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View Poll Results: What would be the best solution?
TSA Watch List should be subject to Congressional oversight. 1 12.50%
TSA should be required to provide information on why a person is listed on their Watch List. 3 37.50%
Do nothing the Watch List make us all safer. 0 0%
Get over it you are completely overreacting. 0 0%
If George Bush says it right. It is right. 0 0%
There should be no such list. 4 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: TSA Watch List
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:48 PM   #1
mimartin
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TSA Watch List

Recently I took a trip that required me to travel by air. Mr. John Grahamís story is the same as mine and he tells it so much better than me.

http://www.alternet.org/story/23362/

I thought no big deal at first. I was a little inconvenient, but like the President says we must remain vigilant. They told me it was due to my common name and that if I summit the proper forms my name would be cleared. Got my answer today and my name will remain on the watch list. They will not tell me why, but said it should be a little easier the next time though the airport. Since I know Iím no threat to anyone besides myself I can not imagine what their problem is with me.

I believed this country was founded on certain concepts including innocent until proven guilty and due process. I guess those have been thrown out the window in the name of security. When the entire Constitution including the Bill Of Rights is thrown out for security then the terrorist have already won. They have gotten us to destroy our most cherished beliefs and principles.

Again I am not upset that my name is on the list or I would have written this back in May. Iím upset that there is no longer a concept know as due process in the country.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060506-6767.html

What would be the best solution?

I was going to make this a poll, but Iím clueless. If a mod could fix this I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you Stoffe

I actually like D best.

Mod note: Added the poll. ~M

Last edited by mimartin; 07-06-2007 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:21 PM   #2
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Real accountability for everyone in the government. That would just about fix it, I think. Of course, as long as this is set as a "omg terrorists! If we don't do <action> they will get us all!" it will never, ever have anything done about it. I do not find that terrorist action is likely to happen, and even if it does I do not find that they can do much damage (in relation to the sort of damage the government does by restricting freedoms). There is no reason to for such lists in this country to exist in the way they do.


"Words are deeds." - Wittgenstein
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:41 PM   #3
True_Avery
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F. There should be no such list.

And if they must have a list, then they can at least make it accurate. This is almost as bad as when we found out our phones are being tapped. They could at -least- tell you why you are on the list and being kept on the list instead of treating you like a threat.

As for what you can do... well, what can you do? They are going to keep you on that list I bet for the rest of your life under the paranoid delusion that you are a "threat to America". As long as the public and government are rocking back and forth in their corner mumbling "Terrorists. Terrorists. Freedom. Terrorists. Terrorists. ATTACK! Terrorists. Terrorists." nothing will be done.

I see no use in all these security measures anyway. They simply exist to tell the public "We are going to protect you", when they simply do it to make you -feel- safe. It is all an illusion to keep you calm and from asking questions. If terrorists are going to attack, if a kid is going to shoot up a school, if someone is going to shoot someone on the street, if someone is going to blow up a building, there does not seem to be a whole lot stopping you from doing so yourself. I doubt it is very hard to sneak something onto a plane or building to do harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
I believed this country was founded on certain concepts including innocent until proven guilty and due process. I guess those have been thrown out the window in the name of security. When the entire Constitution including the Bill Of Rights is thrown out for security then the terrorist have already won. The have gotten us to destroy our most cherished beliefs and principles.
I agree 150%

Terrorist want to instill terror. Guess they won.

Last edited by True_Avery; 07-06-2007 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:12 AM   #4
Totenkopf
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Congressional oversight? Thanks to them we have the IRS..... Basically, I don't trust them to look out for interests.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

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Old 07-06-2007, 12:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Congressional oversight? Thanks to them we have the IRS..... Basically, I don't trust them to look out for interests.
So you don't trust the Legislative branch, but do trust the Executive branch? What about the Judicial branch do you trust them?

The three branched are suppose to provide checks and balances against each other. It is a system that has work pretty well in the past, but today it is considered un-American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis
Real accountability for everyone in the government.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
As for what you can do... well, what can you do? They are going to keep you on that list I bet for the rest of your life under the paranoid delusion that you are a "threat to America".
Don't give children common names. If you are having a child and you have a common sir name do not give the child a popular first name. If your name is John Jones or Robert Williams you are on this list too.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
So you don't trust the Legislative branch, but do trust the Executive branch? What about the Judicial branch do you trust them?

The three branched are suppose to provide checks and balances against each other. It is a system that has work pretty well in the past, but today it is considered un-American.
Don't really trust any of them, but that's the cynic in me. Better a divided government stepping all over itself than one unified enough to really cause us trouble. The key words here, I guess, are are suppose to.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:01 PM   #7
Nancy Allen``
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How did September 11 happen? I'll tell you why, because terrorists were able to slip boxcutters through security. A friend of mine brought a knife through and this was after the terrorist attacks. September 11 wouldn't have occured if there was better security to prevent such objects going through, another attack can be prevented by employing air marshals. Saying you cannot fly because of your name or your country, religion, that's discrimination, as well as a slap in the face of America's democratic policy of being innocent until proven guilty. If you take away the ability for terrorists to attack then they won't be able to hijack planes.
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Old 07-06-2007, 08:17 PM   #8
Dagobahn Eagle
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There's a line here, though. On one end, you've got safety. The closer we get to this end, the less we'll be able to smuggle onto aircraft. Trust you me, airports don't have the least security. Anyone who thinks otherwise should visit a psychiatric hospital, where the search procedure litterally takes half an hour for each person and absolutely every item is looked through. Literally. They put your bag on a table, take out everything in it, and look through them. They use the hand-held metal detector bar thingie on everyone, not just Arabs and people who look suspicious. After 9/11, it certainly does sound tempting to move as close as possible to this end of the spectrum.

On the other end of the scale, though, you've got efficiency. For a few days, or was it weeks, following September 11, every single vehicle crossing the bridges into the city was searched. This was obviously dropped after a very short time, as it clogged up traffic and could not be sustained over a long period. The tighter security, the longer it takes to get people and goods from Point A to Point B, and the more spent, the less money is made. So there is a fine line.

Personally, I do not believe much can be done about airport security. If security checks are made much more strict, they'll simply take too long and inconvenience too many people. Putting armed servicemen aboard at least the bigger airliners sounds like a good idea, though, and to the best of my knowledge, this has been done.

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