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Old 07-22-2007, 10:30 PM   #1
SilentScope001
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The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

http://www.vhemt.org/

This is an political organization dedicated in convincing the human race to stop reproduction (you can still make love, just do it with birth control), thereby ending the human race and saving the Earth from us. Doing so would be the ulitmate showcasing of our superiority, by showing that we are willing to die in order to save something much more important than us. It seems like an interesting movement, but one doomed to utter failure. /shrugs.

The human race is growing far too much, and limiting the population may be futile. Evne if you do, they will still consume resources. If you invent technologies, that will consume resources, and you rely on plain luck, hoping that the new technologies will save the human race, when it is likely it won't. And moving to other planets after we trash Earth...well, we're going to likely destroy those other planets as well.

Doesn't seem like condoning eco-terrorism, altough I do fear comments by the founder of the movement which suggests he would desire a virus that would render infertile all humans so that they would be forced to choose extiniction. So much for voluntary. But for the most part, that seems an idle comment, and they are mostly going down the political route.

Okay, a quick challenge. Go to that site, read it, and then come up with an objection to it. The reason I ask? I read that site, I like it, and I want to find objections to that site so that I remain as netural as possible. I don't want to be biased towards VHEMT at all, so well, I hope we can get some good criticism that can knock this movement flat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-22-2007, 11:12 PM   #2
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While there is overpopulation in the world and this should probably be remedied, extinction is going a good deal of steps too far, and the whole site seems pretty poorly thought through.

Quote:
We're not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters.
Nope. They're one and the same thing. Human extinction is the outcome of human disasters, if said disasters are severe and numerous enough. They wouldn't be opposites if their metaphorical lives depended on it.

Quote:
Q: What is the official position of VHEMT?

Since the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement isn't alive with a brain or a mouth, it can't take positions or have opinions. It can't get into arguments, tell people what to do and think, nor get punched for doing so.
And yet this is what it is doing. Nice contradiction, saying that 'we have no official position, and that official position is that we think it'd be great if humans died out'.

Quote:
When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth's biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Nature's "experiments" have done throughout the eons.
If they're just 'experiments of Nature', why's it so bad that we're killing them? To first advocate human extinction to save these species, and for then to downplay their deaths this way, seems very contradictory.

Quote:
The Movement is life-affirming and will benefit all life. We are not advocating suicide, nor an increase in human deaths.
Another contradiction: Does not human life count here? Are we not part of 'all life'? What's in it for us?

No reason to worry, though. It's basically just an abstinence movement with a fancy and scary web site, and we all know how successful they tend to be. Heck, these people know themselves they won't succeed:
Quote:
It has been suggested that there are only two chances of everyone volunteering to stop breeding: slim and none.
A voluntary fight against windmills, as it were. I'm more worried by far about people who want to allow euthanasia and stop prevention of suicides.

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Old 07-22-2007, 11:52 PM   #3
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Lets start with their mission statement:
Quote:
Phasing out the human race by voluntarily ceasing to breed will allow Earth's biosphere to return to good health. Crowded conditions and resource shortages will improve as we become less dense.
Statistical truth, the fewer organisms using up resources, the better. However, this is equal reason to advocate the extinction of all non-human species on the planet. Since they wouldn't be using OUR recourses anymore, we'd naturally have more of them, right? but the argument that the earth will improve as there are fewer humans is impossible to prove because the number of humans is only increasing, and the earth's climate is not improving. So the opposite result is only a negative version of a mathematical function. Much like the concept of "white holes" are a direct positive balancing counterpart to black holes. But we haven't found any "white holes" yet, so the idea that less humans=better earth is only hypothetical. not to mention the concept in and of itself allows for the advocation of the destruction of all non-human life.

Quote:
VHEMT (pronounced vehement) is a movement not an organization. It's a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth. We're not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters.
Isn't there some argumentational fallacy of attacking the people with the opposite position? or, anyone who doesn't take your position? Obviously, people who only care for a particular kind of life on earth, EXACTLY the same as the people who would advocate an Abrahamic view(that the earth is here entirely for us to use and abuse) of human life and animal life.

And yes, they are correct that with fewer humans, when natural disasters strike, probability says that there is a smaller chance of something bad happening to them. but again, statistics are entirely what you want them to be.

Quote:
We don't carry on about how the human race has shown itself to be a greedy, amoral parasite on the once-healthy face of this planet. That type of negativity offers no solution to the inexorable horrors which human activity is causing.
but you just did.

Quote:
As VHEMT Volunteers know, the hopeful alternative to the extinction of millions of species of plants and animals is the voluntary extinction of one species: Homo sapiens... us.
why do they deserve to live and not us?

Quote:
Each time another one of us decides to not add another one of us to the burgeoning billions already squatting on this ravaged planet, another ray of hope shines through the gloom.
read: everyone who doesn't do it our way is a bad person!

Quote:
When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth's biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Nature's "experiments" have done throughout the eons.
but humans of course, do not fall under this category because we're bad critters.

Quote:
True, wildlife rapidly going extinct and 40,000 children dying each day are not laughing matters, but neither laughing nor bemoaning will change what's happening. We may as well have some fun as we work and play toward a better world.
again, numbers are exactly what you want them to be. Does not much of animal life not make it beyond the first few years? Or even the first few weeks? Many animals are known to smother the runts of the litter.

Quote:
Besides, returning Earth to its natural splendor and ending needless suffering of humanity are happy thoughts -- no sense moping around in gloom and doom.
We have little to no idea what earth was like before humans, assuming it was better than it is now, the idea is sound, but that's only an assumption, not fact.

Quote:
It has been suggested that there are only two chances of everyone volunteering to stop breeding: slim and none. The odds may be against preserving life on Earth, but the decision to stop reproducing is still the morally correct one. Indeed, the likelihood of our failure to avoid the massive die off which humanity is engineering is a very good reason to not sentence another of us to life. The future isn't what it used to be.
so much for not giving into the doom and gloom, read: life sucks, nobody wants to live in the horrible future, so lets all die now.

Quote:
Even if our chances of succeeding were only one in a hundred, we would have to try. Giving up and allowing humanity to take its course is unconscionable. There is far too much at stake.
Assuming humanity's course is a bad one, I suppose that's true. However, neither they, nor I can see the future, we can imply what the future may be like from studying the past, but thats not a guarantee that we'll be right. Of the myriad of possible futures, they see only the worst ones. And their reaction is, like Hillary's to video games, a knee-jerk reaction.

Quote:
After we've seen a few hundred TV dramas where the good guy kicks the bad guy's butt, it's tempting to look at the real world with this same knee jerk, zero-sum mentality. We might look for an enemy to attack when championing our righteous cause, but in reality our enemy doesn't have a butt to kick.
after you've already attacked those horrible doom and gloomers who are sentancing their children to a horrible fate of the future. Can I ride my white horse now? Or at least kick their soapbox out from under them?

Quote:
In the end, the real "enemies" are human greed, ignorance, and oppression. We can achieve more by promoting generosity, awareness, and freedom than we can by vainly kicking at a buttless foe.

Great progress will be made toward improving the quality of life on Earth by countering greed with responsibility, ignorance with education, and oppression with freedom.
so human extinction isn't necessary, just societal change. I'm down with that. both rank up there in the '"slim to none" in their chances.

that's about 1/5th to 1/4th of their "about", I think that's enough holes for this post.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:16 AM   #4
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See my posts about "The Planet Is Fine" by George Carlin in the thread about the global warming threat meter. This is pure BS.

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Old 07-23-2007, 01:08 AM   #5
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Thanks all for responding! Glad to always manitan an NPOV viewpoint!


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Glad to always manitan an NPOV viewpoint!

The extinction of the human species is not something a lot of humans will remain neutral about. Our entire existence since we set foot on this planet has been one of survival. Survival and procreation is the essences of whom and what we are. It actually seems to be two things that we are actually good at.


I’m all for protecting the environment, but for our future generation not because I want the cockroach to have a better way of way of life. I’m for voluntary population control, but not to the point of extinction.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
The extinction of the human species is not something a lot of humans will remain neutral about.
Well, true. I just desire to just hear both sides of an issue, rather than remain biased towards VHEMT or against it. I don't like taking sides for anything for that matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:01 PM   #8
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From a theistic point of view--we're all put here for a reason, so voluntary extinction is not an appropriate choice.

From an evolutionary point of view--we've evolved just like any other creature, and have just as much right to be here as any other creature. This is an extreme response to the problems that humanity creates. I'm sure there are other far better solutions than this. Besides, there may be things that the world needs from us as humans that no other creature or thing can provide. Assuming that we're bad for the world when we haven't even fully explored our risks and benefits to earth is rather presumptuous.


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Old 07-23-2007, 04:47 PM   #9
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You remember that kid on the playground that no-one, but no-one liked? The one that pretended to have major problems but didn't?

It seems they've formed a club.



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Old 07-23-2007, 06:02 PM   #10
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those guys are schmucks. If they want to remove THEMSELVES from the gene pool, more power to 'em. However, the moment they try to do the same to anyone else against their will, they need to be shut down. immediately.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
However, the moment they try to do the same to anyone else against their will, they need to be shut down. immediately.
Not to mention put in jail for murder/attempted murder.


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Old 07-23-2007, 10:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Not to mention put in jail for murder/attempted murder.
I was specifically referring to the "sterility virus" thing, but you do have a good point.

Besides, if they value nature so much, why can't they accept that (as per George Carlin) EVERYTHING people make is natural, because humanity is part of nature?





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:23 PM   #13
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I've been to that site before and in my mind, for them to want some type of virus that would effectively wipe out the human race, I'll put it this way: if they want to harmonise with nature they can go harmonise. Be dumped in the middle of nature with nothing at all and see how much they like it, how dangerous and indiscriminate nature is.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:12 AM   #14
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Well, I don't see anything voluntary about their ideas. At best, they should be considered bio-terrorists.

I mean, this is quite a bit different from the "get yourself neutered(by neutered I don't mean rip your balls off obviously, guys would reather die than be ballless) and you get a radio and 50 bucks" movement.

Granted, I dso think that the world is fare too over populated, and it would indeed be nice if people are to produce less spawnlings. If anything, there are more resources to go around for us to play with. Unfortunately it seems that only the more civilized parts of the world have caught on the the idea of breeding(for offsprings) less.
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
From a theistic point of view--we're all put here for a reason, so voluntary extinction is not an appropriate choice.
Excluding the end-of-the-world cults.

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Old 07-25-2007, 10:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious
You remember that kid on the playground that no-one, but no-one liked? The one that pretended to have major problems but didn't?

It seems they've formed a club.

Hey don't lump unpopular kids into this, seriously I wasn't exactly popular and I'm still not popular, but I think the idea of voluntary extinction to be stupid.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:12 PM   #17
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You're right SilentScope 001, I don't advocate a virus that renders all male Homo sapiens sterile. That wouldn't be voluntary. We're not in favor of increasing human deaths and diseases. We're saying that the intentional creation of one more of us by anyone anywhere can't be justified -- at least not at this time. We're not advocating restrictions on breeding. Everyone who doesn't want to breed should have the freedom to not do so.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:26 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesUKnight
You're right SilentScope 001, I don't advocate a virus that renders all male Homo sapiens sterile. That wouldn't be voluntary. We're not in favor of increasing human deaths and diseases. We're saying that the intentional creation of one more of us by anyone anywhere can't be justified -- at least not at this time. We're not advocating restrictions on breeding. Everyone who doesn't want to breed should have the freedom to not do so.
Last time I checked, we do have that freedom, at least in the US and presumably most (if not all) of the civilized world. The fact is that the desire to procreate is hard-wired into the human psyche, at least for most of us. If you don't want kids, that's fine, but attempting to take away others' freedom to procreate is, in my opinion, a despicable violation of individual rights.

Just my two cents.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesUKnight
You're right SilentScope 001, I don't advocate a virus that renders all male Homo sapiens sterile. That wouldn't be voluntary. We're not in favor of increasing human deaths and diseases. We're saying that the intentional creation of one more of us by anyone anywhere can't be justified -- at least not at this time. We're not advocating restrictions on breeding. Everyone who doesn't want to breed should have the freedom to not do so.
that's a short sighted policy. We can't justify reproducing now. But maybe later?

well, there won't be a later if there isn't a now. Not to mention, that all the people who would voluntarily participate, would be the people you WOULDNT want to not reproduce. Not to mention that the human body is only designed to be able to reproduce for a select number of years, so it's literally, do or die.

And: everyone who doesn't want to breed HAS the freedom, save freedom from natural urges, to not breed.


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Old 07-25-2007, 04:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
You're right SilentScope 001, I don't advocate a virus that renders all male Homo sapiens sterile. That wouldn't be voluntary. We're not in favor of increasing human deaths and diseases. We're saying that the intentional creation of one more of us by anyone anywhere can't be justified -- at least not at this time. We're not advocating restrictions on breeding. Everyone who doesn't want to breed should have the freedom to not do so.
Good to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:34 PM   #21
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I'm going to use as much of the planet's resources as I possibly can just to p--- these people off.

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Old 07-25-2007, 08:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
I'm going to use as much of the planet's resources as I possibly can just to p--- these people off.
I think I will too.

So, wanna clear-cut a forest so we can barbecue a herd of buffalo? j/k.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse

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Old 07-25-2007, 09:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
I think I will too.

So, wanna clear-cut a forest so we can barbecue a herd of buffalo? j/k.
can we butcher some baby seals first?


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

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Old 07-26-2007, 06:06 PM   #24
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Whaling trip, anyone?




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Old 07-26-2007, 06:54 PM   #25
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Yeah, after we kill off a bunch of endangered birds, frogs, and other species, re-release CFCs into the atmosphere, and burn every drop of oil possible in the next 2 years, I think it'll be time to get back on topic....


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Old 07-26-2007, 07:00 PM   #26
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To want the human race dead, to want some virus that would kill off the human race, it's evil. There's a million better ways to describe it but I think that's an accurate description of them, it's evil.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
To want the human race dead, to want some virus that would kill off the human race, it's evil. There's a million better ways to describe it but I think that's an accurate description of them, it's evil.
While I don't agree with their aims, I hardly think you can call them evil. I read nothing on that site that promoted active thinning of the population, rather a passive approach to slowly phase out a species that is quite unconcerned with the effects it has on anything else.

In fact, they quite explicitly state on their site that they don't want some virus to wipe out humanity. They just want people to stop having babies, because our rate of growth is quite clearly unsustainable.



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Old 07-26-2007, 09:11 PM   #28
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They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:54 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ET Warrior
I read nothing on that site that promoted active thinning of the population, rather a passive approach to slowly phase out a species that is quite unconcerned with the effects it has on anything else.
Quite the contrary, we're essentially the species that is the most concerned with the effects we have on everything. This is simply because we are the smartest species. I doubt that a bird flies overhead, and thinks to itself "better not crap in that pool, because that'd p--- off that house owner."

In response to this website, I think that this is a stupid idea, simply because it will never work. Millions of people don't believe in birth control, and you'd have a really hard time getting them to change.

Do I think that the human race is overpopulated? No. More brains means more thinking. Thinking is always a good thing. Will we consume more resources? Yes, that's a given. But, you have to think that because we consume these resources, there's a better cause than to just stay alive. I'd like to believe that if the savior of the Earth (assuming one is needed) will consume all the resources they need.


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Old 07-26-2007, 11:14 PM   #30
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Full disclosure: I was on their mailing list a LONG time ago (as in, before I had my depression treated), because I really wanted to speak to people who had chosen NOT to have kids and better explain to my family why. The options for "childless by choice" (especially for unmarried women) were pretty sparse.

Frankly, I'm all for volunteering to have fewer kids. I'm definitely not for extinction, but I am for "zero is fine, one is enough, two is plenty." Again, it's part of believing the Earth's here for everyone to share, not just for human benefit. Frankly, Mother Nature DOES have a mean streak, and the more of the Earth we abuse, the nastier the fallout will be. I'd almost say it's in our own best interest to scale back our numbers and put more thought into why we want kids. It's become better in recent years, but there's still stigma attached to those who forgo children, and people who put a lot of effort into having kids and little thought as to why.


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Old 07-27-2007, 12:56 AM   #31
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I personally don't want children because I find them annoying. However, I'm all for letting other people procreate, hopefully within the confines of reason (never understood why anyone would want 23 kids-yes, I know some one from a family of 25).





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Old 07-27-2007, 01:26 AM   #32
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I'm not wholly against children, but I'm certinaly no fan. I've seen the effects of having two sibling pets, and I assume the same principle works for children, so ideally, if I ever had a wife and had kids, I'd go for two. Which is zero population growth. However, I'm an only children, so I'm cool with one, but being an only child has it's downsides that I'm all too familiar with.

In any case, I think one of the best solutions to population growth is waiting longer to have children. Currently, many people are having kids every 20 years(not counting excessively large families), But it's: parent, turns 20ish, child, child turns 20ish, kids, kids turn 20ish, more kids, ect..., if everyone waited till 35, population growth would slow dramaticly simply because the ratio of death to birth would get closer. what is it, like, ever 50 seconds somebody dies, while ever 15 somebody is born?


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Old 07-27-2007, 01:59 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Allen``
They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.
Quote:
Q: Will new viruses, wars, famine, and toxic waste help the cause of human extinction?

No. Epidemics actually strengthen a species if enough of them are living to have an adequate survival rate. With over six billion of us, there is no virus that could get us all. A 99.99% die off would still leave 650,000 naturally-immune survivors to replicate, and in less than 50,000 years we could be right back where we are now. For any disease to simply hold the human population where it is, more than 200,000 of us would have to succumb to it each day. Suffering and death cannot help but hurt.
Seems to me that they obviously don't want a virus to wipe out humans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight_707
Quite the contrary, we're essentially the species that is the most concerned with the effects we have on everything. This is simply because we are the smartest species. I doubt that a bird flies overhead, and thinks to itself "better not crap in that pool, because that'd p--- off that house owner."
And I also doubt that you will ever find a flock of birds strip mining a mountainside for ores to process into alloys, pumping copious amounts of toxic fumes into the air. While we are certainly natural creatures there is absolutely no denying that we have used our intelligence to separate ourselves from nature. While there are some who are genuinely concerned with our effects on nature, as a species we have shown very little regard for it.




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Old 07-27-2007, 02:15 AM   #34
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They want a virus that would wipe out the human race. I'd say that qualifies as monsterous.
As that founder of the movement posted, it was indeed nothing more than an idle comment (calling for a virus that would render the human race infertile, NOT causing massive Black-Plague painful deaths), really meaning nothing.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-27-2007, 02:30 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ET Warrior
And I also doubt that you will ever find a flock of birds strip mining a mountainside for ores to process into alloys, pumping copious amounts of toxic fumes into the air. While we are certainly natural creatures there is absolutely no denying that we have used our intelligence to separate ourselves from nature. While there are some who are genuinely concerned with our effects on nature, as a species we have shown very little regard for it.
This taking, for the most part, was unintentional. I don't think that inventors in the Industrial Revolution wanted to harm our Earth. Yes, we have seperated ourselves from nature, for better or for worse. And that's the key. Is our serperation a good or a bad thing? Is taking something from Earth detrimental or is it good?

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Old 07-27-2007, 10:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
As that founder of the movement posted, it was indeed nothing more than an idle comment (calling for a virus that would render the human race infertile, NOT causing massive Black-Plague painful deaths), really meaning nothing.
When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.


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Old 07-27-2007, 11:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET Warrior
Seems to me that they obviously don't want a virus to wipe out humans.
I believe we are taking semantics here. They wouldn’t mind a virus that would render the population sterile, a virus that would slowly wipe out the human species. The end of humanity would be the same if it happened in three days or over one life time. So I really don’t see the difference. My question is couldn’t the same virus effect other mammals?

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement obviously is not going to work. It goes against our very nature. So once these “volunteers” realize this, will they resort to other measures? Will they actively seek out way to create a virus to meet their goals? After all they are already thinking about a virus even if it is just idle thoughts.

If vhemt is now and will remain strictly voluntary, then I do whole heartedly support them in their endeavor. The end of their family line will mean more resources and more room as my family line continues.

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Old 07-27-2007, 11:43 AM   #38
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When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.
These people do have a sense of humor though. Maybe it's not funny to those who don't exactly like the movement, but it's still there. Mostly preaching to the choir humor though.

mimartin: The reason they want the human race to be voluntarly extinct is that so it would be the ultimate showcasing of our intelligence of us as a species, especially in knowing our limits, our problems, and how we are willing to give up living in order to save something far greater. Sounds a bit romantic sentiment, and I do believe they want to keep it that way. I don't think they will want to engage in causing an involuntary exinction.

I'm also sure the volunteers realize the cause is a bit, well, hard, but prehaps they are aiming high to accomplish a more realistic goal. By drawing attention to extiniction, they also draw attention to population control and stopping reproduction. If they can accomplish that, by lowering the population down to the carrying capacity of the Earth, then I suppose that VHMENT would be happy as well. That goal however seems hard as well, because even in developed countries, one human does consume lots of resources, more resources than an equilvinat human in the third-world country...and in the end, the human race is the natural predetors of society. Unless a new predator comes in wanting to eat us, then it seems as though it will be impossible to truly curtail our growth as we'll keep growing and growing until, well, there may be no more plants or animals for us to eat...or resources to use. Of course, by then, we would be able to fly off...and repeat the same process?

The main question however remains: Is our growth a good thing or a bad thing? That can only be answered by personal opinon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
showcasing of our intelligence of us as a species
Then that is the first flaw in their argument, depending on the human species to be intelligent means their cause is surely loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
The main question however remains: Is our growth a good thing or a bad thing?
As I wrote earlier, I feel that overpopulation is indeed a bad thing. I’m all for voluntary population control just not to the point VHMENT is advocating. I’m all for protecting the environment and other species, but I believe this should be done for the future of the human race. I actually agree with these people that perhaps the human race is blight on this planet, but like “If a tree falls down in the woods does it make a noise?” Who cares if there is no one there to hear it, same goes if the planet is better off without us, if their no one there to appreciate it who cares?
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Old 07-27-2007, 12:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
When you found a movement that advocates the extinction of the human race, no comment you say 'really means nothing' or is just 'idle'.
Same as when you are part of a group that believes everyone not in your group will burn in hellfire for eternity?

Kidding aside, why can't they have idle comments? Their life philosophy is such that everything they say must be taken completely serious?

Honestly, the word 'VOLUNTARY' is in the name of the movement. If we have to be so concerned with what they might eventually do about it then we should also start being genuinely concerned about those Christians wishing for the rapture.



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