lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Why is Bush a bad president?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 08-15-2007, 02:38 PM   #41
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Quote:
No doubt, but that is not the same thing as seeing it broadcast on tv.

Very true. I'm sure that they was other means of seeing the first plane; people were there, and someone had to have something on them to record them, at least one would think...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tk102
We're talking about 2001 right? Camera phones weren't even introduced into North America commercially until 2002.
That's probably true. I'm just going by what my teacher told me around 4 years after the fact. I'm still sure a tourist or someone had a camera or video recorder on them when it happening. Or, I'd tend to think so because of how many I see when I go into the city.


Quote:
Prove it. I've been looking for 2007 polls and found none.
I haven't found a poll, but I'm going to say how I feel about the Patriot Act. Bottom line is I don't mind it. I doubt anyone of us here chatting on this forum has been touched by it. No, I can't prove it, but unless you're someone who has been in jail for terrorist related actions this thing isn't (shouldn't) be touching you. I find nothing wrong with wanting to check up on ex-criminals or convicted terrorist, but I really want to know that's who we're checking out. No doubt we are, but I just want to make sure, you know?


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 03:36 PM   #42
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,047
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
I doubt anyone of us here chatting on this forum has been touched by it.
I have, I am on the watch list when flying, because I have a common first name and sir name. They will not remove me from the list either since my name is the same as someone else that they say should be on the list. When we suspend due process and our fundamental beliefs in fairness we are all touched by it. I am not saying that safety should not out weight those rights, Iím saying fear should not be the driving force behind our laws.
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 04:11 PM   #43
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Doesn't matter if you've been affected personally or not. Injustice is injustice. I won't support an initiative that goes against my morals just because it doesn't harm me.

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 04:15 PM   #44
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
Yes and they did.
I was merely speaking to the contention that "the only way" was a poorly conceived and unreasonable statement, not questioning anyones grasp of how things actually happened.

I recall hearing that Ted Kennedy was also on that list (initially), so at least it's not just the "little guy". Kinda makes you wonder how exactly they draw up the list in the first place. There are a lot of people with common names in this country.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 04:57 PM   #45
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Doesn't matter if you've been affected personally or not. Injustice is injustice. I won't support an initiative that goes against my morals just because it doesn't harm me.

I'm not an immoral man (I'm not accusing you of saying I am either.) But I do feel that I'd rather have myself, yourself, and every American looked after. We can't pretend that there is no threat, and we have to stop denying that even the littlest threat can't hurt us; it can. I'd much rather be safe then sorry. I don't feel my rights are being hurt, and I don't feel it's immoral to stop people who want to kill me, you, and our families. I understand that it's the principal of it, but I don't think this is an act or principal thing. ( If that makes any sense.) I'd feel safer knowing I was being watched; I know I didn't do anything wrong, and now I know those guys will protect me.


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 06:18 PM   #46
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
Very true. I'm sure that they was other means of seeing the first plane; people were there, and someone had to have something on them to record them, at least one would think...
No one had any reason to be filming the first tower when the plane struck. Lots of cameras were on the towers after the first plane struck, therefore lots of cameras caught live footage of the second plane hitting the second tower.

The plane traveled at several hundred miles an hour and even though some people were likely to have camcorders running for various reasons, it would take them some time to determine were the sound was coming from, spot the plane, and then track it as it hit the building. The footage that we do have only exists because of sheer luck. If we had other footage, I'm sure that it would have been brought forward by now.

The point is that no one saw live footage of the first plane strike. I'm sure that once the Nauday brothers made their tape available, every station ran it. But that wasn't until September 12th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
I'm not an immoral man (I'm not accusing you of saying I am either.) But I do feel that I'd rather have myself, yourself, and every American looked after. We can't pretend that there is no threat, and we have to stop denying that even the littlest threat can't hurt us; it can. I'd much rather be safe then sorry. I don't feel my rights are being hurt, and I don't feel it's immoral to stop people who want to kill me, you, and our families. I understand that it's the principal of it, but I don't think this is an act or principal thing. ( If that makes any sense.) I'd feel safer knowing I was being watched; I know I didn't do anything wrong, and now I know those guys will protect me.
With much respect, I wonder if you would feel the same if you were one of the ones whose rights have been infringed, or if you understood how these rules affect you in ways that you might not consider now, or if you had knowledge of how similar tactics have been used in other places and times to achieve results that were not benevolent.

I think it's admirable that you want to be trusting of our goverment, but our founding fathers believed that those in power should never be completely trusted. Our rights were intended to be inalieable and the Patriot Act and its ilk fly directly in the face of this.

Last edited by Achilles; 08-15-2007 at 07:05 PM.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 07:00 PM   #47
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
No one had any reason to be filming the first tower when the plane struck. Lots of cameras were on the towers after the first plane struck, therefore lots of cameras caught live footage of the second plane hitting the second tower.

Well, I'll take your word for it because you have provided proof. I guess mu old teacher meant that her son and husband saw it happen, not her and the other teachers. But, that doesn't matter. It's done, over. What matters now is how the people who did it are dealt with from here on.


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 07:11 PM   #48
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
What matters now is how the people who did it are dealt with from here on.
I disagree on the basis of the point that I initially raised: Bush lied. I think that still needs to be addressed/acknowledged.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 07:26 PM   #49
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
To defend myself:

Quote:
The only problem with this statement is it's meaningless as you support the PATRIOT ACT.
Don't put words in my mouth. Please.

I hate lots of stuff that America is doing, including the Patroit Act, but it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what other people think, and so why should I go out and oppose those people?

Quote:
Prove it. I've been looking for 2007 polls and found none.
It is due to the fact of "security, security, security" chant I hear all the time that I make the conclusion that people want it. Not to mention the repeated polls that really matter, the Senate and House of Rep. polls. If the people hate it, they would vote for politicans, and the politicans would vote against it. The fact is, that doesn't happen.

Quote:
I don't believe any of those are violations of your rights. Except perhaps programs collecting private information when you use them. Cameras certainly are not a violation of any right, least of all the right of privacy, since they're... in public. Where people can see you. When a random passer-by looks at you, is that a violation of your right of privacy, too?
And that's the problem! People like you are going out, okay with some taking away of pirvacy. I could easily point to you as the reason we are heading towards a dystopia, but I won't, because you want limits. But pretty soon, we'll get used to the limits, and we'll see the PATROIT ACT as legit...and some brand new act as evil.

To explain. Our definitions of privacy has changed for a long time. Security cameras exist so that we feel a culture of fear. I shouldn't have to walk around and have this "viewscreen" indicating that at any given moment, in any public place, someone may be watching me...that's part of the 1984 criqitue, you know? The constant surviallance. Worse in Great Britian as well.

Quote:
Prove it. The burden is on you.
If people are able to be watched, the government can capture them. Hence, being done for our safety.

Quote:
And even if it was done for our safety, I'd still be against it, as [cue Abe quote]...
And Abe was willing to ban freedom of speech and Habeus Corpus to stop the Copperfielders. He may be the protecter of the Union, but certantilly not a protector of civil liberties.

Quote:
I'm deadly honest when I say you're scaring me big time.

...

Because a society conforming to the dystopian views of 1984 is not a society I want to live in.
*sigh*

I'm trying to save myself, first and foremost. For years, the ACLU is complaining we are going down the wrong path. I agree. The ACLU wants to resist. But, well, we can't exactly do anything to stop the trend, if people want it. So I don't want to go and fight and fight until 1984 does come and then disapper forever.

I want to live. I want to survive. I want a high quality of life. Is that something to blame me for, to blame me for being honest? Fact is, I'm not going to die just because an ideology that I do like gets wiped out on the national stage. I'm not going to risk everything just so that I can be 'free' in the depths of the graves. I have to stay alive, maybe to resist, maybe to help out those who still alive, or maybe because I have only one life, and I might as well live that life until it gets taken from me eventually. But I have to stay alive, and that why I need to know how to live in 1984.

Plus, I have to protect myself, as this is how evolution designed me to, in order to pervail under all cirmustances. If I go and just jump off a building when 1984 comes around, I am violating the Laws of Nature, going against who I am.

Quote:
And this matters why? I'm neither not a Democrat, not the slightest bit swayed by your statement that a second party supported the PATRIOT ACT. Violation of the Constitution and basic rights by popular demand is even worse than violations that are opposed heavily, as the former demonstrates a situation in which people have lost their will to 'breathe free'. Which is downright spooky.
The Democratic Party (~40%) and the Republican Party (~30%) compose about 70% of Americans' view, maybe more. Add in the Indepedents who are leaning towards Republican or Democrat, and you can see that the majority of Americans authorize this.

This is a democracy, this is not going to be a dictatorship where a small minority gets to impose what they feel about the world upon everyone else. If that happens, it could be even worse than the constant surviallnce.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
SilentScope001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 07:46 PM   #50
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I disagree on the basis of the point that I initially raised: Bush lied. I think that still needs to be addressed/acknowledged.
Yes, it should. But I don't think it will be, and if it is, I don't think it will change much at this point in time. Sadly, people lie and aren't picked up on it at all, and yet we're holding onto a lie that's 6 years old.


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 10:13 PM   #51
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
Yes, it should. But I don't think it will be, and if it is, I don't think it will change much at this point in time. Sadly, people lie and aren't picked up on it at all, and yet we're holding onto a lie that's 6 years old.
I think you might be missing the point though: what else has he lied about?

Once someone has shown a disposition toward dishonesty, you have to question the veracity of everything else they say. For instance, his repeated statements that Iraq is key to the war on terror even though several members of his administration helped to craft a 90-page document which stated that Iraq was key to American imperialism one year prior to 9-11. Food for thought.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 10:17 PM   #52
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Quote:
I think you might be missing the point though: what else has he lied about?
No, no I got what you were saying. I was talking about that instance. I don't think we should trust many people, but our President is one person we should. Everyone lies no matter how big or small, but you're right, it's just interesting what else he may have lied about. I trust him because most of what he says is true, but I always have parts to disagree with him about, as I'm sure you do also.


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 10:23 PM   #53
Point Man
Seeker of Truth
 
Point Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The People's Palace
Posts: 612
My biggest beef with Bush is that I believe he puts his loyalty to friends above the good of the nation. Rumsfeld was a liability to our efforts in Iraq, but he did not sack him until much too late.


Show me a man who is twenty and not a liberal, and I will show you a man with no heart.
Show me a man who is forty and not a conservative, and I will show you a man with no brain.

Point Man is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 10:26 PM   #54
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
I don't think we should trust many people, but our President is one person we should.
Why?
This isn't a monarchy. Bush wasn't appointed by the grace of god. Our leaders are human and corruptible. If they lie, and are caught lying, they should not be trusted. Where does accountability fit into your worldview?
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2007, 11:10 PM   #55
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Personally? I don't trust our politicans and our leaders as much as I'd like to( if at all). They are mere humans like us, and like us can lie and be tempted. I have some faith in Bush, and hopefully he'll be able to make good on any lies he has said. So, yes, Bush ( and other leaders) should be held accountable for their lies and how they deal with them.

By the way, this is great talking with you. Normally people don't bother to ask my opinion, they just think of what mine is and bash it. You don't, and that it is very respectable.


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-16-2007, 04:43 PM   #56
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
Kal Onasi: That is the point of Kavar's corner and part of the rules concerning debate. If it were mindless bashing, it would be considered flaming and against the rules. Here in Kavar's corner, we listen. We don't have to necessarily agree with it but we will listen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Don't put words in my mouth. Please.
He only was taking what you said. Don't get bent out of shape. Sometimes your own wording puts the wrong idea in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
It is due to the fact of "security, security, security" chant I hear all the time that I make the conclusion that people want it.
Is that truly the majority or is it the minority? I can tell you for certain that at least in my neighborhood there are some things about security that we wouldn't agree on. It could be that the minority with the greatest chance of being heard is screaming it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
To explain. Our definitions of privacy has changed for a long time. Security cameras exist so that we feel a culture of fear. I shouldn't have to walk around and have this "viewscreen" indicating that at any given moment, in any public place, someone may be watching me...that's part of the 1984 criqitue, you know? The constant surviallance. Worse in Great Britian as well.
Aren't you becoming a little paranoid? Some measure of security is necessary because we are a culture that prizes possessions and we do what it takes to protect them. For some it is money, for others it may be something priceless like a painting or rare jewelry. For those things, we employ security measures to protect them whether it is a security vault or survelliance cameras. Another thing, are survelliance cameras really a bad thing? After all we use them in convenience stores and they have helped catch the bad guys who robbed the store. Makes me wish that the restaurant I worked at had a camera when we got robbed.
I do think that there has to be limitations on it though. The warrantless wiretapping that just got passed is something that I don't agree with. We have the privacy rights for a reason and we squabbled to get them when the points came up in trial cases before the Supreme Court. If we truly valued privacy, then we would protest against it. I know it has already been signed and all but we still have the rights that are guaranteed under the Constitution one of them being freedom of speech.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-16-2007, 05:57 PM   #57
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
Quote:
He only was taking what you said. Don't get bent out of shape. Sometimes your own wording puts the wrong idea in.
Okay, yeah. Sorry for the, um, confusion that I make via my statements. I'd probraly be best off backing away from what I said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
SilentScope001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-16-2007, 06:22 PM   #58
Son of Skywalker15
Rookie
 
Son of Skywalker15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 167
Quote:
Kal Onasi: That is the point of Kavar's corner and part of the rules concerning debate. If it were mindless bashing, it would be considered flaming and against the rules. Here in Kavar's corner, we listen. We don't have to necessarily agree with it but we will listen.
I'm well aware of that. Just because it's the point, it doesn't mean people abide by it and always do it. If that were the case we wouldn't need laws and rules


Founder & PR of EUCantina.net -- All Expanded Universe, all the time
Son of Skywalker15 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2007, 03:56 AM   #59
Obss Damell
Rookie
 
Obss Damell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: unknown regions
Posts: 94
Current Game: Mass Effect 2/KOTOR2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
The point is that if our objective was to end tyranny and bring peace and democracy, then we should be just as involved in Darfur as we are in Iraq. But Iraq just happens to be oil-rich (moreso than Sudan, which isn't even in the top 20) and considered by many military policy think-tanks to be key to influencing the middle-east.

The fact is that N.Korea, Iraq, and Iran were all identified as threats by PNAC in September 2000. A year later we have 9/11 and then 18 months later we're at war with Iraq under the pretenses of terrorism. How convenient.
amen to that!

Obss Damell is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2007, 03:08 PM   #60
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Nope I am definitely not a Bush supporter, but here is my 2 cents.

Well, a few things of note:

1) If we are trying to end Tyrany in some other countries, mind as well do in in the ones we can benefit from.

2) I can see fighting back(or even revenge) is justified, but extending the said actions to entities weakly related to the incident is going a bit too far.

3) Dying for the freedom of your own country is one thing, doing so for some other dude's country is a whole different thing. Doing it for profit(not your own) is just a bad thing.

4) Starting a war on more than one front is not a good idea either.

5) Sometimes money can be better spend internally, there are lots of things that needs fixing.

6) Maybe there is a time to pull out and let people dealt with their own problem, we have certainly done enough. And while unfortunate, getting into a civil war between people-with-religious-sects-as-an-excuse is never a good idea. Especially true when both sides considers your viewpoint to be "evil".
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-18-2007, 06:34 AM   #61
Rogue Warrior
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Geelong Australia
Posts: 207
Iraq. His steadfast determination to attack Iraq no matter what has earned him and his country great resentment.

Last edited by Rogue Warrior; 09-19-2007 at 06:28 AM.
Rogue Warrior is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-18-2007, 05:19 PM   #62
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
Tyranny as defined by Webster-Merriam is an oppressive power exerted by government; a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force. Full definition here.

That I'll give that Saddaam was a tyrant but is anyone else who doesn't agree with our ideas of western civilization called a tyrant?

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-23-2007, 03:29 AM   #63
Rogue Warrior
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Geelong Australia
Posts: 207
That would depend on what qualifications you would feel make a tyrant. Gassing of the Kurds for example, or Palestinian children being used as suicide bombers.
Rogue Warrior is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-23-2007, 02:44 PM   #64
Totenkopf
English spoken in What
 
Totenkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: What?
Posts: 4,787
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Member The Walking Carpets Guild Member Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMaster12
Tyranny as defined by Webster-Merriam is an oppressive power exerted by government; a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force. Full definition here.

That I'll give that Saddaam was a tyrant but is anyone else who doesn't agree with our ideas of western civilization called a tyrant?

Ideals might be a better word. There are no doubt a lot of ideas w/in the span of western civilization" that could probably be labeled as repugnant.

As to Bush, I think he's failed the country in many ways. The border policies of this government (though I don't think Gore/Kerry would have differed that greatly in the end) are detrimental to the nation. He's still trying to fight this war on the "cheap" and he's not vetoed almost anything in his whole tenure so far either. It's in some ways like Johnson's guns'n butter approach.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
Totenkopf is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > Why is Bush a bad president?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.