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Old 07-09-2007, 09:42 PM   #1
True_Avery
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Americans are NOT stupid

YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e87uuThuh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA

Articles:
http://www.informatics-review.com/FAQ/reading.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...on-cover_N.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...perSurvey.html
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/4/82551/91265
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/sc...b6302b&ei=5070
https://webspace.utexas.edu/cokerwr/www/slide1.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4761294.stm
http://www.coreknowledge.org/CK/index.htm
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=18421

America, the greatest country in the history of the universe and planet earth. The only country in the western world without free health care. The only country with true freedom. The only country that has God looking down at us. A country on the only planet that has the sun orbiting it. The country that is number 31 in health care. The country with the worst first world education system. The richest country on the planet. The country with the highest debt on the planet. The country that spends $600,000 a day on every soldier in Iraq. A country that teaches its people to fear its government. One of the few first world countries that makes people pay for college. One of the few countries that screams for lower taxes while it falls apart due to lack of tax dollars.

All for one, none for all!

In summary:
America is NOT stupid.
God Bless Us.

I am offically making plans to move out of this hole in the ground. There is absolutely nothing about this country that makes it better than any other first world country. News Flash: AMERICA IS NOT THE LAND OF THE FREE. Europe has freedom. Canada has freedom. Many places in the world have freedom. In fact, many other countries look out for their people instead of this ravaged capitalistic society we have that loves the rich of one and cares little for the poverty of many. The poverty rate in America is disgusting and far too high, while 1 white man can have billions upon billions of dollars to spend on his custom 10 cars and 3 mansions.

Please, give me a reason to stay here. I was born in this country, raised in this country, educated in this country. I have a lot of hopes and dreams for this chunk of land, yet I see absolutely no reason to stay here because when I crunch the numbers... living in Canada or Europe would benifit me so much more. Please... I need a reason to have faith in this place and the final straws were the statistics on the stupidity of Americans and watching Sicko yesterday with my mother. Free health care, less debt, and (in some places) a free college education is really tempting.

P.S. I am not going to have a lot of computer access for awhile, so I will not be around the forums much.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:38 PM   #2
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Just so you know, America is actually not capitalist, which is a very common misconception. If it were capitalist it would be way better. As of now we have a corporatist government (which is where government and business work together to oppress the people, read: fascist, corrupt, cronyism) that tries to pretend that it is for the free market and personal liberty, but that's just propaganda. In reality, the American government is a huge mafia that is out to plunder the people's wealth for their own purposes.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:49 PM   #3
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HEY! becarefull when you say Americans***** we latin's are american too we live in america!!.... We are not stupid.

And damn viewing the videos no wander they call the american stupids



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Old 07-09-2007, 10:52 PM   #4
SilentScope001
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America is neither Corparsitist or Capitalist.

It's a Mixed Market Economy, with capitalism and socialism rolled into one. Hong Kong may be an example of a purely capitalist society according to my economic textbook though.

And, while Americans may NOT be stupid, that does not mean you should flee it. You pay lower taxes (for a country you got no control over, you might not get anything better in other nations, and if you believe that you have to rely soley on yourself, lower taxes are always a plus), you get the nominal title of being part of a superpower, you can speak whatever you want (in some Euorpean nations, actually, in a lot of European nations, you have limits on speaking about Nazis, otherwise you get thrown in prison), and you could always attempt to gain some sort of political power if you try to stay within America.

And you always have the right to criticize America if you live in America. If you don't, then people will scream, "Ah, but she's not living in America, so she has no right to laugh at us!" Might be valid.

I do dispute your assertion of what places do have freedom. Canada and Europe do not have freedom at all. They do have economic limitations all around, which is good for liberals (high economic control, low social controls), but bad for conservatives who want the free market to make desicions. You WILL pay higher taxes over there. Like the services, then that's great. But America will alway have a different style of freedom than the rest of the world...the country is terrible, true, but you have control over the money you have, meaning you have control over how you live or die, not the government.

It's the eternal liberal vs. conservative delimma here. America is conservative, Europe and Canada are liberal. Nothing I can really do to dissude you from leaving USA, but I do believe that if you stick in America, you could surivie any sort of war that might happen in Europe, because the fear of World War III is always just around the corner, between China/Russia and the USA. The first battles (or nukes) may happen right in Europe.

But WHY Canada and Europe? Why not China or India? Why not join up with the potential superpowers of the future, see it in action, and engage in their prosperity, rather than just go to those nations for some measure of "freedom", especially when you go there, and might criticize those nations for giving you poor services and forcing you to pay for it? Might as well join those who are winning rather than nations who may very well lose. (And India is a liberal democracy, so you might prefer that to China, who is Authoritian)


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-09-2007, 11:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
It's a Mixed Market Economy, with capitalism and socialism rolled into one.
That's kinda what corporatism is... it may start off mixed, but gets corrupted as cronyism and authoritarianism take root.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
but you have control over the money you have, meaning you have control over how you live or die, not the government.
Actually you don't have control over your money or how you live or die. If I want to go buy some weed, or sell some, I could get arrested, fined, and imprisoned.

And if I get in a bad car accident, for example, and don't have health insurance or I don't have enough coverage, then I am going to be financially raped by the hospital.

I would agree that liberal countries like Canada and Britain have too much government controls, but it's hard to argue with the statistics that citizens of those kinds of countries have a higher standard of living than the U.S. Plus, the war in Iraq just sucks, even if you don't have any friends or family in the war. The fact that we're pissing away so much money on a lost cause when we could spend it on education, or health care, or eliminating poverty, etc. is just asinine.

Not to mention that our government is packed with criminals from the top down.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:41 AM   #6
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As I've said before, America is no longer the free-est place in the world, nor is it the fairest. However, we CAN look back to a time when we were the free-est(or most of us were, anyway), but no nation is truly perfect, especially in this day and time. It is being ruined by a combination of fundementalism, a false political dichotomy, and deeply ingrained uncapitalistic relationships between large corporations and the government. The Federal Government is a corrupt, bloated mockery of the relatively efficient limited system it once was.

But there are still people, such as myself, who think that Americans CAN reclaim some of the freedoms we once had and make the country a better place to live for all of us, rich and poor. Because there remains the possibility, however fleeting, that America could indeed be the 'Land of Opportunity' again.

Europe has no such legacy of freedom to reclaim, and no apparent intention to create one, although areas of Southeast Asia or maybe even Australia might be headed in the right direction.

edit: It is not the government's job to provide money or services to those who "need" them. I suppose the retirement system will have to be bankrupted by the glut of retiring boomers to show some Americans that "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" just doesn't work. In my estimation government's sole purpose for existing is to protect its citizens from force, and Uncle Sam is quite good at keeping us (mostly) safe from foreign invasion.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse

Last edited by John Galt; 07-10-2007 at 01:05 AM. Reason: to add another point and avoid a double post.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
In my estimation government's sole purpose for existing is to protect its citizens from force, and Uncle Sam is quite good at keeping us (mostly) safe from foreign invasion.
Humor mode on:
I'll remember that as thugs rule the streets raping and pillaging, houses burn down all around us, and the sewage and garbage piles up creating a massive public health disaster since we've gotten rid of the police, fire and sanitation departments.

But damn, we'll be good at defending our country.



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Old 07-10-2007, 02:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I'll remember that as thugs rule the streets raping and pillaging [...]
That wouldn't happen, because with limited government, people would have the right to defend themselves and not be prosecuted for it. For example, as of now, if you are attacked on the street, and you take out a gun and kill the person meaning you harm, you may be charged with murder. Next, people would have the ability to hire private police to patrol their streets, kind of like how malls and theme parks hire their own security.

Although the post John Galt made didn't imply eliminating the police department, since the police protect people from force too, not just the military. (I agree with John's post 100%, BTW.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
[...] houses burn down all around us [...]
Private fire department!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
[...] and the sewage and garbage piles up creating a massive public health disaster [...]
Private trash collection (we have that where I live and it works pretty well)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
[...] since we've gotten rid of the police, fire and sanitation departments. [...]
Private companies could probably do better jobs at this than government bureaucracies.
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Old 07-10-2007, 08:05 AM   #9
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:16 AM   #10
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Now you'd probably guess that I'd have something to say about this thread. I am proud of America warts and all, it is not only a world leader it is in many ways the greatest country in the world. Those who dislike it as much as they do are not being forced to live in America, in fact I can highly recommend a move north of the boarder. But before you run out and start burning the flag you should check to see where your clothes, car and tv are made. Where is your food from? Your house or parts of your house? If it's American you better burn those as well.
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Private fire department!
Private trash collection (we have that where I live and it works pretty well)!
Private companies could probably do better jobs at this than government bureaucracies.
Who's going to pay for all that? How are you going to administer it and make sure these private companies are meeting certain minimum acceptable standards and not dumping sewage into the drinking water instead of processing it in their drive to make a profit?

If everyone is armed, then the strongest/best armed person still 'wins', and if that happens to be the thugs, then good people still suffer.


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Old 07-10-2007, 01:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
you should check to see where your clothes, car and tv are made.
China, Japan, and Korea?



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Old 07-10-2007, 01:28 PM   #13
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You forgot Taiwan.




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Old 07-10-2007, 01:33 PM   #14
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I think she meant where the cars and televisions were invented. And who owns the factories that create the clothes, the cars, and the televisions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Private fire department!
We can put that fire out for $199.99. Call Fires R Us anytime day or night.
Sorry closed all state and national holidays

I just wonder what would happen if there was a slow fire season, would these private companies resort to arson to drum up business.

Privatization of the police force would not work either because then only the wealthy could afford justice. Oh, wait that is already the case.
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Old 07-10-2007, 02:52 PM   #16
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There are a lot of things wrong and a lot of things right in the US. There are ups and downs. Everybody has them. There are things I'm not happy about and they tend to differ from everybody else. I don't approve of the govt and its actions now because I thing the domestic situation should take precedence. The health care problem should be left to the individual states. That is part of the police powers granted to the state as stated in the Constitution. The local police again is state powers. The federal, that's the govt territory dealing with commerce, etc. Education is a sketchy thing being as it is not uniform but I rather spit on the policy of No Child Left Behind and a lot of the crapola dealing with social promotion and the like.

Not all Americans are stupid but some things that have been done are stupid. We're human. We are not infallible. Getting up and moving elsewhere won't fix the problem because everybody has problems no matter where in the world. If you truly want no problems, go live with the hunter-gatherers located in some of the most unsuitable areas for agriculture. Go raise a herd of llamas in the Andes or live with the Jivaro or Kapayo.

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Old 07-10-2007, 02:54 PM   #17
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Why not have countries go in the Free Market?

Say, you got America and Canada competing for citizens. In order to join up with the Citizenship club, you pay a small monthly (or annually) fee to America or Canada to use their services (Defense, Police, Fire, etc). We could call that a "tax". If you decide that you dislike paying that "tax", or dislike the really stupid regulations or "laws" they place on your membership within said nation, and see that another country, say, Canada, would offer better services, admittingly, at a higher cost, then you'll just move over there and renounce your membership.

Oh, and add in the fact that as a member, you can vote to see who lead that nation, maybe as a Director, or President of said Country. Countries that do well in the free market has higher citizenship and higher reveunes overall, which will have them produce better services. Countries that do not do well in the free market will just declare bankrupcy and maybe merge with a country that does do well in the Free Market.

Free market works wonders, doesn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-10-2007, 04:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
If everyone is armed, then the strongest/best armed person still 'wins', and if that happens to be the thugs, then good people still suffer.
Yeah, doesn’t that already happen in places like Afghanistan, the northern provinces of Pakistan, the southern states of Mexico, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, and Somalia? Hmmm... I think I’ll stick to a country with a centralised government, pay my taxes, and count my blessings.

@True_Avery—Yes, the U.S. could do with a nationalised healthcare system, but that has its problems, too. (Point in case, I heard a story from someone today about how she’ll still have to wait between 12 weeks and 6 months to see a surgeon for a health problem her G.P. diagnosed two months ago. ) I’ve lived in a lot of different states in the U.S., and lived in Germany, and have been living in the U.K. now since 2001 (mainly because my husband is British and that’s where he wants to live.) And, yes, there does seem to be more socialised advantages here, but then again, there are quite a lot of restrictions here as well. For instance, we have 17.5% VAT on our goods and services (more if you have to pay any import duty on the goods—no imports from the USA for me.) There are long waits for specialised healthcare treatment. (See above.) Fuel (petrol/diesel) is expensive: costs over £0.90/litre (so about $8 USD/gallon). Employers are responsible for paying maternity leave and yet even though they can claim back a statutory pay from the government, many women still get fired/laid off when it’s known they’re pregnant. (Sad, but very true.) You can’t build your own house or extend your current one or, in some cases, even put up a play house for your kids without extensive planning permission (which includes the permission of not only your local council but any and all neighbours who can see your house.) When applying for a job, you must use your current or last employer as a reference (so, better make sure you leave on good terms or it’ll be a while before you get another job. Or, you could always forge a reference like this guy did.)

Point is, it doesn’t really matter where you live—you do the best you can with what you got. People will always find problems with the current system and complain for a need for improvement. It’s the ‘grass is always greener over the fence’ syndrome. I’m happy where I am living now, but I don’t think I was any less happy living in Colorado a few years back.

@SilentScope--And we already have a 'free market' of sorts with countries. Hence the immigration to the western countries from those countries that have less economic prosperity.


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Old 07-10-2007, 05:02 PM   #19
SilentScope001
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Quote:
@SilentScope--And we already have a 'free market' of sorts with countries. Hence the immigration to the western countries from those countries that have less economic prosperity.
Exactly. Hence the smiley face.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:19 PM   #20
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I am going to come out and admit that: Yes, we do have a certain limited ability to function in the United States. If you think about the lives we lead, rich or poor, we really do very little with them. Most of the US citizens believe they have absolutely no power to change our country, thus we have dwindled our lives into a few flickering moments. Instead of making a stand against government officials who tarnish the consitution, we surpress our urges into watching television, playing games, and utilizing the internet. Over the past 300 years or so, the government has created laws against insurections and civil wars. Within the latest incarnation of the US government, the people have absolutely no power when it comes to money-policy-makers. Truthfully, the corporations have becomes so embeded into our government, and they have been selling our lives to the highest bidder. We use to have a government, which allowed the average joe to run for president. Now, you need millions of dollars to buy the votes you need to win. The nature of the United States has changed over the years, and the corporations have been able to regulate how we eat, breath, and speak. No one will make a stand. All we do is go online and spew garbage about how we feel, and we don't make a stand in our front lawns. Irony.



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Old 07-10-2007, 06:41 PM   #21
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Like I said, if you don't like America then no one's forcing you to stay. If you hate it that much then why do you live there?
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:23 PM   #22
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With all due respect, I have not seen anyone write they hate the United States of America in this tread. Being critical or criticizing your country does not mean you’re unpatriotic or treasonous. This country was founded on those very notions. There is a document located in The National Archives Building signed by 56 brave men. The document sets forth the rights of humans to declare their freedom from those that would seek to oppress them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Declaration of Independence
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
http://www.archives.gov/national-arc...ranscript.html

They did not leave it, they changed it for the better IMO.


Do not believe the propaganda it is all Americans duty to question the direction of their government. We’ve been lulled into the perception that we are here to serve the government, but in truth it is the government that is here to serve us. We’ve been taught that there are three branches of government; Legislative Branch, Executive Branch and the Judicial Branch. They check and balance each other preventing anyone from becoming too powerful, but there is another even more important and powerful check and it is the American citizen.

We exercise or duty of checks and balance by voting and by contacting our senators and congress person. If you look at the voter eligible population (excludes non-citizen and felons) 60.93% of all voting age eligible voted in the last Presidential election compared to 41.3% in the last off year election. I don’t understand why it is call an “off year election” when Legislative Branch is just as important to this country's function as the Executive Branch.

2004 Election
Bush 62,040,606
Kerry 59,028,109

That is a difference of 3,012,497 votes with only 60.93% of the eligible population voting. With the division in this country one person one vote was never more important. Personally I feel voting is my obligation to a debt I will never be able to repay. I vote for those the came before me and gave their life so that I may have that right. I’m not just speaking of the American Solider, but also those that fought for civil rights and equality for all American no matter their race, religion or gender (or any other excuse we use to separate ourselves).

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
Please, give me a reason to stay here.
It is your home. If you don’t like what is happening in this country work to correct the problem. Do not believe the propaganda you can make a difference. Look a Rosa Parks she helped change the course of American History all because her feet hurt. If you want National Health Care vote, contact your Senators and Congressman to make them aware of your desire. Then vote for those that support your cause and then contact them all over again (beware this may be what got me on the TSA watch list).

When those on the right tell you it will not work here point out that the U.S. Infant Mortality and Life Expectancy is lower than most Western European countries and Canada. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004393.html

Like JasraLantill wrote “you do the best you can with what you got.” You would not move out of your house if the carpet was dirty, you would clean the carpet. This is no different, if you are feed up with the state of this union work to change it.

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I heard a story from someone today about how she’ll still have to wait between 12 weeks and 6 months to see a surgeon for a health problem her G.P. diagnosed two months ago. )
I agree with 99% of what you wrote, but this happens in a 'free market' too. A coworker of mine is having to wait 3 months to get a skin cancer cut off her arm because that is the next open appointment the Dermatologists on her insurance plan has open.

P.S. Never mistaken my being critical as hatred of my country. I love my country and would not want to live anywhere else. I never feel more proud to be an American then when I see another citizen burn the flag. I want to tear that person arms off and beat the person to death with them, but I love that this country gives that person that freedom. If you love it work to change it for the better is what I would recommend over leaving.

Last edited by mimartin; 07-10-2007 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:43 PM   #23
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Who's going to pay for all that?
Who pays for it now? We do, through taxes. The difference is that it would be through bills instead.

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How are you going to administer it and make sure these private companies are meeting certain minimum acceptable standards and not dumping sewage into the drinking water instead of processing it in their drive to make a profit?
Because it would be a PR nightmare for them. If their customers paid attention, then they would take their business to a company that has standards. If that didn't happen, then environmental groups could perhaps sue them out of business and use the money to clean up. This is pretty much how it is as of now. Big companies dump their crap into the river, and then pay off the government so they don't get in trouble for it.

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If everyone is armed, then the strongest/best armed person still 'wins', and if that happens to be the thugs, then good people still suffer.
The strongest/best-armed people would probably be the security forces. As of right now, everyone suffers, because the only people armed at all are thugs and cops, who are basically just thugs too.
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Old 07-10-2007, 11:50 PM   #24
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I was saving this for another thread but given the implication police officers are thugs it's worth putting up. Senior Constable Jessica Evan is with the Victoria Police in Geelong, and is looking at joining either the Special Operations Group or Criminal Investigation Bureau. I asked for her comments.

In the police force we are trained to do everything possible to preserve life, including drawing your service revolver\automatic and aiming it at the threat in the hope of being able to intimitate them into a state of nonagression and compliance. However we cannot save people from doing stupid things no matter how much we would like to, we can only do our level best to convince them not to, and in a situation where we believe our lives or the lives of others are in imminent danger then the procedure is to aim at the largest portion of the upper body, the head, the chest, and keep firing until the target is no longer a threat. This is because the first bullet does not always finish the job. Now every time a police firearm is discharged there is an inquiry into the shooting to judge whether or not it was justified. Every shooting has to be shown that it was the correct course of action, that's common sense. But as much as we dread the thought of having to use our weapon on a living thing if you refuse to do so because you worry about being moral, or you stress over being moral when you need to draw your firearm, then you are no good to anyone.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:05 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by TK-8252
The strongest/best-armed people would probably be the security forces. As of right now, everyone suffers, because the only people armed at all are thugs and cops, who are basically just thugs too.
What will keep the strongest/best-armed people from being thugs? At least there is some control over police officers.

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Originally Posted by JasraLantill
Yeah, doesn’t that already happen in places like Afghanistan, the northern provinces of Pakistan, the southern states of Mexico, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, and Somalia?
Yes, and it happens here too. See Texas Concealed Handgun Law

http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba324/ba324.html

Even though I don’t like the law, I did take the class and have my license.

Very good point Nancy Allen, how many times do we not hear about a shooting and/or death because police officers are properly train to “preserve life”? I believe there would be a lot more deaths if the “strongest/best-armed” were protecting us.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:42 AM   #26
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First of all, there are certain functions of security that the government must carry out, because they would be impractical for private corporations to carry out. These include defending the nation from outside attack(on the national level), and protecting citizens from violence and natural disasters(including fires), in a more federalized manner at the national, state, and(mostly) local levels. Most other functions currently carried out by the government could be performed by private corporations or individual citizens.





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Old 07-11-2007, 01:02 AM   #27
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What will keep the strongest/best-armed people from being thugs? At least there is some control over police officers.
Well the strongest/best-armed people would be private security, and if they are thugs, then they get fired and probably would get sued, imprisoned, etc.

There is very little control over police officers - considering that it's the cop's word over the citizen's in most cases, unless there's video or lots of credible witnesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
I believe there would be a lot more deaths if the “strongest/best-armed” were protecting us.
As of now, no one is protecting us. If you think that police really can do anything to protect you, you've fallen victim of our government's propaganda. All they can do is show up after an incident and collect evidence. If they catch the criminal, the person may or may not be punished, and you, as a victim, will recieve nothing to compensate you for injuries or property losses. If your car is stolen for example, and the cops find it, they might keep it as evidence instead of giving it back to you.

Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:34 AM   #28
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mimartin: Uh, while I love to have many people serve in the great US (only 33% of people living in the USA actually voted, the 66% number are the ones that bothered to register, but some people don't even register to vote), let face the facts here.

100,000,000 people voted in the last Presidental election.

You vote.

You get to control 0.000000001% of the popular vote! Weeee! And you wonder why we think that people complain they have no say in the government? Democracy is a great idea, but when you realize that everyone else get to vote as well, you start to feel that you are useless, and the mob is the only thing that matter. (If it turns out your vote happens to be the deciding vote, then an automatic recount is in order, because it is quite obivous that there is a high chance of error...so even then, your vote does not count).

Truth is, voting is NOT how you change the government. Getting other people to vote the same way is how you do so. Trying to form PACs, buying out politicans, writing opinon pieces, creating TV ads, THAT'S how we gain influence and power. If you want to reform America to your idea of "perfectness", you cannot rely on democracy, because not only you can vote, but so can your enemies as well, and if your enemies outnumber you, you lose. Simple.

(Maybe the reason America does not see our grand ideas as perfect is...because...they may not actually believe in them. Hey, look at the title of the thread: Americans are NOT stupid.)

Have to serve my patoritic duty to criticize.

TK-8252: I do think the police officers are doing quite a fine job in defending the USA from criminals. I feel safe...at least. But cops can't stop everything, either in Free Market or outside of Free Market.

However, thanks to Private Military Contractors, the military is about to be controlled by the Free Market. The bad news is that senators may be less worried about cost-benieft anyalsis of the competiting corporations and more of kickbacks and bribes. Still, worth a shot. And if it does well here, it could be used in the cities as well.


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Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:56 AM   #29
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TK-8252: I do think the police officers are doing quite a fine job in defending the USA from criminals. I feel safe...at least. But cops can't stop everything, either in Free Market or outside of Free Market.
I'm glad you feel safe. A lot of people feel safe, that is, until they get robbed or raped. Then they demand justice, which they might not get.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:38 AM   #30
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I plan on staying put and being a pain in the choobies. I'm mad as hell and sick of my home being run by the religious nuts and corporate thieves. Why give the #$!@#$ the satisfaction of leaving?

The Constitution is a fine work of art. That is at least one reason to stay.


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Old 07-11-2007, 07:46 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TK-8252
Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.
Why do you think that is? So they can find out who supplied them the drugs, ****ing ****s that push the addiction onto eight year old children, make them take up a life of crime so they are able to feed that habit that destroys them. Not so harmless is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
I'm glad you feel safe. A lot of people feel safe, that is, until they get robbed or raped. Then they demand justice, which they might not get.
Don't blame the police, they cannot be everywhere to solve every crime. Blame the courts who are leniant on criminals. You might like to have a look at yourself as well. What part do you play in active crime prevention?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allronix
I plan on staying put and being a pain in the choobies. I'm mad as hell and sick of my home being run by the religious nuts and corporate thieves. Why give the #$!@#$ the satisfaction of leaving?
Maybe because you hate it with every fibre in your body? If you hate it so much why stay and force yourself to witness the things you hate about America?
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by mimartin
We can put that fire out for $199.99. Call Fires R Us anytime day or night.
Sorry closed all state and national holidays

I just wonder what would happen if there was a slow fire season, would these private companies resort to arson to drum up business.
Versus the fire department resorting to arson to ensure it's budget doesn't decrease?

OT, I think that JL's point about the grass being greener is spot on. This country may not be great (we're human too, afterall), but you need to figure out what you want vs what you can get no matter where you end up living. If you can't shake you're bad feelings about America, I'd say that perhaps Canada or Scandanavia may be in your future. Just one question: What will you do if wherever you go doesn't pan out? There are only something like 200 countries in the world, and most of them are much worse than here for a whole host of reasons (oppression/violence/bigotry/unsanitary/etc..).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman

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Old 07-11-2007, 11:59 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.
I'm glad the crime issues are boring by you, then. Around here, the cops are not looking for 'harmless drug users and prostitutes', though they will handle that because of the ties with organized crime. Here in my part of the world which is not too far from Chicago and Milwaukee, they deal primarily with very serious crimes--rape, severe child abuse (the life-threatening version--DCFS handles it otherwise), bank robberies, violent assaults, shootings, murders, organized crime rings, gang issues, and so forth. Milwaukee just had a serious incident where a guy got beaten severely by a gang for trying to defend a woman from getting attacked and likely raped, and they have multiple gang problems right now. In fact in some parts of the city right now, the gangs have more control than the police or citizens do, and they are destroying the ability of regular people to go to work, school, or other places with any kind of safety.

About 500 people get murdered in Chicago every year, and Milwaukee's murder rate is around 100 the last few years. I don't think the police around here are just sitting around eating donuts while waiting to bust the next hooker who walks by.


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Old 07-11-2007, 12:03 PM   #34
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I feel safer in the United States than anywhere else in the world. Even though we have our bad moments, we do have certain freedoms that other countries do not practice. Some countries kill you for drunk driving, or they chop off a hand for stealing. The United States is probally the best country to live in. Since we are fighting an unpopular war in Iraq, I think the world just looks at us awkwardly. There are countries out there that say, "Americans stay out of our way." Once an outsider country gets attacked, "Americans we need your help." If we act upon something that is humanly wrong, we are condemned by every other country in the world. If we take an inactive action towards another country, we are condemned for not doing enough. Yeah, we have our issues. Yeah, we have problems with our gorvernment. However, where on Earth are you going to find the most self-sacrificing bunch of as* ho*es to step in front of a bullet for a stranger? We do it for liberty, peace, freedom, and prosperity for all of mankind.

US, Canada, Russia, Europe, and some of Asia are sacrificing their people, so the common good will preveal.

Yeah, our government has issues, but our push for freedom for all is unmatched (next to Canada and Europe that is).



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Old 07-11-2007, 01:28 PM   #35
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I think she meant where the cars and televisions were invented. And who owns the factories that create the clothes, the cars, and the televisions.
Well, of these things I own are made by non-American companies. There are lots of clothing, car, and electronic manufacturers that are not US companies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Like I said, if you don't like America then no one's forcing you to stay. If you hate it that much then why do you live there?
I would say that for many people it is because they do not have the means to go anywhere else. They may be too poor to afford to emmigrate, or are not able to get the required visas and permits in order to take up residence in another country. Most countries have immigration policies that favor certain kinds of individuals (certain professions and the like). It usually isn't very easy to just live in another country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Most of the time, cops are out looking for harmless drug users and prostitutes and people like that. You know, people who are just trying to live their lives, but have to live in fear of the police as a result of insane laws made by stupid politicians.
So you are saying that such activites have no affect on others in society, and that law enforcement on such things should discontinued?

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Old 07-11-2007, 01:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
I would say that for many people it is because they do not have the means to go anywhere else. They may be too poor to afford to emmigrate, or are not able to get the required visas and permits in order to take up residence in another country. Most countries have immigration policies that favor certain kinds of individuals (certain professions and the like). It usually isn't very easy to just live in another country.
Not to mention that if you get a good job here, it is harder to relocate to another country and try to get a similar paying job.


Quote:
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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:26 PM   #37
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Why do you think that is? So they can find out who supplied them the drugs, ****ing ****s that push the addiction onto eight year old children, make them take up a life of crime so they are able to feed that habit that destroys them. Not so harmless is it?
Actually, no one ever really comes up to eight year olds and puts a crack pipe in their mouth and forces them to inhale. That's quite silly to suggest such a thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
Blame the courts who are leniant on criminals.
They are leniant on criminals because the jails and prisons are overcrowded with people with victimless crime convictions, like drug possession and such. Let these harmless people live their lives in a free society and the real criminals would be behind bars instead of on the streets.

@Jae: I'm glad that police where you live are making an effort towards keeping the streets safe. However, a lot of crime is created by the need for drug money. The reason why drugs are expensive is because they are illegal. If they were legal, they would be much more affordable, because there would be a greater supply available to satisfy the demand. So by the actions of police against drug dealers, they in turn create a legion of criminals.

Quote:
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So you are saying that such activites have no affect on others in society, and that law enforcement on such things should discontinued?
They do have an affect... but the reason why they do is because they are illegal. If they were legal, then there would be no affect. Drug dealers, prostitutes, and other people involved in "vice" are providing a service that is wanted by people. People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!
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Old 07-11-2007, 05:08 PM   #38
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People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!
Wow. A world where 12-year olds who don't know any better can sell themselves and then have the cash to buy some of the cheap, affordable drugs that mommy and daddy snort so much of. Then they can get STDs, pregnant, screwed for life and then pass that behavior down to the kids they'll have next year, go free market!!!

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Like I said, if you don't like America then no one's forcing you to stay. If you hate it that much then why do you live there?
If it weren't for the language barrier, financial difficulties and fact I wouldn't know anyone there I'd love to move to Norway.


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Old 07-11-2007, 05:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Actually, no one ever really comes up to eight year olds and puts a crack pipe in their mouth and forces them to inhale. That's quite silly to suggest such a thing.
My sister-in-law does foster care and has abused kids come through her home, and I see kids in my office who are foster kids because we take Medicaid. Some parents, who should never have had kid because they themselves are addicted to drugs and alcohol, have actually given their very young children hits off their joints to mellow the kids out, and given them alcohol to make them sleep. It happens far more often than anyone of us want to see. If someone told me that a 'parent' had put a crack pipe in the mouth of an 8 year old and forced them to inhale, I would not be surprised in the least after what I've seen and what I've heard from my sister-in-law.

A thief in my town had been hitting a gas station every night and the cops finally found out from an informant what gas station he would hit that night, so they set up a sting and caught him. In the back seat of his car was his 9 month old daughter, asleep because he'd put alcohol in her bottle to make sure she slept. She had to be taken to the hospital for observation because her blood alcohol level was that high.

It is terrible that this happens, but it's _happening_, and I'm honestly sorry that I'm the one who has to introduce you to just how horrible people can be to their own children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
They do have an affect... but the reason why they do is because they are illegal. If they were legal, then there would be no affect. Drug dealers, prostitutes, and other people involved in "vice" are providing a service that is wanted by people. People want hookers. People want drugs. Let the free market do its business!
Let's use alcohol as an example, then, since it's a legal 'drug'. Crime will not go away because you legalize prostitution or drug use.

In the case of alcohol use and abuse, you have vehicular homicide and assault from drunk driving. When I worked at Children's hospital I saw the results first hand in the ICU--2 Amish girls had survived a car-vs.-buggy accident. The guy was drunk and was driving 65 in a 35 zone that was in a well-known Amish community. The girls' 2 other siblings, father, and 5-month-pregnant mother died at the scene from the impact. Both girls had massive injuries, one we thought would make it, and the other we weren't sure, but if she did she had such massive head trauma she was never going to be 'normal' again. Since alcohol is legal, is this what you mean by 'it's legal so there's no effect'? I beg to differ. One man drinking and driving completely destroyed a family. Drug abusers, legal or not, won't quit driving, and we will see higher amounts of vehicular assault and homicide due to drug abuse if it's legalized.

There are alcohol-related rapes, domestic abuse, and child abuse. When people are under the influence, they don't act rationally or do rational things. It's even worse with certain drugs--someone on ice or PCP can become extremely violent, and because they don't feel pain normally, they are extremely difficult to bring under control. They'll break bones while fighting and will continue fighting because they don't feel the fractures.

There are people committing theft to buy alcohol because they've lost their jobs due to their alcoholism and now can't afford it. People with end-stage liver disease from alcohol abuse are on disability and need extremely expensive medical care on top of it, which is a big drain on gov't resources. Those who abuse drugs don't have the mental capacity when they're stoned to take care of themselves or avoid risky behaviors, so we'll see more drug addicts in bad health, which will put further strain on gov't resources. In Holland (or Denmark--can't remember which), they've had to create 'nursing homes for drug addicts' because these people can't take care of themselves anymore due to the brain damage from drug abuse, which is legal over there. Not only are these people not contributing positively to society, they're now a drain, and they're fairly young and are going to live a long time on that country's social system. There's no positive to legalizing drugs, and plenty of negatives.

One reason prostitution is illegal (aside from the ethical issues of treatment of women and some men) is because prostitutes are great disease vectors, especially STDs. Since most don't use condoms (because their clients don't like the feel ), that's still the case even in our 'modern age'. Many prostitutes are doing that job because they are addicted to drugs and it's the only 'job' they can hold down due to their addiction. Since they're drug abusers, they do not take care of themselves, and many are HIV+ and carry other STDs. People are contagious before they ever have disease symptoms, be that syphilis, chlamydia, herpes, HIV, or others. One prostitute can infect a number of people a night depending on client numbers/activities, and those people go on to infect others, and before you know it you have an epidemic on your hands. If you legalize this, you're contributing to a public health problem, because there's no way to regulate the sex industry to prevent disease spread except for stopping it completely.


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Old 07-11-2007, 05:55 PM   #40
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I never thought I'd agree with Emperor Devon. Well, except for the Norway part. TK, what do you really want? A Free Market, or total anarchy? Because it sounds to me like you're more advocating the latter.
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