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Old 03-20-2008, 04:12 AM   #41
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Eh...it seems odd to me that Obama makes his big speech on race, which spurs press coverage of his reverend's inflamatory comments, followed by Obama's speech of how he loves the reverend but hates what he stands for.

So yeah, something more nefarious.


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Old 03-20-2008, 04:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weiser_Cain
Bush went to BJU in 2000 while running for president.
Not 50+ years ago.
Quote:
You mean like Bush at Bob Jones U?

Again:
Wasn't aware that Bush claimed as close a relationship with the founder(?) of BJU as Obama does with Wright.

------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
Eh...it seems odd to me that Obama makes his big speech on race, which spurs press coverage of his reverend's inflamatory comments, followed by Obama's speech of how he loves the reverend but hates what he stands for.

So yeah, something more nefarious.
So, you think that he's waging a preemptive campaign of sorts. Either trying to anticipate an assault on that subject in the primaries or getting wind of it and reacting swiftly?


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Old 03-20-2008, 04:27 AM   #43
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Basically, yes. The whole scenario seems too well-timed to be a coincidence.


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Old 03-20-2008, 04:35 AM   #44
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His relationship with the man is his business, his association with his campaign however tenuous is over. It's as if people are suggesting that because Wright said it, Obama must believe it and thus must secretly hate himself.

I like how any doubt he was secretly a Muslim went away once this tidbit came out, now he's a devout, by the letter, follower of a bad Christian.

If you haven't guessed it I'm an Obama supporter. I've been in some crazy churches before so this stuff no longer shocks me (though trust me it did the first... and second time). I don't believe Obama believes what Wright believes which is reflected in his campaign message, that American has changed and is ready to elect the right leader regardless of their race and gender. Now all he has to do is convince us he's the one.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:48 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weiser_Cain
I like how any doubt he was secretly a Muslim went away once this tidbit came out, now he's a devout, by the letter, follower of a bad Christian.
That's the other thing. I saw on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago coverage of the Ohio primary. A surprising number of (potential) voters questioned said they wouldn't vote for Obama because [they think] he's Muslim.

And then this happens...


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Old 03-20-2008, 05:03 AM   #46
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You just love conspiracies. Life's not that interesting.
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:12 AM   #47
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Politics? Interesting?!

And I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conspiracy (I don't actually like conspiracies, for the record ).

It's simple: Obama had two problems--an inflamatory reverend, and people who thought he's Muslim. If he brought to light the one, it could solve the other. And if he was the one to bring it up, he could certainly handle it better than if it, say, came out April 21.

Of course, the most this says about Obama is that he's a good strategist--not a bad quality in a president. However, it also suggests that he cares too much about image, not really a good quality in anyone. Then again, it's not like he's alone in that respect.

But I'm not saying that's what happen. I'm just saying that I'm suspicious.



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Old 03-20-2008, 09:30 AM   #48
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Every single politician cares about their image. They want to get elected, after all. There are 2 fears that people are expressing on this issue right now--first, does Obama believe the same way (i.e. racism against any non-blacks, but chiefly racism against whites), and second, is Obama going to appoint people like Wright to positions where their racism would then have a direct impact on non-blacks.

I thought there were points where Obama could have done better (comparing his grandma and her occasional racist comments to Wright and the vitriol he spews was a little odd), but overall I think he gave an excellent speech on how he feels about Wright, racism, and how he wants to deal with race relations in general.

That was a do-or-die speech for Obama. If he did not do well, his campaign would have been tanked. If he did well, it would at least stop the bleeding and possibly improve his standing.

Is this a conspiracy and is the timing convenient? He's in the fishbowl, and he is going to be scrutinized very closely as someone who could very well be our next President. Reporters are going to look for anything they can find on him, because he is a bit of an unknown quantity. We know far more about McCain and Clinton because they've been in the public eye much longer. Someone may or may not have tipped off a reporter, but I know any good reporter would want to get the scoop on the story, and they're going to be doing a ton of research on him.


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Old 03-20-2008, 02:03 PM   #49
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I think that Obama shouldn't have to answer for someone else's opinions. I obviously wouldn't vote for Obama, it seems to me that a double standard exists. If Obama has to answer for his pastor's preaching against the "white elitists," shouldn't McCain have to answer for his pastor(Hagee)'s preaching against the "evils" of homosexuality?





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Old 03-20-2008, 04:59 PM   #50
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Oh, this certainly isn't a matter of whether he should have to answer for his reverend's inflamatory remarks. What does that have anything to do with being president?

Of course, reforming healthcare has nothing to do with being president either.


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Old 03-20-2008, 05:58 PM   #51
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There's a difference between just speaking the truth and going ape towards anyone who isn't Black.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:05 PM   #52
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Well, Obama just called his grandmother "a typical white person", so either my suspicious were unfounded (which, as I said, is likely), or he's the worst strategist ever.


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:13 PM   #53
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Well one of his grandmothers is white. What would you rather he call her an atypical white person?


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:26 PM   #54
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Well, it was in reference to the fact that "typical white people" are afraid of black people. And yes, the media is tearing him up about it.


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:27 PM   #55
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His use of the word "typical" wasn't particularly judicious. The implication is that the "typical" white person automatically lapses into stereotyping strangers, in this case black. The statement says more about Obama's perception of white people than anything about them.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

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Old 03-20-2008, 11:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
His use of the word "typical" wasn't particularly judicious.
I'm not saying it was. I'm saying that the "mainstream press" is saying it was.

It's all about image, remember?


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:38 PM   #57
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Was just making a blanket statement about Obama's poor choice of words. Didn't see your reply till mine posted (ie it wasn't aimed at your post).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:43 PM   #58
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You know, none of the statements I've heard on the cable news channels made by Rev. Wright are even that bad. Yeah, they're unconventional views, but I tend to agree with him - at least on what I've heard him say. I must not be hearing the worst of what he's said, because nothing I've heard was in any way racist.

Rev. Wright actually makes a lot of sense if you filter out the hysteria in the media. Which is weird, because usually preachers are full of ****. Just because Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly (see: actual racists) say that Rev. Wright is racist and a separatist, doesn't make him one. Don't believe the hype!
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:49 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
Well, it was in reference to the fact that "typical white people" are afraid of black people. And yes, the media is tearing him up about it.
The only so-called “news network’ I've seen giving him a hard time about it is FoxNews and Fox affiliates. I consider them as mainstream as I do “fair and balanced.” Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore are just as mainstream and “fair and balanced” as FoxNews. The other major media highlighting this gaffe are all New York Newspapers, I wonder why that would be, maybe because of a certain Senator from that state.


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Old 03-20-2008, 11:52 PM   #60
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They certainly aren't "fair and balanced", but they are "mainstream" (as in, lots of people watch them and believe what they watch, whether or not they should). It also made the local news here on several channels (mainly because I live in Boston, and the governor of Massachusetts is a longtime friend of Obama).


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Old 03-21-2008, 12:26 AM   #61
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Typical white people are racist for the win!
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:29 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
They certainly aren't "fair and balanced", but they are "mainstream" (as in, lots of people watch them and believe what they watch, whether or not they should).
Sure to the Republican base FoxNews is considered “mainstream.” To “those people” it is even considered “fair and balanced.” However, to anyone that would even consider voting for Barack Obama FoxNews is neither.

To borrow an anonymous member’s description me, I am too “pigheaded and stubborn” to convince otherwise.


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Old 03-21-2008, 12:37 AM   #63
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Fox News is leaning on about a 70 degree angle towards the Right, True. But you can get a fairly decent coverage if you mix it together with one of the more mainstream news. Let's face it, most of the rest are Leftists. Fox News is a breath of fresh air merely because, while it's just as stilted, at least they do the other direction.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:15 AM   #64
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You agree with Fox so you like it, when I watched it once I found it offensive. I'll stop there.
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Old 03-21-2008, 01:56 AM   #65
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Man, I love posts like that. "I don't like X. So now I'm going to stop, because I have no argument." Geez, Weiser, you and Avery should get together. Form a "I like to fire off opposing opinions, but don't want to go to the effort(or can't) of backing it up."

And, yes, I do tend to agree with Fox which is probably why I like it. I also enjoy shows like This Week with George Step...whatever the hell his name is, mostly because he looks like he's about six so he's incredibly easy to mock.
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:11 AM   #66
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Quote:
Just because Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly (see: actual racists)
How so? B/c obermann says so?


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:23 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Man, I love posts like that. "I don't like X. So now I'm going to stop, because I have no argument." Geez, Weiser, you and Avery should get together. Form a "I like to fire off opposing opinions, but don't want to go to the effort(or can't) of backing it up."

And, yes, I do tend to agree with Fox which is probably why I like it. I also enjoy shows like This Week with George Step...whatever the hell his name is, mostly because he looks like he's about six so he's incredibly easy to mock.
Hey, I was trying to be nice. I don't need to back anything up because I didn't put forth an argument. I suggested you like Fox because you agreed with everything they say, then I stated an opinion. What are you going to do prove to me I wasn't offended?
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Old 03-21-2008, 02:50 AM   #68
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Exactly. You didn't put forth an argument. You stated that you found Fox News offensive, but you failed to elaborate. The key in there is failure.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Exactly. You didn't put forth an argument. You stated that you found Fox News offensive, but you failed to elaborate. The key in there is failure.
Damn him for not proving he found Fox offensive.



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Old 03-21-2008, 03:02 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Man, I love posts like that. "I don't like X. So now I'm going to stop, because I have no argument." Geez, Weiser, you and Avery should get together. Form a "I like to fire off opposing opinions, but don't want to go to the effort(or can't) of backing it up."
I forget which strike this is but I'm pretty sure it's way past the third, given your track record here.

Take a few days off to learn how to post without resorting to snide, ad hominem remarks.




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Old 03-21-2008, 03:03 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
And, yes, I do tend to agree with Fox which is probably why I like it. I also enjoy shows like This Week with George Step...whatever the hell his name is, mostly because he looks like he's about six so he's incredibly easy to mock.
Wow, deep. Fox is a waste of a television station. If you feel the need to +1 by saying 'omg failurz cuz u r not post enuf textz!', feel free.

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Old 03-21-2008, 04:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weiser_Cain
You agree with Fox so you like it, when I watched it once I found it offensive. I'll stop there.

Do you recall specifically what it was that offended you that particular time? I can't watch MSNBC for the most part b/c that station really is a pretty bad joke (oberman is such a vainglorious pompous schmuck). The main networks (ABC/NBC/CBS) are hopelessly tilted to the left, as is CNN. Fox's success is no doubt in part due to the fact that a certain segment of the population was underwhelmed by the lackluster variety of choices then available. Will usually flip between CNN/Fox due to fact that they are a station apart from each other.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:41 AM   #73
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I get my news from Google News. They ensure that my news is rather biased towards crackpots, which is exactly what I desire (crackpots, 9 out of 10, will control the world, so I need to know what they believe). If I feel really daring, I'd click on BBC or the French paper International Healrd Tribune. I'm a right-winger, so I usually listen to left-wing properganda so that I migate my own ideological bias. I'll only watch right-wing properganda to remind myself why I am still a right-winger though.


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Old 03-21-2008, 03:06 PM   #74
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The partisan media is full of people who think Obama is either too black or not black enough. In reality, I think he's nothing if not an individual. As for Rev. Wright, the guy is clearly a nut, but it's hard to not at the very least understand where his anger comes from. It's just like Obama said in his speech: it's not something people like to talk about in polite company... but it's not like the black men and women of his generation didn't have anything to be angry about. This whole 'scandal' is a complete joke.


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Old 03-21-2008, 04:54 PM   #75
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Well said.
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:03 PM   #76
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While I think his long association with the man raises questions, it won't impact my decision about Obama. Obama is basically a big govt socialist (not much different than Hilary, but more left leaning) and that's why I could never vote for the man.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 03-21-2008, 05:32 PM   #77
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I love how democrats are labeled “Big Government” socialist, spenders as a sort of put down. Yet, the Republicans have became the party of “Big Government” Corporate American yes men whose only real concerns are “Big Business” and the “Religious Right.” The Republicans are even more financially unstable than their liberal counterparts (what else would you call someone that spends at the same rate as the liberals yet cuts taxes at the same time, borrow and spend < tax and spend, at least to a real conservatives).

Likewise, Obama gaffe or Rev. Wright’s comments will not affect my vote for the big government socialist party over the big government big business party.

I’m starting to sound like Ron Paul.


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Old 03-21-2008, 08:34 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by mimartin
The Republicans are even more financially unstable than their liberal counterparts (what else would you call someone that spends at the same rate as the liberals yet cuts taxes at the same time, borrow and spend < tax and spend, at least to a real conservatives).
Reminds me of a certain senator who wants to cut taxes and give out free healthcare. No, not him, the other one.

By the way, anyone notice that the three major candidates are senators? The last senator to be elected president was one John F. Kennedy, almost fifty years ago.

He was also the last northerner to be elected. Just some random trivia for you.


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Old 03-21-2008, 09:13 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426
Reminds me of a certain senator who wants to cut taxes and give out free healthcare. No, not him, the other one.
Not really, she wants to cut the taxes on the middle class while doing away with the Bush tax cuts that benefited millionaires. At least according to Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center that is who benefited the most. Also most of these were not asked for by Bush, they were added by the Republican Congress, which John McCain was a member. Therefore, it was just a rogue Republican deciding that we should over spend and run up a huge deficit.
Quote:
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, a majority of the tax cuts from these two tax-cut measures — 54 percent of these tax cuts, to be precise — will go to the 0.2 percent of households that have annual incomes of more than $1 million a year. These households will receive added tax cuts averaging nearly $20,000 a year from these two tax-cut measures, when the measures are fully in effect.
In fairness, they passed congress in 2001 before 9/11/2001, before the wars and before Katrina. The irresponsibility happens after these things happened and the tax cuts were not repealed or modified even though we increased spending.

Didn’t the Republicans once favor a balance budget amendment? This is why I am no longer a Republican. I am a conservative when it comes to financial matters and spending, but those concepts died within the Republican Party long ago.


Got a kick out of Obama’s people getting this picture of President Clinton and Rev. Wright in the White House out to the media. That can change my impression of him, but it still want get me voting for a Republican.


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Old 03-21-2008, 09:20 PM   #80
JCarter426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
Not really, she wants to cut the taxes on the middle class while doing away with the Bush tax cuts that benefited millionaires.
Yeah, that will take care of the cost for a while, but it's not a good permanent solution.

Quote:
Didn’t the Republicans once favor a balance budget amendment? This is why I am no longer a Republican. I am a conservative when it comes to financial matters and spending, but those concepts died within the Republican Party long ago.
This is why I don't trust Republicans--they keep changing their views on the economy, they can't decide whether they're for States' Rights or Big Government...

That doesn't mean I trust Democrats any more, though.

Quote:
In fairness, they passed congress in 2001 before 9/11/2001, before the wars and before Katrina.
Not before there were plans to go into Iraq, though--but that's not entirely Congress' fault...oh, wait, it is, because they admonished their power to declare war decades ago.


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