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Old 11-20-2007, 12:12 AM   #1
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Now that Mass Effect is coming out/out.....

Is this when we'll be hearing more about BioWare and LucasArts partnership? I sure hope so......from reading Mass Effect reviews, BioWare is still top notch in terms of story and voice acting. They say ME looks so gorgeous visually and they're kicking so much ass that it makes me salivate at the thought of what they can do with KOTOR III. In Mass Effect Raphael Sbarge (Carth) and Jennifer Hale (Bastila) do provide voices too so it'll be fun to hear them again. Judging by what they've done here I have SUCH high hopes in the team to make KOTOR III everything we want.


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Old 11-20-2007, 12:45 AM   #2
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January: "leaked" screenie of KotOR(esque) MMO showing interface with the player having a gun(no sabre) but just visible in distance a red glowbat....

June: Announcement from LA/Bioware what the project really is(either the MMO, or KotORIII).
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
January: "leaked" screenie of KotOR(esque) MMO showing interface with the player having a gun(no sabre) but just visible in distance a red glowbat....

June: Announcement from LA/Bioware what the project really is(either the MMO, or KotORIII).
A little explanation goes a long way

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Old 11-20-2007, 07:30 AM   #4
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Well They won't release any new information about the new project until after the holiday season. Nothing until after christmas definately, and since many of them will be on vacation, it probably won't hapen until after the new year. So January for some sneak peak at an ultra secret project they are working on... They will want people to be so ingrained in Mass Effect until after the holidays are over, that they wouldn't let any information out until after the holiday season has finished.

Now to create a massive stir, the best way is to give people a glimpse at a "Secret Project" and without seeming like they are straight giving it to us so as to generate more speculation. What is it? Is it real? Is that a lightsaber in the background(enter the photoshoppers and pixel junkies to enlarge that segment of the screenshot). IT IS A LIGHTSABRE!!! Debate ensues over what it is, and is not, people are frantic to know what it really is, June comes and everyone is frothing at the mouth for some new information. Enter the heros with a huge announcement.... ITS KoTOR <Online/III> Due out September <year>

See how that works?
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Old 11-20-2007, 08:01 AM   #5
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I hope you're wrong. Not a MMO, please.


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Old 11-20-2007, 10:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
January: "leaked" screenie of KotOR(esque) MMO showing interface with the player having a gun(no sabre) but just visible in distance a red glowbat....

June: Announcement from LA/Bioware what the project really is(either the MMO, or KotORIII).
Do you have a link to that screenie , of any site ?

Just curious what your"re talking about . I tend to surf around game-sites and have not seen that "leaked" material .


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Old 11-20-2007, 11:23 AM   #7
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A ME-esque KOTOR game would make me require a change of my rather large and colourful pants.

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Old 11-20-2007, 11:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quanon
Do you have a link to that screenie , of any site ?

Just curious what your"re talking about . I tend to surf around game-sites and have not seen that "leaked" material .

There is no screenie or "leaked" material [at least not yet]. He is simply speculating about how it will all go down. And it sounds pretty logical to me. The dates he suggests could be wrong, but that's not the point.

Quote:
Well They won't release any new information about the new project until after the holiday season. Nothing until after christmas definately, and since many of them will be on vacation, it probably won't hapen until after the new year. So January for some sneak peak at an ultra secret project they are working on... They will want people to be so ingrained in Mass Effect until after the holidays are over, that they wouldn't let any information out until after the holiday season has finished.

Now to create a massive stir, the best way is to give people a glimpse at a "Secret Project" and without seeming like they are straight giving it to us so as to generate more speculation. What is it? Is it real? Is that a lightsaber in the background(enter the photoshoppers and pixel junkies to enlarge that segment of the screenshot). IT IS A LIGHTSABRE!!! Debate ensues over what it is, and is not, people are frantic to know what it really is, June comes and everyone is frothing at the mouth for some new information. Enter the heros with a huge announcement.... ITS KoTOR <Online/III> Due out September <year>

See how that works?

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Old 11-20-2007, 01:35 PM   #9
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"DOW"

My bad !

Guess it was wishfull thinking ...


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Old 11-20-2007, 04:48 PM   #10
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The reviews of ME that I read...weren't as postive. Then again, I always read the negative reviews of games rather than the postive reviews, find out the faults and defects of the games, and see if I can enjoy them WITH its defects rather than not. The criticism of a game is more prized to me than its praises of greatness.

If the reports are true that Bioware recycles its story over and over, then I won't buy KOTOR3...as well as ME. So, likely, the KOTOR series is dead to me, shame.


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Old 11-21-2007, 02:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
I hope you're wrong. Not a MMO, please.
Well that's why I put the MMO and III in the brackets, to say that it may be either one.

Yeah sorry about any confusion regarding the "leaked" screenshot. It hasn't been leaked as of yet. Of course it could wait until March before the leak. Then June announcement. September of the release year, an announcement they are "Still polishing it up for release". November release....

I've seen a lot of games release.... Tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed this pattern...
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:15 AM   #12
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I've heard something like this before, from a guy who works at the local gamestop. He claims that certain releases are "test runs" for later games, with similar playstyles/themes. Some of his assertions are a little weird, but he did call the lucasarts/bioware partnership, and he thinks that Mass Effect is, in a sense, a test-run for a KotOR game on the Xbox 360.





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Old 11-21-2007, 10:57 PM   #13
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It is entirely possible. It would shave development time considerably. Rearrange the story, change the dialogue, reskin everyone, add sabres, it is entirely possible...

Oh and John, I see you use Ubuntu, are you exclusive to linux? I am, and kinda wondering how games are working out...
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:19 AM   #14
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Yeah, that's kind of what the guy said, especially when you consider some of the really weird weapons in some of the shooters for PS3 and 360. I think he mentioned Resistance: Fall of Man, but I could be mistaken.

sidenote: nah, I only use Ubuntu on my laptop--I just haven't updated my sig pictures since I got my gaming desktop finished a month or so ago. But I do use a windows emulator to play CS on my laptop, and it's actually more efficient than when the same laptop had XP or Vista on it. I still need a Mac.





Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. -Friedrich Nietzsche, Jenseits von Gut und Böse
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
He claims that certain releases are "test runs" for later games, with similar playstyles/themes. Some of his assertions are a little weird, but he did call the lucasarts/bioware partnership, and he thinks that Mass Effect is, in a sense, a test-run for a KotOR game on the Xbox 360.
That seems rather laughable to me (the latter part)...

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Old 11-22-2007, 02:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
That seems rather laughable to me (the latter part)...
Honestly, throw a lightsabre as a weapon, talk about Revan, change the NPC's to KOTOR guys and you have KOTOR III from mass effect. You can use the exact same engine for graphics and stuff and you'll get a gorgeous game. I really really really hope BioWare makes a SPRPG KOTOR III soon because after playing Mass Effect, a KOTOR on the 360 will be a triumphant release for the company.


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Old 11-22-2007, 06:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
Well that's why I put the MMO and III in the brackets, to say that it may be either one.

Yeah sorry about any confusion regarding the "leaked" screenshot. It hasn't been leaked as of yet. Of course it could wait until March before the leak. Then June announcement. September of the release year, an announcement they are "Still polishing it up for release". November release....

I've seen a lot of games release.... Tell me I'm not the only one who's noticed this pattern...
There was no confusion. Anyway, your scenario looks quite plausible. And yes, there's a pattern that works like that. However, I find hard to believe that Bioware's Mass Effect is a 'test' on the 360 for a future Kotor.


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Old 11-22-2007, 09:36 PM   #18
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Why would there be a KOTOR MMO when there is Star Wars Galaxies???
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralPloKoon
Why would there be a KOTOR MMO when there is Star Wars Galaxies???
Because SWG sucks.


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Old 11-22-2007, 11:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
Because SWG sucks.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Also, both Everquest and Everquest 2 are live still, so it doesn't really matter. If SoE wants to keep swg on life support, it sure can.

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Old 11-22-2007, 11:48 PM   #21
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I wouldnt be suprised at all if it was a MMO, yes I will end up in the hospital from a epillepsy and shock, plus a heart attack and burns on my hand from squishing my computer...but it wouldnt surprise me. A KOTOR MMO would be huge in the industry, the game is already primed (engine) for an mmo, they just need to tinker with the how to insert the story. SOE's license with SWG ends in 08/09 from what I've heard which is around the time people are expecting this mysterious game. SWG will still be around and SOE can still make fixes and such, but they cant say Han Solo went to Rori with Leia. Anyways its confusing.

To be honest I think they should make a KOTOR mmo AND a KOTOR III, but thats a bit unlikely.

I'd like both but as the story I think KOTOR III (non-mmo) would be good, I'd have the feel of accomplishing it instead of the mmo feel where u just do it for the reward and xp. However, a KOTOR mmo would still be great, just not as a way to finish the storyline.
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Old 11-23-2007, 12:31 AM   #22
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i'll hate bioware if they have an MMO about KOTOR, even if its a seperate game...
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Old 11-23-2007, 09:25 AM   #23
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I still have a hard time believing that Lucasarts would essentially kill Galaxies by putting another MMO up against it. I also have a hard time believing that Bioware would develop (and support) two MMOs...

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Old 11-23-2007, 11:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
I still have a hard time believing that Lucasarts would essentially kill Galaxies by putting another MMO up against it. I also have a hard time believing that Bioware would develop (and support) two MMOs...
Me too. Developing one MMO is hard enough, two is a bit too much, even for BioWare, to handle. Because the LA-BioWare project is listed seperately from the BioWare MMO, I think it's safe to say the LA-BioWare project is not an MMO, which only raises the chance of a Kotor3 (though I'd still rather have Obsidian for that job).
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:53 PM   #25
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They wouldnt really be killing SWG, most of the players playig that game now would end up playing both KOTOR and SWG, and if they could get SOE to "publish" or "co-publish" then they could be involved in the station pass allowing one monthly fee to play all SOE station pass games.

Even if they did kill SWG it wouldnt hurt them a ton, KOTOR would be a 1000x the money maker (considering they do it right) while SWg uses money and makes little (still a bit of a profit). Just look at how SOe made a EQ2 and a EQ, both are still very alive and are getting better.

You have to remember that KOTOR III, while great, would be aone time money maker, and a KOTOR MMO would be a 10year money maker because you pay for the initial game then a monthly fee (or yearly depending on which plan u choose).

I point to this link Here its an interesting read.

Thse parts are a bit of rumour poof...

"Such speculation was fueled further by the fact that lead designer James Ohlen performed the same duties on the original KOTOR, and several senior members of the studio worked on the Star Wars MMORPG Star Wars: Galaxies. Also, right around the time of the BioWare announcement, Star Wars license holder LucasArts confirmed that it was approached by developers about an all-new Star Wars MMORPG, but declined to elaborate. "

anyways, perhaps im just being hopefuly
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:09 PM   #26
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I would like MMO better than sprpg, why? Because like KotOR1 you get about 35h of entertainment(?) Good story and game but after you have played it through thats it.

My MMORPG experience is SWG and WoW so far but those offer entertainment for 6 months - 1 year. Alot more than sprpg
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
I still have a hard time believing that Lucasarts would essentially kill Galaxies by putting another MMO up against it.
I don't find it that hard to believe. They basically killed SWG in November '05 when they dumped the "New Game Enhancements" [NGE] on the players. With that surprise move coming some six months after the "combat upgrade rebalance" they lost some 200k+ subscribers. The game has been slowly pluggin along ever since. Last numbers I saw were under 50k subs....some have reported under 20k subs, but not sure I buy that as many people that still play the game have more then one account. Also I believe station pass holders are included in that number of active subs...but not positive.

Quote:
I also have a hard time believing that Bioware would develop (and support) two MMOs...
Yeah me too, especially since Bioware has never done one before, I seriously doubt they will enter the MMO market by doing two at one time.


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Because the LA-BioWare project is listed seperately from the BioWare MMO, I think it's safe to say the LA-BioWare project is not an MMO
That's not necessarily true. Word is, if Bioware is developing a SW mmo, they can't announcet it yet as SoE still has exclusive rights. I mean, if it is a single player kotor 3, why not just announce it is in development already? That's not going to take anything away from ME.....

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Old 11-23-2007, 06:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Darth_Pete
I would like MMO better than sprpg, why? Because like KotOR1 you get about 35h of entertainment(?) Good story and game but after you have played it through thats it.
WTF? There's a few ways to play that game trough, 4 of them.....4 times 40 hours is 160 hours of gameplay......are you kidding, how is that not enough of a game?? Especially if they make it like Mass Effect where each different class has a different ability and actually would be useful, where the game is different each class you play. There's 3 classes, so that's another 3 ways to play the game, and that's 7 times, 40 hours, that's 280 hours of game play.....seriously, how can you get bored of a SPRPG I'll never know. Get another game after 280 hours.


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Old 11-23-2007, 07:23 PM   #29
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Yeah me too, especially since Bioware has never done one before, I seriously doubt they will enter the MMO market by doing two at one time.
Totally agree with that. I'm hoping that Bioware has rethought its position on Kotor 3, if it ever truly ever held it, and is going to make it. Aside from Obsidian, it would be the best to do it, and it would be the best time. However, we don't know that they are doing two different MMOs; they could have left it separate on purpose...

I'm actually going to be talking to Drew Karpysyn (again) in December hopefully. When I do I plan on asking him some questions about this new site and partnership.


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Old 11-24-2007, 06:45 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Darth_Pete
I would like MMO better than sprpg, why? Because like KotOR1 you get about 35h of entertainment(?) Good story and game but after you have played it through thats it.

My MMORPG experience is SWG and WoW so far but those offer entertainment for 6 months - 1 year. Alot more than sprpg
Oh really?

From my days on SWG and my free trial of WoW, I've had, oh maybe 3 hours of entertainment, becuase most of my other hours were spent either being annoyed by 10 year olds who didn't understand Roleplaying so they spam me, lagging, taking boring quests with a horribly cliche and pointless story...

now in both NWN1-2 and kotor1-2 I currently have 8 months of fun and still going,plus I'm going to get MotB so that adds at least another 4 months of play.
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Old 11-24-2007, 08:52 PM   #31
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First off, I can see Lucasarts killing SWG, because it has never even reached their expected numbers. Even at its height the numbers never reached 400k. There were many reasons for this.

1) initially no space. It was later added as an expansion, then rolled in with the "starter kit"
2) Initially no jedi. At first it was not possible, then extremely difficult, then relatively easy, then click JEDI!!!!!111
3) MASSIVE bugs. There were huge bugs. They added more bugs with each publish, then they revamped, added more glaring bugs, then the NGE occured. In my opinion the biggest bug they introduced into the game.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leemu Taos
I don't find it that hard to believe. They basically killed SWG in November '05 when they dumped the "New Game Enhancements" [NGE] on the players. With that surprise move coming some six months after the "combat upgrade rebalance" they lost some 200k+ subscribers. The game has been slowly pluggin along ever since. Last numbers I saw were under 50k subs....some have reported under 20k subs, but not sure I buy that as many people that still play the game have more then one account. Also I believe station pass holders are included in that number of active subs...but not positive.
I understand the problems that Galaxies has had, but that doesn't change the fact that LA has a MMO in place. Plus, they are not the only controlling stakeholders. I believe that Sony is also involved and is making money from it. I would guess that they would not be keen on LA pulling out and going with another developer and leaving them out in the cold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leemu Taos
That's not necessarily true. Word is, if Bioware is developing a SW mmo, they can't announcet it yet as SoE still has exclusive rights. I mean, if it is a single player kotor 3, why not just announce it is in development already? That's not going to take anything away from ME.....
But since in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter when they might announce K3 (and if the Bioware/LA agreement is truly as recent as the announcement idicates, it is very early in development), why would they take any attention away from ME?

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Originally Posted by Tommycat
First off, I can see Lucasarts killing SWG, because it has never even reached their expected numbers. Even at its height the numbers never reached 400k. There were many reasons for this.
But LA isn't the only decision maker here, so they can't just pull the plug on their own accord as far as I can tell. SOE would be up in arms, I would imagine.

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Old 11-26-2007, 12:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Prime
I understand the problems that Galaxies has had, but that doesn't change the fact that LA has a MMO in place. Plus, they are not the only controlling stakeholders. I believe that Sony is also involved and is making money from it. I would guess that they would not be keen on LA pulling out and going with another developer and leaving them out in the cold.
Oh I agree, I imagine they will continue the game on "life support" for the forseable future. I'm not saying they should simply shut it down now, just that I could see it happening. After all, other SoE titlse Planetside and Matrix online [MxO] are still going along with very few subscribers. Who knows, maybe even GL himself will get tired of seeing SWG in its current state and decide to pull the plug lol. The station pass is what keeps all of these games going IMO.

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But since in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter when they might announce K3 (and if the Bioware/LA agreement is truly as recent as the announcement idicates, it is very early in development), why would they take any attention away from ME?
Well that is my point really, if it was Knights 3, why not announce it now? It wouldn't take anything away from ME. If it's a sw mmo, I imagine they have to wait for the soe exclusive license to expire before announcing it. There are a lot of people on the edge of their seat waiting to hear what will come of this partnership.

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But LA isn't the only decision maker here, so they can't just pull the plug on their own accord as far as I can tell. SOE would be up in arms, I would imagine.
Oh yeah, they are still making money on it, so they wouldn't be too happy.

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Old 11-26-2007, 05:59 PM   #34
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Well that is my point really, if it was Knights 3, why not announce it now? It wouldn't take anything away from ME. If it's a sw mmo, I imagine they have to wait for the soe exclusive license to expire before announcing it. There are a lot of people on the edge of their seat waiting to hear what will come of this partnership.
Well, considering all the people waiting for Kotor III, I imagine there would be some attention taken away from ME if they announced it now. They might announce it a little later, but I doubt it. I'm really unsure that they're really seriously thinking about KIII right now (or any time soon)... because of the absolute lack of any kind of rumors - much less news - surrounding the Kotor series.

What I'm thinking is that, since they are hinting about some kind of MMO project, it is either World of Kotor or something totally un-Star Wars related. If its the latter, well, K3 is pretty much hosed right now. If its the former, well, K3 is still pretty much hosed right now. But then, I dunno; maybe they are planning to make the Kotor MMO, and then go ahead and finish the series, so the MMO is set some time between TSL and K3, and then gamers can go get K3 to end the series or something.

Just speculation. I really don't know if the info I'm going on is even valid. With the very few Kotor rumors going around, its hard to tell. (sidenote: has anybody else read the thing about Pandera and LA somehow teaming up to do something KotOR related? I can't remember where I saw that... probably a baseless rumor, though)

Oh, and, in closing: while I would love K3 to look somewhat like ME, don't change the combat system in any way, unless in just minor tweaks. Not that I don't like ME's combat system, but Kotor should stay the way it is. Certainly I don't want all the bugs ME has in there.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:45 PM   #35
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I understand the problems that Galaxies has had, but that doesn't change the fact that LA has a MMO in place. Plus, they are not the only controlling stakeholders. I believe that Sony is also involved and is making money from it. I would guess that they would not be keen on LA pulling out and going with another developer and leaving them out in the cold.

But since in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter when they might announce K3 (and if the Bioware/LA agreement is truly as recent as the announcement idicates, it is very early in development), why would they take any attention away from ME?

But LA isn't the only decision maker here, so they can't just pull the plug on their own accord as far as I can tell. SOE would be up in arms, I would imagine.
The way I see it, giving the players another choice in the MMO market for a Star Wars game would effectively kill SWG. That's what I mean by that. At any rate, LucasArts has the control of the IP. IF they refuse to allow SOE to continue using it, then they are stuck with merely bug fixes and adjustments to the game as it exists. No new expansions, no new content, just a basic bland game with no creative content added... wait... Nevermind....

Just because LA wouldn't continue its IP agreement with SOE does not mean that SOE loses Galaxies. It just means that SOE won't have exclusive rights to a SW MMO. Of course as the owner of the IP LA could hit SOE with a C&D order and force them to shut down SWG(Acronyms FTW). I doubt they would go that far, unless Bioware had redeveloped SWG and LA was happy about the new development stragegy.

It is entirely possible that the reason Bioware is being quiet about their MMO is that they cannot release that info until SOE's lease on the SW IP is up. Once SOE's lease on the SW IP is up then Bioware can announce the MMO. That is of course assuming the MMO's non-bioware IP is SW:KotOR-online... (more acronyms.... Whew!). For all we know the MMO might be an EA owned IP<shudders> which would make sense as to why EA is so excited about it.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:45 AM   #36
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Who knows, maybe even GL himself will get tired of seeing SWG in its current state and decide to pull the plug lol.
I wonder if GL even knows about Galaxies.

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Well that is my point really, if it was Knights 3, why not announce it now? It wouldn't take anything away from ME.
I think it would. Right now the focus on Bioware has pretty much everything to do with ME. The vast majority of the activity on their boards relates to ME right now. That is what Bioware wants because the focus means hype. I don't think they want to dig into that by shifting focus away from ME.

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At any rate, LucasArts has the control of the IP. IF they refuse to allow SOE to continue using it, then they are stuck with merely bug fixes and adjustments to the game as it exists.
They would never be able to do that because of all the contractual agreements in place.

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Old 11-27-2007, 11:32 PM   #37
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Is there some compelling reason to think that the contractual relationship that exists between LucasArts and Sony Online Entertainment is exclusive for more than 3-5 years? Given the performance of SWG SOE certainly doesn't appear to have earned the right to retain exclusivity for a SW MMOG. If I were in LucasArts shoes I would let SOE continue with SWG but once the exclusive period had been fulfilled I would look at developing a new SW MMORPG with another company because at this point I think SWG has so much negative baggage that it will never recover, no matter how much SWG is improved.

I guess I just don't get why there are so many who think that there couldn't be more than one Star Wars MMOG. I still believe we'll get a SW MMORPG out of the LucasArts/BioWare project and if it's based in the KotOR time period or any other time period before or after the movies then I see no reason why it couldn't co-exist with SWG. And if SWG ends up dropping to an unsustainable number of subscriptions with another SW MMORPG in play then LA and SOE can decide it's time to pull the plug on SWG. But if not then SWG can keep on rolling.


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Old 11-28-2007, 01:02 AM   #38
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I wonder if GL even knows about Galaxies.
If he did, he would have shut it down already haha

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They would never be able to do that because of all the contractual agreements in place.
Really depends on how the contract is worded. Not to mention I have never seen a contract that would be so ironclad as to be inescapable. Lets face it, IF Lucasarts wanted out, they could demand a full disclosure of peak usage, and if the numbers don't add up I'm sure there's an escape clause. I highly doubt LA would allow it to go on forever and damage the SW brand. Sadly Galaxies has already done quite a bit of damage to the idea of a SW MMO.*


*That is not to say that Galaxies isn't a fun game, or that the game itself is worthless, merely the level of trust involved with the SW game.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:45 AM   #39
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Mass Effect is seriously awesome, so I'm pumped for a potential KOTOR III!!!


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Old 12-10-2007, 08:16 PM   #40
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i dont know about a KOTOR mmo. personally i hate mmo's with a burning passion, but perhaps they could make like diablo 2. with both a sp mode and a multiplayer mode


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