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Old 10-27-2007, 05:59 PM   #1
Negative Sun
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Linux distros...

As I've mentioned once or twice my penniless, jobless and very bored self has been looking into some Linux distros with VirtualBox to try and find one I would like...

The one I've checked out the most so far is the newest Ubuntu (7.10 Gutsy Gibbon, lolz), and I love the "everything just works" philosophy, but it's not that great if you love plugins and codecs and such I've noticed.

Next on the hit list to check out is Kubuntu cause though I'm quite pleased with the GNOME environment in Ubuntu I wanna know what KDE is all about.

After that there's Linux Mint, Fedora and Sabayon (maybe) to check out because they promise to have more fancy stuff with them with more codecs and plugins etc...

Anyone using/used any of these? Any thoughts at all?



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Old 10-28-2007, 04:54 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Sun
Next on the hit list to check out is Kubuntu cause though I'm quite pleased with the GNOME environment in Ubuntu I wanna know what KDE is all about.
With you there, bro. KDE is easier to get used to for Windows users and runs much smoother and faster, at least on my lameass PC, as compared to GNOME. GNOME is rather decent, but it can hog resources. Also, KDE's next version, the awe-inspiring, jaw-dropping, pure-brilliance KDE 4 strikes somewhere in December.

Kubuntu Gutsy doesn't have Compiz-Fusion built-in, though (I think) and so you'll have to install it manually, unlike Ubuntu. Also, support and help for Kubuntu is lesser than Ubuntu, but nevertheless, brilliant. I suggest you go for Kubuntu, though that's just personal preference.

It doesn't matter a whole lot as to what distro you pick in the end, though. Almost every distro is flexible enough to let you get and remove what you want. I haven't encountered any codec/driver problems in my experience of Ubuntu and Kubuntu, so there.

(BTW, if you have some extra space, patience and need to look spiffy, you can install Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Ubuntu all together, because they're all based on the same kernel )


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Old 10-28-2007, 09:22 AM   #3
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How would you install them all at the same time? Do you mean by multi-booting or another (secret Linux ) way?

Downloaded Kubuntu, I'll give it a go once I'm finished playing around with some others...

I'm liking Linux Mint as well, though it's a bit heavier on the good 'ol resources, it does what it promises, a more complete experience and apparently it's supposed to be very friendly with WinXP if you wanted to dual-boot it (no KDE yet though, rats!)...Which might be better because OS virtualization is quite heavy on this PC (768Mb RAM = ouch!)



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Old 10-28-2007, 12:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Sun
How would you install them all at the same time? Do you mean by multi-booting or another (secret Linux ) way?

Downloaded Kubuntu, I'll give it a go once I'm finished playing around with some others...

I'm liking Linux Mint as well, though it's a bit heavier on the good 'ol resources, it does what it promises, a more complete experience and apparently it's supposed to be very friendly with WinXP if you wanted to dual-boot it (no KDE yet though, rats!)...Which might be better because OS virtualization is quite heavy on this PC (768Mb RAM = ouch!)
It's a piece of cake. once you have Kubuntu installed, open up Adept and install ubuntu-desktop (and/or xubuntu-desktop). It'll bring along a ton of dependencies, which should amount upto 200-300 MB, I think. Once it's done, you boot like this:
Once you get to the login screen, look for an option called "Session" or something like that. Pick GNOME, KDE or Xfce here to choose which flavour you like best.

You should note, that you'll have tons of programs installed if you bring in multiple Ubuntu flavours. There are some guides about completely switching from one flavour to another (and blasting the first flavour) out there - I'll dig them, maybe.

I'm interested in Linux Mint too, though it doesn't make the cut for me - yet. It still looks rather incomplete, IMO. I love the way it looks and feels, though.


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Old 10-28-2007, 03:57 PM   #5
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I see what you mean about incomplete though, I can't quite put my finger on it but it does feel as if it's lacking something...Maybe it's the lack of free games that Ubuntu does have lolz

Thanks for that info Sabre, I'll have plenty of time to play around with them cause I'll only make the jump once I get a new rig probably (or an extra HDD or something maybe)



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Old 10-30-2007, 11:42 AM   #6
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Debian Linux, hands down.

It's not necessarily a beginner distro, though, but one for those who want more than a plug and play distro.


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Old 10-30-2007, 01:02 PM   #7
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Sabayon. I can say that because I've tried every distro mentioned in this thread other than Mint.

It installs everything during the install (I had a little problem with my Wifi, but at the time the driver for my 4965AGN was iffy, so it wasn't a Sabayon issue) unlike Ubuntu (which doesn't install graphics drivers), and comes with compiz-fusion (which I usually end up disabling since it almost Vistaizes the memory usage).

Plus, since it's Gentoo-based, it has Portage, which is miles ahead of apt in terms of being up-to-date and usability.



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Old 10-30-2007, 01:08 PM   #8
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Gentoo, huh? Hm. I was thinking about that too the other day. But I switched to unstable again and I am pretty utd imo. Are you using the new intel wifi driver? Cause I am about to check that one for my 3945 wlan..


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Old 10-30-2007, 01:19 PM   #9
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I'm on XP so I'm not sure which version I have. I'm fairly sure that there's been a production driver for the 3945 that's officially supported by Intel (it's on their download site, check the ilwifi site for the link) for some time now though.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:24 PM   #10
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I'm using the stable ipw3945 driver for linux, as far as I know there is only 4965 support in intel's newer daemonless linux wifi project so..


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Old 10-30-2007, 06:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
Sabayon. I can say that because I've tried every distro mentioned in this thread other than Mint.

It installs everything during the install (I had a little problem with my Wifi, but at the time the driver for my 4965AGN was iffy, so it wasn't a Sabayon issue) unlike Ubuntu (which doesn't install graphics drivers), and comes with compiz-fusion (which I usually end up disabling since it almost Vistaizes the memory usage).

Plus, since it's Gentoo-based, it has Portage, which is miles ahead of apt in terms of being up-to-date and usability.
Downloading Sabayon, boy it's huge (yay for no D/L cap!), but I'm already liking Kubuntu so if this has got a couple of more gigs of goodness I say bring it.



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Old 10-30-2007, 07:31 PM   #12
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I've had KDE for quite some time (since I use linux, duh), but switched to GNOME like 7 months ago. KDE is good, but too overpowered for my liking and GNOME appears to be somewhat easier on my eyes, I'm also more of a console nerd anyway. Like with dem girls: pretty on the outside, and more than thousand opportunities underneath.


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Old 10-30-2007, 07:40 PM   #13
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KDE runs just as smooth as GNOME on my system, an that's just virtualized, GNOME doesn't look bad though, but I find it maybe a tad too clinical, I like the prettiness of KDE (*gasp* shallow me!)

KDE 4 looks even sexier



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Old 10-30-2007, 07:46 PM   #14
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I know. To each his own, then.


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Old 10-30-2007, 09:24 PM   #15
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Amen

So does everyone who uses Linux dual-boot with Windows or another OS or is it good enough as a standalone OS?



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Old 10-30-2007, 11:23 PM   #16
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I need to use Windows for school and I've been too lazy to fix my GRUB config, so I've been using XP a lot lately. But yeah unless you're a gamer Linux is the way to go.



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Old 10-30-2007, 11:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Sun
So does everyone who uses Linux dual-boot with Windows or another OS or is it good enough as a standalone OS?
I dual-boot here, but only because Ubuntu (switching to K today) runs slow here and because I need teh games. Not to mention that XP is a damn stable OS, and I won't deny that that.

Linux is obviously a great standalone OS, as a lot of recent distros have proven. If your needs are limited to graphic design, internets, office utilities, servers, coding, and well, anything other than gaming - I don't see why not. Wine is still a baby, though. I've heard rumours about some changes coming into the Wine code that's going to allow seamless Windows compatibility. Once/if that happens, I'm dumping my XP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NS
KDE runs just as smooth as GNOME on my system, an that's just virtualized, GNOME doesn't look bad though, but I find it maybe a tad too clinical, I like the prettiness of KDE (*gasp* shallow me!)
Yeah, I don't know why, but most people report that KDE and GNOME run equally fast while Xfce is the only uber-fast Desktop Environment. When I went from GNOME to KDE, things were like woah-omg-so-fast-its-heaven. Or well, at least, tolerable. I'll say that GNOME looks prettier, IMO - and it has, I dunno, a nice feel to it. Won't be saying that when the big 4 is out, though.

Sabayon looks interesting. I'll look into it, though I fear it's not a beginner distro (is it?) and my lack of uberskillzen will be exposed.


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Old 10-31-2007, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Yeah, I don't know why, but most people report that KDE and GNOME run equally fast while Xfce is the only uber-fast Desktop Environment.
That's because Xfce = GNOME-everything good about GNOME+fail.



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Old 11-02-2007, 06:37 AM   #19
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That equation is so convincing, it simply cannot be wrong. It's almost like the 4th absolute principle of the universe: jaymack = truth XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
I've heard rumours about some changes coming into the Wine code that's going to allow seamless Windows compatibility. Once/if that happens, I'm dumping my XP.
Well there will never be 100% compatibility, but it's getting better by the minute. The advance they made within the last 6 months is really impressive. Almost every program I tested at work runs out of the box now, whereas I had to adjust a couple of settings and install native DLLs and whatnot some time ago (not to mention those which did not run at all). But when I don't have to use a windows program, I don't. So at home it's just for the gaming, nothing else. But even here, especially regarding DirectX implementation, they move on insanely fast.

Although I would really love to see that game developers start to make linux ports for games, it's not that hard at all and has been done already.


Quote:
I don't know why, but most people report that KDE and GNOME run equally fast while Xfce is the only uber-fast Desktop Environment. When I went from GNOME to KDE, things were like woah-omg-so-fast-its-heaven. Or well, at least, tolerable. I'll say that GNOME looks prettier, IMO - and it has, I dunno, a nice feel to it. Won't be saying that when the big 4 is out, though.
It also depends on what distribution you use, for instance SuSE's KDE was so slow, it came back out on the fast side again. With SuSE 10.2 it's better now, but their YAST/YUM implementation still is just lame shyte (it's not a "native" KDE thing). As for Debian or Ubuntu, I'd say they are actually like equal fast. Still, KDE is bigger and more powerful, thus it *can* use more resources and in that case it *will* feel somewhat slower, especially on non contemporary machines.


Quote:
Sabayon looks interesting.
Indeed, it looks pretty and promising. But, *urgh*, it's standard desktop is KDE.
Naja, whatever, I think espeshully since jaymo is so fancy with it, I'll give it a try, and also I have yet too check a Gentoo based distro.


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Old 11-02-2007, 07:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
Indeed, it looks pretty and promising. But, *urgh*, it's standard desktop is KDE.
But it's nice enought to give you GNOME as an option as well when you install it m'man (at least the DVD version does, dunno about the CD version)
Installed it on my Virtual Machine yesterday and I'm thoroughly impressed...I didn't go for any of the fancy desktop environment stuff as KDE is pretty enough for me, and it runs smooth even in a VM with only 320Mb of RAM!

And it looks like you do get absolutely everything with it, even some cool looking open source games (Flight Sim, FPS, MMO etc...)

I'll have to test drive it a bit more but it looks like we have a winner, only problem with me is the size for the full DVD install cause that means it won't fit on my measly 6GB second HDD



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Old 11-04-2007, 10:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ray Jones
Although I would really love to see that game developers start to make linux ports for games, it's not that hard at all and has been done already.
Unreal Tournament 3 Hell Yeah. \m/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
As for Debian or Ubuntu, I'd say they are actually like equal fast. Still, KDE is bigger and more powerful, thus it *can* use more resources and in that case it *will* feel somewhat slower, especially on non contemporary machines.
Well, I can stand testimony to the fact that KDE is running a lot faster on my Ubuntu (now Kubuntu) than GNOME. I knew it was for real when I ran the Rain plugin in Compiz-Fusion and the rain was seamlessly smooth and much faster than before. Of course, my computer is ****, no doubt, but Kubuntu rocks for me. Now I just need to get rid of that Permissions problem bugging me...


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Old 11-05-2007, 02:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Well, I can stand testimony to the fact that KDE is running a lot faster on my Ubuntu (now Kubuntu) than GNOME. I knew it was for real when I ran the Rain plugin in Compiz-Fusion and the rain was seamlessly smooth and much faster than before. Of course, my computer is ****, no doubt, but Kubuntu rocks for me.
Oh KDE ran really flawlessly for me, but I got sick of all the knobs and bells and settings, and I cannot say GNOME is slower or not as reactive in any way. However, to my experience it really might differ from distro to distro.

Quote:
Now I just need to get rid of that Permissions problem bugging me...
sudo chmod o+rwx -R /*

XD


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Old 11-05-2007, 07:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
That equation is so convincing, it simply cannot be wrong. It's almost like the 4th absolute principle of the universe: jaymack = truth XD
Exactly. Rayston we need to brainstorm and find a way to net me my own constant, ⁂‽



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Old 11-06-2007, 03:55 AM   #24
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OK so I bs'd and here it goes, your own universal constant: 1.003897108987683900918097328943675752970876821994 26 (The jmac'sche Zahl)


It describes the correlation of circumference length ratio, degree and depth of penetration ratio, and lust.



In other news, I have downloaded Sabayon and maybe by tonight I'll check it. But before that I have to finish to backup my system, since I am about to switch my filesystem.


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Old 11-06-2007, 04:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Ray Jones
sudo chmod o+rwx -R /*

XD
You think I didn't try that?

Here's my absolutely unanswered and ignored thread at the Ubuntu Forums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=599476


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Old 11-06-2007, 05:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
2. In Konsole, when I'm running a program via Terminal, I see this:
Code:
Error: "/var/tmp/kdecache-shirke" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/kde-shirke" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
Error: "/tmp/ksocket-shirke" is owned by uid 1000 instead of uid 0.
shirke is my username, just so you know. There are several errors like this, and I haven't noticed a particular pattern in them.
This should be a bug in KDE.

No really. I think the "pattern" you are looking for is that you try to run stuff as root using sudo/kdesu?





Quote:
3. Everytime I exit Dolphin, I see this:
Quote:
Unable to save bookmarks in /home/shirke/.kde/share/apps/d3lphin/bookmarks.xml . Reported error was: Permission denied. This error message will only be shown once. The cause of the error needs to be fixed as quickly as possible, which is most likely a full hard drive.
It's a bug too. (i think)

Quote:
Originally Posted by link above
deleting the files bookmarks.xml and bookmarks.bak solves this problem.

the permisson of bookmarks.xml is set to root after using the "open as root" option.
I think it's somehow related to the "sudo bug".
You could try setting the owner of those files back to shirke instead of deleting them.




Quote:
This is driving me nuts!
No, this is driving me nuts! *points to a hundred really outraged squirrels in his really tight pants*


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Old 11-06-2007, 12:10 PM   #27
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If it's a sudo bug, don't use sudo.

Try:
sudo passwd # in case you haven't changed your root password yet
<enter password>
su -
chown -R shirke /*



*sigh* silly ubanto


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
In other news, I have downloaded Sabayon and maybe by tonight I'll check it. But before that I have to finish to backup my system, since I am about to switch my filesystem.
Don't forget to patch reiser4. http://murderfs.com/



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Old 11-06-2007, 02:00 PM   #28
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Urgh. I am no friend of ReiserFS. It has unacceptable lags when it comes to list the content of a directory with more than one file in it. Ext3/4 is in, I mean XFS is pure awesome but has to go 'coz it doesn't really supports the kernel's laptop mode.


chown shirke doesn't really help, as it's a problem with kdesu setting rights in /tmp at runtime eh


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Old 11-06-2007, 04:01 PM   #29
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I've yet to try reiser4, I did have reiser3 on my desktop before, but I had to do away with it so's I could use SELinux. I think I've tried XFS once or twice but meh. Didn't notice a difference between that and ext3. Never tried ext4 because whatever.

Also lucky you you don't really have to worry about reiser5. I hope you're happy it only took a woman's death to almost halt it's development but as long as Rayston doesn't have to even think about it I guess it's okay right.



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Old 11-06-2007, 04:41 PM   #30
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XD lol rite as usual jay

The only thing that makes XFS slow is deletion of files. You may not notice this for one but when you delete a kernel source folder it literally takes ages. And by ages I mean 10 minutes minimum. Besides that it is ass fast I swear. Even with several tasks doing read/write operations at the same time you feel nothing but the g forces. X)


Errm. Did you use the Sabayon CD or DVD?


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Old 11-06-2007, 11:47 PM   #31
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DVD baby. Make sure to apply whatever xdeltas are available too.



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Old 11-07-2007, 01:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
I think it's somehow related to the "sudo bug".
You could try setting the owner of those files back to shirke instead of deleting them.
Nah, I deleted them - I didn't have any worth saving (they weren't getting saved anyways )

Things look cool... for now.


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Old 11-12-2007, 04:38 PM   #33
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I heard slackware is good if you want something stable, but of course I heard this from a hacker so you probably have to be well versed in linux stuff to use it.

As for playing windows games, you can try wine,

http://www.winehq.org/

though I myself have yet to really play with it to get a game to work. The only game I've been able to satisfactorily install and play is alien arena, code red, though my network is being an anus over ports so I can't play with any one.
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Old 11-12-2007, 06:15 PM   #34
Det. Bart Lasiter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Man
I heard slackware is good if you want something stable, but of course I heard this from a hacker so you probably have to be well versed in linux stuff to use it.
Slackware's pretty easy to use. I'm not really a fan of it, but it's a pretty okay distro.


On a side note, I made the switch from Debian to FreeBSD (I grabbed 7-beta2) on my server machine the other day. The install process was a easily more difficult than something like Debian, but fairly easy compared to a distro like Gentoo. I'm really liking it so far, it's fast, and things seem more... organized than on Linux. That is, every Joe Random with some server space doesn't have a repository for it, and FreeBSD is FreeBSD, there's no dicking around with getting distro-specific packages working on it (unless of course you're installing something written for Linux).

The package management system on it isn't perfect (I prefer Portage to it), but there isn't a steep learning curve to it (as is the rest of the system if you've used Linux before), in general, pkg_add -r <name> will find and add the package you need with no issues.

I still have to run some load tests on it, but I'm guessing it'll outperform Debian.



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Old 11-13-2007, 10:42 AM   #35
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(Also depends on the kernel you use. Maybe. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabayon Live DVD
this be the beat to rock for the street
more hot **** we givin' you more heat
feelin' that bounce we banging' the concrete
bangin' it in the club and bangin' it in your jeep
Yau. XD

Okay, so far Sabayon offers the best Live CD/DVD thingy I have ever seen. Plus, the HD installer is pretty nice, and everything seems to be well. However, what kind of disturbs me is that even if I choose "GNOME Desktop" the software selection still offers nothing but "KDE components". Hm.

To me basically Sabayon is a beginner distribution somehow, as it's all pretty pre-chewed and pre-set and the goal is obviously to keep the need to go console and stuff at a minimum. A little too much KDE-flaved for my likings, but still very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
there's no dicking around with getting distro-specific packages working on it
Alternatively you always have the choice to get the source code, what makes you kind of package-independent too. However, if you'd be my package, i'd love dickin' around with you all nite long. Twice. ^^;;;


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Old 11-13-2007, 11:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Alternatively you always have the choice to get the source code, what makes you kind of package-independent too.
Yeah but some mean people don't release source distributions of whatever they're peddling ;_;



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
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Old 11-13-2007, 03:22 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
Yeah but some mean people don't release source distributions of whatever they're peddling ;_;
Off with their heads!!!

I love Sabayon though, as soon as I get a new rig I'll put it on a seperate HDD (as I want to keep the evil XP for gaming purposes)



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Old 12-02-2007, 12:08 PM   #38
Du Man
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Is it true that ubuntu puts more stress on your hardware? I think I've noticed that my harddisk has been rotating none stop, and I'm trying to remember if it did so when I had xp.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:02 AM   #39
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So since when does a rotating HDD mean there is more stress put to the hardware?


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Old 12-04-2007, 07:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Sun
Off with their heads!!!

I love Sabayon though, as soon as I get a new rig I'll put it on a seperate HDD (as I want to keep the evil XP for gaming purposes)
I also think sabayon looks interesting I dont know what it means when it says its HD optimised, but I might have a squiz

mtfbwya


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