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Old 06-28-2007, 07:49 AM   #1
RellioN
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kotor 3 combat system

I'd like to see a more complex combat system. I don't remember what I did in kotor 1, but in kotor 2 I just trained to master flurry and always use that because it's the strongest attack. Basically what I'd like to see is something like fighting styles for npc's that you can detect, which influence how much damage you do with certain attacks such as flurry, power attacks etc. or other combat styles that you can use. Sort of like paper, rock and scissors. Combat style 1 beats combat style two, which beats combat style 3, which beats combat style 1. Only a bit more complex then that.
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Old 06-28-2007, 08:12 AM   #2
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The reason why i like kotOR is because of the simple GUI and the way the game runs, i would prefer that nothing changes, the only thing they should do to the combat system is add more feats, like Flurry, Power Attack ect, more of those, but they shouldn't alter the way the combat goes, that would ruin kotOR IMO.

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Old 06-28-2007, 08:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RellioN
I'd like to see a more complex combat system. I don't remember what I did in kotor 1, but in kotor 2 I just trained to master flurry and always use that because it's the strongest attack. Basically what I'd like to see is something like fighting styles for npc's that you can detect, which influence how much damage you do with certain attacks such as flurry, power attacks etc. or other combat styles that you can use. Sort of like paper, rock and scissors. Combat style 1 beats combat style two, which beats combat style 3, which beats combat style 1. Only a bit more complex then that.
No, keep it simple, keep it fun.
Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Remember, you ARE playing a HERO, someone EXTRAORDINARY. You are supposed to pwn those meatbags, with only the boss that would pose any challange. I mean, Hack! In the pen and paper system things like stormies and other fodder don't even have real HP. Its a "wound it and its dead" game for them there. Consider them regular sith soldiers lucky.
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:10 AM   #4
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Better attacking animations would be nice, though.

I honestly don't care what kind of system they use for combat as long as it is fun and reasonably balanced. I'd prefer to spend a little bit of time having to actually fight and use feats at the proper time, rather than just clicking flurry 4 times and watching scrubs die. But whatever.




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Old 06-28-2007, 12:08 PM   #5
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I kind of like the idea, RellioN. I think the game at least could use a little more strategy in the combat department.

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Old 06-28-2007, 01:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mike Windu
I'd prefer to spend a little bit of time having to actually fight and use feats at the proper time, rather than just clicking flurry 4 times and watching scrubs die.
This is my point. all you have to do to win a fight is click flurry a few times, there should be more strategy involved.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:35 PM   #7
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I wish they could allow you to choose between the current combat system and one closer to that of Oblivion. At least allow that choice. It would make the game more interesting for those who prefer the OB way.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:54 AM   #8
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I wish you could use specific defensive techniques when lightsaber dueling. If anyone has played Sid Meier's Pirates they know that when dueling there are 3 different attacks and 3 different defensive techniques, each one corresponding to one of the attacks. I think that would add some strategy and prevent someone from using flurry (or any other attack) over and over. I also wish you could target specific body parts (i.e. hand gets cut off, can't hold weapon), but maybe that would make the game too easy.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aner21
I wish they could allow you to choose between the current combat system and one closer to that of Oblivion. At least allow that choice. It would make the game more interesting for those who prefer the OB way.
I can't see that ever happening. Way to many issues and effort to make them both work with the game.

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Old 06-29-2007, 01:03 PM   #10
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I'd like to see different animations and a more fleshed out advantages/disadvantages system for the lightsaber forms. Ex: Makashi looking more like Dooku's style, Form V(Shi Chen/Djem So) looking more like Anakin/Vader/Luke, Form III like Obi-Wan, etc.





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Old 06-29-2007, 01:46 PM   #11
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Well, bettter animations and graphics is obviously a given. I mean, kotor3 would be out some years in the future(if anything) so it would be a crime to use k1/2 quality animation and graphics.

But seriously, not everyone enjoys complex fighting sequence. I actually prefer spending more time on the story (and the pazaak table) rather than going out killing things. If I really want to kill stuff I would crank up something more kill oriented, like BFII.
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Old 06-29-2007, 02:33 PM   #12
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I'd like to see a more interesting combat to watch, something other than the same couple of swings and parries over and over again, but I agree with Poiuy on the rest.
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:55 PM   #13
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I wouldn't mind if they got rid of Flurry, Power Attack and Critical Strike altogether. The games are beatable without them as they are. But whatever happens, I hope they keep the D20 turn-based system - but just make the game more difficult.


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Old 07-01-2007, 07:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
But seriously, not everyone enjoys complex fighting sequence. I actually prefer spending more time on the story (and the pazaak table) rather than going out killing things. If I really want to kill stuff I would crank up something more kill oriented, like BFII.
At least make it more complicated that being able to run through the whole game just using force lightning.
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Old 07-01-2007, 11:29 AM   #15
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I'm fine with the combat system as is. I hate dying because I can't push a button or key fast enough.

BTW--master critical strike with a keen weapon does statistically more damage than master flurry.


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Old 07-02-2007, 10:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
BTW--master critical strike with a keen weapon does statistically more damage than master flurry.
Use flurry with dual blades and you'll see what's damage.


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Old 07-02-2007, 11:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
Use flurry with dual blades and you'll see what's damage.

Use keen with master critical strike, + master force speed, + dual blades, + juyo and you'll see a lot more damage than master flurry.
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Old 07-04-2007, 03:17 AM   #18
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Depends on targets really.
Keen/Master Crit works better on targets of lower AC/defence, where they kill faster than flurry sometimes.

Against high AC/defence flurry is better. Remember a critical is a critical only if it CAN HIT AND CONFIRM. Crits also suffer from targets that are immune to criticals.
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Old 07-21-2007, 01:27 AM   #19
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I'd like Left Handedness.

More kicks.

The RPG fighting style is something else--normally I'm an action fighter type...if I even have time for it. KOTOR series is one ofthe few rare exceptions 4 me.

As for its style, I knd of like it the way it is, just add more animations and some interactive stat changes for Hand differences.

Saber forms; all of them. It's rather intriguing. Each should have its own type of animations and be more in depth. Even if the info on the saber forms is not completely accurate in real life. Though, I disagree with the implications by those wookieepedia-ites as well as numerous others who seem to imply that kendo is necessarily THE rebuttle to fencing in respect to Djem so vs Makashi, I will say it makes for a more interesting game.
I'm probably kicking a hornet's nest here: I don't know exactly how the novelizations of AOTC and ROTS make it out to be, but as a real life practictioner of both euro and japanese swordsamnships: Dooku's style was more bastard sword (which makes sense since it had to be diverse deal with all other forms and varinat types one single saber, two single, one double saber etc.), and although it has elements of fencing, I disagree with that assertion that it is mostly fencing; It slashes too much. Any sword style can be graceful and elegant. Euro were unmistakably brutal, but jap has more skill. So anakin beting dooku, fine. Samurai beats swashbucler. BFD!--though it was not bladework but more perseverance and close range grappling that beat dooku. THAT in itself (I'd say reminiscent of KEN-PO) should be an EU fighting form. I further disagree that kendo 'necessarily' beats fencing--especially in a no holds barred setting. It could, but most of the time I have ever seen matches (rules or not, even masters dueling with decades of experience on both sides), the kendoist gets run through before he hits the fencer, or it becomes a match of goose chases. Occasionally the fencer gets tired out and defeated. If you don't believe me, rather than argue, go see and do it for yourself. "Makashists are particularly beautiful to watch"--fencing is NOT. Swashbuckling, yes. Kendo, yes. Kendo is not really a sword sport, it's a stick sport. (There are other japanese sword forms. Better, much better. Some of the best in the world that cannot be taught to just anybody who is capable--only the worthy). A Kendoist would need to know a bit of fencing's conduct and duel on that level, while making sure the opponent's blade point is not going to imaple him, and the edge of the blade, nay the blade itself, stays AWAY. It would not be like we all saw on ROTS if makashi were just fencing. Then again, Nick gillard was doing according to George Lucas' tases which prefers japanese culture as he has mentioned many times. The films it had little if anything to do with the saber forms, more a 1-10 system that was a mix of Kendo, Eido, and some fencing (both eppe/foil and heavy rapier) probably itegrated with cut and thrust (or hack'n'slash) swashbuckling.
However, fencing, was developed with the philosophy of "kill, move on to the next". Which I see that Juyo/Vaapad more than gladly has adopted. Fencing is thrusts, NEVER swings. Occasionally shunts and beats--mostly dodging and fighting in an aggressive and somewhat underhanded way. Very cheapshot. I still have bruises from 4 moths ago-march 2007.

More saber forms though. Jar-Kai (so that niman is not so redundant and pointless!), I hear shien on one hand was simply the saber vs blaster side of form 5, yet it is like form 8 or 9 also saying it is an invetred form of Djem So meant for saber to saber. Soresu should be interchangeable of saber Vs saber or saber VS blaster. I like Ataru--it also seems very similar to chinese acrobatic swordsmanship.

Keep form 7. Juyo is considered incomplete, however, with less jedi masters around, I do see an implication that it COULD have been a complete form at one time in its past prior to K2, possibly K1. Perhaps Exar Kun been the one to complete it (and thus predisposing his fall to the dark side)? Was it not he who developed the double bladed lightsaber form off a 2 single saber form? He could have completed it......

Or did Khavar actually invent it 45 years later? I never got to this part..... since I run my TSL on a computer way under spec I cannot get very far. Regardless, it appears off (presumably) Makashi and Ataru, and possibly Shien combined. 2, 4, & 5. Focus of Makashi--efficiency while lethal and practical, force assisted movements of 4 but staccato rather than flowing, and like 5 uses its passion for strength and overwhelms its opponents--though not with power and speed, but balance and speed while reflecting the opponent's fury and attacks back at it. Actually, the latter part of that was more Vaapad, Juyo sacraficed defense for offense. Perhaps it could be modified by the player? (HINT HINT)
Mace's doesn't have to be the only "special" form--just the only one on record.

In fact as a sort of homage to the great Bruce Lee, what about a sort of Jeet-Kun-Do way of forming a unique fighting stile after the sum of what you learn?

I like Maris brood's tonfa saber for force unleashed; I was actually going to go into THAT type for my tonfa saber thread but I was so busy with selling a strider style saber that I completely forgot that one. If the beam apperture were a little further away from the elbow I might be more comfortable, like it extends out past the elbow... Its history could be that it was developed along with early forms of sabers, but the order didn't like it due to the fact that it required the wielder to be aggressive--giving way to the dark side.

A new melee form, similar to Xizang hook swords would be awesome. A melee form that is anti-lightsaber...well for one or 2 sinlge sided anyway. The double bladed would tear it apart.

In any case,

More Hand to Hand. Perhaps even several forms for anti-weapons-IE, hand vs meleeist or lightsaberist like Fett, hand to blaster, hand to droid. Echani, teras kasi, and mandalorian combat arts. They made force arts, why not hand to hand?

I would ask that grappling and throws be involved like real street fighting, but that would almost demnd it to be an action game; so it'd have to be more like Street Fighter in RPG turn based format which doesn't sound too bad either, though it may make an overemphasis on combat. OR it may not.

As for action--I'll just stick to def jam, GTA, UFC, smackdown, saints row, or other fighting games for action--I love how customizable some are though.

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For the record MORE COMBAT! and more intriguing puzzles. AND LEFTIES DAMNIT!!!
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
Use flurry with dual blades and you'll see what's damage.
thats the point. you do too much damage with just one overpowered attack.
use makashi/ataru/juyo, master speed, be a sith marauder and use fury. then u pwn everyone. seriously. there whould be more attacks, each with advantages AND reasonable DISadvantages.for example, normal attack- blaanced. flurry-more hits, less chance to hit and less damage....etc etc.

and then about makashi. it rocks. you have all seen it in the movie(i love the kicking/choke action) with dooku. he COULD have beaten both of them. we all know it. it just didnt fit in the movie. its just the problem of not only makashi, but of all sith lords: they Fall, mostly not because of their opponents power, but their own errors and arrogance. they think that they can win everything. dooku shouldt have hold on that last saber lock so long. anikin shouldnt have jumped when obi had the higher ground,grievous was just plainly stupid, if i had 4 arms i would just lock 1 or 2 sabers with obi and cut his head off. thats my view, on the sith.

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Old 07-22-2007, 10:34 AM   #21
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See, the players (at least the ones that posted here) claim for a rejuvenation of the combat system. nothing as radical as leaving the d20 system behind, but that surely shows that combat needs to be improved o the next installment.


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Old 07-22-2007, 10:49 AM   #22
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Obss, what makes you think that Obi-Wan would have been stupid enough to allow himself to get in a saberlock with General Grievous?
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:58 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Obss Damell
thats the point. you do too much damage with just one overpowered attack.
use makashi/ataru/juyo, master speed, be a sith marauder and use fury. then u pwn everyone. seriously. there whould be more attacks, each with advantages AND reasonable DISadvantages.for example, normal attack- blaanced. flurry-more hits, less chance to hit and less damage....etc etc.

and then about makashi. it rocks. you have all seen it in the movie(i love the kicking/choke action) with dooku. he COULD have beaten both of them. we all know it. it just didnt fit in the movie. its just the problem of not only makashi, but of all sith lords: they Fall, mostly not because of their opponents power, but their own errors and arrogance. they think that they can win everything. dooku shouldt have hold on that last saber lock so long. anikin shouldnt have jumped when obi had the higher ground,grievous was just plainly stupid, if i had 4 arms i would just lock 1 or 2 sabers with obi and cut his head off. thats my view, on the sith.
Well that first part...mm yeh. The one hit kills thing is great for getting out of a pinch--but otherwise it makes for too easy a game. Maybe it should be like a giga attack special in mega man X? charge it up.....

Grey Jedi or the not so pompus and proud sith and jedi are truly wise.

Dooku was also getting .....up there in age. Obi Wan could have beaten Dooku with a few changes to his style.
I'm probably just a cynnical @$$hole, however If my student turned against me... I'd have probably dealt a fatal blow instead of just dismembering him. With a comment like "up yours!" or "You picked the WRONG side, anakin." ...ok I guess that's a bit of tommy vercetti as well. but still......
Ater ep3 I ultimately realized vader was not the great evil overlord he was made out to be. Obi Wan......well, wasn't detatched enough. But that's humanity for ya. Fate works funny as well--I suppose if obi killed anakin, someone would probably have off'd him in an unceremonious and anti-climactic way. Someone stupid and weak at one of those opportune moments.
Back to my other point: So far as makashi, I'll say it can be beaten by djem so; I will NOT say that their respecive styles they are supposedly based on (loosley at that) work exactly that way in reality...from personal experience... if you know your opponent can overpower you, you don't stand toe to toe and push.

So far as gameplay, If there was a combo system or something, what say everyone about that? It might make for some interesting stringed animations...I guess it's ok for an rpg style. But the only place I ever saw it was long ago in some game like legend of legaia... I wasn't too impressed or unimpressed. either way. Comments?

Live action turns based rpg like parasite eve is the only other suggestion I guess. My only experience besides that is...dragon warrior for the nes...1989. And yes-it STILL works.
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Old 07-24-2007, 02:40 PM   #24
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the main strategy in this game boils down to how you allocate your feats, skills, powers, and equipment.

and i think that is how these types of games should be.
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:53 PM   #25
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i agree that eventually just clicking flurry over and over gets boring
the rock paper scissors idea is good
or they could have combos
ie. flurry flurry power attack will give a damage bonus, and force power combos like force wave lightning
some of the combos you could use right away, others you could choose at level up
the enemies could have more health to make up for the combo advantage
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Old 08-16-2007, 11:42 PM   #26
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Maybe you could leanr the secret Lightsabber form Tulak Hord knew through some specila quest?

I Like the original combat system though. But it could use a few tweaks...
such as combo moves... Such as Stab, Kick, Punch, Body slam, double-kick crs two enemies... Back-punhc to counter sneak attacks... stab, slash, upcut, side/slash, stab-sidcut, flurry sets 1-5... Blaste rbolt deflection moves 1-8... whatever.


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Old 08-17-2007, 05:59 AM   #27
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Why would LucasArts need to wait for Bioware's Mass Effect? It's Epic's engine. But a Kotor III with Unreal Engine 3 graphics would rule, definitely!
That would turn a great RPG into a FPS, we hadly need another Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy.

I think that much more than "yet another Star Wars game" that we play over and over until it hits our shelves to gain dust, we need a game like KotOR that we wish play and play and play even after we finished it...

It's not just a game it's a story being told.
And if someone has doubts KotOR III would be a smashing hit, just take a look on how the original KotOR I and II forums at Bioware and Obsidian are still very active and updated.
I keep hearing new adepts are getting the game. I still see the games being sold...
Furthermore, Game of the Year, Awards, etc, that says a lot on how the fans wait the game.
Even more, that says a lot on how the game should be top notch to meet expectations.


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Old 08-17-2007, 07:54 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoBlood
That would turn a great RPG into a FPS, we hadly need another Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy.
Why would it? It'd just be an improvement to the graphics, no adjustment to gameplay... If there's one thing to shouldn't be altered, it's the gameplay, that's for sure.
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:09 AM   #29
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Personally I wouldn't mind another Jedi Academy - I liked it - but I would surely prefer an Kotor III RPG :-)
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:47 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcesious
I Like the original combat system though. But it could use a few tweaks...
such as combo moves... Such as Stab, Kick, Punch, Body slam, double-kick crs two enemies... Back-punhc to counter sneak attacks... stab, slash, upcut, side/slash, stab-sidcut, flurry sets 1-5... Blaste rbolt deflection moves 1-8... whatever.
To some degree we already have that, as you can do various attacks that are animated as kicks and punches when you are unarmed...

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Old 08-17-2007, 10:17 AM   #31
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One thing I'd like to see is commoners or thugs NOT using the same melee combat animations as the player character. Either that or take away the melee weapon proficiency feat from all thugs and commoners so they mostly just use blasters or stun sticks.

Also, as others have mentioned, make combat animations and stances that are unique to certain Saber Forms. Make Ataru look like Ataru (jumpin' around) and so on.

Another thing that would be interesting IMO is new combat feats that let you attack different parts of your enemy. For example, make a feat to knock the weapon out of the enemie's hand, a feat to cut off their arm, and a feat to cut off their head. Of course, it should only make sense to be able to get those feats if you have feats like "Lightsaber Specialization," "Lightsaber Finesse," or a certain Saber Form. Of course, using such feats should also probably give you a major temporary defense loss, so it can only be used against semi-weak enemies, and not bosses, either that or just make some characters immune to those feats. This could also affect your Force Alignment, whether or not you just disarm an opponent (spare him) for Light Side or just slice off his head after both arms (brutality) for Dark Side. Each attack would slowly alter your alignment depending on which one you use. Of course, some people might not agree with me and that's cool, it just something I would like to see.

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Old 08-17-2007, 10:23 AM   #32
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Eh, I myself love to be a Sith lord, use the form force potency, and force storm everyone.
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Old 08-17-2007, 10:55 AM   #33
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sykorevan...that would so rock

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Old 08-17-2007, 12:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Miltiades
Why would it? It'd just be an improvement to the graphics, no adjustment to gameplay... If there's one thing to shouldn't be altered, it's the gameplay, that's for sure.
I agree, gameplay is the only thing I hate the game. Apart from poor graphics (I really prefer KotOR I to KotOR II in this particular area, really!) and the famous bugs and glitches, I like the whole game. But gameplay, I can't enjoy. It's not gamer-friendly, it's hard to get used to and the indirect combat just gives me the creeps to see my energy going down and seeing "miss miss miss" messages.
But I like the RPG feeling nevertheless.
Making it FPS whould destroy the whole concept of the game.


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Old 08-18-2007, 08:28 PM   #35
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Also, as others have mentioned, make combat animations and stances that are unique to certain Saber Forms. Make Ataru look like Ataru (jumpin' around) and so on.
That is one thing they definitly need to add. And if your are hitting your enemis 5 times (by using flurry and force speed ect.) you should actually hit the enemy 5 times instead of just 2.
Quote:
Another thing that would be interesting IMO is new combat feats that let you attack different parts of your enemy.
That would be cool.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:34 AM   #36
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the main strategy in this game boils down to how you allocate your feats, skills, powers, and equipment.

and i think that is how these types of games should be.

Yeh, I guess that is why I am more of an action guy. Still have love for storylines and, yes, strategy. I'm still getting used to it though.
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