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Old 08-07-2007, 02:16 PM   #1
Irian
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Wisdom vs. max Dex. Bonus

Hi,

I just noticed something strange and wanted to ask if anyone can confirm that - surely if it's true, it was discussed here already (I just didn't find it)...

Ok, so I got Battle Precognition, which adds my Wisdom Bonus to Defense - but somehow it seems to me, that this is also capped by the max. Dexterity Bonus of the Armor (or to be more specific, the armored Jal Shey Robe). I got...

+7 Wisdom
+3 Dexterity

With my Jal Shey (+4 Defense, +4 max. Dex) I get something around 28 Defense. But when I use a Jedi Knight Robe (+2 Defense), I get 32. Mathematically, it seems, that the +4 max. Dex also applies to Wisdom, so it's actually a +4 max. (Wisdom + Dex) Bonus.

If this is true, the Jal Shey Robe gibts me +4 (Dex + Wisdom) and +4 Defense (Armor). But the Jedi Knight Robe gives me +10 (Dex + Wisdom) and +2 Defense (Armor)...

Did I get something wrong here? Is there perhaps a good page out there that explains the formulas behind Kotor (preferably the real ones, as they were implemented, not the ones that SHOULD be, according to D20 :-).

Flo
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Old 08-07-2007, 03:07 PM   #2
PoiuyWired
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If I remember right Jedi Wis bonus to AC(Defence) works like D20 Monks. So basically the bonus is added "as extra Dex bonus" AND such bonus is not applicatable to any type of "Armor". jedi ropes are not armor though. Shield may or maynot be armor depending on version, we know old NWN1 series allows such bonus creating the weird shield monks...
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:48 PM   #3
Jae Onasi
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The 'max Dex' refers to how much the armor limits the Dex bonus (which, IIRC, also limits your reflex saves, too--D20 guru RedHawke can correct me on all this). Your defense is determined by your armor bonus and your dex bonus.

So, if your Dex bonus is +6, and the max Dex allowed by your armor is only +4, then only +4 of your Dex bonus will be applied to your defense.

When you're adding your Wis bonus to your defense, it's treated as a Dex bonus for purposes of defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irian
If this is true, the Jal Shey Robe gibts me +4 (Dex + Wisdom) and +4 Defense (Armor). But the Jedi Knight Robe gives me +10 (Dex + Wisdom) and +2 Defense (Armor)...
Exactly.

The formula is Defense=Base defense + armor bonus + Dex bonus (capped at the Max Dex number)
Let's say your base defense with no armor and no dex bonus is 20.
Now, let's assume you have a +3 Dex bonus. Your defense becomes 23.
If you add the Jal Shey armor, you get the +4 to defense, which would make it 27 (your base defense + Dex bonus + armor bonus).

Now, you've added your Wis bonus to your Dex for Defense. Your new 'Dex bonus' for purposes of Defense is now +10.
So with the Jal Shey armor your new Defense is 20+4 (for the armor bonus) + 4 ("Dex" bonus) for a total of 28. You can't apply the full +10 Dex+Wis bonus because the Max Dex allowed is only +4. So, you're losing +6 of your possible Dex/Wis bonus.

With the Jedi robes, there is no Max Dex penalty.
So your Defense is the base (20 for this example) + 2 (armor bonus) + 10 (for Dex/Wis--you can apply the full amount since there's no Max Dex penalty), so in this case your Defense total is 32.

So in this case with the Jedi robe, you lose 2 to your armor bonus, but you gain 6 for the Dex/Wis bonus, so you come out ahead.


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Old 08-09-2007, 07:42 AM   #4
RedHawke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
The 'max Dex' refers to how much the armor limits the Dex bonus
Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
(which, IIRC, also limits your reflex saves, too--D20 guru RedHawke can correct me on all this).
No your reflex saves are not affected by your armors max dex bonus...

Note: I am not a D20 guru, I hate the game system vehemonently... but have played it enough to know a little bit about what goes where and why.

AD&D 2e Forever!

It is a tribute to Bioware that they took a system I despise and made a damn nice game out of it. The same can be said of Turbine and the DDO game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Your defense is determined by your armor bonus and your dex bonus.
Basically yes.

There are also other types of possible bonuses, Deflection, Shield, Natural, Dodge, Inspiriational, Enhancement, Morale, Feat, etc.


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Old 08-10-2007, 07:26 AM   #5
Jae Onasi
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Heh, I miss playing AD&D with my college friends. I think I still have some books in a box in the basement. Still, you probably know more about it than the vast majority of us. 3.5's working for us now, and we house-rule in/out any rules that we prefer/don't like. Obviously a lot of people did the same, or they wouldn't have come out with the 3.5 modifications. We had some house rules in AD&D too, so altering the game a little to suit us is no big deal.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:36 AM   #6
RedHawke
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Well, I hate D20 for far more than what they did to D&D... D6 Star Wars was also a casualty of the D20 nightmare. That's the clincher for me.

For me all good RPG's need some 'house rules'... then there is Bar Wars... but that is a different topic.

In DDO I can get my Pally up to a 42 ac while dual-wielding Khopeshes... 48 with a heavy shield.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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