lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: death Star II...useless
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 12-27-2006, 04:52 AM   #1
Nancy Allen``
Banned
 
Nancy Allen``'s Avatar
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,948
death Star II...useless

I think the Death Star in ROTJ wouldn't have been nearly the threat of the first one. Here's three reasons why.

1. The Emperor said that it was fully armed and operational, yet in the film (it's a diffirent story for the games) it seems to be pretty defenseless. No turret guns, no on board fighter squadran I could notice, it seems to rely on a fleet escort and it's shield. I'll get to that in a moment.

2. Just how powerful is it's main gun? We see it destroy a Rebel ship but how effective would it be on a planet?

3. If it were to go anywhere the Death Star would be without it's shield as it has to rely on it's generator. Even were they to be built on other planets it would be vulnerable in transit and the Empire would not be able to build one anywhere. For that matter, could it move at all?

What are your thoughts? To be honest we don't get a good look at what it's capeable of, but it's probably reasonable to say that it has everything the original did. It might not either, which is why based on what is seen I think it's not as fearsome as maybe it's thought as.
Nancy Allen`` is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-27-2006, 10:04 AM   #2
MachineCult
Vincit Amor Patria
 
MachineCult's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Disneyland?
Posts: 2,657
1. When calling the second Death Star "fully armed and operational", I believe he was refering to the battle stations main purpose as a giant superlaser, which was fully armed and operational.

2. I always thought that you could specify how powerful the beam was depending on the target.

3. The Death Star I could move, it had 123 hyperdrive generators, the second one would have undoubtedly been able to move also had it been completed.

If it had been completed then it would have had more than the original, it was 900km in diameter whereas the first Death Star was only 160km. It was more formidable than the Death Star I even in its unfinished state.



"For where ever there is a n00b, there is MachineCult to make him cry and cringe."
- Halo_92

MachineCult is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-27-2006, 10:23 AM   #3
RC-1162
Liquidious Fleshbag
 
RC-1162's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,447
Current Game: SW:TOR
Forum Veteran Contest winner - Fan Fiction Helpful! 
But Nancy makes a point with her third Q, MC. what would they do for shields? did they plan to build an on-board generator? because that's the only way it would be feasible.

@Nancy: shields are usually deactivated in transit because nothing can hurt them in hyperspace that's why the baddies rely on Gravity generators to pull a ship out of hyperspace and THEN pummel it to space dust. a thing of the Death Star's mass would require A LOT of energy invested in a gravity generator, and i don't think anyone would be willing to waste all that money on constucting one


Duct Tape is ALWAYS the answer
RC-1162 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-27-2006, 11:00 AM   #4
Sabretooth
鬼龍院皐月
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,365
10 year veteran! 
I think the generator was used as a temporary shield for the Death Star till it's completion. Quite likely that one of the things they were working on at the time of the attack was a Supersized Portable Shield Generator.

For the first question, refer to the fine Englishman's post.

For the second too, refer to the Brit.


Sabretooth is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2006, 06:51 PM   #5
Jan Gaarni
Grand Moff
 
Jan Gaarni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,806
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
The shield on the surface was indeed only in place to protect the construction of the second Death Star.
Once completed it would have just the same equipment and more as the first Death Star.

The Death Star is designed with 2 things in mind: Fear factor, and the ability to destroy a planet.




Empire At War Moderator
&
SWGalaxies Moderator

- What we do in life, echoes in eternity!
- May the pants be with you!

A smile is the shortest distance between people - Victor Borge!


Custom Avatar by Wraith 8
Jan Gaarni is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-31-2006, 06:34 PM   #6
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
Once completed, it could destroy any kind of capitol ship, considering it was armed with uncountable turbolasers. That's how the rebs were capable of destroying the first model: They used only fighters.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-01-2007, 03:01 AM   #7
Mercid
Rookie
 
Mercid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: If I cared, I wouldn't threaten Admins.
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Just how powerful is it's main gun? We see it destroy a Rebel ship but how effective would it be on a planet?
maybe instead of the planet they shot the planet's sun instead...


Mercid is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-01-2007, 04:01 PM   #8
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Well, when finished the main gun should be able to destroy a planet from further away, and there is no hole to shoot torpedos into the core... when finished.

And yes when finished there is no need to power a shield from a backwater planet of carebears.
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-09-2007, 08:00 AM   #9
blh765
Lurker
 
blh765's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Here's my answer to your second question:

Well, the first Death Star blew up Alderan with it's superlaser, and the Death Star II was supposed to be even stronger. So, in a sense the Death Star II's super laser should be able to blow ships and planets.
blh765 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-09-2007, 03:18 PM   #10
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,355
Current Game: Skyrim, Macross PS2
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
How do we know some of the fighters weren't from the DS?

And Han always came out of hyperspace with his shields up.


Last edited by Prime; 01-09-2007 at 03:48 PM.
Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-15-2007, 04:05 AM   #11
Emperor Devon
36 Wings, 365 Eyes
 
Emperor Devon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,479
Current Game: Ass Effect
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
Well, the Empire hadn't even finished building the second Death Star yet. Hardly surprising that it would have some shortcomings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
We will be great failures one day, you and I
Emperor Devon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-15-2007, 04:13 AM   #12
Nancy Allen``
Banned
 
Nancy Allen``'s Avatar
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,948
"Now, witness the power of this fully armed and operational battle station!", but the points are well made.
Nancy Allen`` is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-15-2007, 07:31 AM   #13
Rabish Bini
Sydney Roosters Genius
 
Rabish Bini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NSW, Aus
Posts: 2,128
Current Game: KotOR III
Maybe the the standard turrets are concealed?


Yes
Rabish Bini is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-17-2007, 09:00 AM   #14
The_Catto
The Rhythm Schism
 
The_Catto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New South Wales, Australia.
Posts: 1,199
Current Game: KotOR
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
^^^ How would they be able to fire when the time arises, if they are concealed?

They wouldnt need a shield for Hyperspace (as some poeple have already pointed out.
And they would need a really big and powerful shield generator on board.
But, that wouldnt seem a big problem, what with the size of the DS and the power magnitude of its superlaser.

And in referrence to the "fully armed and operational battle-station" i'm pretty sure Palpy was referring to the superlaser. That was operational, and with the fully armed part. The shield generator down on Endor seemed to be pretty powerful to opertate something as huge as the DS.

The_Catto is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-24-2007, 09:53 PM   #15
Maphisto86
Rookie
 
Maphisto86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 153
Um as for the Death Star being without defense turrets that is untrue. Before the Rebel fighter go into the superstructure of the battle station you can see them dodging blaster bolts from turrets as well as many TIE fighters. Obviously the second Death Star had hangers not to mention the fact that a large Imperial fleet lent their own starfighters to the base's defense.
Maphisto86 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2007, 02:29 AM   #16
jedispy
 
jedispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Left side of the coin
Posts: 828
Current Game: Metroid Prime 2
I used to have the Death Star 1 and 2 tech manuals for the old SW RPG. It described that the DS2 didn't have the ventilation port weakness that was exploited by the Rebs in ANH. Rather than large vent ports like on the DS1, they were much smaller and more numerous. However the DS2 was still in the construction phase, so it had entire huge sections exposed.

I must agree with others that when Palpatine said that the station was operational, what he meant was that the superlaser was operational. As for turbolasers and self generated shielding, it's a moot point. The shield generator on Endor was still emitting the shield, and the superlaser could fire through it. For all purposes the Death Star 2 was completely protected. Add in the full might of the Imperial armada (extreme overkill) and by all sane means it ought to have been a flawless victory for the Empire.

The biggest weakness on the DS2 operation was the Emperor's overconfidence (just as Luke says). Emperor P didn't count on the Ewoks being able to reinforce the small rebel task force on the moon. Because of the Ewoks, the rebels were able to lower the shield. Add in Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader crossing to the LS) killing the Emperor. According to EU sources, the Emperor had been performing battle meditation to coordinate the Imperial fleet and give them courage. According to Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Imperial fleet went into complete disarray after the Emperor was killed. If you think about it even with the DS2 destroyed, the Empire still should have been able to win. Just compare the two fleets. (We get a good idea of how big the rebel fleet is just before and after they make the jump to hyperspace. The Imperials fleet is visible right after the DS2 fires the first time. It's WAY bigger than the Rebel fleet).

Because the Imperials were without the battle meditation for the first time, they lost the will to fight.

Even with whatever secondary defenses the DS2 might have had operational, none of them would be able to withstand a collision with a super star destroyer (a.k.a. the Executor).

No I definitely would not say that the DS2 was useless. I think it was just super unlucky.


Jedispy - SOTE Mod Administrator, server/technical administrator, mod author, forum admin/moderator, web administrator, programmer.
Click to read the latest SOTE MOD news
jedispy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2007, 09:07 AM   #17
Nancy Allen``
Banned
 
Nancy Allen``'s Avatar
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,948
I remember the Imperials having orders to only prevent the Rebels from escaping. Didn't the Emperor want to use the Death Star to pick them off one at a time? So yeah his ego was so great that it defeated him.
Nancy Allen`` is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2007, 01:55 PM   #18
jedispy
 
jedispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Left side of the coin
Posts: 828
Current Game: Metroid Prime 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
I remember the Imperials having orders to only prevent the Rebels from escaping. Didn't the Emperor want to use the Death Star to pick them off one at a time? So yeah his ego was so great that it defeated him.
True, but I'm talking after the death star 2 was destroyed, the remaining Imperial fleet should have been more than enough for the rebels. Did you see how many star destroyers were there?


Jedispy - SOTE Mod Administrator, server/technical administrator, mod author, forum admin/moderator, web administrator, programmer.
Click to read the latest SOTE MOD news
jedispy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2007, 02:32 PM   #19
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
if I remember right after Palpy blows up the Imps either run away or stay and get their buttocks handed to them.

Well, Ds2 is far from tottally completed, and it would be quite unwise to think that an honest folk like Palpy would tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... I mean, palpy would be unlikely to say things like "fully functional and operational, except for that big hole where you can fly in all the way to the core and blow it up with a few shots, as noted on map MuD-1789C part B section F"

I mean, Its "somewhat" fully functional, to the degree that it "should" be able to take down the alliance attack if the shields are intact.
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-25-2007, 03:12 PM   #20
jedispy
 
jedispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Left side of the coin
Posts: 828
Current Game: Metroid Prime 2
I think the biggest thing is that Palp was using his Sith ability to bring Luke to the breaking point. Of course the station was not FULLY operational. Much of the internal superstructure of the Death Star is storage and housing for ships and other vehicles. Of course that stuff wasn't finished. That much is apparent right away in ROTJ. Jerjerrod (however you spell it) didn't know Vader was coming, and was complaining that the Emperor expects too much with so little work force. That's when Darth Vader pimp slaps him and said "Make me some pie woman." Well...o.k. maybe not, but it would have been cool.

We know from EU sources that most of the Imperial fleet retreated. Those who stayed behind had it handed to them on a Mon Calamari silver platter.

And in closing I feel I must say "Jar Jar blows."


Jedispy - SOTE Mod Administrator, server/technical administrator, mod author, forum admin/moderator, web administrator, programmer.
Click to read the latest SOTE MOD news
jedispy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Star Wars > Original Trilogy > death Star II...useless

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:51 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.