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Old 09-19-2007, 02:06 AM   #1
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Florida Student Tasered at Kerry Forum

Here's the link to a main article:

http://www.villagevoice.com/blogs/ru...da_student.php

I don't know about you, but I find the actions of the police outrageous. They advanced on this kid and ended up tasering him with no provocation, and in doing so violated his rights of free speech. What is this, the world of the secret police, where they arrest you for speaking out against someone politically? I thought free speech was one of the most important rights we have - and here we have police violating them.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:14 AM   #2
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To my knoweledge of the case, the kid was imposing into the time of others, began kicking and fighting the cops when they attempted to seperate him from the mic LONG after his time ran out.

not to mention this was a private function and people could be asked to leave if necessary. Free speech does not give you a free ticket to be an ass. Which is what this kid was being.


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Old 09-19-2007, 02:25 AM   #3
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The kid wasn't being an ass. In fact, he said thanks to Kerry in the beginning, then gave some background info to his questions, and then asked them. Then, all of a sudden - bam. His mic is cut *without* warning. Then police began to drag him off.

As I said, no provocation either. He wasn't asked, he was dragged and then told to leave. True, I agree. Just cause you have free speech doesn't mean you can be an ass, but.... he does have the right. The cops were the ones acting wrongfully anyways, they didn't ask him to leave, they just began dragging him off.

Not only that, they have no right to drag some kid to the ground who has done nothing wrong and taser him multiple times, while the kid is screaming for them to stop. What sickens me is that at first the audience was laughing and applauding like it was a show.... although they weren't when they started tasering him. It was totally uncalled for.

Seriously, if you watch the video, you can hear the kid say "I'll leave the building" or something similar to the officers. But they don't let him up and throw him on the ground. And then these taser-happy cops start shocking him; come on, like 5 cops, and they can't subdue him without a taser?

It was also sickening to hear John Kerry make remarks about "too bad he (the kid) couldn't inaugurate me as President" and not even make any effort to step in.
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Old 09-19-2007, 03:30 AM   #4
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now that video was appalling. if there isn't an outcry over this, then there truly is no justice in this world. my guess is that those cops were under orders to arrest him, but the way that they underwent it was way overdone.

in truth, he was being rather combative towards those police, but honestly, i don't see why he would have acted differently given the fact that he was being arrested without anything explained to him.

seriously, this was just plain wrong, and something needs to be done.


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Old 09-19-2007, 03:38 AM   #5
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He was tasered because he resisted the police. That is all there is to it. Trying to make something of it that its not, is silly at best.

He was getting worked up and two officers came in to escort him out. It is VERY unlikely he would have been arrested. For one thing, its more paperwork for the cops. Seriously, arresting someone means paperwork. Escorting someone from a building does not. Also, at public events, cops are more likely to escort people out of a building than arrest them. Its only when they person is drunk or really disorderly that they are arrested.

They would have preferred to let him go on his merry way after he left the room/building, but the kid saw the cops and decided he was being arrested. At that point he freaked out and started yelling about being arrested and tried to fight with the cops. He was clearly agitated BEFORE the cops stepped in and when he saw a badge, his "fight or flight" told him to fight.

People act like a idiot and when the cops come in they decide to fight them, but its the cops fault...

I couldn't get the video you posted to load for some reason, but I found this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6...elated&search=

Watch the order of events carefully.
1) The kid was on the mic talking to Kerry and getting worked up. You can see the cops are standing behind him. They likely moved into that position when they felt he might be trouble. Notice, they are just standing there watching. You can see the female cop turn to her partner, likely they are discussing if they need to take action. Its also possible they where already standing there, or a few feet back, as it appears the mic was set up there.

2) The mic cuts out. At a public even, especially a political even, the sound system operator has to be ready. An even such as this is supposed to be an orderly question and answer type of thing, but the kid was overworked and the sound operator cut his mic. The cops, who where already in position, stepped in to escort him out.

3) The kid realizes the mic is cut off and makes a frustrated gesture. He then sees the cops stepping up to him and freaks out. Important note: They DID NOT have their handcuffs out at this point.

4) The kid decides hes being arrested unfairly and starts yelling about it as well as fighting with the cops. At this point, we see a cop with a taser step in, but he does not fire. You can hear him yelling "Put your hands behind your back." The kid does not.

5) After more struggling and yelling, the cops wrestle him to the ground but he continues to fight them. He is warned multiple times that if he does not stop struggling, that he will be tased. He yells "Don't tase me," but still continues to struggle. Asking not to be tased isn't going to stop them if you're still fighting...

Did they need to tase him? Probably not. But to make it sound like they did so with no provocation is in error.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
in truth, he was being rather combative towards those police, but honestly, i don't see why he would have acted differently given the fact that he was being arrested without anything explained to him.
You posted as I was typing my response. Anyway, I just want to point out that he was NOT being arrested until he started fighting with the cops. He was being escorted out. I made the point earlier, but notice they did not have their handcuffs out.


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Old 09-19-2007, 06:33 AM   #6
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The tazer gun was maybe overstepping the margin. Those who feel there is something to answer to should chase up someone like the DPP or an Inspector so an internal investigation would be launched. Any move to put this into effect should be public so that an investigation is not quashed.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:50 AM   #7
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Another important note is that Kerry tried to tell the cops not to taze the guy.

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Old 09-19-2007, 11:50 AM   #8
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I agree the police may have overreacted, but I don’t see how they violated his right of free speech. His allotted time was up, so he was actually violating the next questioner’s rights. Also when a police officer ask you to jump, the correct answer is how high. He was after all resisting arrest, plain and simple; the police have the authority and duty to place people under arrest. They do not have the authority to lock you away for life, just as the police may have overreacted so did the college student.

How did he know they were not just going to escort him outside to stop any kind of disturbance? He never gave them a chance to explain. He just started yelling and waving his body around without any real provocation by the police. Thus assuring himself of actually being placed under arrest.
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Old 09-19-2007, 12:15 PM   #9
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Looks like this guy is widely known for being a attention hound and a practical joker.
IMO he deliberately provoked this incident. As for the Police it looked to me as is they were exercising considerable restraint and were completely within their rights to taser him especialy considering they warned him several time to quit resisting.


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Old 09-19-2007, 01:22 PM   #10
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No. Tazering should be restricted to self-defense against people who truly pose a threat to the police. Not a single unarmed person already being subdued by several officers. That US police resorts to violence this easily is disturbing.

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Old 09-19-2007, 01:46 PM   #11
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I'm really on the fence about this. Both parties - the student and the cops - should have acted differently. The student should not have acted the way he did, but for the cops to taser him while he was already on the ground subdued is ridiculous. He was begging for mercy and they shot him anyway. I find it hard to believe that it took so many cops to bring him under control. I have seen people strung out of PCP subdued by far fewer cops than it took to control this skinny kid. It shouldn't have taken a taser in addition to 10 or more cops to get him out of there. In fact, the kids attorney is now saying that the cuffs were on BEFORE they shocked him.

However, in light of the fact the kid is known for pushing the envelope, I am inclined to believe that this was just his latest endeavor to wake people up. If his intention was to show that we truly don't have as free a speech as we think we do, he definitely proved his point. The cops ignored Kerry when he said he would answer the boy's questions and proceeded to take him away before he heard the answers. Just another chip in the stone of Liberty.

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Old 09-19-2007, 01:52 PM   #12
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Sorry Dagobahn I will have to disagree. IMO if someone is stupid enough to actively resist and strugle with a POLICE OFFICER they deserve to be tasered. Thats just my opinion. Is it harsh? Yes I'll admit that all day long, but then I have nothing but the highest respect for Law Enforcment Officers. Again just my opinion.


EDIT. Removed a statment that was too broad a generalization and went too far.


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Last edited by Caius Fett; 09-19-2007 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 09-19-2007, 02:59 PM   #13
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I agree with Caius Fett here. The officer issued commands to submit and be quiet while before the handcuffs were applied. There was a moment where he could have decided to comply but instead the kid continued to yell as the cuffs were being applied including using the F word. At that point it was obvious the kid's hysteria was not going to subside. The taser was used to end the spectacle and bring order back to the chaos this kid brought on.

Handcuffs don't prevent headbutts or kicks from a hysterical person.
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:05 PM   #14
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Listen to the police. Don't get tazered. It's easy.

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Old 09-19-2007, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Another important note is that Kerry tried to tell the cops not to taze the guy.
I would like to be sure about this, any more info on this point?
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MdKnightR
However, in light of the fact the kid is known for pushing the envelope, I am inclined to believe that this was just his latest endeavor to wake people up. If his intention was to show that we truly don't have as free a speech as we think we do, he definitely proved his point. The cops ignored Kerry when he said he would answer the boy's questions and proceeded to take him away before he heard the answers. Just another chip in the stone of Liberty.
no, he's right, you DONT have free speech at a private gathering where each speaker has an allotted amount of time to say what they will. You are not free to simply go on and on infringing upon the time allotted to others to speak.

Free speech does not give people permission to use that right to infringe upon other's rights.


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Old 09-19-2007, 08:04 PM   #17
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That makes me extremely angry.

Sure, the guy was more than a little worked up, but that does not by any means justify escorting him out of the building. Kerry should have interrupted him, answered a few questions, and let him respond. The rent-a-cops were unnecessary in the first place, and I think this event, especially the crowd's reactions, is indicative of how degraded the rights of the individual are in this country.

He should not be deprived of his right to speak his mind, "practical joker" or no, if he waited in line and followed proper forum procedures. I am thoroughly disgusted.





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Old 09-19-2007, 08:15 PM   #18
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Serves him right. There are way too many rude, inconsiderate and arrogant people like that running around, especially on college campuses. It's one thing to speak your mind, it's another to be so damn obnoxious about it that you deserve to have your ass tazered.

Personally, I would've nightclubbed him. In the face.

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Old 09-19-2007, 08:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by John Galt
He should not be deprived of his right to speak his mind, "practical joker" or no, if he waited in line and followed proper forum procedures.
that's the point, he DIDNT follow proper procedures and refused to step down when asked to do so, upon being removed, he freaked out.


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Old 09-19-2007, 08:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Fett
Sorry Dagobahn I will have to disagree. IMO if someone is stupid enough to actively resist and strugle with a POLICE OFFICER they deserve to be tasered. Thats just my opinion. Is it harsh? Yes I'll admit that all day long, but then I have nothing but the highest respect for Law Enforcment Officers. Again just my opinion.
Well, my personal opinion is, just cause you have the badge doesn't mean you can throw your weight around for no reason. That should make sense, right? I mean, these guys were way over the line. 4-5 cops and they couldn't handle him quietly? Come on.... An ex-cop made a remark about this, couldn't remember when she said it, but she knew a simple pinky move that could take someone down to their knees. Just her, with no help. She was surprised by the need to use a taser.

And also, just so you know, tasers hurt like hell. Just a fact. So maybe you might want to rethink "deserved" to be tasered. After all, as I said:

Just cause someone is being a little loud, maybe even obnoxious.... does that mean that they should not be allowed to speak and should be dragged off and tasered?

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Serves him right. There are way too many rude, inconsiderate and arrogant people like that running around, especially on college campuses. It's one thing to speak your mind, it's another to be so damn obnoxious about it that you deserve to have your ass tazered.
Is that your real opinion, or is that partially motivated by the nature of his political remarks? No offense BTW, dude.... I'm just asking.

Because, again (I'm repeating myself), simply being obnoxious does not warrant your right for free speech to be taken away and have you tasered by 4 wimpy police who can't handle you otherwise. Or maybe they were just itching to use a taser, I don't know.

Or think about this: would this have happened if the kid had been praising Kerry? I honestly don't know. But the fact is, someone didn't like what he was saying, or how he was saying it. But that isn't a crime, people. It's just not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
that's the point, he DIDNT follow proper procedures and refused to step down when asked to do so, upon being removed, he freaked out.
In doing what? Besides, the police cut his mic first. He wasn't asked, they just flat out cut him off and said "you have to leave". At which place, joker or not as John Galt said, he protested. And was right to protest. I mean, the cops were not following "proper procedure".... there was no reason to drag him out. Let Kerry handle it, he's now saying that he should have handled it himself and that the cops were too jumpy. But there would have been no situation if the cops had just backed off.

If someone's going to drag you off for no crime, wouldn't you ask "what the....?!" Unless you didn't have any guts to stand up for your rights.
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Old 09-19-2007, 08:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
In doing what? Besides, the police cut his mic first. He wasn't asked, they just flat out cut him off and said "you have to leave". At which place, joker or not as John Galt said, he protested. And was right to protest. I mean, the cops were not following "proper procedure".... there was no reason to drag him out. Let Kerry handle it, he's now saying that he should have handled it himself and that the cops were too jumpy. But there would have been no situation if the cops had just backed off.

If someone's going to drag you off for no crime, wouldn't you ask "what the....?!" Unless you didn't have any guts to stand up for your rights.
No, his mic was simply cut. We don't know if the cops did it, if the sound controller did it, or if one of the political figures requested it. It was simply cut. Which was taken as a cue for the cops to ask him to leave.

And they had no reason to drag him out, he was told to leave, requested to leave, what difference does it make? The cops came up to him and told him he needed to leave. Wow, big deal, so he wouldn't get to blast his agenda in front of a couple political figures who were probly the wrong target anyway.

Any sensible person would think thusly:
My message was just cut off
The Police as asking me to leave.
I don't want to get hurt, so I should just leave.

At some point in this guy's train of thought, he thought the best solution would be to refuse to leave, struggle when he was made to leave and completely freak out and try and get away.

He wasn't even being accused of a crime, he was simply being asked to leave. Which anybody with the authority to do so can request of ANY person in such a meeting. Police, Kerry, sound guy, whatever.

People who have done nothing wrong have no reason to freak when the cops ask you to leave. You simply realize that now's not the place for whatever you're doing, and you leave. And given that this guy has a record of causing trouble, I wouldn't be surprised if this was just another instance of that.


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Old 09-19-2007, 09:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
Is that your real opinion, or is that partially motivated by the nature of his political remarks? No offense BTW, dude.... I'm just asking.
That's my real, honest opinion. I couldn't give two ****s about the nature of his remarks. Fact of the matter is, he was being a snot and taking up other people's time at a debate where such time is obviously limited and when asked to leave, he stood his ground. That's abusing your right to free speech.




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Old 09-19-2007, 09:18 PM   #23
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Interesting article they have on him, especially for his background.

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Andrew Meyer has been described as "a known prankster who often posts practical jokes online."[12] His website, www.theandrewmeyer.com, contains videos posted by Meyer including pranks against Harry Potter fans along with a written diatribe against the media and the Iraq War. The official police report states that Meyer asked a woman if she was recording him moments before beginning his questions.[9] The report states that "as [Meyer] was escorted down stairs with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again." Additionally, the report states that Meyer was "laughing and being lighthearted in the car, his demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight."[13] During the ride, Meyer is reported to have said to the police officers that "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job."[1] Meyer then asked if there were going to be cameras present at the jail.
It's not strictly related to the event there, but it does help establish his character.

The kid sounds like a snotbag to me. The police say "keep struggling and we'll tazer you," while he screams "DON'T TAZER ME BRO" and goes on struggling... Given his background I really wouldn't be surprised if it was all a publicity stunt.


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Old 09-19-2007, 10:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I mean, these guys were way over the line. 4-5 cops and they couldn't handle him quietly?
Come to think of it, a tranquilizer gun would have been perfect in that situation.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:33 AM   #25
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The reason the mic was cut was because each person had a time limit to speak to Kerry (heard this on WGN radio today). The kid's time was up.

It's very easy to arm-chair quarterback this. Look at it from the perspective of what the cops saw:

Guy is asking some odd questions that make him sound kind of paranoid.
Guy's time is up at the mic. He doesn't leave. Mic is cut. Guy still doesn't leave.

Kerry's an ex-Presidential candidate who's still a target by loonies. Guy talking about conspiracy theories and refusing to leave the mic even after it's turned off could fall into the loony category. Or someone high on some meth, coke, or any number of interesting drugs. The upstart of that is this: The cops have no idea what kind of person they're dealing with. Is he high and combative? Is he crazy and combative? Is he a threat to Kerry? Other students? Is he going to pull out a weapon that got missed going through security? Does he know martial arts so a weapon might not even be necessary?

Next, guy is asked to leave by campus police. Guy refuses and starts resisting. Cops tell him he's under arrest and try to do so. Guy then resists arrest. At this point the risk to the cops and to the guy has increased substantially. Guy is taken down and is kicking and struggling, which puts both the cops and him at high risk for injury.

I can see why it would take 5 or more people to subdue him. When you have someone fighting arrest and they're high or panicked, they can easily generate tremendous power. If they have any kind of combat/martial art experience, they're capable of generating even greater power. You never want to partly subdue someone. You want to completely and unequivocally subdue someone. While having 5 people pile on you will generally subdue you, it's not a sure thing. One time, I was helping do first aid on a guy who had gotten badly dehydrated during one of our mock Renaissance battles. He was just lucid enough to tell us he'd been in a hunter-killer unit in Vietnam, but hallucinating enough to tell us he was seeing the VC in rice paddies. In the hills of Western Pennsylvania. We didn't know if he had any head/neck/back injuries and since he'd been in an HK unit in Nam, we knew he knew how to kill in unarmed combat. We had one person each sitting or lying on his arms and legs--4 people, none of them lightweights, and a fifth holding his head still, trying to talk him down while we waited for the ambulance. He was not a big guy at all--maybe 140 or 150 or so. We just about got him settled down when the signal cannon 50 feet away went off to signal the end of that battle. The guy broke with reality, thinking he was getting bombed, and literally sat straight up to try to bolt, carrying three people with him. The people lying on his legs nearly got kicked off as he panicked completely. It took 2 more people, 7 total, to get him back down and subdued--and this is a guy who had been weakened quite a bit by the severe dehydration. We were extremely lucky that none of us got injured trying to help him.

So in the case of this guy, since he was resisting arrest even with 5 officers trying to deal with him, if I'd been in that situation and the guy was still bucking me even with 5 of us, I think I would have felt it was necessary not only for officer safety but also the guy's safety. With the limited information the cops had about the guy based on his comments and actions, I don't know if they really had any other viable choice. Tasering is preferable to nightsticks and guns, and they couldn't pepper spray the guy because there were too many other people around who'd be exposed to the chemical. Since physical restraint wasn't adequate, I think this was the only remaining choice they had to remove the threat the guy might have posed.

Tranquilizer guns aren't as effective--first, you have to hit the person just right for the dart to stick. Then, you have to wait for it to work. If the person yanks out the dart, the tranq won't get into his system. Third, there's a risk of life-threatening allergies and drug interactions--sticking someone with a tranq on top of whatever legal and/or illegal drugs are in a suspect's system could create bad interactions. Fourth, you might tranquilize to the point that someone stops breathing, especially if they have depressants or other tranquilizers on board already, and if the ambulance doesn't get there in time, it could cause serious injury or death. The taser's actually safer in that regard--no drug-drug interaction or anaphylactic allergy issues, and it works instantly and pretty reliably.


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Old 09-20-2007, 01:44 AM   #26
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I'm not ruling out the possibility that this kid might be an absolute jerk, I know that. But I'm focusing on what the police did, which was way out of line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
No, his mic was simply cut. We don't know if the cops did it, if the sound controller did it, or if one of the political figures requested it. It was simply cut. Which was taken as a cue for the cops to ask him to leave.
Yes, his mic was cut. And I don't know if you know this, but the cops were talking to the guy who did it, and when the guy cut the mic they were told to move in and get him out of there. Both the cops and the sound person were cutting his mic off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
And they had no reason to drag him out, he was told to leave, requested to leave, what difference does it make? The cops came up to him and told him he needed to leave. Wow, big deal, so he wouldn't get to blast his agenda in front of a couple political figures who were probly the wrong target anyway.
It would have been much simpler if they let him go on, or maybe even just gave him a "tap on the shoulder" or whatnot and said, "hey, your time is almost up bro." But no, I guess they had to be antagonistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
Any sensible person would think thusly:
My message was just cut off
The Police as asking me to leave.
I don't want to get hurt, so I should just leave.
I don't think I would. I'm not saying I would fight the police, but I sure wouldn't be thinking "oh, I should just leave." No. I'd would be thinking "why the ---- are you guys dragging me off, I haven't done anything!"

Besides, like he said, he wasn't doing anything wrong. And as I said just before, they could have handled it much differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
At some point in this guy's train of thought, he thought the best solution would be to refuse to leave, struggle when he was made to leave and completely freak out and try and get away.
Think about the context here. He's at a *political* forum here. And when you've done nothing wrong, and are getting dragged off for asking questions of a *political* nature, it starts to smell a bit.... hmmm, I'm not sure what word to use. I'm not saying it was, but that sure sounds like it. Remember, people do have the right to Free Speech here, and exercising shouldn't be a crime. Especially when that right seems to have been walking all over by some recently (in the sense of, "I can say what I want, but you can't" kind of thing).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
He wasn't even being accused of a crime, he was simply being asked to leave. Which anybody with the authority to do so can request of ANY person in such a meeting. Police, Kerry, sound guy, whatever.
Doesn't make it right. Or proper procedure by the cops. Just because they can, doesn't mean there should be no consequences for their wrong actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
People who have done nothing wrong have no reason to freak when the cops ask you to leave. You simply realize that now's not the place for whatever you're doing, and you leave. And given that this guy has a record of causing trouble, I wouldn't be surprised if this was just another instance of that.
On the contrary.... I think it would be exactly a reason to start freaking out. When you have done nothing wrong except ask tough questions (which I think political candidates should have to answer) then there should be NO, repeat, NO reason for the cops to remove you from the site. That, as I said, starts crossing the line from upholding peace to upholding a political agenda. Perhaps that would be your response. But I wouldn't stand for that kind of, I don't know, perhaps "censorship" would be the right word. I have the right to ask that question, and some cheap cops can't stop you on someone else's orders.

Because, really, was it the kid with an agenda, or the cops with the agenda that wanted to stop him from talking?

Even if the kid was an obnoxious punk.... I'm more worried about the cops trying to suppress what he was saying and then feeling that they could throw him out of the building based on that, than I am on this kid's behavior. Because who is going to police the police, I guess you could say.....
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:53 AM   #27
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I think this point about the mic might have gotten lost in my long post.

There was a time limit for people to ask questions. The kid's time was up, but he tried to continue talking. He was violating the rules set up for the people asking questions, and he was talking about odd stuff on top of it.


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Old 09-20-2007, 02:16 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I think this point about the mic might have gotten lost in my long post.

There was a time limit for people to ask questions. The kid's time was up, but he tried to continue talking. He was violating the rules set up for the people asking questions, and he was talking about odd stuff on top of it.

Actually, his mic was cut when he used a sexually explicit remark that detailed why Clinton was impeached.

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Old 09-20-2007, 02:58 AM   #29
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Well, he did do that, too, but he'd already gone past his time limit anyway.


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Old 09-20-2007, 04:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Tranquilizer guns aren't as effective
Works in the movies pretty well.

And this was a home movie.


Ergo...
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
The kid's time was up, but he tried to continue talking. He was violating the rules set up for the people asking questions, and he was talking about odd stuff on top of it.
Now I obviously don't know the context of what EXACTLY went on before the video I've seen begins, but his mic gets cut off, he continues talking for about a second (You've got to try and say a few words before you realize that you've been turned off, yes?) and then the police step in right quick and GRAB HIM.

Now maybe I simply am unaware that the police tried to ask him nicely to leave before clutching at his arms, but what kind of response do they really expect? He's a 21 year old in a political forum, doing nothing wrong, and suddenly he is being forcibly ejected without even being given the opportunity to leave of his own volition? Yes, he could have handled it better, but the police created a situation where none should have existed.



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Old 09-20-2007, 06:42 AM   #32
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The police subject cadets to things such as capsicum stray so they know the effect it has. I doubt any member would have the 'shocking' opinion that someone deserves what they get.

On Andrew Meyer, it seems he wanted to play up the issue of police brutality and otherwise gain attention for the cameras and incite anger.
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I'm not ruling out the possibility that this kid might be an absolute jerk, I know that. But I'm focusing on what the police did, which was way out of line.
Tasering him 10 times might be out of line, once is not so bad. A little overreaction? Sure, but cops are supposed to be the strong-arm that makes you play by the rules. Not you're best friend.

Quote:
Yes, his mic was cut. And I don't know if you know this, but the cops were talking to the guy who did it, and when the guy cut the mic they were told to move in and get him out of there. Both the cops and the sound person were cutting his mic off.
as is brought up by the posters before me, he also made some explicit remark about Clinton(Bill), which likly violated some "play nice" rule of the question forum. This also likly stirred the cops and sound guy into doing something.

Quote:
It would have been much simpler if they let him go on, or maybe even just gave him a "tap on the shoulder" or whatnot and said, "hey, your time is almost up bro." But no, I guess they had to be antagonistic.
And they did, they said "time up" and gave him a light tug on the arm, at which point he completly weirded out, thus requiring to be drug off. "letting people go" is not how you control a situation.

Quote:
I don't think I would. I'm not saying I would fight the police, but I sure wouldn't be thinking "oh, I should just leave." No. I'd would be thinking "why the ---- are you guys dragging me off, I haven't done anything!"
And fighting with the police would prove this? The best way to prove you are innocent, is to simply leave.

Quote:
Besides, like he said, he wasn't doing anything wrong. And as I said just before, they could have handled it much differently.
As I and others have been saying, he was in clear violation of the rules of the forum. Thus, YES he WAS doing something wrong.

Quote:
Think about the context here. He's at a *political* forum here. And when you've done nothing wrong, and are getting dragged off for asking questions of a *political* nature, it starts to smell a bit.... hmmm, I'm not sure what word to use. I'm not saying it was, but that sure sounds like it. Remember, people do have the right to Free Speech here, and exercising shouldn't be a crime. Especially when that right seems to have been walking all over by some recently (in the sense of, "I can say what I want, but you can't" kind of thing).
Again, he's being dragged off for freaking when told to leave and being an ass and disrespecting the forum rules. There is nothing this student is saying that a thousand other people who nobody listens to aren't saying, or havent said to Kerry before.

Exercising free speech is great, but the Forum had rules to be followed when doing so, one was a time limit, and another was likly respect and lack of cursing, all of which this kid broke, that sounds like good enough reason for me to throw somebody out of a political forum. In fact, that's why people get thrown out of THIS political forum.

Quote:
Doesn't make it right. Or proper procedure by the cops. Just because they can, doesn't mean there should be no consequences for their wrong actions.
They could have shot him. They could have beat the crap out of this guy. A single taser shot may hurt, but it ain't gonna kill you. As is proven by the fact that this kid is in good spirits afterward and ready again to freak before some cameras.

Quote:
On the contrary.... I think it would be exactly a reason to start freaking out. When you have done nothing wrong except ask tough questions (which I think political candidates should have to answer) then there should be NO, repeat, NO reason for the cops to remove you from the site. That, as I said, starts crossing the line from upholding peace to upholding a political agenda. Perhaps that would be your response. But I wouldn't stand for that kind of, I don't know, perhaps "censorship" would be the right word. I have the right to ask that question, and some cheap cops can't stop you on someone else's orders.
Again, he was removed from the forum for violating the rules he agreed to by being there in the first place. Which were a time limit and respect. Ask the tough questions by all means, but there's no need for disrespect or expletives.

Quote:
Because, really, was it the kid with an agenda, or the cops with the agenda that wanted to stop him from talking?
yes, because one random college student's oppression is going to stop it.[/sarcasm] If anything it'd make it worse and the agenda of the student get more attention. No, if you want to suppress an agenda, you don't do it where the mass media can get their hands on it. That only vindicates the student and promotes his agenda.

Quote:
Even if the kid was an obnoxious punk.... I'm more worried about the cops trying to suppress what he was saying and then feeling that they could throw him out of the building based on that, than I am on this kid's behavior. Because who is going to police the police, I guess you could say.....
I highly doubt whatever he had to say was very constructive anyway. Mud raking is great for sensationalism, but utterly pointless in the political system as it provides no solutins to the problem being complained about.

He violated the rules of the forum, and when he refused to go on his own, was made to leave.


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Old 09-20-2007, 07:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobQel-Droma
I'm more worried about the cops trying to suppress what he was saying and then feeling that they could throw him out of the building based on that, than I am on this kid's behavior.
Why would the cops give two ****s about what political drivel he was trying to say? People (celebrities, political pundits, Fox News commentators, etc.) say more outrageous things all the time and on national television, no less. You don't see them getting their asses tasered. The cops reacted to how he acted, not what he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ET Warrior
He's a 21 year old in a political forum, doing nothing wrong, and suddenly he is being forcibly ejected without even being given the opportunity to leave of his own volition? Yes, he could have handled it better, but the police created a situation where none should have existed.
I'm pretty sure that he was given the opportunity to leave of his own accord.

Imagine if you were the next person in line. This guy takes up more than his allotted time in questioning Kerry, when you're patiently waiting your turn at the mic. Are you going to tell the police "Oh no, don't make him leave, I want him to take up my mic time and cause a general ruckus by being a complete douchebag."

The police didn't create the situation, he did.




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Old 09-20-2007, 08:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
There was a time limit for people to ask questions. The kid's time was up, but he tried to continue talking. He was violating the rules set up for the people asking questions, and he was talking about odd stuff on top of it.
And that gives a reason to half a dozen cops to jump on him? The guy might have said stupidities but he was not threatening or endangering anyone's well being (other than their ears ).

If someone would have been tasered or given any kind of physical pain for that here, even after trying to resist arrest, it would have been a huge scandal and an investigation would likely have been launched (and some suspensions would have very likely been issued).

Maybe it's a culture thing but how this guy got tasered for that after being thrown on the floor by 5-6 police officers is beyond me...heck he couldn't even move, just "speak"
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Old 09-20-2007, 09:14 PM   #36
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It's not like the half dozen cops jumped on him while he was standing at the microphone. They tried to escort him out and he raised his voice and arms, saying "Is anyone taping this? I'm not going anywhere!" Then as he is being pushed towards the door he defies the officers again saying "Get away from me man!" and makes a move to get back into the forum. That's when the half dozen officers tackled him. At all times he refused to acknowledge the authority of the police including after they told him would be tased if he didn't settle himself.

Edit:

Alright I've been watching a number of other YouTube videos and it seems to me the cops were partially at fault for setting the stage for this. I was under the impression that this student had gone over his time allotment, but there are a number of statements that said he was only speaking for less than one minute after being physically escorted. Supposedly, two minutes was the time limit.

Plus the cops resorted to physical control over him right from the beginning. That was probably unnecessary. All that physicality that followed afterwards was set up by that.

So I retract some of my earlier venom towards this person, especially if the time limit thing wasn't actually violated.

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Old 09-20-2007, 10:30 PM   #37
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I'm on the side of the cops here. I personally believe they reacted to how he was acting, as in...

• Taking up other people's time on the microphone.
• Openly using profanity during the discussion.
• Resisting arrest.

As it has been stated above me, sure we have the rights of free speech. Does that mean we can abuse that and take up other's free speech? No it doesn't. He was asked to leave, and he didn't and tried to create chaos. He deserved his 'taserism' and i'm assuming he created more chaos after he was removed--

Code:
Andrew Meyer Arrested for Speaking at Kerry Forum
NOTE:  The following is not posted by Andrew Meyer, but has been posted by his friends.  
 
 
Andrew Meyer is currently incarcerated in Alachua County.  While asking U.S.
 Senator John Kerry a question during a question and answer period following Kerry's speech at the University of Florida, Meyer was attacked by five police
 officers, manhandled and tasered.  Fortunately there are videos and many
 witnesses to this injustice.  Some articles and videos are linked below.
  Please show your support by educating yourselves and raising awareness by
 letting others know what has happened.  Continue checking back to this website for updates.
I found that on his site-- http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/. Note that it says he is incarcerated in the Alachua County Jail. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't still be incarcerated right now unless he caused more trouble after.

Regards,
Krysk


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Old 09-20-2007, 10:41 PM   #38
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But still, was he that big of a thread. I'm ok with the police arresting him, but using a taser against him instead of tackling him down was just too much.


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Old 09-20-2007, 10:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JoeDoe 2.0
But still, was he that big of a threat. I'm ok with the police arresting him, but using a taser against him instead of tackling him down was just too much.
I disagree. He was a threat to the people around him, as one person above stated it was very possable he may have a weapon or martial arts training. The taser was justified because he could have quietly walked out, or even gave up after they jumped on him, but he didn't and had to be restrained to restore order.

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Old 09-20-2007, 10:54 PM   #40
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True, but come on, one officer was enough, maybe even two if he had martial arts training (doubtful by looking at him). If he had a weapon, then I agree. Bust still I'm not convinced that it was the best course of action, it was a hasty decision taken without deliberation.


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