edit to the post below mine:
I'm trying to say that you should read my arguments better and actually provide counter arguments instead of just trying to show how the old ones are better with Hockney as your backup. You two play together a lot and it's clear that you also share the same opinion on many things. Fine by me, but try to actually support that opinion with more than dribbel.

I wish the people I played with would register.. I'm looking at you Rache!

Also, a double post post topped off with a very short and useless hypocritical one.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:22 PM   #30
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Repeating what you said really isn't adding anything to this discussion and just shows you don't really have anything to say. Why reply at all then?
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:26 PM   #31
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
With all my experience with Lightning no one who is force vulnerable while fighting me ever get thrown too far that I couldn't hit them in a saber fight. And I am almost positive that when you are lightninged down you cannot roll or move away.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:28 PM   #32
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Yes Hocks and I play together, but that doesn't mean we always agree. Sometimes I have to SHOW and EXPLAIN to Hocks why I think what I think. A lot of things that Hocks agrees with me now he didn't agree at first. I am providing 'counter arguments' you just are not reading them if you think I am not.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:30 PM   #33
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
By the way, when Hocks and I play it is always at DEFAULT force regeneration, so don't be thinking that I play at anything other than DEFAULT force regen time.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:30 PM   #34
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Your second post:
And in all my experience, which, I strongly believe would undermine yours, I disagree.

Your third post:
Please state these counter arguments and I will try to present a nice argument in return.

Your fourth post:
That's another your word against mine. I'm running servers too and playing with a lot of different expert duelers and none of them have complained thus far. Edit: Need I say that Hocks JUST said that it's set to "350"?

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:36 PM   #35
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
I don't play at his server Max. And you may say that your experience is greater than mine but that's just your ego talking as usual. And I am not complaining, I am simply stating my thoughts on Lightning being overpowered, because quite frankly, that's what I think. There's a lot of evidence to 'prove' this. AND for the love of god Max, it is not my damn fault that you can't see the counter arguments. If you choose to not read or comprehend any of my posts I'm not going to go and baby sit you by pointing every damn little **** I say and explaining every single word in vivid detail.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:43 PM   #36
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
I don't play at his server Max. And you may say that your experience is greater than mine but that's just your ego talking as usual. And I am not complaining, I am simply stating my thoughts on Lightning being overpowered, because quite frankly, that's what I think. There's a lot of evidence to 'prove' this. AND for the love of god Max, it is not my damn fault that you can't see the counter arguments. If you choose to not read or comprehend any of my posts I'm not going to go and baby sit you by pointing every damn little **** I say and explaining every single word in vivid detail.
So to really get a clear picture of OJP one should play only at your server? m'kay.

Lets not start insulting each other now. I like you have an opinion about this subject that I would like to defend. Like it or not I have a lot of hours put into OJP and the biggest part of them were put into testing the saber system. There are still a lot of quirks to be dealt with but lightning being too powerful is just not one of them.

Sorry, I'm either dumb or blind, could you please write them in your next post so that I could better explain and backup my opinion? Thank you.
No need to be patronizing or insulting. When you post an opinion it should be clear as to the extent that everyone understands it and can act and comment about it. If you choose not to explain your opinion I for one will not deal with it seriously.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 05:57 PM   #37
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
So to really get a clear picture of OJP one should play only at your server? m'kay.
Putting words into my mouth. I never said that. I was simply stating that I play at my server because you assumed I play at Hocks which has the force regen time to 350 but my server does not.

Quote:
Lets not start insulting each other now. I like you have an opinion about this subject that I would like to defend. Like it or not I have a lot of hours put into OJP and the biggest part of them were put into testing the saber system. There are still a lot of quirks to be dealt with but lightning being too powerful is just not one of them.
So yes, you're the only one here who has put hours upon hours testing the saber system? Your ego never fails to amaze me.

Quote:
Sorry, I'm either dumb or blind, could you please write them in your next post so that I could better explain and backup my opinion? Thank you. No need to be patronizing or insulting. When you post an opinion it should be clear as to the extent that everyone understands it and can act and comment about it. If you choose not to explain your opinion I for one will not deal with it seriously.
How is it not clear when I post? Are you too damn stubborn to see them? I'm posting it quite clearly, but you're just being stubborn which is getting on my damn nerves at this point.

I have already stated why I think Lightning is overpowered and why I think Grip is underpowered in comparison. I'm simply not just saying, 'Lightning is overpowered and Grip is underpowered, have a nice day.' I'm giving you facts and details as to WHY I think it is overpowered. Do you want me to bullet them for you? Do you want me to read them to you?

*Lightning's force cost to activate is extremely lower than Grip's force cost.

*Lightning can reduce the opponents DP, Grip cannot.

*Lightning has an effect on the opponent whether or not they are vulnerable to force. That affect being forcing a block, Grip does not. This can be used to the extent of a very easy defense button so to speak.

*Lightning can easily knock down an opponent who is force vulnerable at the activation cost of 2-3, Grip cannot and has a much higher activation cost. It basically does the same as Pull/Push would do to a saberist at a much lower cost.

*A full burst of Lightning 3 while in melee can completely remove an opponents DP (Speaking about 100 DP), Grip cannot affect DP.

*Lightning can be used to more effect and is more efficient in terms of double teaming. 2 Lightning 3 users and you probably won't see the light of day. Same cannot be said about Grip.

Should I go on? Open your damn eyes Max, seriously.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 06:21 PM   #38
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
Putting words into my mouth. I never said that. I was simply stating that I play at my server because you assumed I play at Hocks which has the force regen time to 350 but my server does not.
Have you ever played on my server?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
So yes, you're the only one here who has put hours upon hours testing the saber system? Your ego never fails to amaze me.
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm just trying to express that my opinion is as valid as yours, Jacky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
How is it not clear when I post? Are you too damn stubborn to see them? I'm posting it quite clearly, but you're just being stubborn which is getting on my damn nerves at this point.
Well I can't see any that I haven't already kind of answered or given my opinion about. Maybe I'm just not too observant? What's the big problem in just quoting them quickly man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
I have already stated why I think Lightning is overpowered and why I think Grip is underpowered in comparison. I'm simply not just saying, 'Lightning is overpowered and Grip is underpowered, have a nice day.' I'm giving you facts and details as to WHY I think it is overpowered. Do you want me to bullet them for you? Do you want me to read them to you?
And I was giving my opinion on how I don't think Grip is underpowered or Force lightning is overpowered, so what's the huge deal? Am I just not allowed to disagree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Lightning's force cost to activate is extremely lower than Grip's force cost.
This I'll agree with, however, Grip does not leave you open to any saber attacks or projectiles while Lightning has you in an over ~2 second pause of vulnerability as I've explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Lightning can reduce the opponents DP, Grip cannot.
Are you sure about this one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Lightning has an effect on the opponent whether or not they are vulnerable to force. That affect being forcing a block, Grip does not. This can be used to the extent of a very easy defense button so to speak.
Yes, but it costs Force to use, so essentially you're using the force to defend yourself. Force needs to regenerate so with a proper force regeneration time the Lightning user's parade will be short-lived unless they're really determined for escape.

Plus, you fail to remember about the vulnerability that sets in before during and after the lightning.

Situation one:
Runner while facing the opponent and using lightning. Opponent blocks lightning with saber, catches up and slashes you while you're vulnerable.

Situation two:
Running while facing away from the opponent.
You're vulnerable to his or her force lightning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Lightning can easily knock down an opponent who is force vulnerable at the activation cost of 2-3, Grip cannot and has a much higher activation cost. It basically does the same as Pull/Push would do to a saberist at a much lower cost.
However Grip does give you the benefit of moving your opponent closer to you, further from you or even down a pit from WHATEVER position you're in. It also allows you to essentially THROW your opponent to wherever you want with a flick of the mouse. In comparison, lightning can either push the opponent away or flick them down to the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*A full burst of Lightning 3 while in melee can completely remove an opponents DP (Speaking about 100 DP), Grip cannot affect DP. !
We've gone through this? Grip does not leave you open and has no downsides to trying to use it on an opponent. A full burst of lightning 3 leaves you around 20 or less FP which would make you toast for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Lightning can be used to more effect and is more efficient in terms of double teaming. 2 Lightning 3 users and you probably won't see the light of day. Same cannot be said about Grip.!
What's the situation? 2 v 2? Unarmed melee? Low DP status?
Lightning has the upper hand in a direct attack, grip would be far more suited near pits or ditches or even for a tag team grip-fest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Should I go on? Open your damn eyes Max, seriously.
(marked the arguments that I couldn't find anywhere with a !)

Thanks, this makes it much easier. We started off about ripostes and ended up with lightning..

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 06:53 PM   #39
JackBaldy
Rookie
 
JackBaldy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Quote:
Have you ever played on my server?
It's not on the list like mine is. Or like Templars was. Or like Meat Grinder is when it is up.

Quote:
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I'm just trying to express that my opinion is as valid as yours, Jacky
The way you say it comes off as if you're trying to say myself or others have not put a lot of time into the saber system as you have.

Quote:
Well I can't see any that I haven't already kind of answered or given my opinion about. Maybe I'm just not too observant? What's the big problem in just quoting them quickly man?
I didn't feel like it.

Quote:
And I was giving my opinion on how I don't think Grip is underpowered or Force lightning is overpowered, so what's the huge deal? Am I just not allowed to disagree?
Yes you're allowed to disagree, but don't try to say that my counter arguments aren't there when they clearly are. Don't try to throw my opinion and statements as invalid because you can't see the 'counter arguments' in them.

Quote:
This I'll agree with, however, Grip does not leave you open to any saber attacks or projectiles while Lightning has you in an over ~2 second pause of vulnerability as I've explained.
You're open for what, roughly 2 seconds? I have never ever in the many times that I have used Lightning ever been affected by this vulnerability. It might be there, but that doesn't really mean much because it doesn't really do much. Otherwise I'd just been owned the billions and billions of times that I have used Lightning as a defense technique or the billions and billions of times a gunner has used Lightning as a defense technique.

Quote:
Yes, but it costs Force to use, so essentially you're using the force to defend yourself. Force needs to regenerate so with a proper force regeneration time the Lightning user's parade will be short-lived unless they're really determined for escape.

Plus, you fail to remember about the vulnerability that sets in before during and after the lightning.

Situation one:
Runner while facing the opponent and using lightning. Opponent blocks lightning with saber, catches up and slashes you while you're vulnerable.

Situation two:
Running while facing away from the opponent.
You're vulnerable to his or her force lightning.
*Situation one has never ever happened to me. You may say that you'd get caught in slash while you're vulnerable but it just doesn't work that way. You lightning, stop their whole offense, and you can go on the offense. Rarely will this so called vulnerability help the opponent to kill you or hurt you.

*If I remember correctly, attack fakes use 2 force points right? Lightning uses roughly the same amount, and it grants you to completely negate a strike and go on the offense for cheap hits. Just ask Hocks how I played him with Lightning. Yes, force regeneration time was set at default, so don't come out saying anything about that o.O

Quote:
However Grip does give you the benefit of moving your opponent closer to you, further from you or even down a pit from WHATEVER position you're in. It also allows you to essentially THROW your opponent to wherever you want with a flick of the mouse. In comparison, lightning can either push the opponent away or flick them down to the floor.
How does wasting a ton of force for using Grip activation time and having the ability to move a person like you can with Grip actually help you though? You can say for defense, throwing them far away and such so you can regenerate DP, but essentially you are getting less DP in return because of the DP formula. You can say that you can throw people to death, but that only applies to certain maps. Lightning on the other hand has great combat value because essentially you knock the opponent down and hit him for double non parried damage WITHOUT wasting a great deal of force on activation.

Quote:
We've gone through this? Grip does not leave you open and has no downsides to trying to use it on an opponent. A full burst of lightning 3 leaves you around 20 or less FP which would make you toast for anything.
A full burst of lightning also leaves the opponent WITH NO DP. And depending on whether or not you have a teammate helping you, either of you can go for the kill. And again, the vulnerability really is not enough to make a difference. For Grip even to work the opponent has to be in a force vulnerable position, Lightning can get you to no DP right from the start.

Quote:
Thanks, this makes it much easier. We started off about ripostes and ended up with lightning..
Yes, sorry, now I know you need special treatment because you can't understand or comprehend what I am trying to say when I don't baby sit and bullet everything for you.
JackBaldy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-14-2007, 07:07 PM   #40
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBaldy
It's not on the list like mine is. Or like Templars was. Or like Meat Grinder is when it is up.
It's on hamachi, get it at www.hamachi.cc and lets have some fun.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
The way you say it comes off as if you're trying to say myself or others have not put a lot of time into the saber system as you have.
Really? I had the same feeling from your post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jack
I didn't feel like it.
Ah now we're getting somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Yes you're allowed to disagree, but don't try to say that my counter arguments aren't there when they clearly are. Don't try to throw my opinion and statements as invalid because you can't see the 'counter arguments' in them.
Well I asked you to post them for but you "didn't feel like it". I try to respect your opinion but I would like to see that behaviour back. It's like my opinion is wrong by default whenever I'm in an argument with you.
Just because our opinions differ doesn't mean we have to start **** like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
You're open for what, roughly 2 seconds? I have never ever in the many times that I have used Lightning ever been affected by this vulnerability. It might be there, but that doesn't really mean much because it doesn't really do much. Otherwise I'd just been owned the billions and billions of times that I have used Lightning as a defense technique or the billions and billions of times a gunner has used Lightning as a defense technique.
On my own server that delay is what I use to get people into a big combo of dodges. I'm fine with gunners using it as a defense because they would have to say in melee, if they used it while shooting and I was in that big of a range I would just use deflect. However gunners should not get lightning 3 by default unless they're carrying a pistol or melee according to bug ticket "Force Denial".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*Situation one has never ever happened to me. You may say that you'd get caught in slash while you're vulnerable but it just doesn't work that way. You lightning, stop their whole offense, and you can go on the offense. Rarely will this so called vulnerability help the opponent to kill you or hurt you.
This is what I mean. It hasn't happened to you so it doesn't exist or is of little importance. Okay Jack, whatever you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
*If I remember correctly, attack fakes use 2 force points right? Lightning uses roughly the same amount, and it grants you to completely negate a strike and go on the offense for cheap hits. Just ask Hocks how I played him with Lightning. Yes, force regeneration time was set at default, so don't come out saying anything about that o.O
Well in my game there's an amount of time between lightning strikes, so if you were striking him over and over again to avoid his slashes you would've have to be either using jump or something else to stay away from him for the time that you couldn't use lightning, which is also a 2 or 3 second delay. I've never really had the problem although I can see reasons to up the starting cost.

However I really don't want to make powers cost more than they already do in fear of losing them due to lack of usability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
How does wasting a ton of force for using Grip activation time and having the ability to move a person like you can with Grip actually help you though? You can say for defense, throwing them far away and such so you can regenerate DP, but essentially you are getting less DP in return because of the DP formula. You can say that you can throw people to death, but that only applies to certain maps. Lightning on the other hand has great combat value because essentially you knock the opponent down and hit him for double non parried damage WITHOUT wasting a great deal of force on activation.
Because as I've explaiend about.. what.. 3 times now? That lightning is not a straightforward and sure hit, with grip you can position your enemy in one place and make certain that he stays in that place for at least 2 seconds without the ability to recharge anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
A full burst of lightning also leaves the opponent WITH NO DP. And depending on whether or not you have a teammate helping you, either of you can go for the kill. And again, the vulnerability really is not enough to make a difference. For Grip even to work the opponent has to be in a force vulnerable position, Lightning can get you to no DP right from the start.
Only if you use both hands from melee mode, which leaves you open to the user's saber, saber throw, guns and Force powers. I don't believe a single handed full burst can take out a user's full amount of DP when they have enough Absorb.

To your dual lightning x2 thing: Razor is aiming for movie realism. One burst of lightning 1 was enough to send obi wan flying in episode 2, and in episode 3 the most powerful of duelists was destroyed by a single, weakened lightning 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Yes, sorry, now I know you need special treatment because you can't understand or comprehend what I am trying to say when I don't baby sit and bullet everything for you.
It's not my opinion, it's yours, if you want me to take it seriously you'll have to present it in a readable and equally serious manner. I think most of your arguments can be found at the end of post 25 which seem as scattered as this thread is now.

I'm not going to try and decipher something like that unless I really have too. And for you Jack, I don't want to break a sweat.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > What should we do about Attack Parries?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:58 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.