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View Poll Results: If there were to be a "K3" as a mod, would you go for it?
Yes 23 50.00%
No 7 15.22%
Yes, IF.F ............. 6 13.04%
Not unless ........... 3 6.52%
(Maybe) Hard to see, the future is. 13 28.26%
Dead Racoon?! Where?! 7 15.22%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: K3 as a mod??? Who'd be up for that?
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Old 02-20-2009, 02:11 AM   #1
Darth Avlectus
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K3 as a mod??? Who'd be up for that?

OK. Everyone has their own ideas--this is not the thread to spout them off because everyone has their own ideas. Since to me it looks like good things come in 3s, or at least SW things do; anyway, I think the MMO SW:TOR is going to end up being the 3rd installment, like it or not. I really do.

However, the point of this would be to see who would think that a KOTOR 3 'mod' might have some traction. That they would like it in any case regardless of their position on the recently announced MMO.

Or no...

Discuss.

EDIT: (I am not considering doing a mod like this--maybe if the right people talked to me about it and got me interested, I might...but until then...<shrugs>)


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Old 02-20-2009, 02:58 AM   #2
Rev7
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No,

I would not be up for that because it just wouldn't be the same. I want KotOR III (though I have a hunch that it will never come out ) to be for console (or PC I guess).

To me, a mod would just be somewhat of a cheap-knock off. I just can't visualize it to tell you the truth...

my opinion though

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Old 02-20-2009, 03:18 AM   #3
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I suppose. Though in the future it will be hard to tell.

Using what is given in the game, change some things, maybe...would it not be possible to come up with an entirely new storyline?

Understandably only so much could be done to it, I admit. Still...exploration and certain aspects about the game itself are what make it.

The small stuff does count for a bit, yes. However, you can only add so many perks before it gets kind of excessive, don't you think?

Why couldn't you visualize it? Storyline and conflicts of interest amongst fans, perhaps?


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Old 02-20-2009, 04:33 AM   #4
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Actually it might make a good mod. The problem is really the same problem that Bioware hit. After the end of KII Where do you go? Do you head off to the Unknown regions? What do you do there? Where does the story go... really?

Might see why Bioware chose the 300 year gap...


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Old 02-21-2009, 04:31 AM   #5
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That, I do. Actually.

Any storyline I have thought of thus far has a significant level of disconnect from K1 & K2 and be sort of abstract. Halfway between the definitive and "unoriginal" K1 and the open ended "indefinite" K2. So I guess if I were going to make a story, I'd need ingredients of both which were successful and then innovate something else on top.

It is just figuring out how saving the galaxy would fit in...then again when you figure that in 300 years there will be an all out Armageddon regardless and in several thousand years (long after the true sith Armageddon has come and gone) the war torn and tired sith and the remnants of a fractured republic will still be at war with one another. Until they are destroyed by one of their own who wish to commit it to secrecy.

Still, lots can happen. Even in a single year in the galaxy--certain things must come to pass, lots of stuff must transpire one way or another.

So far as Villains...somehow or another something always manages to slip through unnoticed.

Knowing a few other things about the MMO might be nice. Knowing a bit about the canonical future is also good. The catalysts for some of those things related would make for some good plot devices.

--Even if I got a wild hair, I doubt I would share it early on. Still it is nice to see what my fellow LF counterparts (and ones elsewhere) think. Like and dislike. Expectations, and what is not expected.

Maybe just a tale with only a few things connected to other stories... In any case, yes, it is quite a challenge to think of things that would suffice for a storyline to fit.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:10 AM   #6
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I think TOR is, like the obvious notion, a mix of the fact that looking at K2's ending, its rather hard to get a good story to continue the KOTOR franchise, and making a game in the Old Republic timeline, even if for this there is a 300 year gap, rather than the four, almost five year gap between K1 and K2.

But the one thing i heard in those interviews with Bioware about TOR, something along the lines of "Rather than just KotOR 3, this has a potential to be KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6.". While i admit that it would make KOTOR way to much like the Scary Movie films, that is if they would be separate games.

But the notion of coming up with a story for K3 that could not only have the needed "looseness" that a KotOR game needs, along with continuing the series, is a feat(pun intended). If only Obsidian didn't have to deal with the "We want a Christmas release" crap from LucasArts, maybe it would be feasible for them to do a serious K3.

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Old 02-21-2009, 07:13 AM   #7
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I have an idea for KotOR, And Personally I think its good... but since I cant make mods it will never happen. And I have good ideas but I can write diaglogue... So my ideas are weak there too.


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Old 02-21-2009, 07:34 AM   #8
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See that's been my problem with KotOR III all along. With TSL having killed the jedi off, you either have to play as one of the jedi you trained during TSL, or you have to have a great deal of time in between. Another option is, you could go off to fight the "True Sith" following in the footsteps of Revan and the Exile. This time as a padawan just leaving the academy(that way you don't have to be an amnesiac).


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Old 02-21-2009, 09:25 AM   #9
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A mod of Kotor2 that essentially acts as a Kotor3 you say? I like the idea (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=195653).


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Old 02-21-2009, 10:56 AM   #10
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No, a mod isn't offical, and not being official I doubt I could get into a mod enough to play it. It would need a VERY strong story.
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:38 AM   #11
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Doomed to failure.

Everyone would just argue over the plot, and it would take months to do.






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Old 02-21-2009, 12:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
Everyone would just argue over the plot, and it would take months to do.
months? methinks if someone is going to make a mod that is on the same better quality than TSL that will basically make a new game will take several years. If TSLRP is only restoring a bunch of content from TSL and it takes over 4 years to add all content and do bug testing, than it will take a long time for a mod of this magnitude to be made using only the tools we have made for ourselves now, along with any new tools that will probably be made in the mean time.

long story short; someone would have to have a lot of patience and not look at forums for extended periods of time (people will be yelling at each other about the plot) to complete a mod of this magnitude.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #13
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One has already been made people. KotOR III: The Jedi Masters
And it is amazing.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:41 PM   #14
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eh, I'm plenty happy with the MMO atm. If the MMO fails, then maybe.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:49 PM   #15
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There have been tons of threads either the same or similar to this one. If anyone even considered doing a project like this. FAIL! Oh, and The Jedi Masters is not a Kotor III -- it is a total conversion


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Old 02-21-2009, 06:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Christos K View Post
I have an idea for KotOR, And Personally I think its good... but since I cant make mods it will never happen. And I have good ideas but I can write diaglogue... So my ideas are weak there too.
Well either its basic crux or no; Visit my profile sometime. Like I siad you have your ideas, I have mine.
I won't judge it. In fact I only give input whe it is asked for--and I can either be real nice about it or I can be like Master Vrook.

I would be comparing it and checking it for certain things.

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A mod of Kotor2 that essentially acts as a Kotor3 you say? I like the idea (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=195653).
Saw it and I'll look over it again.

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Originally Posted by GeneralPloKoon View Post
No, a mod isn't offical, and not being official I doubt I could get into a mod enough to play it. It would need a VERY strong story.
Strong story was the idea. It also would be canon compatible even if it ain't official.

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Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
Doomed to failure.

Everyone would just argue over the plot, and it would take months to do.
Try years. However, the way one gets around that either doing it all yourself (EEEK) or getting people to park their pride because you have already written it all and there is no room for debate, which I suspect silveredge did. Save for a few questions how much research he did on a certain point or two, as well as needing to credit some stuff he has obviously borrowed, his mods came out just fine. Oh and maybe work on the dialogue and writing a bit so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

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There have been tons of threads either the same or similar to this one. If anyone even considered doing a project like this. FAIL! Oh, and The Jedi Masters is not a Kotor III -- it is a total conversion
Knew that, firstly.

Second, Well I never said I was actually considering doing a mod project now did I?

--just getting general thoughts from peers.


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Old 02-21-2009, 07:15 PM   #17
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I doubt I would ever play a Kotor 3 mod. Most likely it would just be there to please Revan fanboys and have a teenage style romance subplot like in Kotor. I would probably only play it if it actually had something original going for it. (Like a separate mini game or completely new models and modules)


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Old 02-21-2009, 08:14 PM   #18
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Play the Jedi masters. It is a K2 mod that acts like a K3.
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:22 PM   #19
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I'd go for it if the following things are done:

1. Extensive research in Star Wars lore is done, ensuring that it does not conflict with any established continuity, or with the upcoming MMO (I'm a continuity whore).

2. The most creative fans get together to write a story that is plausible and not too "fanboyish," as well as believable and likable characters.

3. Good writers go over everything with a fine-toothed comb, ensuring that all grammar is correct, as well as all terms properly rendered (such as "Force," which is always capitalized, and "light side" and "dark side," which are never capitalized). We all know how atrocious fan-made dialogue can be in the way of grammar and in-universe terminology.

4. This is optional, but I'd rather the mod be made for a game with a newer engine, such as Mass Effect (if BioWare ever releases modding tools) or any other newer game where such mechanics as Force powers and morality points can be implemented.


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YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS

Last edited by Zerimar Nyliram; 02-22-2009 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Typo.
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:33 AM   #20
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I doubt I would ever play a Kotor 3 mod. Most likely it would just be there to please Revan fanboys and have a teenage style romance subplot like in Kotor. I would probably only play it if it actually had something original going for it. (Like a separate mini game or completely new models and modules)
Interesting. True most modders are too subjective to ever make something original and inspiring.

Is the whole significance to the galaxy absolutely, necessarily a must-have? That you alone are so utterly important? Why? Seems to me this is one thing that, alone, would kill any cooperation modders would have, let alone a story that would have any kind of pull.

@ general population:

What elements* do you consider critical for a good story and yet still starwars-y?

*:not being individual features, pretty please. Rather aspects of story progression both major and minor...and inbetween. Like the "ingredients" of a good meal rather.

What could you live without? What elements would make it not a KOTOR?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikmin View Post
Play the Jedi masters. It is a K2 mod that acts like a K3.
So a mod story making things a little clearer in a general sense? OKay, but what would prevent infighting about differeing points of view on certain matters? Or would options be available to flesh these aspects out? Would that not make man more questions appear once answers are gleaned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I'd go for it if the following things are done:

1. Extensive research in Star Wars lore is done, ensuring that it does not conflict with any established continuity, or with the upcoming MMO (I'm a continuity whore).
Me Too. In fact, that is a decidng factor in how I judge mods and SW works in general.

Quote:
2. The most creative fans get together to write a story that is plausible and not to "fanboyish," as well as believable and likable characters.
What would be an objective standard for recognizing the most talented?
It would seem that if a standard of this did not exist, that it would be done arbitrarily.

Quote:
3. Good writers go over everything with a fine-toothed comb, ensuring that all grammar is correct, as well as all terms properly rendered (such as "Force," which is always capitalized, and "light side" and "dark side," which are never capitalized). We all know how atrocious fan-made dialogue can be in the way of grammar and in-universe terminology.
Indded. As well, there needs to be an in depth analysis of writing style and effectiveness. One of my biggest gripes about silveredge's brotherhood of shadow mod--its early release anyways. The little things are critical and make all the difference, I agree.

It can be quite a challenge to make a concise, to the point, detailed, nuanced, fitting, intriguing, lasting piece of writing. And ultimately remain true to form.

Quote:
4. This is optional, but I'd rather the mod be made for a game with a newer engine, such as Mass Effect (if BioWare ever releases modding tools) or any other newer game where such mechanics as Force powers and morality points can be implemented.
Hmm. That would have to be explored in depth on all the technical aspects. It might also prolong production. Still, a valid point, though.
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Old 02-22-2009, 11:50 PM   #21
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Play the Jedi masters. It is a K2 mod that acts like a K3.
except its barely voiced, poorly put together and is not canon. it has some interesting ideas and it has great potential but its hard to play without wincing.


i think it should have some sort of cooperation between Revan and the Exile. Some story about what Revan was gearing the galaxy up for. actual voice actors. Canonical i.e. Revan lightside male, exile lightside female, the threat should be what TOR refers to.


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Old 02-23-2009, 04:06 AM   #22
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except its barely voiced, poorly put together and is not canon. it has some interesting ideas and it has great potential but its hard to play without wincing.
Thanks for the warning, I guess...

Quote:
i think it should have some sort of cooperation between Revan and the Exile.
OKay. Why?

Quote:
Some story about what Revan was gearing the galaxy up for.
Which would be the point. Whether this point would be made in a direct way, or more of a roundabout way...I cannot be certain.

Confirmed by SW:TOR is actually kind of a good thing, here.

Quote:
actual voice actors.
OH? And how would you propose going about finding the originals? Let alone pay for it??? I mean, who better to voice it than the original ones?

Quote:
Canonical i.e. Revan lightside male, exile lightside female,
There is something simple I'd like to interject here... but I feel even that small morsel would be a little too revealing at this point.

However, on a side note, yes. I am a whore for canon. But what do I really care? I'm not really working on a storyline for a mod. ...............Or am I?
Quote:
the threat should be what TOR refers to.
I have a question for you: If it were seriously going to be any kind of KOTOR3 that fellow fans would appreciate, especially now that this (a MAJOR clue and one of the burning questions from before TOR's unveiling) has been revealed and tackled, don't you think that it would have something about it in its release? That it should have something about it in its release?

Thanks in advance.


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Old 02-23-2009, 07:33 AM   #23
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I talked to Logan23, head of Revenge of Revan mod and he said he is trying to make it to be k3




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Old 02-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #24
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Thanks for the warning, I guess...

OKay. Why?

Which would be the point. Whether this point would be made in a direct way, or more of a roundabout way...I cannot be certain.

Confirmed by SW:TOR is actually kind of a good thing, here.

OH? And how would you propose going about finding the originals? Let alone pay for it??? I mean, who better to voice it than the original ones?

There is something simple I'd like to interject here... but I feel even that small morsel would be a little too revealing at this point.

However, on a side note, yes. I am a whore for canon. But what do I really care? I'm not really working on a storyline for a mod. ...............Or am I?

I have a question for you: If it were seriously going to be any kind of KOTOR3 that fellow fans would appreciate, especially now that this (a MAJOR clue and one of the burning questions from before TOR's unveiling) has been revealed and tackled, don't you think that it would have something about it in its release? That it should have something about it in its release?

Thanks in advance.
i should probably clarify.

by real voice actors i meant real people not computer voices like TJM. and the reason id like something between the two of them is because in the canonical ending the exile leaves to find revan. and the reason i was saying it should be what TOR refers to and it should have the canonical characters is because Trex refers to his mod as a fanboy K3 and Logan23 is making a mod that he is referring to as K3 and as far as i know neither of them are going with the story.


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Old 02-23-2009, 03:55 PM   #25
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Hey everyone,

I just want to touch on a few things,…

Revenge of Revan like The Jedi Masters is a fanboy kotor3, since legally no person can call theirs officially kotor3.

I understand that you guys are looking for a Mod which will not only connect with the past two kotors but also connect with TOR, in turn making it the closes thing to a cannon kotor3 Mod.

I’m happy to tell you that Revenge of Revan will do all this and allow you to choose the sex/gender of Exile and Revan as well as if the endings were darkside or lightside. When TOR was released I was able to tweak my plot slightly so that it will not conflict with the story in TOR (as of this moment).

You will not only find out what happen to Revan and The Exile but there will be some new features like the new Lightsaber creation system and many other surprises.

I know everyone wants voice acting for every single part but that is close to impossible. I know later on I will be tackling this issue, later on in my production.

I know no matter how good my or anyone else’s mod there will be people who wish it had more or it was a little different and that’s cool because what created the modding community…. imagination, the ideas of what if this could be changed or added which has led to great mods as wells as mod tools. And I look forward to sharing with you all the Mod: Revenge of Revan, with special thanks to all the people who helped in the production.

Keep modding

Logan

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Old 02-23-2009, 05:19 PM   #26
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Sounds cool but I think out ought to change the name, really. "Revenge of Revan" sounds kind of corny; plus, when we get into Revan as a light sider, we encounter the same problem as with Revenge of the Jedi: Jedi do not seek revenge.


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YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
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Old 02-23-2009, 05:27 PM   #27
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I understand what you mean,...with the title but...
I assure you that once your done playing you will understand why its called Revenge of Revan.

Logan

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Old 02-23-2009, 08:23 PM   #28
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personally i have been looking forward to your mod Logan as just that a very good mod, i did not know, however, that you would be doing what you have just said. probably my fault as i dont read every page of every thread. now that i know this is what your doing i will be waiting ever more intently for its release. No offense to Trex's mod but yours seems to be of a higher caliber. i would also love to see anyone else's attempt at an as close to canon K3 mod as possible. once i find a job (for some reason no one wants to hire a seventeen year old high school graduate) im going to soup up my computer and buy some editing tools for kotor so that i can join all of the excellent modders on this site. back on topic. i eagerly await Revenge of revan and would love to see other attempts as well.


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Old 02-23-2009, 10:36 PM   #29
Zerimar Nyliram
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Well, how about at least making it "Revan's Revenge"? Sounds so much better.


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Old 02-25-2009, 08:10 PM   #30
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I'd just like to clarify, I'm here to see ideas and opinions of fellow fans.


Fellow fans, what Story Elements captured you most? What did you like/dislike? What makes them similar to the rest of the franchise? What alienates it?

You might help me understand where you are coming from by seeing what genres you are referencing for both good and bad.

I guess while we are on the subject, I have noticed threads calling into the spotlight the little nods and winks to the movies. Throws and parts familiar to SW fans. While most find this to be acceptable in some form, even welcomed, others find it (with increasing frequency) distracting and unoriginal.

*WHAT* is so unorignal besides these? Please give specific examples (not too broad or narrow). What kind of things "turn you off" about official stories? What irritates you about fan mods?

My aim would be to try to get as close to the feel and professionality of as well as storytelling aspect as possible to what is official as well as maintain originality... and not stepping on toes all the while.

Admittedly, a mod like this would face a bit of the same problem as the prequel movies because the future is set in stone more or less. I guess this would have to be offset in some ways--which would be taken into consideration to do the best job possible.

Friendly reminder: This is not an advertising page for your own home made mods, though I do appreciate the input here as well. Just don't get carried away.

@TREX's jedi masters, I'll give you a full fledged review when I finally get back around to K1. I am glad someone has done something and someone had to be the first.

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Originally Posted by Druganator View Post
i should probably clarify.
by real voice actors i meant real people not computer voices like TJM.
Ah, which reminds me I have a few files to convert for silveredge for his SR expansion. --Yes, I can do voices.

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and the reason id like something between the two of them is because in the canonical ending the exile leaves to find revan.
Considered.
Quote:
and the reason i was saying it should be what TOR refers to and it should have the canonical characters is because Trex refers to his mod as a fanboy K3 and Logan23 is making a mod that he is referring to as K3 and as far as i know neither of them are going with the story.
Indeed.

After some consideration, I probably would be much more humble than to actually call it a K3, BUUUUUUT, I am somewhat familiar with the storytelling style present in general to SW...hell even if english is not my passion, writing stories was a strength of mine--even my college professors would say it.....I'm not so sure actually. One thing I can appreciate about "Uncle George" is that he was a tinkerer. Mentality: It is always subject to scrutiny because it is my work, my art, my piece, my brainchild, ___it___is___mine. Long and short: You ultimately have to live with it.

I do believe I know how to remove the self reflective elements to my stories. Admittedly, learning a bit of Shaolin "detachment" is a help here ...however, there were many great storytellers throughout history who did not.

Looking at Karpyshyn's work here...good...I liked it...still a few things could change about it to make it better I guess. I'm not Drew K. So I cannot say for certain about him.

There is a bit of conflict for story development with the elements of these:
Set in concrete storyline and conclusions vs More open and phillisophical storyline and conclusions. I suppose it is somewhat relative to what the subject/mission is. And consider how it compares to the overall story and the ultimate place int the universe of SW.

People who liked K1 and didn't like K2 or verse-vice-a, all had good points worth considering.

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Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
Hey everyone,
Revenge of Revan like The Jedi Masters is a fanboy kotor3, since legally no person can call theirs officially kotor3.
KOTOR can still be in the title, though.
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I understand that you guys are looking for a Mod which will not only connect with the past two kotors but also connect with TOR, in turn making it the closes thing to a cannon kotor3 Mod.
Who isn't looking for that? (that wants it of course) However, we all have different ways of going about it.

@ modders with mods released, or are similarly aspiring I do give thanks for your input. Certainly it shows what all I would have to compare to.

Quote:
I’m happy to tell you that Revenge of Revan will do all this and allow you to choose the sex/gender of Exile and Revan as well as if the endings were darkside or lightside. When TOR was released I was able to tweak my plot slightly so that it will not conflict with the story in TOR (as of this moment).
That will be interesting to see, then.
Quote:
You will not only find out what happen to Revan and The Exile but there will be some new features like the new Lightsaber creation system and many other surprises.

I know everyone wants voice acting for every single part but that is close to impossible. I know later on I will be tackling this issue, later on in my production.

I know no matter how good my or anyone else’s mod there will be people who wish it had more or it was a little different and that’s cool because what created the modding community…. imagination, the ideas of what if this could be changed or added which has led to great mods as wells as mod tools. And I look forward to sharing with you all the Mod: Revenge of Revan, with special thanks to all the people who helped in the production.

Keep modding

Logan
Sure thing. I have not really done much modding wise. Though I am familiarizing myself with some things like the KOTOR tool. I am currently working with Audio programs. Etc. (Ironic I have to disable my sound in order to even play K2!)

My machine is not the highest end it could be, and I still require modifications both in hardware as well as software. Which takes considerable investment. I can't afford to spruce up for only pet projects unfortunately. Since this is at odds with my other hobbies...well...


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Originally Posted by Druganator
i eagerly await Revenge of revan and would love to see other attempts as well.
Yes, thank you as well from me. I shall look into your guys' mods and see what is doable. For now, I'm just loooking on.

In general though, I'd prefer it a well thought out process. Plan first for all large projects. Organization is admittedly not a strength of mine. However it is not impossible for me.

Thoughts?


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Old 02-25-2009, 10:32 PM   #31
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if you were to make a nodding team I would love to write and voice act for this mod. I can literally quote star wars history from 25,000 years before episode 4 until about 80 years after. I would love to help create something that could plausibly fit into that storyline. I know it wouldn't be canon but it could be very close and still be open ended. I would love to be a part of a mod that I myself would play and I hope others wild want to. if anyone is interested please say so and we could start on something. I am currently unemployed and inbetween highschool and college so I have nothing but time. I would love to write a story and voice lines if others would be willing to model script and every thing else involved.


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Old 02-26-2009, 04:07 AM   #32
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This is just a shot in the dark because I don't even own it, but wouldn't it be simpler just to use NWN2's toolset and try to make a KotOR3 module for it?


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Old 03-09-2009, 07:42 AM   #33
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if you were to make a nodding team I would love to write and voice act for this mod.
Noted. Not sure if I'd want to. But just in case, I'll thank you in advance for now, should the day ever come.

Ah, voices. Yes. Though I can do some voices myself, I wouldn't mind having some extras along, myself. One can only do so much.

Errhm. I write my works. You write yours. Am I open to suggestions? Sure.
Seen it enough...there are already some major things you are heading for that I'm not. There is a story for each of us. I don't wanna get in your way, and I'm rather particular about mine. Please try to understand. It isn't that I wouldn't appreciate help (I would indeed), but it is more a matter of artistic direction. Or something like that.

I've seen this quite a lot in a multitude of different areas: TV production, music, entertainment, authoring & publishing.

I would want each story written to be the product of their own writer. Otheriwse, it's like the critics above said: fight fight fight.

If you were writing, I'd keep my story of what I'd want to myself. I will help you make yours no matter how much I disagree. I am only along to advise...for the ride so to speak. That's just something about the professionalism aspect I incorporate into my attitude for these sorts of things.

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I can literally quote star wars history from 25,000 years before episode 4 until about 80 years after.
As can I to an extent. Well actually I know select slots of it. Which has made me well liked by my college's anthropology club.

Read up on the legacy comics--130 BBY. Then you will be complete.

Quote:
I would love to help create something that could plausibly fit into that storyline. I know it wouldn't be canon but it could be very close and still be open ended.
I have yet to see if the other mods have uncovered certain aspects of these things in their implementation. And if so, how.

Mind you I already have many of these thought up for myself on paper. No, I will not share them here. The only sharing I will do is when and where it is appropriate in confidence with those I can trust.

Quote:
I would love to be a part of a mod that I myself would play and I hope others wild want to. if anyone is interested please say so and we could start on something. I am currently unemployed and inbetween highschool and college so I have nothing but time. I would love to write a story and voice lines if others would be willing to model script and every thing else involved.
We should talk a little more. No rush to PM me just yet, my inbox is like 98% full, currently. However, mind you what I said above. Also it is good to have several stories running for yourself. as well as several misc. things and bits otherwise unutilized and not used, but just there.

I'd give you some good dirt, but there are some things I'd want to keep for mine to make my story unique. If you are wise you will do the same.

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Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
This is just a shot in the dark because I don't even own it, but wouldn't it be simpler just to use NWN2's toolset and try to make a KotOR3 module for it?
NWN tools are on the KOTOR modding roster--look it up in holowan.


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Old 03-11-2009, 01:06 AM   #34
Darca Lar
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:34 AM   #35
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NWN tools are on the KOTOR modding roster--look it up in holowan.
While some of the tools for NWN were used at one point, with the release of TSL some became defunct and ones had to be written to handle the new data fields. So not many of the NWN tools are relevant to modding these games anymore. The links are maintained for posterity and that they can be handy for some types of modding in KotOR I mostly.

Also not to rain on your parades but this kind of mod is beyond the scope of one person to pull off, and those vaunted "team" total conversion mods rarely, if ever, produce something viable.

Lastly, I see many, many, many mod team threads and I always see tons of volunteers for 'story' or 'dialog' writing, and frankly those are not really necessary positions. If you truly want a mod project to actually work out instead of volunteering for a useless thing like dialog writing you need to become familiar with the 'guts' of the game (modeling/scripting/file editing/etc.) to actually be useful to a team project.

Just my


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Old 03-11-2009, 05:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
NWN tools are on the KOTOR modding roster--look it up in holowan.
I meant using NWN2 and its toolset as the basis for the mod instead of just modding KotOR2. I think that the end result could be superior and the implementation would be simpler.


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Old 04-01-2009, 11:39 PM   #37
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This is just a shot in the dark because I don't even own it, but wouldn't it be simpler just to use NWN2's toolset and try to make a KotOR3 module for it?
Thanks for the idea. I'm looking all around but google is only leading me to forums about it or to nwn1's toolsets...

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Originally Posted by RedHawke View Post
While some of the tools for NWN were used at one point, with the release of TSL some became defunct and ones had to be written to handle the new data fields. So not many of the NWN tools are relevant to modding these games anymore. The links are maintained for posterity and that they can be handy for some types of modding in KotOR I mostly.

Also not to rain on your parades but this kind of mod is beyond the scope of one person to pull off, and those vaunted "team" total conversion mods rarely, if ever, produce something viable.

Lastly, I see many, many, many mod team threads and I always see tons of volunteers for 'story' or 'dialog' writing, and frankly those are not really necessary positions. If you truly want a mod project to actually work out instead of volunteering for a useless thing like dialog writing you need to become familiar with the 'guts' of the game (modeling/scripting/file editing/etc.) to actually be useful to a team project.

Just my
Thank you.

Well, for what it is worth, I'm actually now considering making a few mods to improve my "usefulness". I absolutely agree except I'd contend that "necessary" does extend to story writing at some point. Otherwise it'll just feel like flat pointless gameplay running around in modules and killing enemies and doing stuff.

The point of this thread was to gauge what fans' reactions are and why. I know a successfully created total conversion is rarely ever viable, even "added content" mods have left me scratching my head. However, I'd like to point out that one reason OUTSIDE the technical, for why these conversions seem to "suck" in the eyes of fellow fans is the story (or lack thereof). That and I take it (so far) that a fan created K3 mod is scrutinized for

1) not being official, regardless how well made or flawless it is
2) having the audacity to try to be such as a K3

So what I've gathered thus far is nobody would really be up for any kind of total conversion mod unless it is 'good' in every aspect without outrageous claims.

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Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
I meant using NWN2 and its toolset as the basis for the mod instead of just modding KotOR2. I think that the end result could be superior and the implementation would be simpler.
Would you care to chat with me in private on this?

Anyhoo, yeah. I am looking into stuff. Nothing too awfully big. Just starters and fun stuff.


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Old 04-20-2009, 09:28 PM   #38
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A slightly off-topic starting point here, but regarding VO's - I've only come to the community recently and have spent a couple of months lurking, but it quite frankly amazes me that, given the diversity of members spread around the various 'main' KOTOR forums, and the fact that a lot of members use several of them under the same usernames, no one (as far as I can see) has thought to utilise that community to recruit, how to put it, 'stand in' voice actors.

What I'm driving at is that surely, between us all, we must have people who can do good approximations of the original KOTOR cast voices? And surely there are enough of us who can work wonders on sound editing to get a polished, professional quality recording (assuming a decent mic is used in the first instance - no, not the one that's built into your webcam - SM58 vocal mic's or something similar)?

I know that the thought of a Carth impersonation is a skin-crawler at first thought, but I'd be surprised if we couldn't assemble a good team of forumites, perhaps those who don't have the modding skill necessary in other areas, who'd be more than happy to voice lines written for various mods, at least as long as the mod they were being asked to voice a part in was more than just a vague idea which would never get off the ground. Personally, I do an awesome Yoda (even if I do say so myself) though I'm yet to find a KOTOR-era Character I can get right - though I reckon with practice I can get Jolee down pretty well, possibly HK with a fair bit more practice too. Pitch, intonation and frequency can all be changed as desired by a dedicated sound engineer too, so if the right people coud be found, it's more than do-able. I've been wondering about this because, quite frankly, nothing ruins a mod more than unspoken dialogue. Thoughts?

On K3 story and themes, to stay on topic - I really think, especially as this wouldn't be an official canonised LA release, that it's time to experiment with the grey areas of the force. The usual light/dark thing just doesn't make sense in a lot of contexts, especially when a character with light side mastery is slaughtering their way through ranks of indigenous creatures (that poor Tusken enclave - I could just have run when I annoyed the storyteller but, no, I had to kill 'em all... over and over again... ). Not that I'm saying that the light/dark side isn't centrally vital to the themes and roles played in the SW universe but, as has been discussed elsewhere, playing lightside frequently involves masses of deception and patronising of alien species (and slaughter! mustn't forget that peaceful non-passionate, non-ignorant serene approach to a problem), etc, while the Sith at least are honest about much of what they do and represent - so I'd like to see a storyline which embraces the grey - Bindo and Kreia are the most intriguing characters in the games, are they not?

And also - no, absolutely NO storyline that involves a planet being blown up, destroyed, decimated, bombarded or otherwise left irreparably inhospitable. Let's get as large a chunk of realism into a storyline as we can (without losing the fact that it's fiction) and realise that an occupation is a planet killer, because the culture is the planet (in a sci-fi context - bad episodes of TV sci-fi aside, it's always global culture and politics in an intergalactic setting, unrealistic as that very tenet is), not it's buildings. Yes, I know that it's a SW theme. Yes, I am very bored of it now.

Also, the 'oh my gosh! We somehow missed an armada of *insertenemyname* hiding out on this abandoned moon!' needs to be, at the very least, severely reworked before it can be credibly used again. With KOTOR and TSL the massive invasion force element works well where used, as it fits first the initial setting and then the subtler approach of Nihilus and Sion in TSL, but a third wave of Sith striking from somewhere wouldn't work too well for me. A bunch of Dark Jedi who were used sparsely and were programmed to be severely testing recurring,levelling-up opponents (think Jedi Knight and Outcast) would be superb, but they would need to fill a slot like the one occupied by the Jedi in TSL. Other massive invasion forces? If they were done well, sure - but the Republic would have to surrender or fall early in the story, or else have you in the middle of intense and pitched warfare everywhere you go (think Onderon part 2 on a heavy dose of multi-stim), with the republic seriously losing it, to be believable. How many more times can it survive when it's already on it's knees?

Maybe move things to the mid rim or core worlds, too. A change of locality would be good, though longer-range flights could of course be a part of it still.

Lastly - and, I know, people will hate me for this - but you wouldn't have to be a Jedi, y'know? Star Wars managed just fine from '77-'97 with very few Jedi involved. It's a really rich universe when it's allowed to breathe, and I still see no real reason why a melee fighter couldn't use a lightsaber, admittedly clumsily, without Jedi training. To put this in perspective, I can use a sword to a pretty competent degree, but no master ever trained me - I just realised that I needed to keep the sharp bits away from my soft, fleshy meatbag exterior. Maybe Adum Larp has acquired a range of knock-off short sabers, powered by tainted crystals from Dantooine, and he's now hawking them in down-town Coruscant? I'm just saying, there's a galaxy of opportunities (and smugglers, scouts, soldiers, bounty hunters, assassins and diplomats) out there. Or, if Jedi PCs are a must, make it either a believable starting proposition, of a logical and realistic transition, no more prodigal Jedi or lvl 1 weaklings. Starting at lvl 10 would make sense, for instance.

Right, hope that's some of what you were asking for GTA:SWcity, and apologies if I got too specific or rambled too far off point (and I'm laying the minefield ready for those who want to harm me for suggesting no Jedi or planet destruction ). Great thread, btw!
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:46 AM   #39
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Welcome to Lucasforums, Apprentice Greenwood. Glaad to have you on board.


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Originally Posted by Apprentice_Greenwood View Post
A slightly off-topic starting point here, but regarding VO's - I've only come to the community recently and have spent a couple of months lurking, but it quite frankly amazes me that, given the diversity of members spread around the various 'main' KOTOR forums, and the fact that a lot of members use several of them under the same usernames, no one (as far as I can see) has thought to utilise that community to recruit, how to put it, 'stand in' voice actors.
Is this some kind of offer?

Quote:
What I'm driving at is that surely, between us all, we must have people who can do good approximations of the original KOTOR cast voices? And surely there are enough of us who can work wonders on sound editing to get a polished, professional quality recording (assuming a decent mic is used in the first instance - no, not the one that's built into your webcam - SM58 vocal mic's or something similar)?
My webcam has none.

A $10 radioshack + a dollar tree amateur anchoring mic.

Also some studio experience. No equipment.

Quote:
<snip> perhaps those who don't have the modding skill necessary in other areas, who'd be more than happy to voice lines written for various mods, at least as long as the mod they were being asked to voice a part in was more than just a vague idea which would never get off the ground.
This was a thread to toss an idea around and why. If you are up for recruiting, we have a wonderful area here called Holowan Laboratories.

Quote:
Personally, I do an awesome Yoda (even if I do say so myself) though I'm yet to find a KOTOR-era Character I can get right - though I reckon with practice I can get Jolee down pretty well, possibly HK with a fair bit more practice too.
What of accoustics and analog (the good old fashioned kind *without* computers or fancy equipment) sound production methods do you know?

What of digital sound do you know? What are your prerequisites? I presume you have come in talking on this becuse you have some background?

Quote:
Pitch, intonation and frequency can all be changed as desired by a dedicated sound engineer too, so if the right people coud be found, it's more than do-able.
There are all kinds of tools available for free and others for a reasonable price.

Audacity for one.

Quote:
I've been wondering about this because, quite frankly, nothing ruins a mod more than unspoken dialogue. Thoughts?
OR badly done voice overs. Amongst a host of other things large and small.
This isn't even going into what is needed for the technical side of things.

Quote:
On K3 story and themes, to stay on topic - I really think, especially as this wouldn't be an official canonised LA release, that it's time to experiment with the grey areas of the force. The usual light/dark thing just doesn't make sense in a lot of contexts, especially when a character with light side mastery is slaughtering their way through ranks of indigenous creatures (that poor Tusken enclave - I could just have run when I annoyed the storyteller but, no, I had to kill 'em all... over and over again... ).
Have *you* played through all possibilities?

Quote:
Not that I'm saying that the light/dark side isn't centrally vital to the themes and roles played in the SW universe but, as has been discussed elsewhere, playing lightside frequently involves masses of deception and patronising of alien species (and slaughter! mustn't forget that peaceful non-passionate, non-ignorant serene approach to a problem), etc, while the Sith at least are honest about much of what they do and represent - so I'd like to see a storyline which embraces the grey - Bindo and Kreia are the most intriguing characters in the games, are they not?
Ugh...this is what I used to sound like.

They are, However, even they eventually had their alignments. Look, maybe you can start another thread? I had set this one to die on a certain date.


Quote:
*brevity*

Yes, I know that it's a SW theme. Yes, I am very bored of it now.
Then I don't understand, are you looking for help with writing your story?

Mod technical help? If you have something, then get to it and refine it. Put it through peer review for testing. Everyone has their own ideas. However: What is your ultimate goal with the mod? I mean here in boring old reality?

Quote:
Also, the 'oh my gosh! We somehow missed an armada of *insertenemyname* hiding out on this abandoned moon!' needs to be, at the very least, severely reworked before it can be credibly used again.
Already steps ahead of you for on this for antagonist, but thanks though.

Quote:
With KOTOR and TSL the massive invasion force element works well where used, as it fits first the initial setting and then the subtler approach of Nihilus and Sion in TSL, but a third wave of Sith striking from somewhere wouldn't work too well for me. A bunch of Dark Jedi who were used sparsely and were programmed to be severely testing recurring,levelling-up opponents (think Jedi Knight and Outcast) would be superb, but they would need to fill a slot like the one occupied by the Jedi in TSL. Other massive invasion forces? If they were done well, sure - but the Republic would have to surrender or fall early in the story, or else have you in the middle of intense and pitched warfare everywhere you go (think Onderon part 2 on a heavy dose of multi-stim), with the republic seriously losing it, to be believable. How many more times can it survive when it's already on it's knees?
These are all considerations. I do agree. However you might not like what this would require. Especially if you already have a preconceived idea or set of notions of just what the story should be. In this you might also be forgoing or overlooking certain aspects.


While those *not* facing enough financial hardship to prevent them from playing SW:TOR might get cranky and say just let the MMO handle it, I am willing to at least indulge you. This isn't exactly the place, though.

I'm considering being the "Storyline Scrooge" of lucasforums. In fact consider this my official announcement: If anyone has a mass conversion mod, and you want a skeptic's POV...drop me a line. Warning: Please be absolutely sure you want to do this and DO NOT take it personal.


Quote:
<snip> I still see no real reason why a melee fighter couldn't use a lightsaber, admittedly clumsily, without Jedi training.
Well so did I...BUT the "canon comittee" decided upon some kind of "special" status to attach to lightsabers with the inclusion of the RPG element in video games. So they kid of screwed up the ambiguity and universal freedom it actually once had there.

Quote:
(self trained swordsman)
So am I but I have also learned a bit of fencing and kendo. I get where you're going with this, but to be honest there is only so much one can learn or accomplish being self taught. So far as SW, fine. There are characters. However, even they received some formal training. Read starwars.wikia.com sometime. Explore it.

Relevance to mod: SO You have your ideas as to how the character levels up and progresses. Fine.

Quote:
<snip>

Right, hope that's some of what you were asking for GTA:SWcity, and apologies if I got too specific or rambled too far off point (and I'm laying the minefield ready for those who want to harm me for suggesting no Jedi or planet destruction ). Great thread, btw!
Well thank you at least for your efforts and whatsits. I was not quite looking to others for stories. Everyone has their ideas for what a conversion mod should be. If you were critiquing storylines...this ain't where you do it...

I was just tossing some ideas around and also getting a general consensus form fellow fans here at LF. But what you want to make may not be what you ultimately want to achieve. They may be two VERY different things.

I am seeing what exactly it is that others DON'T like about these things. This was an exercise for myself and a chance to peer into the minds of others who may potentially be interested or those who aren't and why. It's a learning experience. Still, I'm also paying attention to what works and what might be unique enough to stand out, it is a point of reference.

Other than that, maybe put a bit of brainstorming to the speculations and suppositions of what happens in the times that are not covered by games or movies or comics...etc.

If you have something more, start a thread of your own, PM me or anyone else of interest here on the forums...At that, Welcome to the forums. Look forward to seeing you around and "May The Force Be With You!" (mtfbwy)

Now please, vote and let this thread die peacefully.


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:22 AM   #40
Apprentice_Greenwood
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SWCity, no offence meant here by not following your closing comments, but I think you've missed the entire point of my post, or else I've missed yours. Mine was addressing the original subject of the thread, with some inference on VO's, and then simply addressing the point you made 2 or 3 times, lastly I think in post #30, as briefly quoted below;

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
I'd just like to clarify, I'm here to see ideas and opinions of fellow fans.


Fellow fans, what Story Elements captured you most? What did you like/dislike? What makes them similar to the rest of the franchise? What alienates it?

You might help me understand where you are coming from by seeing what genres you are referencing for both good and bad.

I guess while we are on the subject, I have noticed threads calling into the spotlight the little nods and winks to the movies. Throws and parts familiar to SW fans. While most find this to be acceptable in some form, even welcomed, others find it (with increasing frequency) distracting and unoriginal.

<snip>

*WHAT* is so unorignal besides these? Please give specific examples (not too broad or narrow). What kind of things "turn you off" about official stories? What irritates you about fan mods?


Thoughts?
I wasn't passing any comment on my or your mod ambitions and plans, and thought I was adding to the discussion as you originally requested. Apologies if I have misconstrued this.

Thanks for the welcoming also BTW, I really don't see how you've come to many of your conclusions on what I have posted, but the advice is welcomed nonetheless. Oh, and yes, I've played KOTOR through with, I think, all possible options (not with TSL yet, though), with reference to the Sandperson Enclave I was joking about what I consider one of the more humorous light side blags you can get away with in the first game. And, yes, I've also played with a perfectly neutral character, and it was incredibly good fun
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