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Old 11-25-2007, 12:35 PM   #41
MaStErRevan55
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Revan is my favorite star wars character. You never knew if he was light side or dark side. Kreia said herself that Revan became dark lord to prevent another evil. He was a genius on the battle feild, he was probably way above your average jedi. he is the best.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:12 AM   #42
Sephira
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According to the new essential chronology revan is a lightsider
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:54 PM   #43
PoiuyWired
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Well, with all the things he pulled off, it seems like he is almost Chuck Norris Powerful... Almost.
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Old 12-05-2007, 02:20 AM   #44
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Powa?

Now, a long time ago, in a distant galaxy far, far away...I attempted to prove Revan was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The outcome you ask?
The forum was closed by the moderator
What I learened from that event was this.
You can't compare Movie Class Characters to Expanded Universe Class Characters.
There isn't any way to win. The fight can continue for ages.
Unless the big GL comes out and says "Revan was the strongest Sith Lord ever." then you could basically battle back and forth till the end of time without any answer.
Its my personal belief that the EU Jedi/Sith get more powerful as you travel back in time. The ancient teachings are less ancient as you travel backwards. The "Ture" Sith are supose to be even more powerful than any current version of Sith that we've seen, to support my point.
So I would think Revan would be a considerably powerful individual to have been THE Dark Lord of The Sith in the ancient times of so much power struggle and strife. Not to mention that he was complimented multiple times on how powerful he was by manny very powerful individuals you meet throughout the game. IMHO I would think hes a little more than only "Above Average." But actually quite powerful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Well, with all the things he pulled off, it seems like he is almost Chuck Norris Powerful... Almost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8 Lol.


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Your wish is granted...
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Last edited by JediMasterJambi; 12-05-2007 at 02:27 AM. Reason: Link didn't work.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:06 AM   #45
Sephira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Now, a long time ago, in a distant galaxy far, far away...I attempted to prove Revan was the most powerful Sith Lord ever. The outcome you ask?
The forum was closed by the moderator
What I learened from that event was this.
You can't compare Movie Class Characters to Expanded Universe Class Characters.
There isn't any way to win. The fight can continue for ages.
Unless the big GL comes out and says "Revan was the strongest Sith Lord ever." then you could basically battle back and forth till the end of time without any answer.
Its my personal belief that the EU Jedi/Sith get more powerful as you travel back in time. The ancient teachings are less ancient as you travel backwards. The "Ture" Sith are supose to be even more powerful than any current version of Sith that we've seen, to support my point.
So I would think Revan would be a considerably powerful individual to have been THE Dark Lord of The Sith in the ancient times of so much power struggle and strife. Not to mention that he was complimented multiple times on how powerful he was by manny very powerful individuals you meet throughout the game. IMHO I would think hes a little more than only "Above Average." But actually quite powerful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8 Lol.
Firstly we don't need GL to state weather whos the most powerful or not, it's obvious whos the most powerful by the feats he has accomplished and in this case, its emperor palpatine. Hell and the ROTS novel stated yoda > any dark sider before sidious, meaning that he is more powerful than revan and already lucas said to compete with palpatine you have to be as powerful as yoda or have vaapad and shatterpoint as mace does.

And before you say the old jedi and sith > the new ones because you think so, your wrong clearly as lucas refers the PT jedi "Prime of the jedi".

Oh and as for the ancient sith being more powerful? You got to be kidding, many of their feats had to be aided by technology.

Naga sadow, the most infamous ancient sith did nothing with the force other than throw a brick at his opponent.

Marka ragnos, dubbed the most powerful ancient sith lord had to use a scepter so he could drain force energy from only certain areas. Emperor palpatine on the other hand as of return of the jedi was able to replicate this technique without the use of tools and he was able to do it to drain the entire planet of byss.

It was even said that palpatines mere presence in the force caused an unbalance due to his incredible power.

Now during the construction of the lusankya on coruscant, people would have obviously seen the ship getting built and palpatine wanted this a secret, guess what he did? He was stated to mind trick the inhabitants of coruscant making them forget what they saw permanently, and the inhabitants of coruscants are in the billions .

And when i post canon statements backed by sources, its approved by lucas arts thus receiving the canon status, GL doesn't have to give a statement UNLESS it contradicts the movies, as for dark empire. the canon status still remains because
1) Lucas actually admired the book
2) Its data has been inputed in the new essential chronology
3) Its data has been inputed in the ultimate visual guide
4) Leland chee, keeper of the holocrons of star wars .com still stated it was canon.

Now, the quotes as follows.

Page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.

Empire's End, one of the ancient Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.


"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.
-- Death Star, page 76.

Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84


Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72

^ All these are approved by lucasarts and have received the canon status meaning its fact .

And for your information, according to the essential guide of the force . Palpatine was narrating the events of the jedi civil war and the events on malachor meaning he was aware of revans existence, and also according to various sources, he has countless ancient sith holocrons which gave him access the incredibly powerful techniues, such as destroying a force bond between his victims and the force which kills them instantly, this is the same identical technique nihilus has.

He is also the gatekeeper of the telos holocron which has been passed down from these people listed
* Darth Sidious
* Ajunta Pall
* Qordis
* Seviss Vaa
* Kla
* Darth Bane
* Naga Sadow
* Komok-Da
* Count Dooku

Last edited by Sephira; 12-08-2007 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:41 AM   #46
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Only problem... Palpy is the "Greatest KNOWN Sith ever lived...UP TIL HIS TIME"

Put it simply, there can be stronger sith in the future, and there can be "previously unknown sith" Its like calling Luke "Last of the Jedi" while there are actually aproximately 876.53 of them hiding somewhere under a carpet or something.

So yeah Sharad Hett maybe more powerful than him, Rebel Skywalker boy may be stronger, and the "unknown parts of Revan" is just unknown.

Plus, all holocrons Palpy have in his hands record information up to its last recording, and Revan's ultimate fate is unknown still.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:30 AM   #47
Sephira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Only problem... Palpy is the "Greatest KNOWN Sith ever lived...UP TIL HIS TIME"
And which sith is greater than palpatine after he died? Right, NONE

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Put it simply, there can be stronger sith in the future, and there can be "previously unknown sith" Its like calling Luke "Last of the Jedi" while there are actually aproximately 876.53 of them hiding somewhere under a carpet or something.
Right and darth bane called krayt a weakling and a pretender sith, sorry, canon states palpatine > all
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
So yeah Sharad Hett maybe more powerful than him, Rebel Skywalker boy may be stronger, and the "unknown parts of Revan" is just unknown.
May be more powerful? You got to be kidding, Obi wan whom would easily get crushed by the emperor destroyed darth krayt on tatooine with little effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Plus, all holocrons Palpy have in his hands record information up to its last recording, and Revan's ultimate fate is unknown still.
And palpatine has revans knowledge and that of the entire galaxy from 25 000 bby, Face it, its canon, its fact. Palpatine > revan. Even lucas says so.

If you actually read what i just posted you wouldn't have even came out with an absurd claim which has nothing to back you up.
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Old 12-08-2007, 08:07 AM   #48
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Hey there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
And before you say the old jedi and sith > the new ones because you think so, your wrong clearly as lucas refers the PT jedi "Prime of the jedi".
Prime of The Jedihttp://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html
That is the video title from a clip portarying stunts off of The Phantom Menace, in which Lucas was featured. If your going to call The Phantom Menace The Prime of The Jedi, then you need to stick with the Movie's, which Revan wasn't portrayed in. By the way...
"While historians believe that this would prove to be the height of the Jedi Order, this era was also witness to its decline. After two millennia of relative peace, the Jedi Order grew complacent in its influence and stagnant as a result of its many rules and regulations"
It was said in the movies multiple times that the Jedi of that age were "arrogant, even the wiser more expereniced one." Sure, you can call that age PT. But the Jedi that Palpa overthrew were the weakest they had ever been at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Oh and as for the ancient sith being more powerful? You got to be kidding, many of their feats had to be aided by technology.
Are you saying being technologically advanced dosen't make one powerful?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Marka ragnos, dubbed the most powerful ancient sith lord had to use a scepter so he could drain force energy from only certain areas. Emperor palpatine on the other hand as of return of the jedi was able to replicate this technique without the use of tools and he was able to do it to drain the entire planet of byss.
Your simplistic and overly bias views on all other Sith Lord except Palpa proves how mind-set you are. It's apprent nothing I tell you will sway your loyalty to your Sith Lord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
And when i post canon statements backed by sources, its approved by lucas arts thus receiving the canon status, GL doesn't have to give a statement UNLESS it contradicts the movies, as for dark empire. the canon status still remains because
1) Lucas actually admired the book
2) Its data has been inputed in the new essential chronology
3) Its data has been inputed in the ultimate visual guide
4) Leland chee, keeper of the holocrons of star wars .com still stated it was canon.
What are you saying here? That KotOR isn't a Canon source? Dark Empire is not above KoTor in Canon. Not even close. And i'd like to point out that Dark Empire contradicts the movies. KoToR, however, does not. So I could discredit DE canon by saying "It brings Palpatine back to life, thus denying Anakin the fulfillment of his prophecy(To bring balance to the force.), which the movies are heavily based upon." NEC, UCG, and Leland have nothing on the movies. The movies are the Golden Rule Makers. Unless Lucas said Dark Empire is G-Canon, not that he just "admired" it, then your DE quotes aren't going to presaude me.

"In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, which takes place about 4,000 years before the Battle of Naboo, the Jedi Exile could learn Form VII Juyo from Master Kavar if the Exile was a Guardian, Weapon Master, or Marauder. This shows that a Form VII was created millennia before Mace Windu created Vaapad. In Knights of the Old Republic II, Juyo is portrayed as a powerful but precarious form that sacrifices defense against both weapons and the Force in return for greater dexterity and strength of attack. Every blow from a master of Form VII Juyo threatened to be a life-ending critical strike. Alternatively, Mace Windu's Form VII appears to protect the user from these attacks while still being a highly effective offensive form. This is illustrated clearly during the duel between Mace Windu and Supreme Chancellor Palpatine."
Now, its apprent that Vaapad is powerful. Juyo, though it lacks Vaapad's defense, has a higher chance of killing an enemy however.
Kavar knew Juyo. And I would think he wasn't the only one. It's a very safe bet that Revan would also know this form.
I would think that if Revan had Juyo on his side, Palpatine wouldn't be as invincible as you say.

I'm just making my point here. Revan could easily be as strong as Palpatine. If not stronger.
Unfortunatley, you seem to just discard any other Sith Lord except for Palpatine, so I don't except your response to be reasonable. I would ask that you try to consider that Palpatine ISN'T the strongest, however.
Peace.


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Your wish is granted...
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:55 AM   #49
Sephira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Prime of The Jedihttp://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html
That is the video title from a clip portarying stunts off of The Phantom Menace, in which Lucas was featured. If your going to call The Phantom Menace The Prime of The Jedi, then you need to stick with the Movie's, which Revan wasn't portrayed in. By the way...
"While historians believe that this would prove to be the height of the Jedi Order, this era was also witness to its decline. After two millennia of relative peace, the Jedi Order grew complacent in its influence and stagnant as a result of its many rules and regulations"
It was said in the movies multiple times that the Jedi of that age were "arrogant, even the wiser more expereniced one." Sure, you can call that age PT. But the Jedi that Palpa overthrew were the weakest they had ever been at.
Lol? Do you know G-canon > all? That G-canon = what george lucas said? If you can't even know the fact that what george lucas says is supreme g-canon. Nobody is going to take you seriously at all which has been the case.


Theres also the ROTS commentary where it was stated PT jedi > Kotor jedi

Oh and the jedis the palpatine annihilated were described to be the entire orders(From the first jedi to the current era) greatest swordsman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Are you saying being technologically advanced dosen't make one powerful?
No it does not, Oh wait if it does it means palpatine is even more powerful seeing he replicated a feat which the great marka ragnos needed technology to do, draining force energy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Your simplistic and overly bias views on all other Sith Lord except Palpa proves how mind-set you are. It's apprent nothing I tell you will sway your loyalty to your Sith Lord.
Im not bias, im stating the facts, you on the other hand admitted your a revan fanboy and cannot accept the fact that it has been official that sidious > revan.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
What are you saying here? That KotOR isn't a Canon source?
Did i say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Dark Empire is not above KoTor in Canon. Not even close.
Oh but it has the same level of canon, the new essential chronology states this. Leland chee, the one who establish canon states this in his blog on star wars.com. The ultimate visual guide states its canon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
And i'd like to point out that Dark Empire contradicts the movies.
For your information, dark empire came out before the concept of the chosen one seeing it came out of 1992. However its still canon, accept it and move on with life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
KoToR, however, does not. So I could discredit DE canon by saying "It brings Palpatine back to life, thus denying Anakin the fulfillment of his prophecy(To bring balance to the force.),
You sir are not a lucasarts employee, you DO NOT define canon nor do you discredit, because recent books like the new essential chronology dictated the events of dark empire and has received canon status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
which the movies are heavily based upon." NEC, UCG, and Leland have nothing on the movies. The movies are the Golden Rule Makers. Unless Lucas said Dark Empire is G-Canon, not that he just "admired" it, then your DE quotes aren't going to presaude me.
Firstly leland chee has the authority to remove canon status and at the same time give it, and secondly DE is C-canon, Not g-canon. Even if lucas didn't give it G-canon simply because it wasnt a movie, it still classified as c-canon and thus it means palpatine > your precious revan. Hell i can even name you feats that make revan look weak that palpatine has demonstrated.

Oh wait got nothing on the movies? Then i guess kotor too got nothing on the movies seeing that it is classified in the same category as the NEC under C-canon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
"In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, which takes place about 4,000 years before the Battle of Naboo, the Jedi Exile could learn Form VII Juyo from Master Kavar if the Exile was a Guardian, Weapon Master, or Marauder. This shows that a Form VII was created millennia before Mace Windu created Vaapad. In Knights of the Old Republic II, Juyo is portrayed as a powerful but precarious form that sacrifices defense against both weapons and the Force in return for greater dexterity and strength of attack. Every blow from a master of Form VII Juyo threatened to be a life-ending critical strike. Alternatively, Mace Windu's Form VII appears to protect the user from these attacks while still being a highly effective offensive form. This is illustrated clearly during the duel between Mace Windu and Supreme Chancellor Palpatine."
You got it from wookiepedia, so whats your point? That it means kotor jedi > Mace windu because they use the same form?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Now, its apprent that Vaapad is powerful. Juyo, though it lacks Vaapad's defense, has a higher chance of killing an enemy however.
So? That wouldn't do any good against a stronger dueler. Oh and darth maul uses juyo according to star wars insider and according to various sources, palpatine > maul.

If your trying to say "Because kavar knows juyo, it means he is more powerful than mace windu". Then your simply wrong, lets take a look at djem so and makashi, If the lightsaber form you use is the only factor then i don't see why a weakling such as AOTC anakin have no problems taking dooku down, simply because of his lightsaber form as you just implied. However as to why he tooled dooku in ROTS, its because he got more skills than before, he succefully mastered the form to its highest degree.

My point? Skill is what it takes to defeat your opponent, regardless of what form as it is only a mere advantage. Evident by count dooku defeatng mace windu in the clone wars when supposidly vaapad/juyo > makashi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Kavar knew Juyo. And I would think he wasn't the only one. It's a very safe bet that Revan would also know this form.
Very safe to bet? Can you prove it? Can you prove kavar taught him? Hell and according to the kotor 2 flashback in the sith tomb, revan was shown to be a jar kai practitionar where people like count dooku have an easy time against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
I would think that if Revan had Juyo on his side, Palpatine wouldn't be as invincible as you say.
Oh and palpatine is a frequent user of juyo friend, seeing that it was stated by your precious wookiepedia. And palpatine was described to be moving so fast that the eye couldn't see him.

Oh and have you heard of the fallanasi technique which sidious has mastered? It hides your force bond which hides your force sensitivity. Your precious revan wouldn't be able to detect him or sense him through the force. So sidious is virtually invisible to revan via the force.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
I'm just making my point here. Revan could easily be as strong as Palpatine. If not stronger.
Nothing indicates he is even close given the feats palpatine has done through the force.
-Destroying an entire star fleet with a force storm technique being described to be the most powerful technique
-His force storm was stated to be able to rip out and destroy a planets surface according to the essential guide to the force
-He effortlessly killed 100 storm troopers with one blast on lightning while diverting the blast of lightning from killing his own men.
-The same lightning which reduced 3 force users powerful enough to ressurect maul from the dead to charred ashes.
-Being able to mind trick the entire planet of coruscant making them forgot they saw the lusankya.

Oh and incase you didn't see what i typed or the fact that you ignored them:

page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

Palpatine has risen from the dead. [/b]The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.[/b]

Empire's End, one of the ancient Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.

-- Death Star, page 76.(This recently came out)
"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.


-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84
Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Unfortunatley, you seem to just discard any other Sith Lord except for Palpatine, so I don't except your response to be reasonable. I would ask that you try to consider that Palpatine ISN'T the strongest, however.
Peace.
Fortunately, id argue that revan is in the top 5 and exar kun possibly being number two.

But according to fact . Palpatine IS the number 1. YOUR the one being unreasonble. And i would consider asking you to actually read the comments posted and canon facts that palpatine > revan.
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Old 12-08-2007, 03:04 PM   #50
adamqd
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they need to do an updated version of DE art wise, it's looks so dated and crap, but as you say Sephira it shows Palp as a real Badass


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Old 12-08-2007, 05:13 PM   #51
JediMasterJambi
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Facts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Lol? Do you know G-canon > all? That G-canon = what george lucas said? If you can't even know the fact that what george lucas says is supreme g-canon. Nobody is going to take you seriously at all which has been the case.
You seem a little hot under the collar my friend. The movies are the prime of the Jedi. They're all G-Canon. Anything compared to it can be de-cannonized.
-Thats why I said you can't compare Movie Characters to EU characters.
By your logic, I can basically say...
An Ewok is more powerful than Revan, because hes G-canon, and Revan is C-Canon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Im not bias, im stating the facts, you on the other hand admitted your a revan fanboy and cannot accept the fact that it has been official that sidious > revan.
Yes, i'm a Revan fanboy, but I can see logic. You on the otherhand don't seem to admit your a Palpatine fanboy, because you refuse to except logic. Your opinon isn't truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Oh but it has the same level of canon, the new essential chronology states this. Leland chee, the one who establish canon states this in his blog on star wars.com. The ultimate visual guide states its canon.
For your information, dark empire came out before the concept of the chosen one seeing it came out of 1992. However its still canon, accept it and move on with life.
You sir are not a lucasarts employee, you DO NOT define canon nor do you discredit, because recent books like the new essential chronology dictated the events of dark empire and has received canon status.
Firstly leland chee has the authority to remove canon status and at the same time give it, and secondly DE is C-canon, Not g-canon. Even if lucas didn't give it G-canon simply because it wasnt a movie, it still classified as c-canon and thus it means palpatine > your precious revan. Hell i can even name you feats that make revan look weak that palpatine has demonstrated..
1992 or not. The movies canonize The Chosen One. I never said I was a Lucasarts Employee, nor was I the first one in this thread to start bantering about Canon level. You were.
DE isn't G-Canon, its Canon conflicts the movies (Which are G-canon). Its not my opinon, its a fact. You just refuse to except it.
ESC?

That's an E-mail from Dan Wallace himself. Since you seem to like throwing your big names around. Dan states that his OPINON of Sidious was that he thinks hes the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Kinda makes it a bit less Canon than what you use it for.
"In the Dark Empire series, Palpatine tells Luke that the Battle of Endor was not his first death, and that he had started transferring his spirit into clone bodies years prior to that, when his original body had degenerated as a result of heavy use of the dark side. However, Lucasfilm official Leland Chee has recently stated that Palpatine was lying to Luke about having died previously, and that Palpatine's demise on the second Death Star was definitely the first time he died, although not the last.[74]

Chee also stated that, while Palpatine's clone bodies do degenerate as a result of the strong presence of dark side energy within them, his original body did not degenerate in the same way, and he only had to start switching bodies periodically as a result of having to use clone bodies following the destruction of his original body at Endor. "


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Oh wait got nothing on the movies? Then i guess kotor too got nothing on the movies seeing that it is classified in the same category as the NEC under C-canon.
I already said that KotOR dosen't CONTRADICT the movies. Dark Empire, however, does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
My point? Skill is what it takes to defeat your opponent, regardless of what form as it is only a mere advantage. Evident by count dooku defeatng mace windu in the clone wars when supposidly vaapad/juyo > makashi.
Very unture. Dooku ran both times when confronted by Mace. And skill isn't the only attribute that is needed to defeat an opponent. Intelligence, strength, endurance, speed, charisma, etc. The list continues. For you to base a fight on skill alone is quite silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Very safe to bet? Can you prove it? Can you prove kavar taught him? Hell and according to the kotor 2 flashback in the sith tomb, revan was shown to be a jar kai practitionar where people like count dooku have an easy time against.
I can prove that in no way. Just like you can't prove Revan is weaker than Sidious. Jar Kai huh?
"The dual saber style of Jar'Kai permits a Jedi to fight with two lightsabers, one in each hand, as seen in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones when Anakin Skywalker dueled Makashi-user Count Dooku."
Sure, mabye he used Jar Kai. But his perfered style is never stated anywhere bud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Oh and palpatine is a frequent user of juyo friend, seeing that it was stated by your precious wookiepedia. And palpatine was described to be moving so fast that the eye couldn't see him.
So Revan couldn't have the same abilities as Palpatine? Revan couldn't fight with him on equal ground using Juyo? Palpatine knew a form of Juyo which was 4000 years old. I would think manny critical points of such information could get lost over that much time.
"As for his powers, he was perhaps the closest stated in the current canon (Legacy of the Force) as the perfect practitioner of both Jedi/Sith powers, who wasn't truly influenced by the light or dark powers. If the hypothesis of his character to be a lesser evil so he can save the Republic from a bigger threat is true, he would be somewhere in between Jacen Solo and Anakin Skywalker steps of becoming the idealistic Sith user who was not influenced by greed or the one-sided judgment from the light side.

Besides having exceptional powers as a Force-user, as well as a master planner, he also proves to be a capable droid builder (similar to Anakin Skywalker), but programming it to be the ultimate assassin and droid translator instead of just a protocol droid. (The droid was required to be an assassin droid for gameplay purposes.)

In the book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Darth Bane finds a Sith holocron that was recorded by Darth Revan during his reign as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Through the teachings of wisdom and Sith philosophy imparted to him by Revan, Bane would reform the Sith Order into the Rule of Two (a master and an apprentice), a cult that would eventually culminate with Darth Sidious and Darth Vader, the rise of the Galactic Empire, and the near annihilation of the Jedi Order."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
But according to fact . Palpatine IS the number 1. YOUR the one being unreasonble. And i would consider asking you to actually read the comments posted and canon facts that palpatine > revan.
Thats your opinon, not fact. I would consider asking you to stop saying your opinon is a fact. DE is full of deceptive material.
I think of Darth Sidious as a manipulative Sith Lord. Hes not a combat type. Comparable to Kreia.


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Old 12-08-2007, 11:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
You seem a little hot under the collar my friend. The movies are the prime of the Jedi. They're all G-Canon. Anything compared to it can be de-cannonized.
Friend if you actually understood the term canon, G-canon > C-canon. Oh and how does comparing revan to the movie de-canonise him? Hell that has never happened friend. You don't even know what your talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
-Thats why I said you can't compare Movie Characters to EU characters.
By your logic, I can basically say...
An Ewok is more powerful than Revan, because hes G-canon, and Revan is C-Canon.
But theres nothing to indicate an ewok is more powerful than revan friend, if you actually used logic and used your brain, it is clear that revan is more powerful than an ewok because there is absolutely nothing to prove an ewok > Him. You aren't making sense because your resorting to blatant fanboyism, You have not even said why revan is more powerful. You have not even listed his feats to even try.

On the other hand, there is everything from BOTH g-canon and c-canon to prove sidious > your revan.

G-canon basically means the highest form of canon friend, G-canon is "George Lucas" canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely.

Oh and the revenge of the sith novel is G-canon according to lucas because it is connected to the movies, and the novel itself already stated that yoda is more powerful than any other sith lord whom have already existed. Palpatine > yoda. Palpatine > revan

Incase you don't know what C-canon which KOTOR and DE is, heres the quote

C-canon is "continuity" canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be; they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

There you go, thats canon. You CAN compare a movie character to an EU character.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Yes, i'm a Revan fanboy, but I can see logic. You on the otherhand don't seem to admit your a Palpatine fanboy, because you refuse to except logic. Your opinon isn't truth.
You can see logic? But the question is do you actually use logic? And how am i a palpatine fanboy when im stating the facts? When im taking up various sources to actually back me up? When you on the other hand have nothing to back your claims which would be essential?

I said palpatine is the strongest sith, yet i backed them up with quotes from official sources which are declared canon by lucasarts, what have you done so far?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
1992 or not. The movies canonize The Chosen One. I never said I was a Lucasarts Employee, nor was I the first one in this thread to start bantering about Canon level. You were.

Yet your trying to discredit canon sources which their canon status has not been renounced. Id love to see your sorry attempts in trying to discredit sources when you can't. You are just ignoring them. Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
DE isn't G-Canon, its Canon conflicts the movies (Which are G-canon). Its not my opinon, its a fact. You just refuse to except it.
LOL! You don't even know the term canon. Who ever said DE is G-canon? Comics and books and games fall under the C-canon category which are still canon. Not G-canon

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi

That's an E-mail from Dan Wallace himself. Since you seem to like throwing your big names around. Dan states that his OPINON of Sidious was that he thinks hes the most powerful Sith Lord ever. Kinda makes it a bit less Canon than what you use it for.
Its not any "less" canon because his statement in the new essential chronology has been reviewed by LFL and lucasarts and received the C-canon status. Sorry, it isn't less canon than you want it to be. Just as how Leland chees opinion of the exile being a lady has been made canon as it was stated in the same book and the ultimate visual guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
"In the Dark Empire series, Palpatine tells Luke that the Battle of Endor was not his first death, and that he had started transferring his spirit into clone bodies years prior to that, when his original body had degenerated as a result of heavy use of the dark side. However, Lucasfilm official Leland Chee has recently stated that Palpatine was lying to Luke about having died previously, and that Palpatine's demise on the second Death Star was definitely the first time he died, although not the last.[74]
Ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Chee also stated that, while Palpatine's clone bodies do degenerate as a result of the strong presence of dark side energy within them, his original body did not degenerate in the same way, and he only had to start switching bodies periodically as a result of having to use clone bodies following the destruction of his original body at Endor. "
Your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
I already said that KotOR dosen't CONTRADICT the movies. Dark Empire, however, does.
But its still C-canon, as kotor is. You on the otherhand can't accept the simple fact that its canon and that theres proof against your claims in the first place, so your trying to say dark empire isn't canon which it clearly is.

Because going by what you said. Legacy of the force book series shouldn't be canon, because jacen becomes darth caedus.

If you actually understood the prophecy of the chosen one, it basically means anakin destroying the sith. And we saw the sith die out in the movies, but nothing indicates or states the chosen one destroying the sith permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Very unture. Dooku ran both times when confronted by Mace. And skill isn't the only attribute that is needed to defeat an opponent. Intelligence, strength, endurance, speed, charisma, etc. The list continues. For you to base a fight on skill alone is quite silly.
Yet you tried to make it out as if your lightsaber form is the only factor in beating your opponent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
I can prove that in no way. Just like you can't prove Revan is weaker than Sidious. Jar Kai huh?
Oh but i can, simply by the feats i listed down.
When has revan ever mind trick millions of people?
When has revan ever been shown to use lightning which can kill his opponents?
When has revans lightning ever been shown to reduce people to ashes like palpatines lightning?
When has revan ever destroyed a surface of an entire planet?
When has revan ever destroyed an entire star fleet for technique?

The thing is, you can't prove anything.

And according to darth maul in TPM, sidious could move at speeds faster than the eye can see, that the slightests twitch by maul would get him killed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
"The dual saber style of Jar'Kai permits a Jedi to fight with two lightsabers, one in each hand, as seen in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones when Anakin Skywalker dueled Makashi-user Count Dooku."
Sure, mabye he used Jar Kai. But his perfered style is never stated anywhere bud.
So don't assume that he uses juyo when nothing indicates it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
So Revan couldn't have the same abilities as Palpatine? Revan couldn't fight with him on equal ground using Juyo? Palpatine knew a form of Juyo which was 4000 years old. I would think manny critical points of such information could get lost over that much time.
Prove revan has the same abilities as palpatine, seeing that it was stated the only force user who ever had the force storm technique was emperor palpatine and revan on the other hand never demonstrated any abilities similar to palpatine. really all iv seen revan do in the cut scenes is choke an officer and force lightning.
By the way, even if revan did have the juyo form, what indicates to you he is on the same level as palpatine? Seeing that palpatine tooled 3 jedi masters whom were described as the orders best jedi swordsman in the last 25 000 years.

Palpatine on the other hand has mastered every aspect of the force, he has mastered every single force technique and can use them to a degree to instantly slay his victims, just like how palpatine killed a jedi instantly in empire's end.

Oh and if many critical points were lost on lightsaber dueling, mace windu wouldn't have even mastered the juyo form and further more invent a new style which has been dubbed "The deadliest form against dark siders".

If your referring to the force, there is nothing to back you up. Infact seeing that technology is getting more advanced, so are force techniques.

Tell me jambi, what "knowledge" has been lost between the four thousands years? Because the events of malachor V and the star forge battle in the essential guide to the force was narrarated by emperor palpatine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
"As for his powers, he was perhaps the closest stated in the current canon (Legacy of the Force) as the perfect practitioner of both Jedi/Sith powers, who wasn't truly influenced by the light or dark powers. If the hypothesis of his character to be a lesser evil so he can save the Republic from a bigger threat is true, he would be somewhere in between Jacen Solo and Anakin Skywalker steps of becoming the idealistic Sith user who was not influenced by greed or the one-sided judgment from the light side.
If your so fond about using canon, you shouldn't even have mentioned legacy of the force in your last post because it too has a sith lord by the name of darth caedus. Hypocrite.


The Dark Empire Sourcebook states (p. 39) that "Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure". It goes on to list the following powers: Absorb/dissipate energy, accelerate healing, control pain, detoxify poison, enhance attribute, hibernation trance, rage, reduce injury, remain conscious, resist stun, short-term memory enhancement, combat sense, danger sense, instinctive astrogation, life detection, life sense, magnify senses, receptive telepathy, sense Force, sense path, injure/kill, telekinesis, farseeing (i.e., prescience and clairvoyance), lightsaber combat, projective telepathy, accelerate another's healing, control another's pain, feed on dark side, Force lightning, inflict pain, return another to consciousness, transfer Force, affect mind, control minds, create Force storms, Dopplegänger, drain life essence, enhanced coordination, telekinetic kill, transfer life, and dim another's senses.

Three notable powers subsequently introduced which he almost surely possessed include the forbidden Jedi arts of malacia and mortichro (ref. the Databank) and the Sith discipline mechu-duru (ref. "The Emperor's Pawns"); one notable exception is the creation of Sith zombies, which he has been specifically stated not to have known (as detailed in the Wizards of the Coast web site's entry on Korriban). Generally speaking, however, it is a reasonable assumption that the Galactic Emperor either possesses a given ability, or could easily learn it.

The most intriguing demonstrations of his power are the circumstances surrounding the burial of HIMS Lusankya on Imperial Centre (some speculate that he "clouded men's minds" à la Shadow) and the circumstances surrounding the arrival of General Skywalker on Byss (which involved the Emperor opening a wormhole in hyperspace and projecting a Force storm across possibly thousands of light years, and somehow physically depositing General Skywalker in the hold of a Lictor-class dungeon ship with the Force storm, suggesting that he is in fact capable of teleportation).


Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Besides having exceptional powers as a Force-user, as well as a master planner, he also proves to be a capable droid builder (similar to Anakin Skywalker), but programming it to be the ultimate assassin and droid translator instead of just a protocol droid. (The droid was required to be an assassin droid for gameplay purposes.)
Keyword, exceptional, not extraordinary like palpatine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
In the book Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, Darth Bane finds a Sith holocron that was recorded by Darth Revan during his reign as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Through the teachings of wisdom and Sith philosophy imparted to him by Revan, Bane would reform the Sith Order into the Rule of Two (a master and an apprentice), a cult that would eventually culminate with Darth Sidious and Darth Vader, the rise of the Galactic Empire, and the near annihilation of the Jedi Order."
Your point? Your just pasting random quotes which even you don't want to interpret or back your point. That does not prove revan > palpatine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterJambi
Thats your opinon, not fact. I would consider asking you to stop saying your opinon is a fact. DE is full of deceptive material.
I think of Darth Sidious as a manipulative Sith Lord. Hes not a combat type. Comparable to Kreia.
My opinion isn't fact, but the quotes i listed from you from various sources are fact.

Oh and palpatines not the combat sith lord? What makes you say that? Because he hasn't fought from AOTC to ROTS? Then if he is so weak as you say, how did he
-Destroy an entire starfleet with the force
-Cause an unbalance in the force
-Destroy a surface of the planet
-Drain the entire planet of byss
-Kill 100 storm troopers with lightning without effort
-Reduce 3 force users to ashes with one blast of lightning
-Been stated to be the most powerful sith lord ever by countless sources which you refuse to acknowledge because it is proof against your claims.

On and i'm going to list the quotes again, which are fact
page 109 from the Dark Empire sourcebook:

Palpatine has risen from the dead. [/b]The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned.[/b]

Empire's End, one of the ancient Sith spirits: He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave.

-- Death Star, page 76.(This recently came out)
"The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.


-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84
Yoda could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


-- The Complete Visual Dictionary, page 72
Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting."
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:24 AM   #53
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Statement on the new 6 degrees of Star Wars Canon

We, at WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia, wish to clear up the confusion of ‘Canon’ in Star Wars by instituting a new classification system on how to rank the different Star Wars and Star Wars EU materials. This will replace the Canon-a, b, c and g system (along with other letters and symbols), which was becoming just too confusing, resulting in many emails from forum administrators and moderators who were ‘having to deal with too damn many threads on arguments over Canon’.

1st degree Canon shall be The Movies. Radio adaptations, so long as they include voices from the Original Actors (and Actresses) shall also be 1st degree Canon. The Screenplays are also 1st degree Canon, but only if George Lucas put a ‘GL’ on every page. The official soundtracks are 1st degree Canon, because John Williams has included the use of both the bassoon and the triangle in his music, and quite possibly the krummhorn. Anything spoken by George Lucas is first degree Canon, including those more mundane statements like ‘I want to order a pizza’ and ‘I have to find the nearest restroom.’

2nd degree Canon shall include those radio adaptations that deviate from the script slightly but still maintain the ‘True Spirit’ of the movies. Those radio adaptations that include the voices of Harrison Ford or Liam Neeson shall automatically be changed to 1st degree Canon, because their voices are really sexy. Those adaptations that include excess amounts of Jar-Jar Binks or Ewok cuteness shall automatically be reduced to 6th degree Canon or less.

3rd degree Canon shall include any books that George Lucas decides shall be 3rd degree, which is pretty much everything else not in the 1st and 2nd degrees. It’s his world—if he wants to say a book is 1st degree or 6th degree, we shall bow to his greater wisdom. The exception are the Vong books, which shall be reduced to 6th degree or the 9th circle of Dante’s Inferno, whichever comes last. All Star Wars games are 3rd degree Canon. The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon. We hereby declare all permutations of Revan and Exile to be Canon, because trying to pick just one is really p!$$ing off the fans. The Star Wars Lego games would be 4th degree Canon because of the ‘cutesy factor’, except for the fact that my son really likes the games, so they stay at 3rd degree.

4th degree Canon includes any comic books. Graphic novels remain at 3rd degree because ‘graphic novel’ sounds more cool than ‘comic book.’ The exception is the Knights of the Old Republic comic book series, which is destined to become a Graphic Novel when bound together, and because they’ve drawn Zayne Carrick really cute. It’s at least 3rd degree, and we might even make that series 2nd degree if sales continue to be good.

5th degree Canon includes all fan-fiction, unless they are “Really Good,” which, by our definition, is anything with over 1,000 views on LucasForums or over 15 thumbs-ups on kotorfanmedia. If they’re “Really Good”, then they can, at the option of the administrators, moderators, machievelli, or the author, move to 4th degree. The exception is if the spam-per-view ratio approaches 1:82, in which case the fanfic shall be declared ‘spammy’ and the fic drops to 6th degree. Action figures are 5th degree Canon, unless they involve Yoda, Han Solo, or Luke Skywalker. These are 1st degree Canon because I like them and because Frank Oz rules.

6th degree Canon includes any speculative posts on any forums. It also includes any non-speculative posts, comments, jokes, pictures, and other written, visual, or aural media. Anything else not already specified shall be 6th degree Canon, unless the author finds something she really likes, in which case the Degree of Canon may be altered accordingly. Forum posts that are written by administrators or moderators shall be whatever Degree of Canon they desire, because the author feels the need to suck up, unless George Lucas declares otherwise, because his 1st degree is more equal than everyone else’s 1st degree.

We hope this clears up any confusion about Canon. If you have any further questions, please send an email to our help center at ‘we won’t answer it anyway.idiocy'. We will do our best to make sure that the answer to your questions are answered with as much obfuscation as possible, preferably by someone who does not even speak your language.

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Old 12-09-2007, 01:25 AM   #54
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New topic -

Revan: Hot or Not?



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Old 12-09-2007, 02:14 AM   #55
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Statement on the new 6 degrees of Star Wars Canon

We, at WookieWikiWarrickWicketpedia, wish to clear up the confusion of ‘Canon’ in Star Wars by instituting a new classification system on how to rank the different Star Wars and Star Wars EU materials. This will replace the Canon-a, b, c and g system (along with other letters and symbols), which was becoming just too confusing, resulting in many emails from forum administrators and moderators who were ‘having to deal with too damn many threads on arguments over Canon’.

1st degree Canon shall be The Movies. Radio adaptations, so long as they include voices from the Original Actors (and Actresses) shall also be 1st degree Canon. The Screenplays are also 1st degree Canon, but only if George Lucas put a ‘GL’ on every page. The official soundtracks are 1st degree Canon, because John Williams has included the use of both the bassoon and the triangle in his music, and quite possibly the krummhorn. Anything spoken by George Lucas is first degree Canon, including those more mundane statements like ‘I want to order a pizza’ and ‘I have to find the nearest restroom.’

2nd degree Canon shall include those radio adaptations that deviate from the script slightly but still maintain the ‘True Spirit’ of the movies. Those radio adaptations that include the voices of Harrison Ford or Liam Neeson shall automatically be changed to 1st degree Canon, because their voices are really sexy. Those adaptations that include excess amounts of Jar-Jar Binks or Ewok cuteness shall automatically be reduced to 6th degree Canon or less.

3rd degree Canon shall include any books that George Lucas decides shall be 3rd degree, which is pretty much everything else not in the 1st and 2nd degrees. It’s his world—if he wants to say a book is 1st degree or 6th degree, we shall bow to his greater wisdom. The exception are the Vong books, which shall be reduced to 6th degree or the 9th circle of Dante’s Inferno, whichever comes last. All Star Wars games are 3rd degree Canon. The Knights of the Old Republic games, because they are Really Righteous, are 2nd degree Canon. We hereby declare all permutations of Revan and Exile to be Canon, because trying to pick just one is really p!$$ing off the fans. The Star Wars Lego games would be 4th degree Canon because of the ‘cutesy factor’, except for the fact that my son really likes the games, so they stay at 3rd degree.

4th degree Canon includes any comic books. Graphic novels remain at 3rd degree because ‘graphic novel’ sounds more cool than ‘comic book.’ The exception is the Knights of the Old Republic comic book series, which is destined to become a Graphic Novel when bound together, and because they’ve drawn Zayne Carrick really cute. It’s at least 3rd degree, and we might even make that series 2nd degree if sales continue to be good.

5th degree Canon includes all fan-fiction, unless they are “Really Good,” which, by our definition, is anything with over 1,000 views on LucasForums or over 15 thumbs-ups on kotorfanmedia. If they’re “Really Good”, then they can, at the option of the administrators, moderators, machievelli, or the author, move to 4th degree. The exception is if the spam-per-view ratio approaches 1:82, in which case the fanfic shall be declared ‘spammy’ and the fic drops to 6th degree. Action figures are 5th degree Canon, unless they involve Yoda, Han Solo, or Luke Skywalker. These are 1st degree Canon because I like them and because Frank Oz rules.

6th degree Canon includes any speculative posts on any forums. It also includes any non-speculative posts, comments, jokes, pictures, and other written, visual, or aural media. Anything else not already specified shall be 6th degree Canon, unless the author finds something she really likes, in which case the Degree of Canon may be altered accordingly. Forum posts that are written by administrators or moderators shall be whatever Degree of Canon they desire, because the author feels the need to suck up, unless George Lucas declares otherwise, because his 1st degree is more equal than everyone else’s 1st degree.

We hope this clears up any confusion about Canon. If you have any further questions, please send an email to our help center at ‘we won’t answer it anyway.idiocy'. We will do our best to make sure that the answer to your questions are answered with as much obfuscation as possible, preferably by someone who does not even speak your language.

Thank you for your kind attention to this matter.
Im sorry but you don't establish canon, you are not a lucasarts employee and you do not define canon.

Even wookiepedia says your wrong, how on earth is lego star wars going to fit into any of the categories?

Instead of clearing up the "confusion", you only caused more confusion. How does fan fiction fall into any of the canon categories? Canon basically means what has happened in the timeline and has been approved by the authories, so tell me why is it called fan fiction? Because it is NOT canon.

So your bascically saying a moderator from this forums can make up a character and declare it "1st degree canon"?.

Last edited by Sephira; 12-09-2007 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 12-09-2007, 02:37 AM   #56
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Are you so sure I'm not an employee?

Lego Star Wars is a game, and all games are 3rd degree canon, except the Kotor games because they are really righteous and sold well. They're 2nd degree canon.

Fanfics are indeed Star Wars-related materials as considered when posted on Lucasforums or kotorfanmedia--they just aren't published in the same way as the published series. That's why they aren't as high a degree. Therefore, with any contradictions, the higher the degree (or technically lower, since being as close to 1 as possible is preferable), the more weight it carries. 2nd degree supersedes 3rd degree, unless it includes Harrison Ford or Frank Oz because they rule. Fortunately for you, your posts are included in this and are 6th degree canon unless you like the Vong, in which case we toss those opinions right out of the forum because Some of Us Don't Like Vong. Nonetheless, you are welcome to enjoy them in secret.

Lucas' First Degree outweighs all other First Degrees, so if He says "I don't like it" it automatically becomes degree-less and null and void, verily thrown into the inferno, so the staff of course exercises judgment in assigning degrees lest that happens.

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Old 12-09-2007, 03:20 AM   #57
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Jae, I'm not sure, should I send the sense of humor via PM or is it something that must be mailed to a person via snail mail(signed in triplicate by Lucasarts and George Lucas)

At any rate back on topic, power is completely relative. I look at it like engines. I've seen 1000 hp cars outran by 500HP cars. Vader had more potential than Palpy, BUT he never truly reached his potential(aside from picking up and throwing the most powerful Sith lord into the core of the second death star). Revan could have been powerful, but he also may have peaked. I mean he was taken out in an attack on his ship(duh he was captured and converted to a mindless noob). Saying he beat Malak is nothing extraordinary, as Malak wasn't that powerful... really. He was always second fiddle to Revan anyway. a well built Chevy small block can have upwards of 1000 hp. But you can't get much more power after that. A basic big block can have 500 hp and not be anywhere near its full potential. The small block may have more power, but the big block isn't at its full capacity. Sure you can say Vader had more potential, but Palpy used every bit he had(and it showed on his face haha). Revan was nowhere near the potential of Vader. Had Anakin stayed with the Jedi, and completed his training, he might have been the most powerful jedi ever. Unfortunately he became a slave to Sideous. Thus his power was always to be limited.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:20 AM   #58
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Are you so sure I'm not an employee?
Even if you are which your clearly not, your not leland chee.
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Lego Star Wars is a game, and all games are 3rd degree canon, except the Kotor games because they are really righteous and sold well. They're 2nd degree canon.
Tell me the events of lego star wars actually took place in the actual star wars universe
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Fanfics are indeed Star Wars-related materials as considered when posted on Lucasforums or kotorfanmedia--they just aren't published in the same way as the published series. That's why they aren't as high a degree. Therefore, with any contradictions, the higher the degree (or technically lower, since being as close to 1 as possible is preferable), the more weight it carries. 2nd degree supersedes 3rd degree, unless it includes Harrison Ford or Frank Oz because they rule. Fortunately for you, your posts are included in this and are 6th degree canon unless you like the Vong, in which case we toss those opinions right out of the forum because Some of Us Don't Like Vong. Nonetheless, you are welcome to enjoy them in secret.
It isn't canon until its approved by the authories hence its called fan-fiction. Secondly you don't "toss" facts out as and when you like, because you do not establish nor do you control the canonical events of star wars, you don't label what is canon, neither do you to discredit them. You are NOT a lucasarts employee and even if you are you do not have the right tto change the meaning of canon unless your daniel wallace, drew karpyshyn or leland chee, the one man who decides whats canon what whats not.
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Lucas' First Degree outweighs all other First Degrees, so if He says "I don't like it" it automatically becomes degree-less and null and void, verily thrown into the inferno, so the staff of course exercises judgment in assigning degrees lest that happens.
Lol and he actually praised dark empire, so i guess its G-canon or if you want "1st degree canon"

Lucas never said anything about kotor, so i guess its non canon by your logic
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Thank you for your inquiries on the Six Degrees.
Not welcomed because you caused more confusion

According to leland chee in his blog, your defination of canon holds no water

Are the entries in the Holocron sorted as canonical & non-canonical? Are there various degrees of "officialness"?
The database does indeed have a canon field for each individual entry and for sources, though the canon level of the entry would overide the canon level of the source since it factors in other sources associated with that entry. When determining canon levels for individual entries, anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else from the EU. There is a secondary "S" continuity classification used for older published materials created when there was less attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon entry that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction. Any contradictions that arise are dealt with on a case-by-case basis.



http://blogs.starwars.com/holocron/4

G-canon is "George Lucas" canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely.

C-canon is "continuity" canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be; they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.
.

There you go, he defines canon, you don't.

Last edited by Sephira; 12-09-2007 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:26 AM   #59
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:-D I like this thread - will these endless "My fav character is more powerful than your fav character" battles ever end??

Seriously, I highly doubt that any of you two is going to convince the other - but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Can't we just say that it's a fantasy world and thus everyone can have their own view of it??
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:34 AM   #60
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Firstly palpatine is NOT my favourite character, its darth vader/anakin skywalker obviously. I am merely stating the facts which are labeled canon which jedimasterjambi refuse to acknowledge and blatantly ignore.

I wouldn't argue that vader is more powerful than revan because its a fact, but when facts and canon comes into the issue, sidious > revan.
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Old 12-09-2007, 03:35 AM   #61
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Hey Sephira, this link should help you understand Jae a little better: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire

Oh, and for the record, I think Revan could definitely go toe-to-toe with Palpatine. Maybe even win.




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Old 12-09-2007, 03:53 AM   #62
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Revan is surely among the most powerful people of his age.

As a Sith Lord, his feats and accomplishments are remarkable enough to place him in the upper tier of the Sith hierarchy.

It was by following Revan' ideologies, the Sith of modern era were able to rise once again and conquer the Galaxy.

Even as a Jedi, his feats are remarkable and his experience is phenomenal.

And he is very intelligent, adaptable and smart.

So it is safe to say that he is among the best in Star Wars Saga.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 12-09-2007 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:17 AM   #63
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Hey Sephira, this link should help you understand Jae a little better: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire
I am unimpressed by his/her sarcasm.
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Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Oh, and for the record, I think Revan could definitely go toe-to-toe with Palpatine. Maybe even win.
Thats your opinion, facts point out sidious would beat revan and theres more than enough evidence to put so.

You still insisting revan "might" beat palpatine only indicates you are a fanboy of revan despite the fact that i have listed all of palpatines feats which in a way makes him a cosmic being in the star was universe

Even i would agree with S_w_legend, he makes it clear revans among the top force users, he doesn't say revan > sidious because he knows its sidious > revan which is fact.

I debate with him all the time on killer movies and i tell you he has extreme bias for kotor characters, and even he can accept the fact that sidious does surpass revan(grudgingly), even with him i can come into agreements, such as vader losing to revan in a saber duel, or vader beating malak in a force fight.

Ill ask you a question, do you think revan can contend with sidious as you want it to be if sidious cuts him off the force? I doubt so
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:35 AM   #64
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Hey Sephira, this link should help you understand Jae a little better: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/satire
You Say Satirical, I say Devils Advocate.... Canon is a touchy subject among SW fans as it is, fan-made canon category's give me a headache, whether said in jest or not.
G, C, and N canon, the end, non debatable


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Old 12-09-2007, 08:39 AM   #65
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I am unimpressed by his/her sarcasm.
I think you need to get out more.

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Thats your opinion, facts point out sidious would beat revan and theres more than enough evidence to put so.
Defeating someone in combat is different from being more powerful than them. Star Wars has traditionally been about overcoming something more powerful than one's self. After all, Palpatine was done in by Darth Vader, someone with 'inferior' power. Does it say anywhere canonical that if Revan and Palpatine were to get into a fight that Palpatine would win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
You still insisting revan "might" beat palpatine only indicates you are a fanboy of revan despite the fact that i have listed all of palpatines feats which in a way makes him a cosmic being in the star was universe
Actually, I don't really care for Revan, nor can I see why most people do, since he's your typical silent protagonist with a shady past trying to atone for his sins, a motif used in countless games, books and movies since the beginning of literature itself. I merely think that Revan might be able to beat Palpatine based on the concept I described above.

It may very well be that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, but that doesn't very well mean that he could defeat anyone. Having great power does not equal a win, as the Star Wars movies and literature demonstrates. Hell, Anakin Skywalker apparently had the most Force potential evar or something, but once he got cut down by Obi-Wan Kenobi (someone apparently less powerful), his potential was severely curtailed. So for you to automatically assume that Palpatine would defeat Revan or Vader or Mace Windu or anyone else is fallacious.




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Old 12-09-2007, 09:04 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
I think you need to get out more.
Which i already have

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Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Defeating someone in combat is different from being more powerful than them. Star Wars has traditionally been about overcoming something more powerful than one's self. After all, Palpatine was done in by Darth Vader, someone with 'inferior' power. Does it say anywhere canonical that if Revan and Palpatine were to get into a fight that Palpatine would win?
Firstly it does, palpatine was stated to have mastered every aspect of the force and shown the ability to destroy an entire star fleet consisting of hundreds and thousands of warships with one single move, and apparantly that is a combat technique.

As for vader "defeating" palpatine, it was due to palpatine being caught off guard, did you ever read the mandalorian armour novel? Palpatine instantly pwned darth vader after vader refused to obey palpatine, and palpatine merely used the force to shut down his life support system.

That is NOT a defination of skill. So would i be considered the ultimate fighter if i went into the greatest fighter on eearths house to beat and then murder the guy? It does not make sense does it, just as you are not making any sense.

And it does not have to be stated palpatine > revan simply because it can be logically assumed that way, seeing that palpatine has reduced three force isers to ashes with one blast of lightning while killing 100 storm troopers with that same lightning.

And the fact that palpatine tooled 3 of the orders finest swordsman in history according to the G-canon ROTS novel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Actually, I don't really care for Revan, nor can I see why most people do, since he's your typical silent protagonist with a shady past trying to atone for his sins, a motif used in countless games, books and movies since the beginning of literature itself. I merely think that Revan might be able to beat Palpatine based on the concept I described above.
Based on the above concept, vader beat palpatine due to a circumstance. Not due to going toe to toe, and it can be argued that revan and vader are in the same leagues of the force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
It may very well be that Palpatine was the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, but that doesn't very well mean that he could defeat anyone.
Everyone? No, The only person he can never beat is NJO luke skywalker of course, but other than luke, everybody elses fall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Having great power does not equal a win, as the Star Wars movies and literature demonstrates. Hell, Anakin Skywalker apparently had the most Force potential evar or something, but once he got cut down by Obi-Wan Kenobi (someone apparently less powerful), his potential was severely curtailed.
For your information, anakin of ROTS had yet to reach his full potential, and according to the novel obi wan was able to put up with the fight only due to him knowing anakins strategy and the fact that he had been in thousands of sparring matchs with anakin skywalker knowing his style head to toe.

Your basically saying "Guy X cut down Guy Z in situation Y, it means that that Guy R can do it to Guy C in situation P"

Right and according to the novel, obi wan defeated anakin under circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
So for you to automatically assume that Palpatine would defeat Revan or Vader or Mace Windu or anyone else is fallacious.
Uh palpatine would annihilate vader, despite being 80% as powerful as he is, as for mace windu, it was due to mace's vaapad and shatter point and the fact that sidious has not fought for 13 years ever since he became chancellor, because by dark empire, sidious could move at speeds faster than the eye can see.

Oh and name me a single force technique that revan canonically has that he can use against palpatine? Oh right he only has inferior powered techniques which palpatine can defend against, while on the other hand, palpatine has techniques that revan has never heard or seen before, such as the ability to destroy revans force bond which will instantly kill him, this is the same technique the great darth nihilus has.

Oh and for your information, seeing that the ancient sith like marka ragnos needed technology to drain the force whereas palpatine replicated this technique without the aid of tools or technology, it pretty much proves how proficient palpatine is.

Again, prove to me revan can defeat palpatine, prove to me revan can even harm him with the force.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:32 AM   #67
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Again, prove to me palpatine can defeat revan, prove to me palpatine can even harm him with the force.

Personally its nice to see a devoted fan of the Sith. But really, I think it is UNKNOWN as to who is the most powerful. As with all things, external situation plays alot in who the winner might be.

So lets just call it a draw.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:38 AM   #68
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I think Sidious by ROTS is stronger than any version Revan. From what Sephira's quotes say, he is the most powerful sith as of that point. Plus Revan's most powerful form is a lightsider(canon ending).Note that Malak seems to think the same. And in the ROTS novel Yoda is called "The most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" That puts Yoda above any light sider to have come so far not just the jedi. As much as I want Revan to beat Sidious I just don't see it happening.
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Old 12-09-2007, 12:04 PM   #69
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Which i already have
Doubtful, given the amount of time you seem to devote to spouting your encyclopedic knowledge of Star Wars canon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Firstly it does, palpatine was stated to have mastered every aspect of the force and shown the ability to destroy an entire star fleet consisting of hundreds and thousands of warships with one single move, and apparantly that is a combat technique.
So what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
As for vader "defeating" palpatine, it was due to palpatine being caught off guard, did you ever read the mandalorian armour novel? Palpatine instantly pwned darth vader after vader refused to obey palpatine, and palpatine merely used the force to shut down his life support system.
Vader may have caught him off-guard, yes, but the fact still remains he defeated Palpatine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
That is NOT a defination of skill.
I never said anything about skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
o would i be considered the ultimate fighter if i went into the greatest fighter on eearths house to beat and then murder the guy?
I never said anything like that either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
It does not make sense does it, just as you are not making any sense.
Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
And it does not have to be stated palpatine > revan simply because it can be logically assumed that way, seeing that palpatine has reduced three force isers to ashes with one blast of lightning while killing 100 storm troopers with that same lightning.
And I can assume that Palpatine can make tasty, low-fat wheat bran muffins with that same lightning.

You are drawing your own conclusions from what has been stated as canon and pushing it off as canon. This is fallacious. You are assuming that since Palpatine possesses more power than Revan that Palpatine would automatically triumph. This would seem to be the most obvious assumption, but again, I refer to the Star Wars saga as a whole to point out that that does not always happen. For instance, the Galactic Empire was the most powerful and dominant force in the galaxy, yet it was still defeated by the Rebel Alliance, despite the latter being far inferior in almost every aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Based on the above concept, vader beat palpatine due to a circumstance.
Palpatine still got beat, didn't he?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
For your information, anakin of ROTS had yet to reach his full potential, and according to the novel obi wan was able to put up with the fight only due to him knowing anakins strategy and the fact that he had been in thousands of sparring matchs with anakin skywalker knowing his style head to toe.
Yes, but the fact still remains Obi-Wan defeated Anakin, despite the latter being far more powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Your basically saying "Guy X cut down Guy Z in situation Y, it means that that Guy R can do it to Guy C in situation P"
Yes. Can. Not will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Oh and name me a single force technique that revan canonically has that he can use against palpatine? Oh right he only has inferior powered techniques which palpatine can defend against, while on the other hand, palpatine has techniques that revan has never heard or seen before, such as the ability to destroy revans force bond which will instantly kill him, this is the same technique the great darth nihilus has.

Oh and for your information, seeing that the ancient sith like marka ragnos needed technology to drain the force whereas palpatine replicated this technique without the aid of tools or technology, it pretty much proves how proficient palpatine is.
I acknowledge that Palpatine is more powerful than Revan, please stop trying to prove this to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Again, prove to me revan can defeat palpatine, prove to me revan can even harm him with the force.
Prove to me Palpatine can defeat Revan without relying on your (fallacious) assumption that because Palpatine is more powerful, he must therefore win by default.




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Old 12-09-2007, 12:44 PM   #70
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Doubtful, given the amount of time you seem to devote to spouting your encyclopedic knowledge of Star Wars canon.
Its called a "hobby", I read on star wars when i have spare time.

I devote my time in movie manipulation thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
So what?
It means revan has no chance against palpatine, the most revan can do is hold his own which he will eventually lose

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Vader may have caught him off-guard, yes, but the fact still remains he defeated Palpatine.
But that isn't a combat feat is it? Your making it sound as if vader beat palpatine in a 1v1 combat situation which he clearly can't.

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Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
I never said anything about skill.
You make it sound like it is.
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Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
I never said anything like that either.
No, but you make it sound that way. Seeing that vader beat palpatine in a circumstance, your trying to imply revan can do thesame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Right.
Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
And I can assume that Palpatine can make tasty, low-fat wheat bran muffins with that same lightning.
You can assume, but do you have anything to back your claims? I on the other hand have the feats listed down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
You are drawing your own conclusions from what has been stated as canon and pushing it off as canon. This is fallacious. You are assuming that since Palpatine possesses more power than Revan that Palpatine would automatically triumph. This would seem to be the most obvious assumption, but again, I refer to the Star Wars saga as a whole to point out that that does not always happen. For instance, the Galactic Empire was the most powerful and dominant force in the galaxy, yet it was still defeated by the Rebel Alliance, despite the latter being far inferior in almost every aspect.
Again it was defeated by the rebel alliance under CIRCUMSTANCES, palpatine ordered the star destroyers NOT to attack the alliance because he wanted to show them the death star was operational, palpatine merely kept the empire at evens length with the alliance so that he can demonstrate the death stars powers.

And its pretty much fact palpatine > revan, and its not just because of a few quotes, its also been a fact that he has more knowledge of the force than revan, that he is more skilled than revan, he has preformed techniques that revan can never defend against. If you actually had logic you wouldn't even try to argue against that.

A circumstance won't happen for revan simply because you want him to win like anakin and obi wan, vader in ROTJ, and he empire's end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Palpatine still got beat, didn't he?
And what does that mean? That he was attacked when he wasn't aware of the dangers? Malak nearly killed revan on the leviathan didn't he? That he got put into a simple stasis field didnt he? That palpatine has more powerful techniques doesn't he?

Again what does this prove? That palpatine is going to stand there and let revan kill him? That when palpatine is focusing on luke skywalker, revan is going to attack him when hes off guard? I can argue the same happens to revan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Yes, but the fact still remains Obi-Wan defeated Anakin, despite the latter being far more powerful.
Under CIRCUMSTANCES, Again a circumstance won't appear for your precious revan because you simply want it to be. Was there a circumstance when vader tooled shady potkin?
Was there a circumstance when revan faced malak on the star forge?

Was there a circumstance when jacen faced onimi? No.

If obi wan beat anakin due to his actual skill and raw power, then i'd acknowledge that as a feat.

So your basically saying inferior people can beat superior force users? Right then i guess going by your logic, a storm trooper can kill darth sidious, a mere padawan can face exar kun head to head, that a droid can face darth vader head to head?

Is that it? Or are you trying to imply that along with the fact that there were circumstances in those battles? And the fact that one won't occur because nothing hints so,
-Revan has never seen the techniques palpatine has demonstrated before
-Revan can't defend against an attack that can destroy his force bond.
-Revan has never heard of the fallanasi looping technique which can hide sidious force bond making him invisible to revan in the force and physically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Yes. Can. Not will.
So the fact that i beat up mike tyson when he is asleep means i can beat up chuck liddel in the ring?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
I acknowledge that Palpatine is more powerful than Revan, please stop trying to prove this to me.
If you actually acknowledged this you wouldn't even try to argue. There you go, the fact remains palpatine > revan in every aspect of the force, there are no circumstances to make it even plausible for revan to even harm the dark lord of the sith simply because palpatines a smarter fighter, a stronger fighter and a fighter who has techniques that revan cannot defend against.

Hell even george lucas said to contend with sidious you have to be as powerful as yoda and according to the ROTS novel yoda has more power than any sith lord before sidious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Prove to me Palpatine can defeat Revan without relying on your (fallacious) assumption that because Palpatine is more powerful, he must therefore win by default.
Because sidious has instantly killed powerful force users with one blast of lightning, and the fact that he could destroy an entire star fleet with his force storm technique.

Prove to me revan can beat palpatine without relying on your fanboyism, oh wait you have yet to even say how revan beats palpatine, you havn't listed anything neither have you prove anything, your asking me for proof when the burden of proof is on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hord
I think Sidious by ROTS is stronger than any version Revan. From what Sephira's quotes say, he is the most powerful sith as of that point. Plus Revan's most powerful form is a lightsider(canon ending).Note that Malak seems to think the same. And in the ROTS novel Yoda is called "The most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known" That puts Yoda above any light sider to have come so far not just the jedi. As much as I want Revan to beat Sidious I just don't see it happening.
^ You read this roguenine? Even he, darth hord whom frequently debates on killermovies, whom's favourite character is revan also can admit the fact that sidious beats revan, despite the fact that he wants it vice versa he still follows canon.

YOU on the other hand just can't accept the fact that sidious defeats your revan, and the fact that there is NOTHING to indicate that revan can even beat sidious while on the other hand there is MORE than enough evidence and feats to prove that sidious WILL be the victor.

You claim your not a fanboy of revan, but just because you say you are not, does not mean you are not a fanboy of revan, seeing that you keep argueing without anything to back your claims that revan will beat palpatine, you havn't even said how palpatine is going to lose to revan, like what technique revans going to use or how he is going to beat sidious in a saber duel.

Everything indicates palpatine has more force knowledge and skill than revan, This is MORE than enough to put him the victor while on the otherhand, there is nothing to indicate a circumstance will occur.

All the sources and feats make it clear palpatine is more powerful than revan, even you acknowledge this YET you still insist revan can beat him despite the fact there is NOTHING to back your claims.
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:10 PM   #71
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IMO Revan will just seduce Palpatine with his dashing good looks (he has the mask so that his minions would stop trying to get with him) and kill him in his sleep.



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Old 12-09-2007, 01:17 PM   #72
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Theres enough evidence to declare palpatine a homo, which is why he touched anakin so much.
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Old 12-09-2007, 01:37 PM   #73
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Sephira, calm yourself please, and refrain from disrespectful statements like this
Quote:
If you actually had logic you wouldn't even try to argue against that.


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Old 12-09-2007, 01:41 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Its called a "hobby", I read on star wars when i have spare time.
You must have tons, then,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
I devote my time in movie manipulation thank you.
You do 'manipulate' quite a lot, I'll give you that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
It means revan has no chance against palpatine, the most revan can do is hold his own which he will eventually lose
Where does it say that in Star Wars canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Your making it sound as if vader beat palpatine in a 1v1 combat situation
No, I did not. I merely said Vader defeated Palpatine, with no extra qualifiers added onto my statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
which he clearly can't.
In your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
You make it sound like it is.
Again, no I did not. You're the one talking about skill and feats and all that. If anything, my message is about overcoming a superior power in spite of the more powerful skills arrayed against them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
No, but you make it sound that way. Seeing that vader beat palpatine in a circumstance, your trying to imply revan can do thesame
And who is to say he cannot, should that fight ever happen (however unlikely it is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
You can assume, but do you have anything to back your claims?
The entire Star Wars saga, which was built around the notion that one does not have to be all powerful to come out as the winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
I on the other hand have the feats listed down.
I am not arguing based on feats/skills/abilities, what have you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Again it was defeated by the rebel alliance under CIRCUMSTANCES, palpatine ordered the star destroyers NOT to attack the alliance because he wanted to show them the death star was operational, palpatine merely kept the empire at evens length with the alliance so that he can demonstrate the death stars powers.
Yes, but in the end, the Rebel's still won, didn't they? In spite of the Empire's power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
And its pretty much fact palpatine > revan, and its not just because of a few quotes, its also been a fact that he has more knowledge of the force than revan, that he is more skilled than revan, he has preformed techniques that revan can never defend against.
And who's to say Revan won't find a way to stop Palpatine from ever using said techniques? I am not saying he will, I am saying it is possible. Again, being more powerful does not guarantee you a win, especially in the Star Wars universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
If you actually had logic you wouldn't even try to argue against that.
Actually, I do have logic and that is exactly why I'm arguing against that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
A circumstance won't happen for revan simply because you want him to win like anakin and obi wan, vader in ROTJ, and he empire's end.
How do you know that it 'won't' happen? Did George Lucas tell you himself? Or is this what you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
And what does that mean? That he was attacked when he wasn't aware of the dangers?
Hey, if Palpatine is so powerful, why didn't he see the danger coming and stop it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
I can argue the same happens to revan.
Yes you can! That is the beauty of it! You can argue it any way you want because until someone from LucasArts says so, that's all this will ever be. Arguments, not fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Under CIRCUMSTANCES, Again a circumstance won't appear for your precious revan because you simply want it to be.
But you do not know for sure it will not happen, so please stop trying to convince me so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
So your basically saying inferior people can beat superior force users?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Right then i guess going by your logic, a storm trooper can kill darth sidious, a mere padawan can face exar kun head to head, that a droid can face darth vader head to head?
Yes, and based on the situation and their surroundings, the underdog might very well come out on top. I am not saying it will happen, but I am saying that there is a possibility. Again, "can" is not synonymous with "will".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
So the fact that i beat up mike tyson when he is asleep means i can beat up chuck liddel in the ring?
If he's asleep, sure. And please stop with the strawmen, it's getting really tiresome watching you put words in my mouth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
If you actually acknowledged this you wouldn't even try to argue. There you go, the fact remains palpatine > revan in every aspect of the force, there are no circumstances to make it even plausible for revan to even harm the dark lord of the sith simply because palpatines a smarter fighter, a stronger fighter and a fighter who has techniques that revan cannot defend against.
There were seemingly no circumstances that made the idea of the Rebellion beating the Empire plausible, yet it happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Hell even george lucas said to contend with sidious you have to be as powerful as yoda
Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Prove to me revan can beat palpatine without relying on your fanboyism, oh wait you have yet to even say how revan beats palpatine, you havn't listed anything neither have you prove anything, your asking me for proof when the burden of proof is on you.
Okay. Revan teleports to the future where he meets Palpatine. They face off, say the standard 'wah i am more powerful than you' blather, then start fighting. Palpatine is so wrapped up in toying around with Revan that he does not notice that Revan has tied his shoelaces together. Palpatine tries to take a step foward, trips and falls and Revan skewers him through the head. The end.

Implausible? Yes. Improbable? Yes. Impossible? No, not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
^ You read this roguenine? Even he, darth hord whom frequently debates on killermovies, whom's favourite character is revan also can admit the fact that sidious beats revan, despite the fact that he wants it vice versa he still follows canon.
Oh, just because he thinks so means I have to? No thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
You claim your not a fanboy of revan, but just because you say you are not, does not mean you are not a fanboy of revan
Show me one instance where I said 'omg Revan is teh awsumz he is teh bestest he can beat anyone yay'. Oh wait, if I'm arguing for a potential Revan victory, then that must mean I wear Revan undies and have posters of Revan plastered all over my wall and I brush my teeth with a Revan toothbrush.

Please. Stop with your foolish assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Everything indicates palpatine has more force knowledge and skill than revan, This is MORE than enough to put him the victor while on the otherhand, there is nothing to indicate a circumstance will occur.
Again, there was nothing to indicate that the Rebel Alliance would defeat the Empire, that Vader would move to save his son, that Anakin's raw power would overcome Obi-Wan. But they still happened, didn't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
All the sources and feats make it clear palpatine is more powerful than revan, even you acknowledge this YET you still insist revan can beat him despite the fact there is NOTHING to back your claims.
There is ample evidence. You just choose to write it off as 'fanboyism'.

And after all this, may I point out that you are not an employee of LucasArts either? Thus, everything you say is conjecture and not canon. Not to mention your assumptions are logically fallacious, so please stop trying to force your opinion on others. Also, please stop being condescending, confrontational, and insufferable. It really doesn't help the discussion and might have some pretty unwanted consequences.




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Old 12-09-2007, 02:03 PM   #75
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Quote:
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I wear Revan undies
There wasn't enough room for Revan on the ones I saw you in ;o



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Old 12-09-2007, 02:36 PM   #76
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Eh, the Death Star could pwn them all.


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Old 12-09-2007, 03:36 PM   #77
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Jae, I'm not sure, should I send the sense of humor via PM or is it something that must be mailed to a person via snail mail(signed in triplicate by Lucasarts and George Lucas)

Well, if you're going to send it snail mail, use Fedex or Brown Overnight Express so that it gets there as quickly as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Even if you are which your clearly not, your not leland chee.
Thank God. He's not my husband's type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Tell me the events of lego star wars actually took place in the actual star wars universe
Is there an _actual_ Star Wars universe? For Six Degrees' sake, we'll create a special Lego Star Wars canon all by itself, and the Real Characters can be 1st degree, and the mixed up versions can be 2nd. That way, my Jar-Jar-Jabba-Darth Maul character with the stormtrooper helmet can be included in Special Canon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
It isn't canon until its approved by the authories hence its called fan-fiction. Secondly you don't "toss" facts out as and when you like, because you do not establish nor do you control the canonical events of star wars, you don't label what is canon, neither do you to discredit them. You are NOT a lucasarts employee and even if you are you do not have the right tto change the meaning of canon unless your daniel wallace, drew karpyshyn or leland chee, the one man who decides whats canon what whats not.
Well, George Said So over drinks the other day. He likes a good single malt scotch, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Lol and he actually praised dark empire, so i guess its G-canon or if you want "1st degree canon"
No, _Only_ the movies are 1st degree, and screenplays if George has put a 'GL' on every page. You gotta get these things right, you know. There are special nuances with these things, but everyone will catch on in time and will even thank me for Clearing It Up and Making Life More Meaningful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Lucas never said anything about kotor, so i guess its non canon by your logic
Oh, no, Kotor is a game, so it's 3rd degree, but might get moved to 2nd degree if sales continue to be good, and especially if they come out with Kotor 3 because the fans will Really love Lucasarts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Not welcomed because you caused more confusion
I know that change can be difficult for some people, but we'll press on and adjust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
According to leland chee in his blog, your defination of canon holds no water
Chee wouldn't even _have_ a job if I hadn't put the bug in George's ear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chee-a-crap
anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else from the EU. There is a secondary "S" continuity classification used for older published materials created when there was less attention to making everything in the EU fit with everything else in the EU. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon entry that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction. Any contradictions that arise are dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
Chee needed to clear things up, you know, because we're all tired of silly canon fights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely.
Right. Which is why George's 1st Degree is more equal than all other 1st degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
There you go, he defines canon, you don't.
Well. Wait til I tell George about this blog post! Chee's just getting uppity there.


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Old 12-09-2007, 04:39 PM   #78
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Old 12-09-2007, 05:07 PM   #79
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@Rouge Nine-it sounds like you are trying to say that if Revan would fight Sidious 100 times than Sidious wins like 99 times but Revan would win the one time( or very simliar #s). Is that what you are getting? Because I would have to agree with that logic but if it is in vs thread than we would have to go by the more common outcome which is Sidious beating Revan.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:19 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
It means revan has no chance against palpatine, the most revan can do is hold his own which he will eventually lose
Against Dark Empire incarnation of Sidious, he surely has no hope and this is not just the case with Revan.

DE Sidious can defeat any Sith Lord in single combat but one Sith Lord is getting close and guess who that is? Darth Caedus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Again it was defeated by the rebel alliance under CIRCUMSTANCES, palpatine ordered the star destroyers NOT to attack the alliance because he wanted to show them the death star was operational, palpatine merely kept the empire at evens length with the alliance so that he can demonstrate the death stars powers.
And than he suddenly decided to unleash the power of Death Star on Rebel forces and we saw Death Star firing at the Capital Ships of the Rebels in the ROTJ movie. Now was that not massive? It surely send a chill down the spine of Luke who was witnessing the carnage.

And by the time Sidious was dead, The Empire was going all out against the Rebel forces but it was already too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Malak nearly killed revan on the leviathan didn't he?
According to DSSB, Malak possessed devastating dark side power. And add to this the fact that Revan was not thinking clearly on Leviathan. He was behaving like ROTS Vader on Mustafar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
That he got put into a simple stasis field didnt he?
And that was when Revan was in a state of shock and was not thinking clearly after the revelation.

And not to forget that Malak was also a powerful Force User.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
That palpatine has more powerful techniques doesn't he?
So does Revan.

Though I would give credibility to Palpatine' Force Storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
-Revan can't defend against an attack that can destroy his force bond.
You need to show me some sort of strong canonical evidence that shows that Palpatine knows Nihilus' Super Force Severing technique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
-Revan has never heard of the fallanasi looping technique which can hide sidious force bond making him invisible to revan in the force and physically.
When did Sidious learned about Fallanasi Looping Technique? Did he even met with a Fallanasi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
there are no circumstances to make it even plausible for revan to even harm the dark lord of the sith simply because palpatines a smarter fighter, a stronger fighter and a fighter who has techniques that revan cannot defend against.
Revan can surely harm Sidious at-least.

Revan' Force Lightning Storm is powerful enough to cause destruction on a big scale. And he knows some other dangerous techniques too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Hell even george lucas said to contend with sidious you have to be as powerful as yoda and according to the ROTS novel yoda has more power than any sith lord before sidious.
And Revan is like Yoda in most ways.

He knows more offensive techniques than Yoda. The best thing about Revan is that He understood all aspects of the Force and was trained to use the dark side as well.

You must also not forget that it took a direct hit from a Turbo-Laser canon to bring down Revan to his knees during his reign as the Dark Lord. Now if such level of power is required to bring down Revan than he can surely put up a good fight against any kind of foe.

At-least Palpatine will know that he fought against a skilled and challenging combatant and not a fool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephira
Because sidious has instantly killed powerful force users with one blast of lightning
Tell me one thing! What would happen if those dark side prophets would get caught in Revan' Force Lightning Storm based attack?

But the way! I am getting tired of this Revan vs Sidious crap. People should stop with this non-sense now and move on. Revan was great in his time and same is the case with Sidious. And it is true that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars Saga.

Anyways! Star Wars is mean't to be enjoyed and not preached.

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