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Old 04-03-2008, 12:40 AM   #1
MdKnightR
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3rd Grader's Plot to Hurt, Maim, or Kill Their Teacher

Check this out...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/...hildren_s_plot

They keep getting younger and younger, but Georgia law won't charge anyone under the age of 13 with a crime. Comments?

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Old 04-03-2008, 01:05 AM   #2
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Good to know that parents continue to do their jobs.
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Old 04-03-2008, 01:21 AM   #3
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Well, what can they do with pressing charges on 3rd Graders? Intense psychiatry is probably the best method for helping these kids to me. However these School officials are in a state of denial about the situation, a predictable response in retrospect though.


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Old 04-03-2008, 02:36 AM   #4
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I read about this in the newspaper today. Things in this world just seem to be getting worse every day. I mean, third graders!? What are they, 7 or 8 years old!? That is crazy! I really do wonder how these kids got an idea like this....I wonder why...

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Old 04-03-2008, 04:30 AM   #5
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These kids don't need punishment. They need parents, guide, hobbies, a better TV programme, less schnick-schnack and better role models.


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Old 04-03-2008, 04:35 AM   #6
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I agree with Ray Jones.
Ugh.. When I was in Grade 3 my best fantasy was to swear at my teacher..



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Old 04-03-2008, 06:42 AM   #7
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At age 9, I often wished that my Moral Education would be struck down by...

...instant malaria.

Quick, lock me up and throw away the key:/



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Old 04-03-2008, 06:55 AM   #8
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But you haven't ordered the virus and brought it to school, have you?



I wonder how they gonna deal with the kids' parents?


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Old 04-03-2008, 07:33 AM   #9
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When did it become acceptable to use violence in school, period, regardless of age? Certainly, this child can't be charged with a crime, but the home situation has to be looked at. This kid either has poor parenting, psych issues, or both. While I think a lot of personality traits are laid down by age 8 or 9, I don't think this kid is remotely close to being cognitively developed enough to be charged with a crime.

We used to value teachers and education, but it seems like in the last 15 years or so schools have become viewed more by parents as daycares than places where kids are supposed to work on getting an education. Yes, that's a broad sweeping generalization and certainly not the experience of all, but if education and respect for teachers have been devalued, then we should not be surprised at all when things like this happen.


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Old 04-03-2008, 08:02 AM   #10
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"Parents" view a lot of things as "daycares" nowadays. The television for instance, video games, DVDs, or talking plastic toys.


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Old 04-03-2008, 08:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones
"Parents" view a lot of things as "daycares" nowadays. The television for instance, video games, DVDs, or talking plastic toys.
I don't disagree with you on that, and I don't want to make it sound like daycare is a bad thing. It's just that it doesn't seem to me that parents are as committed to education as before. Education doesn't happen by itself, and the school can't do it alone.


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Old 04-03-2008, 08:32 AM   #12
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Daycare is a good thing, of course. But not all things are good daycares.

I think you are correct, there's not enough focus on education and guidance in today's homes. Of course as a parent you cannot know and teach everything perfectly, that's why teachers receive a special education for that, but pushing it all on the teacher is definitely wrong, and not helpful. Children learn how to learn long before school, and during the first years they learn that almost exclusively from their parents. When all they learn is push button - hear music, things are lost.


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Old 04-03-2008, 01:20 PM   #13
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I think It's just a cry for attention, I doubt any of them would have gone through with it.

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Old 04-03-2008, 02:02 PM   #14
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Well they brought the weapons to school with them. That sounds to me that they were serious, but then again I really don't know what would have happened. I think that it was a good thing that one of the kids said something about it....

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Old 04-03-2008, 06:52 PM   #15
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This is why we need to put more funding back into the school systems...


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Old 04-03-2008, 07:33 PM   #16
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The parents need to become more involved. Usually, in cases like these, the children have been neglected or cannot tell the difference between right and wrong.
their parents oughtta teach them better.

At any rate, I pray to god that some wack @ss politician doesn't start derailing violent video games (especially with the GTA IV release date so close).


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Old 04-07-2008, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Sitherino
This is why we need to put more funding back into the school systems...

More money? To what purpose, exactly? I say that there shouldn't be another dime pumped into the system until it actually produces results. Accountability is what's needed first. As for the kids, there should be some level of punishment, not excuse making.


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Old 04-07-2008, 05:43 PM   #18
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More money? To what purpose, exactly? I say that there shouldn't be another dime pumped into the system until it actually produces results. Accountability is what's needed first. As for the kids, there should be some level of punishment, not excuse making.
There are holes in DC's schools, and they are falling apart. But no more money, right?
The kids, well they probably need psychiatric help, at the least.


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Old 04-07-2008, 08:21 PM   #19
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Where's the money gone that was probably allocated for it in the first place?


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Old 04-08-2008, 01:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
More money? To what purpose, exactly? I say that there shouldn't be another dime pumped into the system until it actually produces results. Accountability is what's needed first. As for the kids, there should be some level of punishment, not excuse making.

So I see we have another armchair education expert in our midst. I agree that discipline (corporal punishment) should return, but "accountability" is the buzzword of the moment. It usually refers to punishment for teachers who supposedly don't do their jobs. What about holding the students and their parents accountable for a change? You know the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

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Old 04-08-2008, 04:10 AM   #21
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Accountability isn't an unfair expectation, but shouldn't be limited only to the teacher. I understand that you're a teacher, but I'm talking about the whole system, of which teachers are but a part. It's got nothing to do w/"armchair general/expert" and everything to do with reforming the whole system, not just one part. I agree that some form of corporal punishment shouldn't be out of the question, but teacher competency and an end to social promotion would be welcome redresses too. Also, given the amounts of money spent and the poor academic results achieved, I think it's extremely fair to demand more value for the tax dollars spent. Perhaps students who fail to take advantage of their reasonably free education should be stigmatized. If they "snooze" they lose.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

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Old 04-08-2008, 04:27 AM   #22
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What about holding the students and their parents accountable for a change? You know the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
You can drown the horse, though, which is the option most parents and Congress seem to prefer.


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Old 04-09-2008, 12:46 AM   #23
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I read about this in the newspaper today. Things in this world just seem to be getting worse every day. I mean, third graders!? What are they, 7 or 8 years old!? That is crazy! I really do wonder how these kids got an idea like this....I wonder why...
*cough* GTA *cough*

Though I can blame video games for this, I can't. These kids have got some serious mental issues if they want to do in thier teacher. This is proof that the American society is collapsing. We have fine people trying to educate us so we can lead better lives, and what happens? We plot to kill them!! This is one of the times where i wished I lived in the 60s, with all the peace, love, anti-war and the like.
I mean, my little bro is in 4th grade, and he's perfectly fine with his teacher, though I think she isn't teacher his class anything. I kinda agree with the whole "corporal punishment" thing, but not as, say, a daily punishment, more like spairingly. I was spanked when I backsassed my mom, then she drove me to my grandma's to show her the red mark on my a$$. I may be a little crazy, but I wasn't scared for life because of it. People always complain that "corporal punishment" is child abuse, but what doe 7- and 8-year-olds wanting to kill thier teachers fall under?

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Old 04-09-2008, 01:02 AM   #24
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Social promotion pretty much doesn't exist since NCLB. Perhaps that is one of its few redeeming values. However, there are instances where it should exist. Teachers should be given back their own professional discretion to pass a student who does well in class, but can't take tests successfully.

As for the value for the tax money you speak of, I favor the idea of taking the deadbeat "students" (term used VERY loosely) out of the equation. The bad seeds are the ones bringing everyone else down. There are many success stories in schools across the land, but the media focuses on the negative (just like they do with elections). If a student can't perform in a traditional school setting, there needs to be a trade school option. And I don't mean computer-based either. I'm talking about programs that aren't available in public schools anymore....masonry, carpentry, welding, etc. Trades that are suited to those who can't excel in a college preparatory environment. A lot of the problem is "idle hands are the devil's playground." Some students simply need hands-on training.

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Old 04-09-2008, 01:11 AM   #25
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^That is a very good point. I was in grade school four years ago, and several students just didn't care, and niether did the teacher. About half of my sixth-grade class didn't do any homework, at all. Some people brought thier iPods and the teacher could, quite frankly, give a crap.

I think music plays at least some part in this somehow. Rap is very popular with kids and teens. And what do they rap. Rape, murder, crime. Read the lyrics to "Crank That" by Soulja Boy, and you'll get my meaning.

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Old 04-09-2008, 01:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MdKnightR
Social promotion pretty much doesn't exist since NCLB. Perhaps that is one of its few redeeming values. However, there are instances where it should exist. Teachers should be given back their own professional discretion to pass a student who does well in class, but can't take tests successfully.

As for the value for the tax money you speak of, I favor the idea of taking the deadbeat "students" (term used VERY loosely) out of the equation. The bad seeds are the ones bringing everyone else down. There are many success stories in schools across the land, but the media focuses on the negative (just like they do with elections). If a student can't perform in a traditional school setting, there needs to be a trade school option. And I don't mean computer-based either. I'm talking about programs that aren't available in public schools anymore....masonry, carpentry, welding, etc. Trades that are suited to those who can't excel in a college preparatory environment. A lot of the problem is "idle hands are the devil's playground." Some students simply need hands-on training.
I think that the trade school concept has a lot of merit. People can make quite a good living working in various trades (so long as wages aren't depressed by an influx of illegals doing these types of jobs that "Americans don't want to do"). College isn't for everyone. There're many paths to success, college being only one of them.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:59 AM   #27
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I was as shocked reading that as I was when I found out a person, I think late 20's-early 30s, beat up a 64 year old on the bus with his anger management homework.

How in the world did they come up with that idea, something must've gone terribly wrong to come up with that, in year 3!!!


Yes
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #28
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The disease here? They haven't cultivated a healthy fear of their teachers or parents. The solution?

Corporal Punishment. Ever hear that "The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom?"
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:49 PM   #29
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I agree with Georgia's policy of not bringing these kids to trial. I think though that their parents should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law. Parents actually need to be... um... you know... PARENTS!
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
Parents actually need to be... um... you know... PARENTS!
It always gets me that we are required to get a drivers license in order to operate a motor vehicle, but any moron can have a child. Obliviously a child can be just as deadly as a motor vehicle.


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Old 04-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
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It always gets me that we are required to get a drivers license in order to operate a motor vehicle, but any moron can have a child. Obliviously a child can be just as deadly as a motor vehicle.
More so.

A child can become far more lethal. We have prisons with a good chunk of them, and even more are out on the streets.
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:30 AM   #32
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Well, I'm sure if we ever figure out completely how to rework the human genome, the govt will be able to turn off/on peoples' sex drives and control fertility. Maybe even create a Dept of Fertility or somesuch thing. Keep in mind, though, that parents are no more able to monitor their children 24-7 than society can. Doesn't mean you get a pass for bad/absentee parenting, just that there are more influences on kids behavior than just their immediate family.


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.---Teddy Roosevelt

I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.---Groucho

And if you all get killed, I'll piss on your graves.---Shaman Urdnot

How would you like to own a little bit of my foot in your ass.---Red Foreman
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Old 04-10-2008, 03:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_man
...proof that the American society is collapsing.
Is? IS? This is way beyond "is".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_man
I was in grade school four years ago, and several students just didn't care, and niether did the teacher. About half of my sixth-grade class didn't do any homework, at all. Some people brought thier iPods and the teacher could, quite frankly, give a crap.
Sounds like my old high school, only not as bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_man
I think music plays at least some part in this somehow. Rap is very popular with kids and teens. And what do they rap. Rape, murder, crime.
Meh...chicken and the egg theory. One could easily argue that they only listen to rap because they're interested in rape, murder, and crime already. Of course, I can hardly speak on the matter since I don't listen to music at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MdKnightR
The bad seeds are the ones bringing everyone else down. There are many success stories in schools across the land, but the media focuses on the negative (just like they do with elections). If a student can't perform in a traditional school setting, there needs to be a trade school option.
Anyone ever seen The Wire? The show took place in Baltimore, and focused on drug-related crime, on every level, from the supplier to the corner boys to the kingpins.

There was a whole season that focused on the problems of the school system.. This study group took all the "bad seeds" out of the class and put them in a separate class, focused on trying to understand what made them bad seeds.

The group was run by a former police commander who got rid of the drug problem by legalizing drugs in certain zones of the city (yes, that got him fired). The point he was trying to make was that it didn't matter if they taught them or not, because they didn't want to be taught. Their parents and grandparents had gone to the same schools, been failed by the parents and grandparents of the same teachers, and wound up back on the corner selling drugs. The group was shut down because the school was more concerned about the test scores than whether any of the students actually learned anything.

While the show may have been a work of fiction, there certainly is a lot of truth in this. My high school had (still has, I assume) a similar problem; it was focused on being number one in regards to the standardized test scores, to the extent where entire classes were punished if they weren't. Teachers were pressured not to teach, but to make sure their students would pass. Add to that a few bad seeds who bring down the rest of the students, and you've got an entire school that doesn't care.

But if you take out the bad seeds, you still have a dozen other problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
I agree with Georgia's policy of not bringing these kids to trial. I think though that their parents should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law.
The law doesn't find them responsible. Perhaps that is one of the problems. Of course, if you put people in prison for being bad parents, there'd be none of us here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
Well, I'm sure if we ever figure out completely how to rework the human genome, the govt will be able to turn off/on peoples' sex drives and control fertility. Maybe even create a Dept of Fertility or somesuch thing.
And that's another problem. Getting the government involved doesn't solve anything, and is bound to create a dozen more problems. It shouldn't be the government's job to tell parents what to do, and punish them for being bad parents. Just look at what happens when the government tries to enforce social policy (see: prohibition, abortion, gay marriage, etc).


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Old 04-10-2008, 06:08 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by JCarter426
The law doesn't find them responsible. Perhaps that is one of the problems. Of course, if you put people in prison for being bad parents, there'd be none of us here.
At that age, they can hardly be held accountable. 8 to 9 years old. IF by that time the child hasn't been taught that hurting is unacceptable, that is a failure on the part of the parents. This kind of behavior tells volumes about the parents more than it does the child. Lets face it, All parents make mistakes. Not all parents are criminally negligent with their children. You seem to imply that I think that the same punishment should be levied for not catching your child before they knock a vase off the shelf(man was that thing expensive) as completely ignoring your child's behavioral problems. I mean we put parents in jail for abusing their children, but not for giving them a reasonable swat on their backside.
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Old 04-10-2008, 06:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommycat
At that age, they can hardly be held accountable. 8 to 9 years old. IF by that time the child hasn't been taught that hurting is unacceptable, that is a failure on the part of the parents. This kind of behavior tells volumes about the parents more than it does the child. Lets face it, All parents make mistakes. Not all parents are criminally negligent with their children. You seem to imply that I think that the same punishment should be levied for not catching your child before they knock a vase off the shelf(man was that thing expensive) as completely ignoring your child's behavioral problems. I mean we put parents in jail for abusing their children, but not for giving them a reasonable swat on their backside.
The difference is that one is easily defined as a crime, while the other is simple negligence. Whether the negligence is criminal is the question. As of now, the law doesn't define it as such, and perhaps that is a problem. But you said it yourself--all parents make mistakes. Finding parents criminally responsible for the actions of their children leads to a slippery slope. And as I said earlier, getting the government involved is not a good idea.


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Old 04-10-2008, 12:00 PM   #36
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That varies by state though. In Florida, a parent is responsible for the actions of their children. So if this had happened there, all of their parents would be looking at criminal sentences as though they themselves had broken the same laws that their children actually did.


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Old 04-10-2008, 12:17 PM   #37
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Didn't know that Florida law was that extreme. A little too extreme for my tastes, though the law here (Massachusetts) is too lax when it comes to parental responsibility.


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