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Old 06-24-2007, 08:54 AM   #41
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Agrizzled.

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Old 06-24-2007, 09:05 AM   #42
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DP always regens 6 per second (if FP >= 10), though.
But well, even if it's very low, it's still infinite ammo... so they should be able to reload a certain ammount of ammo, but after a big while (imagine a player playing FFA, he doesn't die for 30 min because he pwns all) he should run out of ammo. This makes Jedi last longer than gunners, while gunners could beat a Jedi when they are "fresh" and at full power.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:04 PM   #43
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Why not use both UDM's and ensiform's ideas? UDM's is good during a long match and ensiform's is good at the end of any LMS match.
Using one or the other is bad for gameplay. Using only UDM's idea, gunners winning an LMS match would be beaten by gunners that died. Using only ensiform's idea would he bad during long games of any type.

I think that these would be pretty good if balanced times were given to UDM's idea. (15 seconds is a long time.)


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Old 06-25-2007, 09:53 AM   #44
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This would mean everybody respawns between LMS rounds (I like), and gunners would be able to create ammo out of nowhere (I like, but not completely).

Gunners should have an ammo pool, which they use to manufacture their ammo that goes in the gun. Maybe we should make an ammo pool size skill (cheap) which increases the ammount of ammo that is held in the pool, so the gunner can refill his gun a lot if he spends points in this.
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:10 AM   #45
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And if the ammo pool's 0 as well, then what?
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:06 AM   #46
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as i said before....fisty cufs it works surprisingly well

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Old 06-26-2007, 03:25 PM   #47
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If ammo pool is on 0, then the gunner cannot recharge his gun anymore. That's life.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:45 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
If ammo pool is on 0, then the gunner cannot recharge his gun anymore. That's life.
That's a little harsh don't you think? Then gunners, once again, will not be able to last as long as Jedi. Or do you suggest, for some sake of realism, that they should not?


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Old 06-27-2007, 11:27 AM   #49
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That's exatly the point. Gunners are good on short term, Jedi on long term. A Jedi is meant to survive, while a gunner is meant to quickly take out his foes.
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Old 06-28-2007, 09:42 AM   #50
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If you want to have an ammo pool system and yet still give them limit their ammo pool...then whats the point of having an ammo pool? I mean why do you want an ammo pool system that serves no other purpose other than waste people's time to reload? The whole point now is how to let gunners have ammo without nerfing them totally

I think a player with good aiming skills should be given the chance to survive instead of /kill just so he can continue having fun

If you don't agree, you could always start a poll and see how many people are in favour of your idea
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Old 06-28-2007, 12:40 PM   #51
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The point of a limited ammo pool is not to let gunners have infinite ammo, that's all, because it's just impossible to have infinite ammo.
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Old 06-28-2007, 01:38 PM   #52
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Uh maybe a buyable ammo droid that you'd have to hide and protect that would give you ammo. Once it gets destroyed you could steal your enemies' one or use yours allies'. And yeah it could manufacture ammo using energy (from shield pickups? may drain your shield) in case of energetic ammo and -maybe- some rubbish in case of other stuff. It could automatically collect low amounts of materials when moving. It could be somehow remotely operated.
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:21 PM   #53
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how about we use this
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5396/shot0001tj3.jpg
you place it somewhere like the sentry droid and can be destroyed for balance issues so a player would have to hide it somewhere. Buying it with a skill points, it regens all your energy ammo so it dosn't allow unlimited missiles or det's and gunners can still have something to fall back on in long fights.

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Old 06-28-2007, 03:22 PM   #54
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Thats a good idea.


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Old 06-28-2007, 04:02 PM   #55
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Would't it be too easy to find and destroy? Atleast you should be able to pick it up and put in a different place. A feature to cloak it would be nice too.
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:15 AM   #56
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I like the idea, except the cloak part.

It should have a base pool of a certain ammount, and regen very slowly.
Once it's set, it should be pickable again.
But for balance issues, it should be destroyable (give it 50 hp or so), and it shouldn't regenerate it's pool while not placed (in inventory). So you can't just place it, empty it, pick it again and let it regen, you have to hide it somewhere to let it regenerate.
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Old 06-29-2007, 11:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShaman
I like the idea, except the cloak part.

It should have a base pool of a certain ammount, and regen very slowly.
Once it's set, it should be pickable again.
But for balance issues, it should be destroyable (give it 50 hp or so), and it shouldn't regenerate it's pool while not placed (in inventory). So you can't just place it, empty it, pick it again and let it regen, you have to hide it somewhere to let it regenerate.
No way! Then a large portion of a long game would be spent guarding the dispenser.
At least say "half (or even 1/4) recharge rate while in inventory".
The game would become so dull if you had to guard it while it was recharging.
Just make a benefit to have it out; not a requirement.

(Why aren't UDM's and ensiform's ideas good enough?)

In defense of UDM's idea, it is not infinite at a given point in time. (you have to finish a fight before you can recharge) How is that worse than a dispenser? Ammo dispensers would also charge almost everything at one time (not rockets or dets as said above).
An unlimited ammo pool would not result in four or more rockets being fired in succession.


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Old 06-29-2007, 12:14 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faelion
An unlimited ammo pool would not result in four or more rockets being fired in succession.
no just a guy camping some where firing them constantly and only rockets
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faelion
The game would become so dull if you had to guard it while it was recharging.
Just make a benefit to have it out; not a requirement.
or you just don't place it out until you need the ammo so then your no guarding it forever. i don't guard my sentry gun that much and besides just find a better spot to hide it. i can name quite a few out of the way spots to hide things in just the base maps alone.

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Old 06-29-2007, 01:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madcatmach2
no just a guy camping some where firing them constantly and only rockets
or you just don't place it out until you need the ammo so then your no guarding it forever. i don't guard my sentry gun that much and besides just find a better spot to hide it. i can name quite a few out of the way spots to hide things in just the base maps alone.
You don't guard a sentry gun; it shoots! If anything it guards you.

Camping isn't any worse or better with an ammo dispenser. If rockets did take 15 seconds then it certainly wouldn't be constantly.

Camping can be done with a disruptor more easily than a rocket launcher. Disruptors would get ammo from either, but if I remember correctly the ammo dispensers you want to use spill out ammo very quickly.

The reload time on a rocket launcher alone would be enough to get to him and kill him. Now, 15 seconds? Enough to chase him all over the map! (but he needs to be stationary so... there isn't a problem with stopping them)

Rockets are not an issue; disruptors are dangerous! More so with an ammo dispenser that resupplies them quickly.

However, no one has specified how long the ammo dispenser would recharge. Too short a time spams disruptors, too long is rather annoying. Either way it may be, just remember it doesn't take a fully charged ammo dispenser to provide a disruptor with a fully charged shot.


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Old 06-29-2007, 02:00 PM   #60
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Maybe make the ammo dispenser have a 100 ammo recharge potential, recharging 1 per second while set, and 1 per 10 seconds while in the inventory.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:44 AM   #61
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Hey they would not be THAT valuable to sit and protect it all the time. You can always look for dead (or not) opponents' dispenser.
If they were able to regenerate while in inventory I'd kill the whole thing. The trick is to hide it and come back when you're out of ammo making sure nobody follows you. As maps are not designed to hide things I'd give it cloak.
And the regen rate should be like 1 ammo point per 2-3 seconds. To get 100 ammo I'd take around 4 minutes. Of course once the ammo is in the dispenser you could grab the whole pool instantly.
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Old 06-30-2007, 01:42 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yango
If they were able to regenerate while in inventory I'd kill the whole thing.
Why so against having a reliable source of ammo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yango
The trick is to hide it and come back when you're out of ammo making sure nobody follows you. As maps are not designed to hide things I'd give it cloak.
Like you said, maps aren't designed to hide things. That means that there are only so many hiding places. That means that if you leave it somewhere, that place may be one of the popular hiding spots since it seems good (and thus not a good one). So there aren't good hiding spots; get it? If you find a dark shady corner, why wouldn't another gunner?

To sum it up again, dark places become the most obvious places to put them, so they may as well not be dark since everyone will put theirs there.

There would be dispensers in every dark spot. Sure, could be useful for gunners, but Jedi could just blow all of them to tiny pieces and the gunners would all have nothing at all.

By the way, would Jedi be able to see it with level 3 force sense?

Just let gunners have an item that recharges their gun after a long time standing still (or walking or something). (UDM's idea)


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Old 06-30-2007, 05:34 PM   #63
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Still, cloak is a bad idea I think, how to find an opponent's cloaked dispenser? And I'm not sure it could be done easily.
Also, there are maps where you can hide something easily, maybe not base maps, but big maps that we usually play on are fine to hide (jedi's home, racing something, naboohills...)
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:51 PM   #64
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I think a deployable ammo generator isn't realistic. Limited ammo is realistic. If you're running out of ammo too quickly, you need to take more ammo and the pistol, which has unlimited ammo.


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Old 06-30-2007, 06:04 PM   #65
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I personally don't have any problems with running out of ammo, but if we say that blasters shoot with pure energy they may use "personal shield generators" battery. Like 1 point of shield = 1 ammo point. Works like ammo pickups.
Lighsabers are unrealistic as well, cause they dissipate lots of energy producing heat and don't need any source of it.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:42 PM   #66
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This makes it a lot easier. Anyway the ammo management isn't a priority, is it?
And please don't start discussing lightsaber realism... I've already engaged in long debates about it, and trust me, it's unhealthy for everyone's brain. The best is to admit there is a very very powerful energy cell in the lightsaber, which has nearly infinite energy, and so the lightsaber can stay up long for hoooooours of OJP
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:21 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I think a deployable ammo generator isn't realistic. Limited ammo is realistic. If you're running out of ammo too quickly, you need to take more ammo and the pistol, which has unlimited ammo.
I always have a pistol and I don't have a weapon unless I can afford all of the ammo spots (the flamethrower an the other gear are the alternatives). Pistols have long intervals between shots; and ammo runs out during long matches for the other weapons.
(though I don't think that a deployable ammo generator is good; I think their should be some way to recharge)


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Old 06-30-2007, 08:03 PM   #68
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It's been established that blasters use a form of gas for ammo, not pure energy.


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Old 07-01-2007, 05:04 AM   #69
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I'm not surprised, since shots are plasma (gas being so hot that it loses it's electrons and becomes ions, so basically, hot ions). Although, jetpack uses fuel, and it regenerates, heh where's the mistake...?
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:21 AM   #70
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The funny thing is that Jetpack is supposed to be Jump's rival, with it's regenerative ability and such and the problem lies with it being too easy to buy alongside of Jump, which cancels out it's effect.

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Old 07-01-2007, 06:35 AM   #71
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Always the same problem, balance over realism... I'm probably alone with that mind, but I'd prefer an unbalanced realistic game, than a well balanced with ridiculous things one.
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Old 07-01-2007, 06:51 AM   #72
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"It's been established that blasters use a form of gas for ammo, not pure energy."
Uh, if those forms of gas are present in maps atmosphere there could be a device to separate and collect some, right? Again, alot of energy is needed to form plasma so my shield suggestion still applies.

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Old 07-01-2007, 07:14 AM   #73
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How about a seperate thread for blasters, reloading and ammo pools so we don't clog up an entire thread on one subject?

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Old 07-01-2007, 09:00 AM   #74
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Quote:
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Always the same problem, balance over realism... I'm probably alone with that mind, but I'd prefer an unbalanced realistic game, than a well balanced with ridiculous things one.
What? Balanced games are the only good ones! You cannot make one side more powerful. Games don't need to be realistic, but they do need to be fun. Getting KOed all of the time isn't fun if the main reason you got beaten is because you enjoy blasters more than a saber. Gunner battles shouldn't turn out like Kyle's first encounter with Desann. You probably could have beaten him if he was not invincible...

So, would you really enjoy realism over fun? I would not.


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Old 07-01-2007, 11:38 AM   #75
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Exactly as I said, except I didn't except Yango to agree with me <3

I prefer being forced to lose an amazingly realistic game than to be able to win an unrealistic one.

Here's an example:
I'd totally love a game where you are able to pick any Jedi in the geonosis arena, and try to survive against all those droids, knowing that you won't succeed anyway. If the game is well done, I don't care about losing. In this case, realism is more important than balance.
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:25 AM   #76
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Whoops I think meant "unless" not "until"..
I mean when you play with bunch of friends you can adjust rules so the game is balanced and at the same time has many possibilities. You usually can't do that on servers with heavy traffic.
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:29 AM   #77
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*Blinks* If you want to make it fair AND realistic, why not put a maximum cap on how many points of Force can be regenerated over one, ah, 'life' until the body simply 'gives out' and you can't generate any more?

Even Jedi have to sleep EVENTUALLY.


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Old 07-02-2007, 09:03 AM   #78
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If that were the case, meditation would help. But yeah I think we just need the recharge/slow ammo regen ideas.

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Old 07-02-2007, 09:04 AM   #79
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Well everyone has to sleep, but you can stay up for hours and hours in a row, can't you? So does a Jedi, and even more probably... this can be neglected in a game, because only few people will play 20+ hours in a row
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Old 07-05-2007, 02:19 AM   #80
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Meditation is not sleep.

I don't see what would inherently be wrong with a maximum regeneration cap. It effectively creates a semi-even playing field by saying both sides are going to wear out eventually. Wouldn't even need an ammo recharge gimmick.


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