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Old 06-12-2007, 09:38 PM   #41
razorace
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Someone please bug ticket the saber throw then so I'll remember to do it.

As for running during a duel, it's a completely legit tactic. As long as their FP holds out, they should be able to stay in the fight if they're smart. If the problem is something with the regen rates (or with meditate) that can be dealt with as a seperate issue.


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Old 06-13-2007, 01:18 AM   #42
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I agree with Hocks. If you want to run away right now, there are enough tools to do so even if you are in critical dodge points with lowered speed. It should be difficult to run away, not a cake walk.


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Old 06-13-2007, 03:01 AM   #43
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I've always been against limiting people like that, for example running away. Sure it's still part of your gut ripped out when you've fought your opponent for like 5 minutes and then you've almost got him and he runs away. With the current changes to Force powers and Force Speed we shouldn't need the lowered critical threshold though

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Old 06-13-2007, 03:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
I've always been against limiting people like that, for example running away. Sure it's still part of your gut ripped out when you've fought your opponent for like 5 minutes and then you've almost got him and he runs away. With the current changes to Force powers and Force Speed we shouldn't need the lowered critical threshold though
You can already run away with the current speed of critical dodge points. Why make it easier? I don't see the point in this. That's why the changes were implemented to begin with.


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Old 06-13-2007, 01:19 PM   #45
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Since we fixed bunny hopping, this isn't needed anymore. If they decide to run, they either:
1. Turn around and are vulnerable to Force Powers.
2. Move backwards and don't move as quickly as the attacker who's running forward.

My problem is that your movement speed suddenly drops and you get trapped (even if you're staying and fighting).


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Old 06-13-2007, 03:19 PM   #46
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And if we get the runspeed changes in, it's really much harder to go full-on assault against a gunner without slowing down too much.

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Old 06-13-2007, 08:27 PM   #47
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No, not really.


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Old 06-14-2007, 12:39 AM   #48
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Well, my opinions might change if speed is altered. But until then, my opinion stays the same on the lowered speed of critical dodge points.


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Old 06-14-2007, 03:27 AM   #49
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I hope we'll get to try the new speed changes in the next release as something *official*. I've currently changed g_speed indefinetly on my own server and we've gotten used to it and are enjoying it

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Old 06-14-2007, 02:16 PM   #50
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I usually use g_speed 225 when I play against bots. (As well as g_gravity 880, because I think we fall too slowly with 800, but it's not a must).

Although, I got a question, I'm surprised that walking has a speed of 190-200... I thought it was like half of the running speed. Or maybe I misunderstood what you said, Max.
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Old 08-04-2007, 07:14 AM   #51
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The saber throw idea is real good, doing the same damage as a normal swing is realistic. i hate it when i throw a light saber and it does a almost no damage as if the saber suddenly becomes weak when you throw it. Yer so make saber throw do the damage of a normal swing but make it so its easily blocked if the opponent has a light saber, also increase the speed of the throw and decreasing the range of throw to balance it.... as it will move faster now the saber throw is a good "surprise" attack in a certain situation. So its useless in light saber to light saber combat unless the opponent turns there back or gets disarmed.

The increased speed and damage of the light saber throw will also make it good in a jedi to gunner situations because its stupid throwing a saber against a gunner which leaves you wide open and even when the saber hits them they dont die but you get fired to death.

In this way its more realistic and people will actually use saber throw now. (nobody has used when i played)

i don't like the idea of run speed changes as the games oready quite slow paced, and most of the time your better of walking anyways..... sounds a bit crappy.

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Old 08-04-2007, 07:57 AM   #52
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This game is far from slow paced?

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Old 08-04-2007, 10:02 AM   #53
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light saber combat is 75% walking if not more.... to use guns you stand still anyways other wise accuracy goes kaput. we move any slower its gonna be a a pain to get around the map.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:41 AM   #54
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Then you mean lightsaber dueling is slowpaced, not the game. I disagree on the gunner part.

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Old 08-04-2007, 10:44 AM   #55
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what do you mean disagree?? theres nothing to disagree im stating a fact.. gunners cant run because they looose mishap twice as fast.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:46 AM   #56
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The gunner part of the argument, that gun battles need to be slow in order to be effective, that's the point you were trying to make, and that's what I disagree on.
My reasons for this are very very obvious, and if you want to know them I suggest you get your ass on hamachi and play with my crew.

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Old 08-04-2007, 10:51 AM   #57
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so your saying is that even though you loose mishap twice as fast while running and shooting people still run with guns and are effective??


but even if we lower the running and walking speed gunners and jedi's will both move slower so there isn't any difference. i was saying that we shouldnt modify the running or walking speed becasue the pace of game is good
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:53 AM   #58
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I am saying that situations with a slow pace of combat for gunners are rare, and running is not a problem.

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Old 08-04-2007, 10:55 AM   #59
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so what do you suggest we do then?
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:58 AM   #60
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What I wanted has already been done and worked on, if it's getting into the main OJP distro is the question.

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Old 08-04-2007, 11:03 AM   #61
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what did you want to be implemented to make gunning combat more slow paced?
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:07 AM   #62
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I did no such thing.
The changes we've made are in the hamachi meetup thread if you want to know them!

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Old 08-04-2007, 12:44 PM   #63
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Yeah they're excellent, though we'll need to change the e-11's dp damage to 3 from 2 on it's secondary Other than that maybe increase max jump height a bit more and we're set.

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Old 08-04-2007, 01:06 PM   #64
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excellent??? hmmm.


max jump height in a normal jump or a force jump?

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Old 08-04-2007, 01:09 PM   #65
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Force jumps ofcourse!

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Old 08-04-2007, 01:43 PM   #66
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hmmmm wait a sec...

after looking at things for a while i can see that there are some balancing issues.. force jumps are oready quite high i dont think we need them any higher. slower movement speed means gunners have advantages cause if you are seen at a distance your screwed... especially since theres no partial dodge against sniper... and e-11 blasters are faster shot now light saberists get a big kick in the groin..

and more fall damage and higher force jumps means that everyone will be getting jet packs and force jumps ... so i reckon that OJP enhanced will have balancing issues if theses changes are put in. Making snipers and jet pack users to good....

forget what I said.. these changes are bad i thought they where good at first cause it seemed realistic but after testing I see it causes balancing issues.

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Old 08-04-2007, 02:16 PM   #67
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Why change the e11 secondary DP damage? It's basically the same shot as the primary.


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Old 08-04-2007, 02:55 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbeholden
hmmmm wait a sec...

after looking at things for a while i can see that there are some balancing issues.. force jumps are oready quite high i dont think we need them any higher. slower movement speed means gunners have advantages cause if you are seen at a distance your screwed... especially since theres no partial dodge against sniper... and e-11 blasters are faster shot now light saberists get a big kick in the groin..
Partial dodging is not regular dodging. Partial dodging is when you don't have 30 dp to do a full dodge, but you dodge and take a little HP damage too. A fully charged sniper shot instakills anyway, and if you have a saber you can deflect it, otherwise, you can still dodge it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeholden
and more fall damage and higher force jumps means that everyone will be getting jet packs and force jumps ... so i reckon that OJP enhanced will have balancing issues if theses changes are put in. Making snipers and jet pack users to good....
I don't see the logic there? Increasing how high you can jump will make everyone buy jump? Everyone ALREADY buys one or the other. Jump's height is higher so it can compete with the jetpack's height, jetpack now costs 8 points instead of 4, if anything, this is more balanced.

The e-11 and bowcaster are faster, but have 2 DP damage instead of 5, as well as lower health damage to compensate for the almost doubled rate of fire. We'll probably have to put it up to 3 though.

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Old 08-04-2007, 04:14 PM   #69
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i think he's trying to discuss ideas rather than complain to you...


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Old 08-04-2007, 04:37 PM   #70
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Ok then.. i agree with your "increase rate of fire" idea. I don't think force jump needs a boost.... its seems fine. Jet pack needs 8 skill points instead of 4 which your right about. I dont think that movement speed should be lowered so because you said nothing about that then i guess you agree with me. Also i don't see any point in removing partial dodge but you obviously do so explain it.

I'm not sure why you think everyone buys jetpack or force jump... you don't have any evidents of that so you can't state that. If so then the increased jet pack cost will balance it.

you didnt say anything about the increased fall damage so i guess you agree then it will unbalance things... it will make jet pack users and force jump users to good and will unbalance things.

so far the only things I agree with is increasing jet pack cost and the increase rate of fire of E-11 and bowcaster in return for lower damage.

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Old 08-04-2007, 05:49 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbeholden
Ok then.. i agree with your "increase rate of fire" idea. I don't think force jump needs a boost.... its seems fine. Jet pack needs 8 skill points instead of 4 which your right about. I dont think that movement speed should be lowered so because you said nothing about that then i guess you agree with me. Also i don't see any point in removing partial dodge but you obviously do so explain it.
Slowed movement speed is a server specific option currently that slows down the pace of the game just for a tiny bit in return for more tactical and strategic combat, it also gives gunners more time to think when shooting jedi, and is far more realistic than what it was before.

Removing partial dodge came to mind because of complaints about it. If you can't dodge and do not have 30 dp or more you shouldn't be able to dodge. A lightsaber hitting you is a lightsaber hitting you regardless of where. Obi wan's shoulder and arm got SCATHED just a little bit and he was out of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeholden
I'm not sure why you think everyone buys jetpack or force jump... you don't have any evidents of that so you can't state that. If so then the increased jet pack cost will balance it.
Yes I do have evidence; my own personal experience. Also common sense is on my side here, no need to go further into discussion about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeholden
you didnt say anything about the increased fall damage so i guess you agree then it will unbalance things... it will make jet pack users and force jump users to good and will unbalance things.
Increased fall damage because you could jump off of skyscrapers and suffer minor damage. It also deterred people from using Force Fall, which is silly and ironic. How will more fall damage make jetpack users too good? So non-jetpack users that jump off of buildings willingly are supposed to be good? You make no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbeholden
so far the only things I agree with is increasing jet pack cost and the increase rate of fire of E-11 and bowcaster in return for lower damage.
You need to play this game more mah man.

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Old 08-04-2007, 05:53 PM   #72
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The increased fall damage will make jet pack users and force jump users to good so the increased fall damage will make them even more popular which in itself is a very bad idea.
(but i do agree it is realistic)

I only agree to the fall damage thing if we put force fall as a separate skill to force jump or make force jump more expensive. (also making jetpack more expensive will also make this more balanced)

Now that i know what partial dodge is ... good idea.

Good that you think the speed of movement shouldn't be changed (thats what really scared me)
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:58 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbeholden
The increased fall damage will make jet pack users and force jump users to good so the increased fall damage will make them even more popular which in itself is a very bad idea.
(but i do agree it is realistic)

I only agree to the fall damage thing if we put force fall as a seperate skill to force jump or make force jump more expensive.

Now that i know what partial dodge is ... good idea.

Good that you think the speed of movement shouldn't be changed (thats what really scared me)
Jetpack and jump users are already popular. The two skills are the most basic of basics and no jedi/gunner will be found without them.

Why do you want jump more expensive or force fall a different skill?

I want the movement speed changed.

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Old 08-04-2007, 06:01 PM   #74
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I dont think that any skill is a must.... i think it should all skills should be even. And i like the pace of speed the game is at

Force fall thing was just a suggestion.... forget it. I think now that its simpler if its combined like it is now.

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Old 08-04-2007, 06:02 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unbeholden
I dont think that any skill is a must.... i think it should all skills should be even. And i like the pace of speed the game is at
Yup, people have different opinions. Welcome to society!

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Old 08-04-2007, 06:03 PM   #76
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Let me more specific and conclude this conversation....


i disagree to the increasing of force jump which i think is bad as this will make force jump higher levels useless

i disagree to the slower movement speed makes gunners to good and makes moving around the map a pain

to tell you the truth I dont have any beef with partial dodge... we have to make it even. This is still a game... not real life. Players should be able to take a nick of a light saber and still be able to fight.

Ive just checked the E-11 and bow caster... i think there damage is oready quite low... and with secondary attack it actually fires quite quickly. Dont see why we need to make it any faster. If so then the change would be quite small. quite trivial to be arguing about as its not any thing that significant.

The only thing I agree on is the falling damage increase but this makes Jet pack to good, so increase jet pack skill cost from 4 to 8 (to make it even with force jump). In this way it's realistic and balanced.

Last edited by The Unbeholden; 08-05-2007 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:06 AM   #77
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If you're planning to increase maximum jump height, HOW much are we talking about, because if it's to compensate with the jetpack users, then in what manner is it being compensated?

Do you increase the height so they have to use less jumps to get to some ''high'' object where the jetpack user fled to?

Do you increase the height just for the sake of getting ''equal height'' as a jetpacker? (Which has no use imo unless you're planning to try and jump up and hit a jetpacker, jetpackers are way more mobile than jumpers)

And about the hybrid nerf warz in the beginning of this topic.
The hybrids need to get MORE skill points to get the same ''skill'' as gunners & jedi.

This is somewhat like:
Jedi trains 5 years, gets X or Y skill.
Gunner trains 5 years, gets X or Y skill.
Hybrid trains 10 years, gets X + Y skill.
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:10 AM   #78
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We're planning on giving Jedi more options and more maneuverability to be able to follow and follow up on their battles. It's not just gunners using the jetpack, and it's not just high obstacles in the way. Maximum jump height will be increased to however high people would want it to go, the idea I get from my testers is that it could be a small bit higher. Currently it's just enough to be able to jump on things you had to ledge-climb on before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha
MAORSKILL
This is somewhat like:
Jedi trains 5 years, gets X or Y skill.
Gunner trains 5 years, gets X or Y skill.
Hybrid trains 10 years, gets X + Y skill.
Hybrids can buy a lightsaber for 2 points and use it as efficiently as a Jedi who has put in more points and training into it*

Lurk moar!


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