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Old 10-23-2007, 10:30 PM   #41
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So does that mean Matrix Online is not a fun MMORPG? That game and Guild Wars were the only two MMORPG's I ever even considered playing.
Actually, it was my first MMO ever and I had a blast. It was fun, it was unique, and had great backing from the developers. Problem was, the game fell apart quickly due to poorly written story. They devs had it going for them, but the writers and company behind them didn't seem all too hasty to destroy the matrix story at all. The same thing is currently happening in WoW atm: Blizzard, due to poorly written story, has resorted to killing off every single one of their main characters. Only Arthas is left now, and the next Xpack you get to kill him.

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Originally Posted by Char Ell
From my perspective I see a lot of reasons why a KotOR MMORPG is a good idea. This gives players the opportunity to realistically play as a Jedi since there are a lot of Jedi in that period. SWG seems to be operating under a very tarnished image now. Maybe this would give SWG the opportunity to recast itself again, letting those players who want to play in a Jedi-filled environment go with KotOR and SWG returning to it's non-Jedi or sparse Jedi roots. Of course I personally prefer a single player experience but I would definitely be willing to give a KotOR MMORPG a whirl.
Agreed, the fact that the Jedi order after Kotor II was just starting up again would make sense in an MMO standpoint to have a lot of new Jedi running around training again. A different story from Galaxies, where they were supposed to be nearly extinct and over.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:06 AM   #42
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with All factions; Sith, Republic, Mandolorians, Jedis and gangs like black vulkars, Old Republic period contains a real Civil War and this will the best era for a possible Star Wars MMO.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:49 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
Problem was, the game fell apart quickly due to poorly written story. They devs had it going for them, but the writers and company behind them didn't seem all too hasty to destroy the matrix story at all.
Isn't that the challenge for all MMORPG's though? How do the writers construct a compelling storyline for the game when they need to design it in such a way so that the story can have tons of people participate in it. IMO it's much easier to design a story for one player character than thousands of player characters.

That is one of the things I find intriguing about BioWare's MMORPG, without even knowing what the game's content is. BioWare is very much focused on making story-driven games and has acquired some interesting technologies for their MMOG to aid in this effort. I'm very much interested in seeing what they end up with, regardless of whether the game is based on KotOR.


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Old 10-24-2007, 11:47 PM   #44
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Isn't that the challenge for all MMORPG's though? How do the writers construct a compelling storyline for the game when they need to design it in such a way so that the story can have tons of people participate in it. IMO it's much easier to design a story for one player character than thousands of player characters.
Yeah, you honestly got me there. It may be because I'm so used to single players games that I found the stories rather bland and unimagnative. But, like you said, that is the challenge for the writiers.
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:18 AM   #45
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The core problem is that an RPG is supposed to be a heavily story-driven story with a lot of character development and plot. An MMORPG by it's very nature is social-driven, where teaming up with friends and questing, as well as role-playing your designed character in the world, is the primary purpose. You're really supposed to write your own story with an MMO style social game, and that's why the concocted plotlines usually fall apart. It's just a different beast from the classic RPG...and they should stay separated instead of making more hybrid games...
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:41 AM   #46
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Just on a side note, the way the developers left us with Kotor 2 IS an ideal start for a MMO.

Just a few points:
Kotor 2 ended at 3,951 BBY, with an destroyed Jedi order (according to sources, only Bastila Shan, Jolee Bindo, Juhani, and Atris survived, together with the 'Lost Jedi children, which are Atton and the rest of your K2 party).
The next big conflict in the SW timeline are the New Sith Wars, which take place from 2,000 to 1,000 BBY.

So there's actually Thousand year of timeline open to be rewritten. The Jedi is nothing after K2, and at full strenght at the next conflict. Plenty of room to put an MMO in, no?

Plus, the Kotor games left us with severalminteresting features and factions. In Galaxies, everyone wanted to be a Jedi, whilst in Kotor, there are professions and species that can form a challenge for you without being Jedi.
We got the Mandalorians, smuggelers, Republic, Sith Remnant?, Mercenaries, etc.

I think those factions can really appeal to players, and make sure not everyone goes to play a Jedi. Combine this with some...creative skills to power the factions (poision darts for the bounty hunter, cortosis layered swords) and the Jedi aren't that invicible

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Old 10-25-2007, 06:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
The same thing is currently happening in WoW atm: Blizzard, due to poorly written story, has resorted to killing off every single one of their main characters. Only Arthas is left now, and the next Xpack you get to kill him.
One of the producers of WoW stated that they made an error with Illidan. He was barely present in Burning Crusade. However, he said that they'll try to better include Arthas into the Wrath of the Lich King story.

As far as I know, not every single one of their main characters are dead. Up to now, only Illidan officially died, and no, great spoiler for you all, Kaelthas Sunstrider is not dead. Malfurion, Tyrande, Thrall, Jaina, Maev Shadowsong, etc. are still alive. So no, they're not killing everyone. This isn't the final two episodes of a Gundam serie.

In my opinion, the stories in WoW are decent. You can't really compare them single player RPGs, they're not meant to be the same. It's the same thing as complaining about the background of Battlefield 2 not being fleshed out enough.





Back on topic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
Just on a side note, the way the developers left us with Kotor 2 IS an ideal start for a MMO.
On the other hand, there's close to no Jedi left. Considering it's Star Wars and that, god knows, you need to play as a Jedi, it will be quite stupid to have a bunch of them running around.
Then there's the whole balance factor. How is it possible for Jedi, who are supersoldiers, to be properly balanced with other classes? I have very little doubt in my mind, that a Jedi class will outnumber every other one just because of the name itself. Only certain fans might choose another.
Then there's the decisions the player made when playing the last two games. How will that be handled?
Another problem, bosses. I assume that you will save the galaxy from the true Sith. Kind of silly to forget the whole thing after the last game. How will that be done? In a fantasy MMO, it makes sense to have a group of adventurers take down an evil overlord, but in Star Wars? I always thought that a good Star Wars story needed a climactic confrontation between two arch enemies. Not going to be the case with any KOTOR MMO.


Somebody suggested this in some forum. The KOTOR MMO should take place during the Mandalorian Wars. It would make much more sense.



The myth of MMORPGs making more money -

I don't know why people make such a simplistic calculation, as if MMORPGs had no production costs and were all incredibly successful. Perhaps World of WarCraft clouds everyone's minds. Yes, the game had a lot of success and still is the reigning king, but it's an exception. Will a KOTOR MMO somehow magically make huge amounts of money? I don't know. People will certainly look at it, pay attention to it. Of course, it's Bioware who would make it, assuming the rumor is true. Of course they're good, but, they're humans and can make a bad game. A beta can come out, it might suck and people won't buy the game. It could be a flop.

Don't assume MMO = more money. The end result, the quality of the game, still matters.


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Old 10-26-2007, 09:54 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by lukeiamyourdad
Don't assume MMO = more money. The end result, the quality of the game, still matters.
Plus the post-release support costs are much, much higher.

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Old 10-26-2007, 05:57 PM   #49
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Well for me it doesn't really matter if KOTOR III is a MMO or just a normal RPG it would be intresting with a Kotor MMO i would surely try it but for now i'm just hoping that they will make the Kotor III
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:29 PM   #50
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I really can't bear the prospect of a KOTOR mmo! It's horrible... I played SWG a few months ago and the community was just really nasty. It's the same crowd that would play a KOTOR MMO, I really don't want to have to associate with these kind of people just to get back into the KOTOR universe.

And we'd probably be charged on top of it, it's just stupid...

It would kill what was special about the first two games. I genuinely hope it doesn't happen.

EDIT: and I don't think there's much point discussing further the possibility or material left for an MMO. The chance of it happening is (unfortunately) very real, there needs to be more focus on finding out if it is happening from a reliable source, and what the majority opinion is. How big the majority is is also relevant, I'm sure everyone would be happy with a normal RPG KOTOR III, but clearly there are people that would argue against an MMO. Surely the safe option is to follow the trend set by KOTOR1 and TSL?

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Old 10-26-2007, 09:12 PM   #51
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I really can't bear the prospect of a KOTOR mmo! It's horrible... I played SWG a few months ago and the community was just really nasty. It's the same crowd that would play a KOTOR MMO, I really don't want to have to associate with these kind of people just to get back into the KOTOR universe.

Unfortunately, since the NGE came out most of the veteran player base (myself included, I played for almost 2 years until the NGE) left and the servers were left teeming with ravid players who has no intentions of bringing the game back to what is once was. Before the NGE, SWG was said to have on of the most friendly and helpful player bases in all of games. When I first started out, you just had to ask a player for help (not like "OMG GIVE ME SUM CREDZ PLZ" but actually asking for help) and you would usually get it. IMO, i feel that if the mmo is star wars based, most, if not all of the old veteran players that made SWG such a great experience for me would come back.
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Old 10-27-2007, 02:00 AM   #52
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On Gamespot.com, there's a rumor poll. One of the options is the Bioware MMO being KOTOR. The question is which rumor would you prefer it to be true. As of now, 33% voted for KOTOR being an MMO, behind GTA IV sporting a 16 player MP mode at 35%.

Of course, this internet poll does not represent the whole gaming community. Unfortunately for those against a KOTOR MMO, it's a sign that the potential is there.


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Old 10-27-2007, 11:13 AM   #53
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Unfortunately, since the NGE came out most of the veteran player base (myself included, I played for almost 2 years until the NGE) left and the servers were left teeming with ravid players who has no intentions of bringing the game back to what is once was. Before the NGE, SWG was said to have on of the most friendly and helpful player bases in all of games. When I first started out, you just had to ask a player for help (not like "OMG GIVE ME SUM CREDZ PLZ" but actually asking for help) and you would usually get it. IMO, i feel that if the mmo is star wars based, most, if not all of the old veteran players that made SWG such a great experience for me would come back.

I had about 4 months on the pre-NGE system and yes it definately was better. I got wound up everytime I went to Eisely in NGE because of the "OMG GIVE ME SUM CREDZ PLZ" sort of attitude, argh annoying....

If KOTOR went that way though it would put me off it big time

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Old 10-28-2007, 03:22 AM   #54
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As of now, 33% voted for KOTOR being an MMO, behind GTA IV sporting a 16 player MP mode at 35%.
Now see if they combined the two they would be catering to an even larger majority of players...

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Old 10-28-2007, 01:39 PM   #55
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Anybody tried accessing http://lucasartsbioware.com?

EDIT: It's interesting that the above URL redirects to bioware.com while eabioware.com is parked with Sedo.


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Old 10-28-2007, 03:01 PM   #56
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yes i just did......hmmmmmmmmmmmm............might be left over fron when kotor came out but maybe it's a sign of what's to come!!
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Old 10-28-2007, 03:16 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by RedHawke
Now see if they combined the two they would be catering to an even larger majority of players...

My Grand Theft Speeder: Coruscant dream is even closer to fruition! Muahahahaha!
GTS would be far much better than KOTOR MMO. The whole premise of GTS would be much more, shall we say, humorous (like the GTA series is, being a satire on America), so any canon-messing and the gameplay being terrible would be forgiven. Count me in.

Quote:
Anybody tried accessing http://lucasartsbioware.com?
Let me try a whois. Something tells me maybe the domain is being registered by a hoaxster with far too much money.

EDIT: Confirmation. This is in fact offical-looking.

Quote:
Domain Name: lucasartsbioware.com

Status: clientDeleteProhibited, clientRenewProhibited, clientTransferProhibited, clientUpdateProhibited

Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com

Expiration Date: 2012-10-11
Creation Date: 2007-10-11
Last Update Date: 2007-10-23

Name Servers:
ns1.bioware.com
ns2.bioware.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:54 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001


Let me try a whois. Something tells me maybe the domain is being registered by a hoaxster with far too much money.

EDIT: Confirmation. This is in fact offical-looking.

Domain Name: lucasartsbioware.com

Status: clientDeleteProhibited, clientRenewProhibited, clientTransferProhibited, clientUpdateProhibited

Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: [url
http://registrar.godaddy.com[/url]

Expiration Date: 2012-10-11
Creation Date: 2007-10-11
Last Update Date: 2007-10-23

Name Servers:
ns1.bioware.com
ns2.bioware.com

I think finally we learn the IP man.
this is KOTOR, after this point i am %100 sure.
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Old 10-28-2007, 06:34 PM   #59
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It means beans though when you pull back and look at the bigger picture.


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Old 10-28-2007, 06:38 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by zaykodroid
I think finally we learn the IP man.
this is KOTOR, after this point i am %100 sure.
hallelujah touchdown!!!! i'm still crossing my fingers though.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:59 AM   #61
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It means beans though when you pull back and look at the bigger picture.
What is that supposed to mean? What is this "bigger picture" showing you?

FACTS:
- lucasartsbioware.com is hosted on BioWare's DNS servers and resolves to BioWare's home page.
- We don't know who the true owner of lucasartsbioware.com is.
- lucasartsbioware.com was registered on 2007 Oct. 11, the same day EA announced its acquisition of BioWare|Pandemic Studios.

If you know how to use nslookup to query one of BioWare's name servers this is what you get:
Quote:
> server ns1.bioware.com
Default Server: ns1.bioware.com
Address: 204.50.199.2

> lucasartsbioware.com
Server: ns1.bioware.com
Address: 204.50.199.2

Name: lucasartsbioware.com
Address: 204.50.199.15
IMO this means either BioWare is making an effort to misdirect people into thinking they have something going on with LucasArts or BioWare is indeed involved with LucasArts on a project. Since both cases would likely require LucasArts consent (due to BioWare using the LucasArts trademark in this domain) I tend to think it's likely the latter, mainly because I don't think LucasArts execs would allow BioWare to use the LucasArts name simply to misdirect people, if that is all it is intended to be used for.


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Old 10-29-2007, 09:15 AM   #62
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Hmm i wasnt aware of the facts. It could be that this mmo is indeed Kotor.


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Old 10-29-2007, 10:09 AM   #63
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^^^
That seems to be the prevailing conclusion. Though I think BioWare developing a KotOR MMORPG is the strongest possibility it is not the only possibility. This latest piece of information does appear to confirm that BioWare is involved with LucasArts in some sort of project. That is about as far as I'm willing to take it.


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Old 10-29-2007, 11:14 AM   #64
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I hope the mixed reaction from the KOTOR community will put Lucasarts off an MMO. Still hoping that this is about Lucasarts' non-star wars projects on the go that Bioware could be working with them on. Indiana Jones anyone? The film is in the works there's no reason why this can't be another Indiana game.

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Old 10-29-2007, 11:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM20
I hope the mixed reaction from the KOTOR community will put Lucasarts off an MMO. Still hoping that this is about Lucasarts' non-star wars projects on the go that Bioware could be working with them on. Indiana Jones anyone? The film is in the works there's no reason why this can't be another Indiana game.
Vaow, the mixed reaction ? 25 signatures ? LOL.
just go to gamespot and look at the poll at main papge, the rumors most want to be get real. Bioware KOTOR MMO, 2nd with over 15 000 votes.

Majority want KOTOR MMO. We want KOTOR MMO.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:20 PM   #66
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Listen, the majority are against KOTOR MMO. Look at the posts, look at the vents to see our anger and our hatred. We just don't bother with signing e-petitions because there is no point (and the polls on websites are VERY inaccurate). We don't decide, they decide. We only scream, vent, cry, and overall, won't spend our money. What's the point anyway? You don't control what the designers do either. It's LucasArts' IP.

And honestly? If KOTOR is going to come out with an MMO instead of #3, then there is no reason to play the KOTOR series anymore. After all, the storyline is likely going to be not that good (which is the only reason I play KOTOR). We'll see the True Sith get wiped off the face of the galaxy, that's certain, only it may take 3 years instead of 30 hours. Monthly fees are also a minus in my book. Maybe, just maybe, I might type up a "resigination" topic if Bioware does announce a KOTOR MMO, even though that's just a silly way to vent frustation at how they are "ruining the series".

Dragon Age really is better. It's original IP, meaning the MMO designers can do whatever they want to it. Plus, it has the word "dragon" in it, and if Dragon becomes a class in the Dragon Age MMO (unlikely), then that would really be interesting.


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Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:26 PM   #67
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Thats all your thought. you cant say anything about "we are majority" unless you have a statistical data. I am giving you, you can check the poll on gamespot.com and mmorpg.com. and i dont understand the people who doesnt want a KOTOR MMO. yes, you can really want a KOTOR 3 game, a single player game, and i want it too also but we want an Online KOTOR experience, too. but I never said "HEy dont make a KOTOR 3 because we want MMO !". we have respect to the demand of others, but you are trying the sabotage ours.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:48 PM   #68
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Hmm, very interesting Char El. I can't see LucasArts letting BioWare register that domain if it was only to fool people. And it being registered on the same day of the acquisition puts more authority on the possibility that they are indeed working on something. Personally with that I have no doubt LucasArts and BioWare are working on something, whether it is a Knights MMO I wouldn't know.


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Old 10-29-2007, 01:06 PM   #69
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Wrong. Majority want KOTOR3. Everyone will settle for a single player RPG in the style of K1 and TSL, not everyone will settle for an MMO. Of course if they're seperate products, no one's arguing.

And do you really think that petition shows the overall opinion of everyone that is waiting for KOTOR3? I wouldn't blame people for not bothering to sign it. It's hardly an official protest is it....

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Old 10-29-2007, 01:24 PM   #70
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How do you know what majority want ? I am referancing two polls now going on. and you? dont speculate man give me numbers.
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:23 PM   #71
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Erm, how do I know the majority want KOTOR3? Have you seen how many threads are around that give ideas for KOTOR3 and asking for KOTOR3 news? It's obvious.

I'm not arguing with your polls. Read my post. I've said:

EVERYONE wants KOTOR3 in some form.
Not everyone wants an MMO KOTOR3.
Everyone would be happy with a normal RPG for KOTOR3.

Evidence - before this rumour about an MMO came about, the hype was still there with 100% of the KOTOR players here about a normal RPG KOTOR3. No one argued that it should be an MMO unless I'm mistaken? And even if someone did, they were by no means a majority.

So based on that, common sense dictates that the obvious thing to do is to make an RPG.

And this arguing over what the majority wants is pretty much irrelevant. As SilentScope001 said, it's not our choice what the game becomes.

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Old 10-29-2007, 02:30 PM   #72
zaykodroid
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No i dont. if there will be no MMO just KOTOR3 i wont be happy and there are thousands of people wont be happy.
if you say "majority of fans want kotor 3" then you must have evidance. proof. NUMBERS. if you have not then please..
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:23 PM   #73
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Well, since none of you actually know whats going on and are throwing around debates based on theory and rumor...

Like Silent said, you can hate the idea all you want, but I doubt that will change the fact that -something- is being made. Do we know 100% that it is a KOTOR MMO? No. Do we know for fact a majority or minority wants or does not want the game? No. Will your personal opinion have any effect on the outcome of this game? No. From the news, the MMO is already playable and in an early beta at Bioware, so whatever it is they have done regardless of the community.

Is anybody forcing you to play this game? No. Sure, a lot of you may be ticked that you probably wont be playing KOTOR III, but you still don't have to accept the MMO has been been made and you don't have to accept the story is true.

So, until whatever game they are making is announced and confirmed 100%, don't try and bite at eachother's throats.
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:33 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaykodroid
No i dont. if there will be no MMO just KOTOR3 i wont be happy and there are thousands of people wont be happy.
if you say "majority of fans want kotor 3" then you must have evidance. proof. NUMBERS. if you have not then please..

Then please, give me evidence that thousands of people won't be happy with an RPG single player KOTOR.

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Old 10-29-2007, 04:00 PM   #75
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do you see there is no evidence? so we shouldnt state certain ideas about not a kotor mmo or not a kotor 3 game, we should respect others' demand. you can say "we want kotor 3" but it is not nice to say "hey dont do it MMORPG we dont want it" because we want it.
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:49 PM   #76
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to be honest, i actually hate mmo's. i tried a few (everquest, WoW). i hated them both immensley. Oh well, maybe it will be like Diablo II and let you do both.


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Old 10-29-2007, 05:42 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Listen, the majority are against KOTOR MMO. Look at the posts, look at the vents to see our anger and our hatred. We just don't bother with signing e-petitions because there is no point (and the polls on websites are VERY inaccurate). We don't decide, they decide. We only scream, vent, cry, and overall, won't spend our money. What's the point anyway? You don't control what the designers do either. It's LucasArts' IP.

And honestly? If KOTOR is going to come out with an MMO instead of #3, then there is no reason to play the KOTOR series anymore. After all, the storyline is likely going to be not that good (which is the only reason I play KOTOR). We'll see the True Sith get wiped off the face of the galaxy, that's certain, only it may take 3 years instead of 30 hours. Monthly fees are also a minus in my book. Maybe, just maybe, I might type up a "resigination" topic if Bioware does announce a KOTOR MMO, even though that's just a silly way to vent frustation at how they are "ruining the series".
QFT

If other people like MMOs, then fine, but I don't, and I don't want one for KotOR both because it seems to me to violate the plot that is being told in the games so far and because MMORPGs tend to focus on group cooperation and experience over plot, which is the major reason why I play GTA or KotOR games instead of WoW or Eve Online. It's quite simple really - in a MMO, the player MUST be the hero, no matter what character he or she is playing, and with that being true for every single character in the game, there is little room for a deep plot. Single player CRPGs can dictate certain things, however, and so do deeper plots. That's why I play them. And while I have no problem with other people preferring MMOs, there is no way I'm going to voice any sort of support for one just because they do.


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Old 10-29-2007, 05:59 PM   #78
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Well, hate it all you want. It isn't going to stop the fact that some kind of MMO is being made by Bioware. Do we know it is KOTOR? No. And even if it is, what can any of us do to stop it?

Bite at eachother's opinions all you like, but so far the only solid fact that we know is that an MMO of some sort is being made. The overly paranoid and overly happy lot are blowing this up into what it is now: A cluster of rumors and theory.

I can understand why some would prefer an MMO and some would prefer a Single-Player... but passing on rumors and making facts up based on a bias isn't going to slow down or speed up Bioware in anyway.
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Old 10-29-2007, 06:12 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaykodroid
do you see there is no evidence? so we shouldnt state certain ideas about not a kotor mmo or not a kotor 3 game, we should respect others' demand. you can say "we want kotor 3" but it is not nice to say "hey dont do it MMORPG we dont want it" because we want it.
I never said don't do an MMO. Read my posts *again*. If they're seperate products, one normal RPG and then one spin off MMO, I'm not complaining. I just want the series to be finished nicely, and that wouldn't happen with an MMO.

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Old 10-29-2007, 07:23 PM   #80
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I've been over this subject many many times, but I'll say it again, I would want the series to end with an KotOR style RPG, but also think there should be an MMO as a separate game, I've also said this before but I'll say it again: The company that makes KotOR 3 would be stupid to make it an MMO, but a company that makes A KotOR MMO would be genius.

Basically what sums up my post: I want both!! lol

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