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Old 11-18-2007, 09:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Boba Fett 1991
If its related to the genetics, then one could manipulate them to imbue individual with the force. This would also defeat the idea of people being imbued with the force artifiacially.
Not necessarily. I was picturing Midichlorians as organelles with their own DNA, much like mitochondria or chloroplasts. They have DNA, but the vast majority of it is not in the nucleus of their host cells.

IRL, There are ways to cause mitochondria to replicate independently of the cell they are in to such a degree they cause their host cell to rupture. I'd think a similar thing might be doable with midichlorians in "imbuing" someone with the force. Not that star wars has ever published a scientific principles behind midichlorians or anthing, and it's just my best guess, but it fits both being genetic allowing for inherited diseases (or whole species that either are force sensitive or don't feel the force at all) as well as people like anakin, who have no ancestors as strong as he was in the force.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jvstice
Not necessarily. I was picturing Midichlorians as organelles with their own DNA, much like mitochondria or chloroplasts. They have DNA, but the vast majority of it is not in the nucleus of their host cells.

IRL, There are ways to cause mitochondria to replicate independently of the cell they are in to such a degree they cause their host cell to rupture. I'd think a similar thing might be doable with midichlorians in "imbuing" someone with the force. Not that star wars has ever published a scientific principles behind midichlorians or anthing, and it's just my best guess, but it fits both being genetic allowing for inherited diseases (or whole species that either are force sensitive or don't feel the force at all) as well as people like anakin, who have no ancestors as strong as he was in the force.

So you're saying that when the crystals used to "imbue" someone with the force, they some how produced midichlorians inside the cell structure of these people. Star Wars really needs to sort this out or something.
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Old 11-18-2007, 10:27 PM   #43
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A lot of things in Star Wars don't make sense. Sometimes you just have to accept the facts. KEY WORD- SOMETIMES...

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Old 11-18-2007, 10:31 PM   #44
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yes. Might even be the way it happens with Chloroplasts. Most annual plants do have more chloroplasts during summer than winter. I'm presuming that light energy is what causes them to breed. I wouldn't begin to guess whetehr it's the cold itself, or some kind of hormonal change that causes them to shed chloroplasts in the fall to turn all the bright pretty colors, but it does seem that to me if one form of energy could cause one kind of organelle to grow, a different form of energy could cause that same reaction in another, by artificial means.

It would also give credence to the Rakata's losing their force sensitivity due to a plague, and the Yhuzon Vong losing theirs due to something else.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:18 PM   #45
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Well, if that is the case then having a blood/organ transplant from a force sensative creature may turn someone force sensative... maybe even eating them alive? Hmmm... those delicious witches...

While we do not see alot of detailed force control in the released trailer... the dude seems to be one of thos e"over 9000" guys. But the lack of control is kinda annoying I guess...
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:27 AM   #46
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The lack of control in some aspects reflects the lack of control that Anakin had.

In going back to the original topic, I believe that Revan would be stronger considering he had the confidence to take the risk of going by himself to confront an entire Sith empire following his victory over Malak.
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Darth Moeller
Hmm, that would be a good comparison. I think in the end Revan would win. He has much more experience with the Force and was a Sith Lord after all.
yeah, Revan was a Sith Lord but Secret Apprentice isn't. Revan might of been able to move a ship like a Star Destoryer but we might not of known. until Bioware makes its KotOR II (KotOR II: Sith Lords wasn't made by Bioware like the first one was) we will know or not

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Old 12-01-2007, 04:55 AM   #48
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If you put Revan into The Force Unleashed's game engine he would have the power to bring the Death Star down. Revan would own the Secret Apprentice so badly it wouldnt even be funny. The Secret Apprentice would be like a Gizka to Revan.


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Old 12-01-2007, 09:11 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Christos K
If you put Revan into The Force Unleashed's game engine he would have the power to bring the Death Star down. Revan would own the Secret Apprentice so badly it wouldnt even be funny. The Secret Apprentice would be like a Gizka to Revan.
You mean small, wiggly, but keeps coming back no matter how many times you chop it in half?

Lets hope that its not a emo Gizka with a razorblade, or everyone is screwed.
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:41 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
You mean small, wiggly, but keeps coming back no matter how many times you chop it in half?
Are you saying that a gizka can reproduce by itself... nasty nasty thought. If that is true then you would have to poison The Secret Apprentice in order to kill him. But if it takes two gizka to make another, then the secret apprentice is in trouble...

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Old 12-01-2007, 03:59 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev7
Are you saying that a gizka can reproduce by itself... nasty nasty thought. If that is true then you would have to poison The Secret Apprentice in order to kill him. But if it takes two gizka to make another, then the secret apprentice is in trouble...
Nah, it would just take a few seconds before Revan pet and play peek-a-boo with him.


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Old 12-19-2007, 10:24 AM   #52
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Revan will win because his the true Sith lord. Remember Revan whas strong in the force, he whanet to learn all he can about the force, plus revan whas the moust promesing studen of jedy order, he whas a briliant military leader, and remember that he lerarned all he can about the force from Kreia after all shes teached all the greatest sith lords. Trust me he has no chance beating Revan!!!


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Old 12-19-2007, 01:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Rev7 wrote:
Are you saying that a gizka can reproduce by itself... nasty nasty thought. If that is true then you would have to poison The Secret Apprentice in order to kill him. But if it takes two gizka to make another, then the secret apprentice is in trouble...
That's where Juno Eclipse comes in

Quote:
Light_Jigi wrote:
Revan will win because his the true Sith lord. Remember Revan whas strong in the force, he whanet to learn all he can about the force, plus revan whas the moust promesing studen of jedy order, he whas a briliant military leader, and remember that he lerarned all he can about the force from Kreia after all shes teached all the greatest sith lords. Trust me he has no chance beating Revan!!!
Sorry to ruin the party...but we can't take gameplay elements for fact. The only cold hard facts we know is that Revan is canonically Male, fell to the dark side once, turned to the light and bashed Malak. We have no proof whatso-ever of what Kreia learned him, or the extend of him being 'primising' student.

All I mean to say is; We know he was a powerfull Jedi. We know he was a good military leader (winning a war) and we know he was a very good saber duellist. Too me, he's a smart, charismatic and powerfull Jedi. Those three skills together make him a very strong opponent for everyone to face.

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Old 12-25-2007, 04:36 PM   #54
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Revan more knowledge
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:09 PM   #55
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Revan has more combat experience, leadership skills, and he/she was a Sith Lord. The Secret Apprentice is just Vader's pawn. Maybe in time the apprentice will get to be as strong as Revan (assuming that he doesn't die in the game), but for now Revan is stronger in my opinion.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:28 PM   #56
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The problem is that the use of the force is a relative thing. Luke could have, without a lot of training, lifted his x-wing out of the swamp on Dagobah if only he was not a sniveling little brat. He had no confidence and did not believe it could be done.

Yoda, on the other hand, knew it could be done and splish-splash, the ship was up and out. Luke was strong in the force, the problem was that he was a useless putz.

The thing to remember is this, size matters not. Any jedi can accomplish any task, they just have to have the focus, training, discipline, and believe that they can do it. The force is a jedi's ally, and if they know it, a powerful ally it is.

So really, who is more powerful? Neither. Revan has training to perform tasks with precision and/or strength. He has discipline and focus, and experience. Can Revan pull a star destroyer out of the sky? Probably. Would he? Not likely. He would find a different way to do it. The apprentice, however, has been educated differently. He has learned to use brute force and ignorance for every situation, and so smashes and crushes with every use of the force.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by LordSerion
I belive Revan is the stronger. He knew both sides of the Force thorougly, laid down the basics of the Rule of Two, recorded the ritual of the Thought Bomb,
No, the thought bomb and the Rule of Two was Darth Bane. The thought bomb was on Ruusan. It was used to wipe out the jedi, and to a greater extent, the sith there so Darth Bane could cleanse the stupid sith from the galaxy. He then set up the Rule of Two so the sith could actualy survive in the galaxy to eventualy snuff out the jedi.
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:30 PM   #58
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He set up the Rule of Two, yes, but he got the idea from Revan through the holocron.
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:16 AM   #59
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better see this
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Old 01-20-2008, 06:01 PM   #60
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Dude the apprentice is stronger than we think, Revan was good and well rounded but this guy has got POWER!!!!





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Old 01-21-2008, 08:26 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Padwon_link
Dude the apprentice is stronger than we think, Revan was good and well rounded but this guy has got POWER!!!!
Know that it's not all about pure power. Without the smarts, you're not that good. Anyway, I'm of the opinion you need to take into consideration that the power of the Force that will be displayed in the game was a decision made because it would improve the gameplay, and not to represent the real power of the Secret Apprentice. If I would judge him based on what we've seen on trailers and such when it comes to Force Powers, he could take on both Vader and the Emperor. Luke never displayed such power and neither did the great Masters Kenobi and Yoda. When I'll be playing this game and shooting lightning out of my hands with the Secret Apprentice, I'll be thinking: "He normally would have only half of the power he now displays".
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:10 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sam Witwer
...Darth Vader discovers someone who is extremely strong in the Force, someone whose raw potential rivals the Emperor, rivals Yoda….This guy’s a sort of photo negative of Luke Skywalker.
Oh man, that's IMHO just ...
Typical EU :-/
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Old 01-21-2008, 01:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miltiades
Know that it's not all about pure power. Without the smarts, you're not that good. Anyway, I'm of the opinion you need to take into consideration that the power of the Force that will be displayed in the game was a decision made because it would improve the gameplay, and not to represent the real power of the Secret Apprentice. If I would judge him based on what we've seen on trailers and such when it comes to Force Powers, he could take on both Vader and the Emperor. Luke never displayed such power and neither did the great Masters Kenobi and Yoda. When I'll be playing this game and shooting lightning out of my hands with the Secret Apprentice, I'll be thinking: "He normally would have only half of the power he now displays".
I completely agree, also until GL or Leland Chee comment on his position in the Force hierarchy, I consider anything too obscure or unbelievable POV or "for the sake of Gameplay".
I don't mention G-canon and C-canon because I saw a Video in which GL and Haden Blacken both spoke of this being the next official installment of the Saga, so what level of canon would it be?

(I too can speculate )


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Old 01-22-2008, 12:11 AM   #64
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Isn't it kind of like when the prequel trilogy came out? Everything looked shiny and new and the Jedi and Sith [at least looked like they] could fight better than anyone in the Original Trilogy. And now this comes along (being made after the Prequel Trilogy), and looks new and shiny with even more powerful fighting moves. I think you kind of have to ignore this kind of thing when looking at Canon.


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Old 01-22-2008, 12:34 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentine
Isn't it kind of like when the prequel trilogy came out? Everything looked shiny and new and the Jedi and Sith [at least looked like they] could fight better than anyone in the Original Trilogy. And now this comes along (being made after the Prequel Trilogy), and looks new and shiny with even more powerful fighting moves. I think you kind of have to ignore this kind of thing when looking at Canon.
But I think they were meant to be better fighters than Luke and Vader in the OT. Vader was a crippled old man and Luke had no formal training, while the Jedi we see in the PT are traditional Jedi who spend their lives training and fighting. I certainly hope they're better fighters.


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Old 01-22-2008, 05:35 AM   #66
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Plus, there are a few in-universe explainations for the 'sucky' fights of the original trilogy.

Par example, we got introduced to Lightsaber form 5 in Episode 3. Anakin's raw and powerfull mastery. It looked a hell lot like Luke and Vader's style from the movies.

And the expanded universe claimed Luke only beated Vader because he mirrored the bashy style, not because of his own power (since he didn't have any, like people here stated). Also, in the Jedi Knight games, we were given the 'Strong' style which resembled the 'sucky' looking style as well.

All and all, it makes perfect sense to me

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Old 01-22-2008, 06:22 PM   #67
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Now, honestly, alls I've got to say to all this is . . . Mr. Apprentice over here looks like he can pretty much annihilate Mr. Revan's face, along with that silly mask he's wearing. I can't seem to place exactly what style he's trying to bring back. Haha.

Nah, I think they both rock. User's of the force. I don't think it really matters or goes beyond that.
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Old 01-22-2008, 07:33 PM   #68
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The one question that's been bugging my mind is this. With someone with so much power as the apprentice, wouldn't even a dumb humanoid(like him, from what has been infered so far) consider taking the place of an apparently weaker one like Darth Vader? If not, that would point to the fact that Vader is in fact many times stronger that the apprentice only he doesn't use the force in such epic proportions or as often.

By that same reasoning, Revan used more power than Vader, but could be weaker (although unlikely) or vice-versa. What was said about the force being relative is, in my opinion, a valid thought; perhaps this apprentice only knows the use of power but lacks the rest of the spectral view of the force, making him considerably weaker than other Jedi and Sith.
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:04 PM   #69
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The one question that's been bugging my mind is this. With someone with so much power as the apprentice, wouldn't even a dumb humanoid(like him, from what has been infered so far) consider taking the place of an apparently weaker one like Darth Vader? If not, that would point to the fact that Vader is in fact many times stronger that the apprentice only he doesn't use the force in such epic proportions or as often.
I could have sworn that i read that Vader might placed some type of gauntlet on the apprentice to control him or limit his power output. Not sure though.
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Miltiades
Know that it's not all about pure power. Without the smarts, you're not that good. Anyway, I'm of the opinion you need to take into consideration that the power of the Force that will be displayed in the game was a decision made because it would improve the gameplay, and not to represent the real power of the Secret Apprentice. If I would judge him based on what we've seen on trailers and such when it comes to Force Powers, he could take on both Vader and the Emperor. Luke never displayed such power and neither did the great Masters Kenobi and Yoda. When I'll be playing this game and shooting lightning out of my hands with the Secret Apprentice, I'll be thinking: "He normally would have only half of the power he now displays".
I totally agree with that!

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Old 01-22-2008, 08:52 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Miltiades
Know that it's not all about pure power. Without the smarts, you're not that good. Anyway, I'm of the opinion you need to take into consideration that the power of the Force that will be displayed in the game was a decision made because it would improve the gameplay, and not to represent the real power of the Secret Apprentice. If I would judge him based on what we've seen on trailers and such when it comes to Force Powers, he could take on both Vader and the Emperor. Luke never displayed such power and neither did the great Masters Kenobi and Yoda. When I'll be playing this game and shooting lightning out of my hands with the Secret Apprentice, I'll be thinking: "He normally would have only half of the power he now displays".
If we are ever to judge the secret apprentice to other characters in terms of power than I believe the most accurate way will be the force unleashed book.
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:36 AM   #72
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Revan's powere wasn't just raw force potential. Revan was a master tactition. He was also charismatic enough to lead persuade an army of jedi to disobey the Order and later turn to the dark side. If it came down to the Aprentice and Revan there would probally not even be a fight, Revan would convince the Aprentice to join him.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:11 AM   #73
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^ See, I believe that Revan wanted to "reform" the Republic as well as the Jedi, I think they learned strength through the Mandalorian Worlds and decided that the current Jedi Order was too weak to stand against the true threat behind the Mandalorian Wars, thats why he captured Jedi instead of killing them, the Secret Apprentice on the other hand is like an assassin (Kinda like Mara Jade, but more powerful)

In a battle between the two it would be a close watch, but I believe Revan would prevail


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Old 01-28-2008, 10:02 AM   #74
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Maybe he IS Mara Jade. Its the forgotten real past of mara, before she got the advanced sex change...
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:31 AM   #75
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Three things, #1 I believe it's actually cannon that Darth Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord ever, followed by Vader. IMO that if Lucas were to remake Eps IV-VI Vader wouldn't seem as lame. People want to compare Vader in the original trilogy to Anakin in the eps 3, and you can't. Evan Obi Wan would seems lame in eps IV when you compare it to his fight with Anakin. And you can't say he was the old man in eps IV cause Dooku owned Obi Wan in eps 2 & 3.

#2 you also can't compare the apprentice and Revan based on what they can do in video games that are 5+ years apart. Seriously the newer character will look better due to advances in technology.

#3 IMO midichlorians (sp?) are probably messured in parts per million or something like that, not total amount, cause if that's the case how can Yoda be more powerful than any other Jedi?
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:03 PM   #76
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If KOTOR had had the game engine that Force Unleashed will we would've seen what Revan could really do. But unfortunately no. So many untapped possibilities.........


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Old 02-07-2008, 05:11 PM   #77
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Also I believe it was in the most recent webdoc, or somewhere, they said that all the force-wielders you encounter in the game will have similar over-the-top force powers as the Apprentice. When you look at it that way he's nowhere near Revan.


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Old 02-07-2008, 06:42 PM   #78
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I can see what your point is, but regardless of what the player can do in the game it has been said that the Apprentice represents a "Dark Side Version" of Luke Skywalker let alone that Vader held this guy in such a high esteem so that he seeks to overthrow the Emperor using his help.
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:46 AM   #79
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Quote:
Darth Moeller wrote:
Also I believe it was in the most recent webdoc, or somewhere, they said that all the force-wielders you encounter in the game will have similar over-the-top force powers as the Apprentice. When you look at it that way he's nowhere near Revan.
Kudo's +1

It's a gameplay choice to make this all over the top. Just like it was a 'gameplay' or 'coolness' thing to make Anakin destroy the operating room with a shout. You need to look through those things.

For example: The movies make Grievous an immensely powerfull warrior who uses 4 lightsabers. He has mastered every single Lightsaber form and can do acrobatics no other Jedi/Sith can do. Then why did Obi-Wan beat him?

Same example: How could 24 year old Luke Skywalker, who had 3 years of Jedi training, beat a Sith Lord who has been peaking in power for...those same 24 years?

Just start from the (recent) movies and continue from there. Not every canon material is essentially 'canon' but rather artistic license.

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Old 02-10-2008, 12:02 AM   #80
Serpentine Cougar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
The movies make Grievous an immensely powerfull warrior who uses 4 lightsabers. He has mastered every single Lightsaber form and can do acrobatics no other Jedi/Sith can do. Then why did Obi-Wan beat him?

Same example: How could 24 year old Luke Skywalker, who had 3 years of Jedi training, beat a Sith Lord who has been peaking in power for...those same 24 years?
Luck might have some part to play in all this....


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