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Old 05-01-2008, 04:52 PM   #41
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I think there was something about mutiple endings said near when it was first reveled but im not sure if its been scraped or not
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Old 05-03-2008, 02:09 AM   #42
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Old 05-03-2008, 12:41 PM   #43
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Talking about heroes and anti-heroes, anyone else develop an instant dislike of Shaak Ti after finding out she survived? Probably something about running away from the temple and leaving all those kids to die.....
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Old 05-03-2008, 12:52 PM   #44
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It's certainly not her fault.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:13 AM   #45
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Temple got attacked and she ran away. Big hero.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:02 PM   #46
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Yeah I'm with Henz on this one. Maybe we'll find out more during TFU, but based on what we know so far, she seems like a coward for fleeing the temple and leaving the younglings defenseless against Vader.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookieepedia
As the Jedi Temple's commander and defender,[1] Shaak Ti was present during the fall of the Jedi Temple, during which Darth Vader himself set out to kill the Jedi Master. Knowing she would not be able to defeat Skywalker and the 501st Legion, she fled Coruscant and went into self-imposed exile on Felucia, where fellow Jedi Knights Aayla Secura and Bariss Offee were shot down. Some time later she met Jedi Maris Brood, who was bent on revenge against Vader. Shaak Ti convinced her to go into hiding on the planet Felucia, where she was training the Force sensitive natives for an eventual conflict with Vader and his secret apprentice.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:03 PM   #47
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What was she supposed to do otherwise? Die heroically but stupidly?

Now she can spread (and judging buy the teaser screens she does it very well) her knowledge of the Force and keep the Order alive. Kruhk did the same, for 'Dark Times' readers, although he DID save younglings.

But saying she's a 'real hero' would mean Obi-Wan and Yoda were real heroes too! They fled the Temple as well, and Yoda even ran away from Palpatine. Although they weren't there wen the real order 66 occured, they certainly didn't try to secure the temple, bury the dead or anything 'hero-like.'

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Old 05-04-2008, 01:37 PM   #48
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Ditto.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
What was she supposed to do otherwise? Die heroically but stupidly?
Was it a guarantee she was going to lose? Was she not a renowned and battle-tested Jedi Master? It seems cowardly for a Jedi Master to run away from a fight, especially when it results in the inevitable deaths of all of the younglings. For someone worried about spreading her teaching/knowlege of the force, you would think the lives of the younglings would matter to her enough to try and protect them.
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:05 PM   #50
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Ehm...I think you are mixing some canon material up here....

Example:

Ki Adi Mundi deflected 2-3 blaster bolts before dying. And he's a high council member. Obi-Wan Kenobi survived Order 66 by sheer luck. Quinlan Vos was mortally wounded.
And this was against teams of 3-4 Clone Troopers. A Jedi has a maximum of blaster bolts he/she can deflect. Did you see the mass of soldiers PLUS Darth Vader enetering the temple? There is NOTHING to gain against that army.

Suppose the Temple is a big place. Who says she didn't try to fight her way through a few waves but was simply too late? Remember, the one who actually KILLED the younglings was DARTH VADER. Brought to their chambers by at least a platoon of troopers. A Sith Lord and an army? Good luck with your little laser sword. No Yoda or Luke would have made it.

In the comics and cartoons, Jedi can deflect a million blaster bolts. In the movies (which are higher in canon) they can't. And we are talking movies here, where people die when gunned at by 10 troopers. Anyone would.

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Old 05-04-2008, 04:14 PM   #51
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That is in agreement with my original statement - that I'd wait for additional material in TFU before making judgment, but at this point it seems cowardly. It's possible that the younglings were killed by Vader before Shaak Ti could have possibly gotten to them to help. At this point we don't know. But from what I read on wookieepedia it sounds like she just resigned and let the younglings be executed without offering any type of help whatsoever. Even the youngling that ran out on the landing pad when Bail Organa showed up gave a fight (I think that kid was related to Lucas somehow, if I remember right).

Anyway, I didn't mix up any canon, as you suggested. All I said is that it wasn't guaranteed she would die. Perhaps she could have defeated Vader and helped some younglings escape. She obviously knew some way out of there since she was able to escape herself.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:54 AM   #52
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Ztalker said this:




The two I bolded are the ones that look exactly like the one from the 'evolution' toy set. So it means there is at least an Evil and a good ending.
Quote:
1. Apprentice (Bounty Hunter Disguise)
2. Apprentice (Corellian Flight Suit)
3. Apprentice (Father's Robes)
4. Apprentice (Light Training Gear)
5. Apprentice (Training Gear)
6. Apprentice (Raxus Prime Survival Gear)
7. Apprentice (Sith Robes)
8. Apprentice (Jungle Combat Gear)
9. Apprentice (Industrial Explorer Outfit)
10. Ultimate Good
11. Qui-Gon Jinn
12. Obi-Wan Kenobi
13. Anakin Skywalker
14. Darth Vader
15. Luke Skywalker (from Episode IV)
16. Luke Skywalker (from Episode VI)
17. Mace Windu
18. Ultimate Evil
19. Shaak Ti
20. Darth Maul
21. Count Dooku
22. Asajj Ventress
23. Master Rahm Kota
24. Aayla Secura
25. Mara Jade
26. Darth Phobos
27. Maris Brood


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When all is said and done, too many people keep on saying and doing.
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #53
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Sweet selection of characters! do we know if Multiplayer is on 360? I'm a bit behind on news just lately


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Old 05-06-2008, 08:45 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter
Was it a guarantee she was going to lose? Was she not a renowned and battle-tested Jedi Master? It seems cowardly for a Jedi Master to run away from a fight, especially when it results in the inevitable deaths of all of the younglings. For someone worried about spreading her teaching/knowlege of the force, you would think the lives of the younglings would matter to her enough to try and protect them.
She definitely would have been killed, she may have put up a fight though. Anakin was the prophesized "chosen one", and was the reason Palpatine set him up to become his apprentice in the first place, Vader wasn't ever "beaten" until Episode VI by his own son, but even then Anakin left the darkside.


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Old 05-06-2008, 09:12 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Sharrak
She definitely would have been killed, she may have put up a fight though. Anakin was the prophesized "chosen one", and was the reason Palpatine set him up to become his apprentice in the first place, Vader wasn't ever "beaten" until Episode VI by his own son, but even then Anakin left the darkside.
Knowing what we know as movie-watchers, we know Vader would have defeated Shaak Ti. We also knew Sidious would somehow defeat Mace Windu. Does that mean Windu's character should not have confronted Sidious? Your point is moot. Shaak Ti didn't know Vader would defeat her, and she's a Jedi Master that should not have been afraid to confront him.

Again, maybe she didn't even have the chance to, but knowing what we know about it at this point, she should have tried to defeat Vader and help some of the younglings escape as she did.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
Sweet selection of characters! do we know if Multiplayer is on 360? I'm a bit behind on news just lately
Bad news for us 360ers. IIRC, there was something about the multiplayer being restricted to the Wii version. At least the Duel Mode is.


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Old 05-07-2008, 01:08 AM   #57
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Maybe... just maybe... there would be online multiplayer for 360?
As for PS3, its a console designed for people playing alone with no friends... stupid $ony.
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:49 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
What was she supposed to do otherwise? Die heroically but stupidly?
Yes absolutely. Or, she could at least use her fabled cunning to get some kids out with her.

We'll see just how the context is before I make any solid judgements of course; but at this point in time I find her a very unlikable character.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:22 PM   #59
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maybe she did...
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:34 PM   #60
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Quote:
Yes absolutely.
Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:06 PM   #61
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Plus, do or do not. There is no try.

So 'trying' to save the younglings would go against Yoda directly!

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Old 05-07-2008, 07:08 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.
Do something that's impossible? She escaped - why couldn't she have helped some younglings escape? Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible. That's why I said from the beginning that I'd wait to make judgment until we found out more (hopefully in TFU), but from what we currently know, she acted cowardly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
Plus, do or do not. There is no try.

So 'trying' to save the younglings would go against Yoda directly
Then don't try to save the younglings - just save them
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter
Do something that's impossible? She escaped - why couldn't she have helped some younglings escape? Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.
Because if she tried to escape with some of the kids, she'd be leaving others behind to die, and I doubt she could have gotten far with them anyways, before being killed.

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Old 05-07-2008, 09:54 PM   #64
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Quote:
but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.
I fail to see how you're making any less of a leap by saying that it was possible.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:33 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
I fail to see how you're making any less of a leap by saying that it was possible.
I suppose that's because you misread and/or misinterpreted my post. I didn't assert it was possible. I said, several times now, that I'd wait for more information to make judgment, but at this point in time based on what we know right now, it appears as if her act was cowardly.

Did you fail to notice the first 2/3 of that sentence? In case you did, here it is again:
Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:56 AM   #66
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No, we guess by seeing she's alive.

Stronger and better masters died because of order 66. They wiped out an entire temple of Jedi. If she would have fought, I'd say there is a 90% chance of getting killed. And she's alive. So, imo, she hasn't faced the troopers or Vader.

Because, let's face it. In a realistic, not-cartoon Star Wars game, you die after an X number of hits. You can't go Cartoon Network style Clone Wars and survive an army of a million troopers, for example.
And since TFU puts it realistically (troopers die with 1 slash) I guess the probability of her fleeing is more likely then fighting.

If it was a Clone Wars Cartoon game, or Lego game, it would be the other way around

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Old 05-08-2008, 01:03 PM   #67
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Quote:
I suppose that's because you misread and/or misinterpreted my post. I didn't assert it was possible. I said, several times now, that I'd wait for more information to make judgment, but at this point in time based on what we know right now, it appears as if her act was cowardly.

Did you fail to notice the first 2/3 of that sentence? In case you did, here it is again:
Perhaps she couldn't - we don't know - but you are making a leap by assuming it was impossible.
Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it was possible.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:02 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
Your entire argument is based on the assumption that it was possible.
Incorrect. My entire argument was based on the fact that we don't know, but based on what we do know, it could be possible and she did act like a coward.

Do you not agree that it's much more of a leap to assume it was impossible? Probably not, so this conversation is pointless.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:24 PM   #69
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Incorrect. My entire argument was based on the fact that we don't know
At this point, you switch your position entirely.

Quote:
Do you not agree that it's much more of a leap to assume it was impossible?
Considering the fact that the individual in question is as of now (to my knowledge) the only Jedi whatsoever to escape the attack on the temple, I can't see how it is a leap. There's also the obvious difficulties in finding and escorting any amount of younglings away from the Temple while being attacked by a gigantic army. Then, there's the matter of avoiding the numerous patrols of clone troopers that constantly guard the buildings around, avoiding being obliterated by the gunships and Star Destroyers, that surround the Temple, and so on. I'd consider it an almost insurmountably impressive accomplishment for a single person to escape the attack and then the planet, let alone escorting another person off-planet.

Quote:
Probably not, so this conversation is pointless.
Vae victis.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:54 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
Vae victis.
I'm glad you feel good about yourself or have some sense of accomplishment, but my comments were more of an indictment to your line or reasoning than a resignation.

Perhaps I am lacking information regarding her escape - or maybe you are assuming again - but does anyone know exactly how she escaped? I really don't know, so please, if you do, educate me. Did she hide out and wait for the invasion to end and then slip out? Did she know some secret exit? I would think knowing that information would be fairly important when assessing whether or not she's vindicated from any judgment about her actions (or inactions, rather). Since I don't know that information, it has (in every one of my posts) been my contention that I would reserve judgment until I do know. For whatever reason you seem to ignore that part of my statements. That's why this conversation is pointless, but if it makes you feel some sort of accomplishment or achievement, feel free to continue doing so.
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:44 PM   #71
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If you wanna go by what Wookieepedia says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookieepedia
Shaak Ti was selected to safeguard the Jedi Temple while Mace Windu took a group of Jedi Masters to arrest the Supreme Chancellor. Although she possessed considerable fighting prowess, Shaak Ti was chosen to stay at the Jedi Temple to organize the Jedi Temple's defenses. Moments before the Great Jedi Purge, Ti encountered Anakin Skywalker, whom she believed was on his way to the Chancellor's office to help Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin in the arrest. She tried to stop him from leaving, but the young Knight was persistent, saying he was the Chosen One, and it was his duty to be present.

As the Jedi Temple's commander and defender,[1] Shaak Ti was present during the fall of the Jedi Temple, during which Darth Vader himself set out to kill the Jedi Master. Knowing she would not be able to defeat Skywalker and the 501st Legion, she fled Coruscant and went into self-imposed exile on Felucia, where fellow Jedi Knights Aayla Secura and Bariss Offee were shot down. Some time later she met Jedi Maris Brood, who was bent on revenge against Vader. Shaak Ti convinced her to go into hiding on the planet Felucia, where she was training the Force sensitive natives for an eventual conflict with Vader and his secret apprentice.
Whether or not you want to call that cowardice or intelligence, I think, depends on how exactly you define the word.

The article doesn't give sources, though, unfortunately. The "[1]" up above links to Shaak Ti in the Databank, but the Databank entry hasn't been updated for TFU and still says "Shaak Ti was believed to be killed in the onslaught."


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Old 05-09-2008, 09:16 AM   #72
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The way I interpret that is she was at the Temple entrance, most likely, and just fled when Vader and the 501st Legion arrived. Perhaps she didn't have the chance to save the younglings then. If that's the case, I don't believe it was cowardice, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth nonetheless.

I wonder why Vader couldn't off Shaak-Ti right there? How did she get past Vader and the 501st Legion?
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:41 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKA-001
Yes, it's much better to die trying to do something that's impossible rather than to escape and do good later.
Yes it is much better to die trying to save children than to leave them to die for the greater good.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:04 PM   #74
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Evidently "the greater good" does not actually mean "good" at all.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:08 PM   #75
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I was also trying to think of another way to justify Shaak Ti's actions... The Jedi are often/usually loyal to their mandate from the council to a fault. For example, Qui-Gon first refused to try to free Anakin and his mother from slavery during TPM, because they "were not sent to free slaves", even though it was the right thing to do. Obi-Wan also chastises Anakin during AOTC when he over-steps the council's mandate and tells Padme that they will find who is attempting to assassinate her, instead of just protecting her.

However, Shaak Ti doesn't even fall into this category, since her mandate was to protect the Jedi Temple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookieepedia
Shaak Ti was selected to safeguard the Jedi Temple while Mace Windu took a group of Jedi Masters to arrest the Supreme Chancellor.
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Old 05-10-2008, 07:02 PM   #76
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Perhaps she is out at the 7-11 accross the street for her smokes when the temple gets stormed, or something like that.
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Old 05-10-2008, 11:32 PM   #77
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I did hear somewhere that she smokes like a chimney.


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Old 05-11-2008, 11:35 PM   #78
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Maybe her actions in TFU will be enough to redeem her in the eyes of all us fans. Funny, this thread was originally about somebody else being redeemed...


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Old 05-11-2008, 11:38 PM   #79
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Ha - yeah I was thinking about that earlier (someone else being redeemed). I agree though - perhaps we will learn more about her escape that will redeem her in my eyes... that's why I always stated that I will reserve judgment until I know more.


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Old 08-20-2008, 04:19 PM   #80
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light side is probably the canon ending, because the emperor kills him in the novel.
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