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Old 03-18-2008, 08:31 PM   #1
Jae Onasi
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Obama and Rev. Wright

Today's Fox coverage on Obama's speech and his relationship with Rev. Wright.

Rev. Wright has said some inflammatory comments that cannot be described in any other way than pure racism. Does Obama's close relationship with Wright affect how you view him? How is this going to affect Obama's message of bringing America together? How badly, if at all, does this affect Obama's campaign?

And on a moderator note, I'll be watching this thread carefully. Racism as a topic is fair game. Making denigrating or racist comments will be dealt with swiftly.


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Old 03-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #2
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I dislike Obama with a passion, but I don't like the whole furor, and I would be highly disappointed if Obama loses because of this event instead of losing due to his inexperience or liberal policy views. I mean, this is the rare time in which I actually agree with Obama's rhetoric on Rev. Wright, and I can see where Rev. Wright is coming from (not his conclusion that if you vote for Obama, everything will be okay), even if I highly disagree with Rev. Wright's viewpoints.

I mean, hack, the entire news event actually justifies Obama's message of hope and ending racism once and for all. However, I will not vote for Obama in 2008 because of the major policy differences I hold with Obama, as well as his inexperience and incompetence. That's it. We got more important things to worry about. Kosovo may go up in flames. Iraq's flames are being put out. The US Dollar is already a flaming wreckage. And China is wanting to lit the Olympic flame. All these things are far more important than...well...this.

Eh. Could be worse. We could have a topic on Britteny Spears.


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Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-18-2008, 08:43 PM   #3
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If Obama disagrees with all the rascist things his pastor is saying then he should go and join a new church.


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Old 03-18-2008, 08:57 PM   #4
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I wonder why he hasn't?

One would think that Rev. Wright would be wise enough to keep his mouth shut until after the nomination/election.

I guess not.


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Old 03-18-2008, 09:00 PM   #5
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Well, Freedom of Speech lets the Rev say whatever he wants. If he wants to back Obama, I say let him. It is interesting that Obama has not tried harder to keep the Rev out of the light though. Everybody has the one racist and raving friend or family member that you love but disagree with, and I respect Obama for staying by his associate, but the Rev does indeed seem to be damaging his message of hope.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:44 PM   #6
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I gotta give Obama a little credit, he's at least sticking by a man instead of dropping him like a hot potato like you'd expect from most politicians. Still, I'm doing a little jig - as much as I dislike John McCain, I dislike Obama even more, and I think Obama actually has a chance of winning, unlike dear old Hilary.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcesious
If Obama disagrees with all the rascist things his pastor is saying then he should go and join a new church.
Why? I donít agree with everything my pastor or my church says, but Iím not joining another church. Iím comfortable where I am, I know and like the other members. I donít agree with my churches views on politics, homosexuals, evolution, drinking or dancing, but I donít see any reason to find another church. Like Obama my pastor brought me to God, doesnít that mean anything?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Rev. Wright has said some inflammatory comments that cannot be described in any other way than pure racism.
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Originally Posted by Pat Robertson speaking of Gays at Disney World
"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Falwell
"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals. To oppose it would be like an Israelite jumping in the Red Sea to save one of Pharaoh's charioteers ... AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."
Reverend Jeremiah A Wright was born September 22, 1941. Before we condemn Rev. Wright too much let us remember American History and the treatment of the African-American during his informative years. I believe his statements on Aids and 9/11/2001 are just as crazy as some of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwellís, but letís not forget what the American Government did to 399 African-Americans during the Tuskegee Study. It that light, his statement about Aids is not that farfetched. Maybe it is, but I did not have to live through the racism Reverend Wright has.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Does Obama's close relationship with Wright affect how you view him?
Yes, but less that McCainís relationship with President Bush and the GOP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
How is this going to affect Obama's message of bringing America together?
It will tone down how his message is receive, but it still sound better to me than 100 years in Iraq.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
How badly, if at all, does this affect Obama's campaign?
It will affect the campaign, but it will not affect my vote for Obama or by some miracle Clinton. It will affect the south, but I did not figure Obama would win most of those States anyway.


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Old 03-18-2008, 10:26 PM   #8
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Yeah, mimartin, but let's also remember that our beloved government hasn't been too picky about its guniea pigs since the end of WW2 (and possibly even earlier). Seems to me that we should be as leery of Obama's support of Wright as we'd be if someone failed to disassociate themselves from a David Duke. Wright is an Albatros and Obama would be wise to put further distance between them as he pursues his bid for the WH.


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Old 03-18-2008, 10:28 PM   #9
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Right. Being exposed to Racism makes Racism okay. That makes sense. It's good to know that since I've been called a cracker, I've been liberated to begin rampant use of the various slurs for Blacks and Arabs.

And, Mimartin, we've been in Japan for sixty years. Korea for fifty. We haven't had overt military action in either of those places for about that much time, too. Just because we're present doesn't mean we're fighting there, it means we have bases there. And we'd be pretty stupid not to keep a base or three in Iraq.
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Right. Being exposed to Racism makes Racism okay. That makes sense. It's good to know that since I've been called a cracker, I've been liberated to begin rampant use of the various slurs for Blacks and Arabs.
No, it does not and I never wrote it did. I just can see his point of view even if I do not agree with it. I also know if someone grows up in a certain environment, it can have lasting repercussions to their personality. Mel Gibson anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
And we'd be pretty stupid not to keep a base or three in Iraq.
Yes, one of the thing that will keep the Islamic Extremist Terrorist movement going is staying in one of their holy lands for 100 years, so Iím smart enough to know we should stay at all cost. The war on terrorism is going to be as productive as the war on drugs.


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Old 03-18-2008, 10:51 PM   #11
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Yes, one of the thing that will keep the Islamic Extremist Terrorist movement going is staying in one of their holy lands for 100 years, so Iím smart enough to know we should stay at all cost. The war on terrorism is going to be as productive as the war on drugs.
What do you think McCain is telling straight talk when he says he's going to stay in Iraq for 100 years? He's only state that would happen if only a few American troops die in Iraq every year (since people are against the war because Americans are dying, and if Americans are not dying, then it's not as bad). Since it is obivous that more than a few American troops are dying in Iraq every year, McCain could use it as an excuse to speed up the timeframe in which he hopes to keep troops in Iraq...maybe only 10 years? 5 years? 1 year?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:10 PM   #12
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Mimartin, the Islamic Extremists aren't going to stop if we turn tail and run out of their lands with our proverbial tails tucked between our legs. There's only one way to deal with people like this, and where I come from, it's called 5.56x45mm NATO.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Mimartin, the Islamic Extremists aren't going to stop if we turn tail and run out of their lands with our proverbial tails tucked between our legs. There's only one way to deal with people like this, and where I come from, it's called 5.56x45mm NATO.
So you do not believe we are creating Extremists by being there? Are the deaths of the estimated 89,751 Iraqi civilian creating future terrorist? Or are we killing at a fast enough rate to keep up with the new supply? No, Extremist are not going to stop if we leave, but we might not create a new generation of Extremist if we leave.

Iím not for leaving until we get the country back up and running, but I am totally against staying a moment after that. I would not want foreign invades coming into Texas, why would I expect the Iraqi people to enjoy the experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Mimartin, the Islamic Extremists aren't going to stop if we turn tail and run out of their lands with our proverbial tails tucked between our legs. There's only one way to deal with people like this, and where I come from, it's called 5.56x45mm NATO.
So you do not believe we are creating Extremists by being there? Are the deaths of the estimated 89,751 Iraqi civilian creating future terrorist? Or are we killing at a fast enough rate to keep up with the new supply? No, Extremist are not going to stop if we leave, but we might not create a new generation of Extremist if we leave.

Iím not for leaving until we get the country back up and running, but I am totally against staying a moment after that. I would not want foreign invaders coming into Texas, why would I expect the Iraqi people to enjoy the experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
He's only state that would happen if only a few American troops die in Iraq every year (since people are against the war because Americans are dying, and if Americans are not dying, then it's not as bad).
I wish he would define what he means by a ďfew.Ē



Last edited by mimartin; 03-19-2008 at 11:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
So you do not believe we are creating Extremists by being there? Are the deaths of the estimated 89,751 Iraqi civilian creating future terrorist? Or are we killing at a fast enough rate to keep up with the new supply? No, Extremist are not going to stop if we leave, but we might not create a new generation of Extremist if we leave.

I'd wager you'll just encouage them to not stop. Pretty soon, you'll have them claiming that they have holy sites in north america w/in a century or three and that we should all return to the homelands of our european forebearers.....oh, wait.....they'll control those too. Then our options will be "better an Achmed than dead/better dead than an Achmed". But seriously, I don't buy the "we're breeding extremists if we don't leave" argument that's espoused by apologists of the do nothing and hope they go away school of thought.

Quote:
Iím not for leaving until we get the country back up and running, but I am totally against staying a moment after that. I would not want foreign invades coming into Texas, why would I expect the Iraqi people to enjoy the experience.
You mean other than the Mexicans?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:07 AM   #15
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Rev Wright holds pretty much the same views as the evangelical vote that got Bush elected. In fact, it would hardly surprise me if Wright voted for Bush in the last elections. That is to say, he holds the same views as probly some 10 million(adult) americans, so his views are entirely unsurprising. Considering the fact that he is a christian preacher, it's likly to say that his opinion is in the majority of that population, though his decision to not hold is tongue may or may not put him in the minority though, probly does.

It's nice that Obama isn't jumping ship on this guy like people would expect, and probably slam him for. But seriously, you're preacher, while possibly a good standard, is not the ONLY way to judge a person's opinions. You could, ya know, actually listen to what they're saying and not somebody trying to get their 15 minutes of fame.


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Old 03-19-2008, 12:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
I wish he would define what he means by a ďfew".
Actually, you know what? I finally dug up what he said and I realized I misquoted McCain wrong. Here was the actual statement:

Quote:
"As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."
So, basically, it's not a 'few' casualites, it's NO casualites at all. As long as nobody gets hurt, why not stay in Iraq for 100 years? Until we reach the 'no casualty' level, which is rather unlikely, McCain still got an opening to do a neo-Vietnamization and declare victory.

In fact, while digging up the whole 100-year McCain quote, I found a NY Times Article back in April 2007 that indicates another side of McCain:

Quote:
In a discussion of how he would handle Iraq if elected president, Mr. McCain argued that the success of the Bush administrationís strategy, which seeks to protect Baghdad residents so Iraqi political leaders have an opportunity to pursue a program of political reconciliation, was essentially a precondition for a more limited American role that could follow.

ďI am not guaranteeing that this succeeds,Ē said Mr. McCain, who has long argued that additional troops were needed. ďI am just saying that I think it can. I believe it has a good shot.Ē

Mr. McCain methodically dismissed as unrealistic every other plan that has been proposed by Democrats as a substitute for Mr. Bushís strategy, including those from Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware and Barack Obama of Illinois.

He said that if the Bush administrationís plan had not produced visible signs of progress by the time a McCain presidency began, he might be forced ó if only by the will of public opinion ó to end American involvement in Iraq.

ďI do believe that history shows us Americans will not continue to support an overseas engagement involving the loss of American lives for an unlimited period of time unless they see some success,Ē he added. ďAnd then, when they run out of patience, they will demand that we get out.Ē
There does seem to be more to McCain than meets his Republican lovers, and the Democratic Attack Machine too. IMHO, he is more hawkish than the Democrats, but more dovish than the Republicans.

Quote:
Rev Wright holds pretty much the same views as the evangelical vote that got Bush elected. In fact, it would hardly surprise me if Wright voted for Bush in the last elections.
Rev Wright leads a liberal church. He's therefore part of the Religious Left, and wouldn't have voted for Bush anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
So, basically, it's not a 'few' casualites, it's NO casualites at all.
In that case, we may be out the fastest if McCain is elected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Rev Wright leads a liberal church. He's therefore part of the Religious Left, and wouldn't have voted for Bush anyway.
Agreed. Other than their belief in God, I don't see where his church has anything in common with the Religious Right. I wish I could say the same.



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Old 03-19-2008, 12:35 AM   #18
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Honestly speaking, I applaud Obama for sticking with his friend.
At least hes loyal...


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Old 03-19-2008, 01:09 AM   #19
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Yeah, I give him credit where credit is due. But it may very well sink his campaign, which would give me an incredible dose of the Jollies.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:31 PM   #20
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Well, I think society might be better reassured if Obama dumped his friend rather than defending him. Just to avoid the possiblity that Rev. Wright will still keep some influence in Obama's future government.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Well, I think society might be better reassured if Obama dumped his friend rather than defending him. Just to avoid the possiblity that Rev. Wright will still keep some influence in Obama's future government.
How much influence does any clergy person have over the average Americans life, business or personal? My preacher has been harping for years to vote Republican and even when I have voted Republican it had nothing to do with his sermon and everything to do with my own ill-conceived perception of the candidate. I also donít listen to him when it comes to drinking, dancingÖ (too many to list).


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Old 03-19-2008, 04:21 PM   #22
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Dancing?!

Is your preacher the guy from Footloose?


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:19 PM   #23
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No Baptist, although now that I think about it he does look a lot like John Lithgow. Just not as funny.


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Old 03-19-2008, 08:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
There's only one way to deal with people like this, and where I come from, it's called 5.56x45mm NATO.
So, being exposed to terrorism makes terrorism OK? Got it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
My preacher has been harping for years to vote Republican and even when I have voted Republican it had nothing to do with his sermon and everything to do with my own ill-conceived perception of the candidate. I also donít listen to him when it comes to drinking, dancingÖ (too many to list).
Just a question: If you don't listen to your preacher at all, why do you even keep going to church?


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Old 03-19-2008, 09:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
So, being exposed to terrorism makes terrorism OK? Got it.



Just a question: If you don't listen to your preacher at all, why do you even keep going to church?
He didn't say he doesn't listen to his preacher at all. He said he doesn't listen to some things said by the preacher.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:45 PM   #26
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Well, it sounds like a lot more than just some.


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Old 03-19-2008, 09:47 PM   #27
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And a lot more than he is willing to admit.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
Just a question: If you don't listen to your preacher at all, why do you even keep going to church?
First as I wrote in post #7, I enjoy my church and the other members. I even like the pastor, but just because I like someone does not mean I have to agree with everything they say. I like and respect Achilles here, but I do not agree with everything he writes.

Darth Betrayal is correct I donít agree with some of the things my pastor says, but on others I do agree with him.

I can read. I can think. Any relationship with real meaning has to be personal. If I were to marry, would it still be a personal relationship if I did everything a book or a marriage consular told me to do? Donít you have to be willing to show part of your true self for there to be a real relationship? Those are also my feelings towards my relationship towards God. The pastor may guide me in that relationship, but I will not give up my free will and forfeit my intelligence to believe everything he says. Like I said, I can read and I have read more books than merely the Bible. When religious scholars, different religions and even different denominations cannot even agree on a single interpretation of a passage in Bible, why should I reject my own personal interpretation? That is the part of my personal relationship with God. I was raised in three different churches, so I donít believe in any one denomination.
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Well, it sounds like a lot more than just some.
Possibly.
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Originally Posted by Qliveur
And a lot more than he is willing to admit.
Most definitely.


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Old 03-19-2008, 10:36 PM   #29
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First as I wrote in post #7, I enjoy my church and the other members.
Well...you could always meet with them elsewhere. To each his own, I guess.


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Old 03-20-2008, 12:53 AM   #30
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I don't agree with everything my hubby says--does that mean I should give him up? Being a church member does not mean you have to believe every single thing the pastor says. There are a couple areas I don't 100% agree with my pastor on, but I agree with a lot, if not most, of them. Also, the church provides a community of believers that get together and give each other love, support, sometimes physical and monetary assistance (like the church brought dinners to our home for the first 2 weeks after we had our daughter), and prayer. That's not something you can get going to a baseball game or a bar with a few friends.


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Old 03-20-2008, 01:09 AM   #31
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Well, when "not everything" turns into "nothing"...


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Old 03-20-2008, 02:01 AM   #32
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Yeah, but how many white politicians could get away with being asociated with a preacher/mentor for over/~ 20 years that publicly espoused arguably racist or separatist views while going into a general election. Obama should be held to a similiar standard.


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Old 03-20-2008, 02:39 AM   #33
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You mean like Bush at Bob Jones U?
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:00 AM   #34
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Yeah, but how many white politicians could get away with being asociated with a preacher/mentor for over/~ 20 years that publicly espoused arguably racist or separatist views while going into a general election. Obama should be held to a similiar standard.
Well, judging by the size of Strom Thurmond's funeral...many?


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Old 03-20-2008, 03:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Well, judging by the size of Strom Thurmond's funeral...many?
When was Strom running for the presidency? But I don't doubt that there will be many people in attendance when Robert "KKK" Byrd passes either.

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You mean like Bush at Bob Jones U?
Wasn't aware that Bush claimed as close a relationship with the founder(?) of BJU as Obama does with Wright.

Btw, we're talking about today, not 50+ years ago.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:34 AM   #36
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They actually named one of Air Force Two's backups "The Spirit of Strom Thurmond."

Anyway...am I the only one that thinks this "scandal" is rather well-timed?


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Old 03-20-2008, 03:38 AM   #37
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You mean like the revelation that Obama has harbored presidential ambitions since kindergarden? I suspect that if it weren't for HRC's run for the nomination, this whole "scandal" would only likely be buried by the so-called mainstream press.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:44 AM   #38
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Actually, I was thinking the other way around--it was after all Obama who brought up the topic that led to all the press coverage. And while some may consider this a threat to his campaign, he seems to be handling the situation quite well.

I for one am suspicious. But I'm suspicious of everything and everyone.


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Old 03-20-2008, 04:04 AM   #39
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Well, what exactly are you suspicious of in particular? Do you think he's trying to divert attention from something or do you have something more nefarious in mind?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:09 AM   #40
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Bush went to BJU in 2000 while running for president.
Not 50+ years ago.
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