lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Charisma makes you a better Force User...why?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 03-09-2008, 01:28 AM   #1
SilentScope001
May The Force Serve You.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,236
Charisma makes you a better Force User...why?

You got Charisma, and it does two things:
-Make it easier to persuade other people to do your bidding
-Decrease how many Force Points you need to use any Force Power, LS or DS.

I can understand the former. Not the latter. So, guys, come up with a good RP justification. Please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
SilentScope001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 01:33 AM   #2
Rev7
I'm a Mage
 
Rev7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,208
Current Game: CoD 5 WaW; Skate 2
Helpful! 
Well, umm, difficult question...but I will try to tackle it...:

Umm, maybe charisma gives you wisdom into the force, therefore making it easier to manipulate? Or gives you wisdom on what the most effecient way to use a certain technique? That's about all that I got...

Rev7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 01:35 AM   #3
Bee Hoon
ngom ngom ngom
 
Bee Hoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,268
Forum Veteran Veteran Fan Fic Author LFN Staff Member Helpful! 
Because KotOR is loosely based on DnD :P



The sun goes down and the sky reddens, pain grows sharp.
light dwindles. Then is evening
when jasmine flowers open, the deluded say.
But evening is the great brightening dawn
when crested cocks crow all through the tall city
and evening is the whole day
for those without their lovers

-Kuruntokai 234, translated by A.K. Ramanujan

[Fic] Shreds of a Dying Belief
Bee Hoon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 06:00 AM   #4
Balderdash
Rookie
 
Balderdash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Cage
Posts: 247
^ Winner. Charisma has never made sense as a stat, ever.


...
Balderdash is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 06:49 AM   #5
Ztalker
Saving the world casually
 
Ztalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Normandy SR-2
Posts: 2,780
Forum Veteran 
Ehm...ehm...example:

Not Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi: "Dang...he knows..."

Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi:*bliks teeth and sticks thumb up*
Master: "No, your charisma convinced me otherwise...

Imo, Charisma is also the looks. If you don't look particular DS or LS it seems you can use both sides easier as well.

Ztalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 07:58 AM   #6
stoffe
Network Caretaker
 
stoffe's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,833
Helpful! 10 year veteran! Notable contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
You got Charisma, and it does two things:
-Make it easier to persuade other people to do your bidding
-Decrease how many Force Points you need to use any Force Power, LS or DS.

I can understand the former. Not the latter. So, guys, come up with a good RP justification. Please?
Charisma is a measure of willpower and force of personality in d20. So presumably you'll have a better ability to shape and command the Force if you are strong willed.

stoffe is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 11:30 AM   #7
tk102
Well past expiration date
 
tk102's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,766
Current Game: Fallout 2
Forum Veteran Helpful! Notable contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Charisma is a measure of willpower and force of personality in d20. So presumably you'll have a better ability to shape and command the Force if you are strong willed.
Re: Force of personality
I've always understood charisma to be applied in interpersonal situations in order to improve a character's ability to coerce, convice, entice, seduce, intimidate, etc. someone else. After all, what is a personality if there no other person around?

Re: measure of willpower
Meanwhile willpower is a mental or spiritual fortitude and is completely intrapersonal. Note that your Will saves only get bonuses from you Wisdom modifier, not your Charisma modifier.

If Charisma is an interpersonal statistic, it should have no place in influencing an impersonal Force. Wisdom should be the only statistic used.


tk102 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 12:43 PM   #8
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk102
If Charisma is an interpersonal statistic, it should have no place in influencing an impersonal Force. Wisdom should be the only statistic used.
Or decrease the Force Points of just the Powers that affect a third-party.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 11:38 PM   #9
tk102
Well past expiration date
 
tk102's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,766
Current Game: Fallout 2
Forum Veteran Helpful! Notable contributor 
Cortosis weave discussion split to this thread.


tk102 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 11:38 PM   #10
stoffe
Network Caretaker
 
stoffe's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,833
Helpful! 10 year veteran! Notable contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk102
Re: Force of personality
I've always understood charisma to be applied in interpersonal situations in order to improve a character's ability to coerce, convice, entice, seduce, intimidate, etc. someone else. After all, what is a personality if there no other person around?
Not in the d20 system. Branch out a bit from d20 Starwars to d20 D&D. There you have Charisma as the governing attribute of sorcerers and warlocks, characters who can wield magic intuitively through force of will, rather than methodical study and ritual.

I'd imagine it works somewhat similarly in the d20 Starwars setting with its "magic", the Force.

stoffe is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-09-2008, 11:56 PM   #11
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
A lot of Force powers affect people--manipulating them, stunning them, turning them insane, holding them in stasis, healing them, buffing with resistances, etc. So, having a higher Charisma makes sense when you're using a Force power that has an effect on people. Granted, some of the powers don't have effects on people, but it's easier for game mechanics to have just one stat to keep track of.

If someone's writing a fic or RP about it, it's kind of moot, because that's all background number-crunching that really doesn't have an effect on the story itself--I'm never going to write "Jolee leveled up, boosting his Wis and Cha to 22, so now he can wipe out an entire platoon with a single thought of Force Wave if he rolls anything above 1."


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-10-2008, 01:23 AM   #12
tk102
Well past expiration date
 
tk102's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,766
Current Game: Fallout 2
Forum Veteran Helpful! Notable contributor 
But Jae, said fic would be awesome.

Re d20: I guess I'm still stuck on 1st ed rules. No warlocks or sorcerors. Charisma is for bards and paladins. Bards are in the appendix.


tk102 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-10-2008, 03:37 AM   #13
Tommycat
>^..^<
 
Tommycat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,577
Current Game: Real Life 1.0(BETA)
Forum Veteran 
I would think it is simple:

Since the force is a living thing, manipulation of that living thing is easier when you have that special trait which makes you more persuasive.
Tommycat is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-10-2008, 10:19 AM   #14
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Well, in the D20 DnD it basically goes:
Int:
Magic Thingy you can study for, like the bookworm type of mages. Study spells, learn new stuff thru reading and research and etc.

Wis:
Magic thingy you got from some higher power. Do some rituals, rules of your own belief system etc... oh and they wear armor just as well as the average joe.

Cha:
Magic thingy that comes naturally from your oen enlightenment and not studied for.

Well, since Int would not make sense when it comes to most force powers it would just be a choice of Wis or Cha. Personally I think Wis would be a reasonable choice as well, but I guess Cha is used cause it is much mroe balanced. Since Jedi already got the Wis to AC(defence) bonus from the Monks then linking force points to Wis would just result in massive Wis pumping. Now at least Cha would not be a dump stat.
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-11-2008, 07:11 PM   #15
Clone L68362
Forumite
 
Clone L68362's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Totally lost
Posts: 554
Simple answer - to make it more useful.


My sig is stupid.
Clone L68362 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-11-2008, 08:13 PM   #16
Jvstice
Junior Member
 
Jvstice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 382
Tommy: Exactly what I was thinking to write... Qui Gonn Jinn was convinced that the force had a mind and a will of it's own, and saw himself as a servant of the will of the force. He and Ben Kenobi discussed this. It would seem to be evidence they were right..

Poiuy: definitely balance is definitely a big factor.


"If force is the game, the murderer wins over the pickpocket." Ayn Rand

"Justice is the midpoint between being treated unjustly, and treating others unjustly." Aristotle
Jvstice is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-16-2008, 04:42 PM   #17
Alexander the Great
Junior Member
 
Alexander the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sam's Town
Posts: 371
Gives you more willpower and determination and all that junk, which adds to your mental state, which makes your Force powers more efficient.


"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." - Albert Einstein

Alexander the Great is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-16-2008, 05:24 PM   #18
JCarter426
Senior Member
 
JCarter426's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Look to your left.
Posts: 1,635
I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.


JCarter426 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-16-2008, 05:25 PM   #19
Jvstice
Junior Member
 
Jvstice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 382
yes. that is true.


"If force is the game, the murderer wins over the pickpocket." Ayn Rand

"Justice is the midpoint between being treated unjustly, and treating others unjustly." Aristotle
Jvstice is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-16-2008, 06:07 PM   #20
Alexander the Great
Junior Member
 
Alexander the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sam's Town
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.
I'm not talking about the stats. I'm talking about charisma exclusively, and willpower abstractly.


"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school." - Albert Einstein

Alexander the Great is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-17-2008, 12:47 AM   #21
PoiuyWired
Unregistered User
 
PoiuyWired's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
I'm pretty sure it's Wisdom, not Charisma, that increases Will.
Yup its Con-> Fort, Dex->Reflex, Wiz-> Will.

And really, seeing all the ancient sithlords with big armor and stuff, coupled with the fact that the force has a will on its own, it would make way more sense to use Wiz. So its just balancing.

I mean, currently:
Wiz: gives you Will Saves, AC bonus(Jedi, monk style).
Dex: still a way to get AC, oh and reflex saves.
Cha: The traditional dump stat, esp when there are only a few spor where Cha bonus is used rather than the lightsaber, so a bit of force related bonus is needed. But yes, if you still want to go hack n slash style then even that bit of fun can be ignored.

Though I personally like characters with higher cha, to pick up barmaids and what not and other fun stuff.
PoiuyWired is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-08-2008, 08:44 PM   #22
Gothic90
Rookie
 
Gothic90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
First thing...Charisma is a very, very useful stat.
It not only increases Persuade check & decreases Force power alignment penalty
but it also increases the attack bonus of your teammates...your ability to influence them
and most importantly, it affects the Difficulty class of your force powers in the same way as your Wisdom does.

If wisdom shows how well you master your force powers, charisma shows how well you command your force powers.
Gothic90 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-08-2008, 10:38 PM   #23
Sabretooth
鬼龍院皐月
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker
Ehm...ehm...example:

Not Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi: "Dang...he knows..."

Charisma Jedi:
Master: "Did you just KILL that innocent civilian with Force Lightning?! You are Sith!"
Jedi:*bliks teeth and sticks thumb up*
Master: "No, your charisma convinced me otherwise...


If you ask me, the game developers prolly envisioned the Force like Kreia - an insidious deity seeking absolute balance. So if you're charismatic and sexy, you can probably convince the Force to be on your side and help you out.

The transition to this philosophy of the Force is equivalent to what a child goes through on the day he learns Santa Claus isn't real.


Sabretooth is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-08-2008, 07:57 PM   #24
MaceLyden
Rookie
 
MaceLyden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 18
ok. it uses charisma for that, because the game is based off of DnD, and in DnD Charisma is needed to be a good magic wielder. Secondly, Charisma is your negotiating skills and your tool to manipulate things to do your bidding. Therefore, you are, (in a matter of speaking), persuading the force into letting you use a power that is otherwise harder for you to use. you are getting past the rules through means of negotiation, persuasion, and manipulation of the rules themselves.
MaceLyden is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-09-2008, 02:29 AM   #25
Gavroche
Rookie
 
Gavroche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: France
Posts: 220
Well, if Charisma allows you to persuade people, it could also work the other way round. Meaning that it prevents you from being influenced, as your personality is more prevailing. So if you have a weak "personality", using Force powers "influences" you and tires you (= more FP spent), while with a strong one you are not dominated by the Force. I guess that joins Kreia's vision of the Force.



In Soviet Russia, Force Powers Uses YOU!! :P


"Do you think I seek the death of all living things? There is no victory in such things.
I do not want to win our war like this, little Jedi. When I win, I wish it to be because I was right, my teachings true.
"
- Kreia, Jedi Master, Sith Lord
Gavroche is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-17-2008, 07:18 PM   #26
ForeverNight
nrgurt researcher
 
ForeverNight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,204
Current Game: q2
<---Spending too much time on Communism on uncyclopedia.com?

Well, that explanation makes a lot of sense actually. In AD&D 2.0, I know that your Charisma does nothing, nada, to your magic, it just adjusts your max henchmen, their base loyalty to you, and your reaction adjustment to surprising situations.

So, saying that since its D20 and in D&D which is D20 then makes it possible just doesn't work...

Unless, of course, Wizards of Coast screwed over everything when they took over from TSR and made their piece of crap versions (3.0 and 3.5... 4.0 looks very nice!)
ForeverNight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-25-2008, 12:50 AM   #27
MajinMikeyX
Rookie
 
MajinMikeyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 247
Current Game: Halo Reach, BFBC2
The second choice only applies to TSL right? Charisma effects (for example a Light Side Character using a dark side power) the penalty of how many force points the power costs. This only happened for me in TSL, never in KotOR.

Sorry if this is hard to understand, I'm really tired right now and might have had grammatical errors.


"All too easy."
MajinMikeyX is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > Telos Tourist Bureau > Charisma makes you a better Force User...why?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:25 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.