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Old 04-19-2008, 11:40 PM   #1
DarthJebus05
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I just reported a pedophile...(see mod note in first post before replying)

And it was a great feeling. Of course, this guy was was pedophile, trying to engage in oral sex with my sister. I rung up Crime Stoppers (Australia's anonymous crime reporter), supplied them with his location (didn't have his address) and his email. They sent the email off to be traced or whatever they do.

If any of you know any pedophiles, please report them. It will stop you from worrying about who they're engaging in pedophilia with anymore. And it will feel great.

Moderator note: Pedophilia is a very challenging subject for a PG-13 site. Be careful about how descriptive you get about actions--if it's too descriptive it will be deleted, and if you abuse that you will get sanctioned. Do not link to sites promoting pedophilia, or other inappropriate sites.

The staff will make the judgment call on what's appropriate. If you have any questions about whether a post or link will be allowed, please PM one of us and we'll be happy to look it over and work with you on it. If you feel a post has gone over the line, PLEASE use the 'report post' function--that is the single fastest way for most of us to get the notification of a problem post.

This is a public forum. If you happen to post something here that can get you in legal hot water, I'm not going to be sorry one bit if the authorities come knocking on your door.

Yes, I know some of this sounds strict, but there is very little wiggle room with this particular subject. --Jae

Last edited by Jae Onasi; 04-20-2008 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 04-20-2008, 12:27 AM   #2
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I don't really think that I'll be in a situation to report a pedo, but well done. Don't forget to tell your parents about this if they don't already know though, your sister might need a bit of a lesson on intarveb safe tea.


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Old 04-20-2008, 02:27 AM   #3
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Well if a pedophile were stalking me and were female and really damned hot, I might have second thoughts about the affair, but good job kickin that pedo's butt, Jebus.


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Old 04-20-2008, 02:32 AM   #4
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Your sister may also need to see a professional for counseling after an experience like that. Getting molested or nearly molested is very traumatizing.

Good catch on getting the guy.

There is zero excuse for someone to be doing this to a child, and you could be doing that child the greatest favor in the world by making one little phone call to someone who can fix the problem.


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Old 04-20-2008, 03:19 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
There is zero excuse for someone to be doing this to a child.
Try being born and growing up realizing that the -only- thing that gets you off is a child. There is always an excuse, and I'd wager that the majority of the people are pedophiles from birth. People want to be close to something, and they want sex. When a child is the only thing that can feed that... you get pedophiles.

If the only thing that satisfied me was a child, I wager I'd be arrested at some point as well.

But, back on topic, I have some experience with pedophiles from my past. Get your sister some counseling and coach her on internet safety as soon as possible. I would recommend removing her from the internet for a few months before letting her back on. Figure out what is making her so vulnerable, and then try and help her fix it.

I hope the police find the guy so that he can get the help he needs, or be removed from the temptation to help himself and others.
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:59 AM   #6
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I log every chat on MSN, AIM, Yahoo, Ventrilo and every game and even that happens on the computer. Due to luck while trying to find a certain chat log on MSN, I came across a email I never saw before. I read the chat log, and called the authorities straight away. I told my parents after I did, and we were thinking of getting her counseling. Nothing is final yet.
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Old 04-20-2008, 08:03 AM   #7
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Darth Jebus has moved much closer to the Light Side of The Force.

Well done! Although both your sister and the pedo will (hopefully) get some counselling and therapy before they can continue their lives.
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Old 04-20-2008, 08:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
Try being born and growing up realizing that the -only- thing that gets you off is a child. There is always an excuse, and I'd wager that the majority of the people are pedophiles from birth. People want to be close to something, and they want sex. When a child is the only thing that can feed that... you get pedophiles.
I disagree, while the psychological evidence does point to certain genes playing apart in people being more aggressive or whatever; people can still choose, after all while many men with higher testosterone are in Prison, there are also many men who are proffesional sports stars with a similar level of testosterone. Just because an individual maybe inclined to act in a particular way, doesn't mean they can't channel that 'energy' into something constructive.

Personally I suspect pedophiles are a mixture of genes, nurture and environment. We should be careful not to dehumanise, these poor individuals as while their crimes are repugnant they are still people, often who themsevles were abused as children. But while trying to help them; once someone has offended, I think they should be brought to account for their actions and not given the chance to re-offend.



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Old 04-20-2008, 08:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7
I disagree, while the psychological evidence does point to certain genes playing apart in people being more aggressive or whatever; people can still choose, after all while many men with higher testosterone are in Prison, there are also many men who are proffesional sports stars with a similar level of testosterone. Just because an individual maybe inclined to act in a particular way, doesn't mean they can't channel that 'energy' into something constructive.
Are you certain they can choose? In order to make the right choice, one must have at least the clear difinitions of what's right and wrong. I don't think those people have.


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Old 04-20-2008, 08:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
Are you certain they can choose? In order to make the right choice, one must have at least the clear difinitions of what's right and wrong. I don't think those people have.
Perhaps, it is obviously hard to generalise, and depends on the individuals, involved as to their definitions of right and wrong.



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Old 04-20-2008, 09:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
Try being born and growing up realizing that the -only- thing that gets you off is a child. There is always an excuse, and I'd wager that the majority of the people are pedophiles from birth. People want to be close to something, and they want sex. When a child is the only thing that can feed that... you get pedophiles.
.
It's irrelevant if they realize the only thing that gets them off is a child. It's still wrong. I'm sorry for whatever damaged their systems so that they don't have appropriate sex drives, but it's still wrong. Why? A child can't choose to have sex or not sex in the case of pedophiles, and a child's sexual organs are not developed enough at younger ages to even have sex. If you have sex with a younger child, you damage their internal organs. That doesn't even begin to address the psychological damage done of forcing a child to have sex.

Yeah, we humans in general want sex, but it needs to be in the appropriate context. Pedophiles don't get the right to indulge their 'needs' at the expense of a child's health and safety. Sorry, but their 'right' to be horny doesn't override my kids', or any kids', rights to an upbringing safe from being damaged by these predators. Their actions are reprehensible and they need to be stopped from harming children.


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Old 04-20-2008, 09:46 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Sorry, but their 'right' to be horny doesn't override my kids', or any kids', rights to an upbringing safe from being damaged by these predators.
While I don't want to be part of this debate on paedophilia, I only wish to express that the question arises as to just how one can define if a right overrides another. How can it be reasonably judged that a man's right to sexual satisfaction is higher or lower than that of a child to be raised in a safe and sound environment?


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Old 04-20-2008, 09:53 AM   #13
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Er, shouldn't this thread be in Kavar's Corner? I assume that paedophilia is a serious enough topic to debate and discuss over, no?
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Old 04-20-2008, 09:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
While I don't want to be part of this debate on paedophilia, I only wish to express that the question arises as to just how one can define if a right overrides another. How can it be reasonably judged that a man's right to sexual satisfaction is higher or lower than that of a child to be raised in a safe and sound environment?
You gotta be kidding! For the same reason rape is wrong; an individual in a western country should be allowed to think and feel what they want, however as soon as they act in a way that affects another they come under the juristiction of the government and judicary. So for the same reason I do not agree with mob mentality going after pedophiles, I do not allow a pedophile to abuse a child; perhaps I'm an inherrantly repressive and narrowminded individual, but I happen to believe a child should have the right not to be sexually abused!



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Old 04-20-2008, 10:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by jonathan7
I happen to believe a child should have the right not to be sexually abused!
Agreed, but the question is, should a person not have a right to fulfil his sexual desires? And if he should, and these two rights overlap, which should override the other (if at all) and on what basis?


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Old 04-20-2008, 10:16 AM   #16
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Agreed, but the question is, should a person not have a right to fulfil his sexual desires? And if he should, and these two rights overlap, which should override the other (if at all) and on what basis?
Sex should be consensual, when it is not an individual does not have the right to fullfill their 'sexual' needs. We live in a society that seems to think that just because you 'feel' something it should give you the right to do it. With the same logic applied, if I'm a serial killer, why shouldn't I be allowed to go and kill someone, as that is how I get my sexual satisfaction. The problem with modern society, at least as it seems to me, is most people think they should be allowed to do whatever they like, and treat others how ever they like; however when they are treated the same way by someone else in the say way they have treated others they moan, get hurt and angry. Socrates made the point I'm trying to make along time ago and far more elequontly; "Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others". That is of course the negative; Jesus articulated it as a positive 'Love your neighbours as yourself'.



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Old 04-20-2008, 11:59 AM   #17
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Er, shouldn't this thread be in Kavar's Corner? I assume that paedophilia is a serious enough topic to debate and discuss over, no?
I never intended for this to be a full out discussion, thats why I put it in the other board.

I like my Sunkist (a orange soda/fanta drink). I always have a urge to go get a can out of the fridge. I resist that urge by thinking about what other drinks I could be drinking, so I don't crave Sunkist anymore.

As I've never been a pedophile and don't know what they're thinking, but why can't they think about adults instead of children like I do with my Sunkist?

They expect others to help them. We can't help them, they have to help themselves.
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Old 04-20-2008, 12:42 PM   #18
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As I've never been a pedophile and don't know what they're thinking, but why can't they think about adults instead of children like I do with my Sunkist?
Bad example, try asking yourself why you can't think about guys like you think about girls.(If you are homosexual, ask the same question the other way round)


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Old 04-20-2008, 01:58 PM   #19
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Wow...a debate about the morality of raping children. I just lost a big notch of respect for this forum. What the hell is wrong with you people? You don't have a 'right' to fulfill your sexual desires! That's a desire, and as we all know, nobody gets everything they want. On the other hand, getting raped is a clear violation of your rights, and given that a child is not developed sufficiently to give consent, sex with a child is always rape. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go vomit.
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Old 04-20-2008, 02:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Agreed, but the question is, should a person not have a right to fulfill his sexual desires?
Certainly, but like anything else that right stops when it violates another’s rights. So they do not completely sexual fulfillment, they can get over it. Life is not about getting all your desires fulfilled. Life involves disappointments. How many people actual have their sexual desires fulfilled? Why would his or her desire outweigh the right everybody has to be a child? Protect those that cannot protect (or will not protect themselves), like children and the elderly, is the job of everyone within a society.

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Wow...a debate about the morality of raping children.
What debate? There is no argument known to man, that would make me even give me reason to pause on my belief that is the sickest form abuse known to man. Anyone that would take advantage of an innocent’s trust or abuse those that cannot protect themselves is the dredge of society. They do not deserve our sympathy they deserve our wrath. Our sympathy should be reserved for their victims.


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Old 04-20-2008, 02:43 PM   #21
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What debate? There is no argument known to man, that would make me even give me reason to pause on my belief that is the sickest form abuse known to man. Anyone that would take advantage of an innocent’s trust or abuse those that cannot protect themselves is the dredge of society. They do not deserve our sympathy they deserve our wrath. Our sympathy should be reserved for their victims.
I shall quote myself.

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once someone has offended, I think they should be brought to account for their actions and not given the chance to re-offend.
Pedophelia and Rape are probably the two worst crimes one human can purpetrate on another (as well as murdering the child of a parent). And those who do such things should be locked up for the safety of society however....

Forgiveness is vital as the alternative is hate and consider what that does; Bitterness, blame anger and hatred; for humans hatred only destroys the hater; the object of their hatred is either unaware or doesn’t care that they are hated. People should let go of negative emotions such as these; it will only lead down a dark path, as the hater will only become the hated after they do that which caused them to hate in the first place. It only forms a destructive circle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan7
Personally I suspect pedophiles are a mixture of genes, nurture and environment. We should be careful not to dehumanise, these poor individuals as while their crimes are repugnant they are still people, often who themsevles were abused as children.



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Old 04-20-2008, 02:58 PM   #22
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Let me rephrase, nothing said by anyone will make me feel sorry for someone that violated a child. I do feel sorry for those that are attracted to child, yet overcome their urge to harm a child.

I have no hate towards anyone. Forgiveness is fine and something I strongly believe in. I’m all for forgiving even a pedophile, however forgiving has nothing to do with forgetting. Forgiving also does not mean the pedophile has to be released from prison. They can be forgiven, yet still be kept off the streets where they cannot harm another child.


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Old 04-20-2008, 03:30 PM   #23
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For those of you who've been posting here already and as a result might not see my note in the first post that I just added, please read. This in no way means it's a problem right now. I'm taking pre-emptive action to prevent potential problems down the road.

Pedophilia is a very challenging subject for a PG-13 site. Be careful about how descriptive you get about actions--if it's too descriptive it will be deleted, and if you abuse that you will get sanctioned. Do not link to sites promoting pedophilia, or other inappropriate sites.

The staff will make the judgment call on what's appropriate. If you have any questions about whether a post or link will be allowed, please PM one of us and we'll be happy to look it over and work with you on it. If you feel a post has gone over the line, PLEASE use the 'report post' function--that is the single fastest way for most of us to get the notification of a problem post.

This is a public forum. If you happen to post something here that can get you in legal hot water, I'm not going to be sorry one bit if the authorities come knocking on your door.

Yes, I know some of this sounds strict, but there is very little wiggle room with this particular subject.

Thanks.


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Old 04-20-2008, 09:46 PM   #24
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Pedophelia is in the same category as rape for a good reason. It is having intimate relations with someone who is either unwilling or unable to give consent. Having relations with an incapacitated person is rape, because the person isn't able to give consent. A child is not able to give consent as their rights are restricted. They are not independant.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:48 PM   #25
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Yes, I know some of this sounds strict, but there is very little wiggle room with this particular subject.
Exactly why I'm not intending on discussing it in detail... I'll only say that I agree that it is not their right to do such things to a child just because they are a pedophile and that is their sexual instinct to do so...


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Old 04-21-2008, 03:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Sorry, but their 'right' to be horny doesn't override my kids', or any kids', rights to an upbringing safe from being damaged by these predators. Their actions are reprehensible and they need to be stopped from harming children.
QFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Agreed, but the question is, should a person not have a right to fulfil his sexual desires? And if he should, and these two rights overlap, which should override the other (if at all) and on what basis?
Put yourself in the child's shoes. One on hand, you have someone who just wants pleasure, and on the other, you're looking at permanent emotional scars.



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But evening is the great brightening dawn
when crested cocks crow all through the tall city
and evening is the whole day
for those without their lovers

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Old 04-21-2008, 04:14 AM   #27
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I believe that it is possible to change your sexual preferences if you really put your mind to it. I don't buy that people who love children are born with some sort of gene that makes them love people under the age of 12. At best, I think there might be some inherent attraction to the immature look, but that can be found in adults, there are indeed adults who still look child-like.

I think that they do have a right to be attracted to children if they so feel that they do, but in the same context, they must understand that the law says that children are incapable of making such kinds of sexual decisions. And therefore, much as you may be attracted to kids, such a relationship is never going to happen.

I mean, my grandpa and my mother were 10 years apart, she was 15 at the time they met. Sure, things were different back in the 1930's and 40's, but the point is really that sometimes you just have work within societal bounds.

But people who molest kids, there's just no excuse for that, it is, in short, the inability to control yourself when you see the thing that turns you on. If a hot girl who's 25 walks down the street, it is called rape if you do the nasty without her consent. The same thing applies to kids, since kids can't give consent, it is always bad.

I may, as much as anyone, accept that there is a possibility to be truly attracted to children, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or approve of it or even tolerate it.


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Old 04-21-2008, 04:49 AM   #28
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It's irrelevant if they realize the only thing that gets them off is a child. It's still wrong. I'm sorry for whatever damaged their systems so that they don't have appropriate sex drives, but it's still wrong. Why? A child can't choose to have sex or not sex in the case of pedophiles, and a child's sexual organs are not developed enough at younger ages to even have sex. If you have sex with a younger child, you damage their internal organs. That doesn't even begin to address the psychological damage done of forcing a child to have sex.

Yeah, we humans in general want sex, but it needs to be in the appropriate context. Pedophiles don't get the right to indulge their 'needs' at the expense of a child's health and safety. Sorry, but their 'right' to be horny doesn't override my kids', or any kids', rights to an upbringing safe from being damaged by these predators. Their actions are reprehensible and they need to be stopped from harming children.
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I did not say that pedophiles should have a free ticket due to a problem they have. I simply said that it is a problem worth pitying.

I pity a man who kills his wife and is going to end up in jail for the rest of his life. I pity the kid who gets drunk and drives his car into another car, killing someone else. I pity the woman that gets over run by stress and kills her children. I pity the people who can only grow an emotional and physical attachment to a child.

No matter how sick it may sound, put yourself in the shoes of both sides of a problem. Both the victim and the attacker.

The victim gets the sympathy and love due to them being... well... the victim. Obviously.

The pedophile is a pedophile due to birth, upbringing, life experience, all of the above, etc. No matter how freakishly sick their activities are, I still feel pity for them. It is easy to say "Just don't do it. Just avoid it." to a pedophile, but putting that into action is harder done than said.

Yes it goes over natural rights. Yes it scars people. Yes it hurts and kills many. I am not denying that. What I am saying is that these people can only get off to children. No matter how sick that may be, that is how it is. Sex, both physical and mental, is a hard thing for one to resist their entire life. Lock them up and throw away the key, or get try and get them help... but from the information I know, curing pedophilia is a very long process that very few end up succeeding in.

That is something worth pitying. Someone who is unfortunate enough to grab one of many short straws of life and get thrown in with the rest of us.

Does that mean that pedophiles are any less of a problem? No, it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
Let me rephrase, nothing said by anyone will make me feel sorry for someone that violated a child. I do feel sorry for those that are attracted to child, yet overcome their urge to harm a child.

I have no hate towards anyone. Forgiveness is fine and something I strongly believe in. I’m all for forgiving even a pedophile, however forgiving has nothing to do with forgetting. Forgiving also does not mean the pedophile has to be released from prison. They can be forgiven, yet still be kept off the streets where they cannot harm another child.
That sums up by thoughts very well.

I feel sorry for them in the same way I feel sorry for someone with anger issue that attacks someone. Sure, they have a probably worth pitying, but that doesn't override the fact they attacked someone.

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Originally Posted by Web Rider
I believe that it is possible to change your sexual preferences if you really put your mind to it.
I have experience, a number of friends and family, and life accounts that say otherwise. Some people may be able to move around, but I'd say to many of them that they are simply in denial, or trying desperately to conform to a social standard.

I believe for most people that willingly changing your sexual preference is about as easy as willing yourself to have different colored skin. Sure, you can put yourself into denial or use paint... but that doesn't change the fact you can't will your skin to be blue.

That, however, is a different topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider
I think that they do have a right to be attracted to children if they so feel that they do, but in the same context, they must understand that the law says that children are incapable of making such kinds of sexual decisions. And therefore, much as you may be attracted to kids, such a relationship is never going to happen.
Find me a pedophile that would say that they are happy to have the "right" to only be attracted to children, only be able to get off to children, and only feel a close bond towards children. Find me a pedophile that would gladly welcome being a pedophile again if they could be born anew. Find me a pedophile that would outright refuse an insta-cure to their sexual preference.

The "Well, they do it because they want to" argument falls flat on its face when you realize that many of them don't want it. Who would want to only be attracted to something that would cause them to become social outcasts, lead them to jail, and then lead to the very high probability of being killed in prison? Pedophiles are the most highly murdered people of any inmates at a prison. The are quite possibly the most hated people in our society.

Even if you do somehow restrain yourself, if you've been caught before then your life is -over-. Nobody is going to want to hire you. Nobody is going to want to live near you. You'll be an outcast for the rest of your natural life and beyond.

And if you do restrain yourself forever... then what? You are still attracted to children. How do you have a normal relationship with someone your age when they are not someone you can be attracted to? You would never be able to have children, and you might not ever tell your partner if fear of them snitching on you and/or leaving you. There have been cases of supposedly cured pedophiles molesting their children years and years later, after being with a spouse for a long time.

I would put money on the bet that the list of pedophiles that would refuse to be "normal" is very small. I would put money on the bet that very few people willingly let themselves become abhorred outcasts of society by willing themselves to be attracted to children.

I believe many of them do understand the laws. That is why they try to avoid being caught by kidnapping and/or turning the child submissive to them. It is quite obvious that it is illegal. If it wasn't, then they wouldn't have to be so secret about it.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:02 AM   #29
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I'll use another group with a similar degree of addiction, but different area. It is one I know well.

Alchoholism is a strong desire to drink and in fact become an actual dependance. After a long enough time you get physically ill when you are deprived of it. Once the problem is identified, you can live with it, get help, or demand that society just accept you as you are. Alchoholics when they realize they have a problem generally try to get help. They join a group and help eachother avoid the temptation and council newer members on how to remain clean. They don't form groups to share secret desires, and contemplate how to get away with it.

Perhaps that's the real problem. They don't make an attempt at getting better. Instead pedophiles work counter to that. They want society to change it's rules to allow it. That's probably where my lack of sympathy for them comes from.
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Old 04-21-2008, 06:53 AM   #30
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They don't make an attempt at getting better.
Really? So all those trying to find a wife or something else aren't really trying. The fact that they often don't seek prefessional help might have something to with the way they are stigmatized.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:28 AM   #31
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Really? So all those trying to find a wife or something else aren't really trying. The fact that they often don't seek prefessional help might have something to with the way they are stigmatized.
No, they aren't. Step one: Admit you have a problem. Keeping that from even your wife and internalizing means you aren't really admitting you have a problem. Step two is getting help with your addiction. Some might hit step 1, but never go beyond that.
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Old 04-21-2008, 07:42 AM   #32
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Would you tell others about your problem considering the consequences?


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 04-21-2008, 08:29 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mur'phon
Would you tell others about your problem considering the consequences?
ABSOLUTELY! When I had my drug problem I DID in fact tell people I had a problem. I told them that I needed help. I got counceling, and while I haven't been to a meeting in a while, I've been clean and sober for 9 years. And drug addiction could have cost me my clearance. Meaning I would lose my job. It is never an easy decision to admit to others you have a problem. But until you make that decision, you won't get the help you need.
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:45 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I did not say that pedophiles should have a free ticket due to a problem they have. I simply said that it is a problem worth pitying.
I most certainly did not misunderstand, or I wouldn't have said "I'm sorry for whatever damaged their systems so that they don't have appropriate sex drives". You're the one who said if you were in the same boat you'd probably end up in jail. An aberrant sex drive doesn't give someone a free pass to destroy the lives of others. It's not like pedophiles wake up one day and say "OMG, I just learned it's a crime to molest a child!! What am I going to do now?" Molesters know long before they even perpetrate their crime(s) that it's wrong.
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I pity a man....I pity the people who can only grow an emotional and physical attachment to a child.
I pity what got them to that point, because it's usually bad. However, they had the choice to commit or not commit their crimes. There are times when my kids drive me up a wall because we're all having horrible days and are stressed out. I could choose to hurt them, or I could choose to walk away or send them to their rooms until I regain control. I choose the latter for both their sake and mine.

A pedophile has to make a lot of choices along the way to get to the actual act with a child. He could stop at anyone of those points and get help. If he or she can use a computer to lure children, s/he can use a computer to get help online, too.

There's a huge difference between showing someone pity and absolving them of responsibility. I can pity them, but I will still hold them accountable for their actions.

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Originally Posted by True_Avery
No matter how sick it may sound, put yourself in the shoes of both sides of a problem. Both the victim and the attacker.
I can understand them. I don't _agree_ with them. I refuse to allow them to avoid the consequences of their actions.

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Originally Posted by True_Avery
The pedophile is a pedophile due to birth, upbringing, life experience, all of the above, etc. No matter how freakishly sick their activities are, I still feel pity for them. It is easy to say "Just don't do it. Just avoid it." to a pedophile, but putting that into action is harder done than said.
There is help. Pedophiles know it's a crime. They know it's wrong. No one is holding a gun to their heads to go have sex with a child. They can choose to get help or they can choose to commit crimes. Too many choose the latter option.

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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Sex, both physical and mental, is a hard thing for one to resist their entire life.
It's hard. It's not impossible.
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Lock them up and throw away the key, or get try and get them help... but from the information I know, curing pedophilia is a very long process that very few end up succeeding in.
The recidivism rate on pedophilia is awful. Unfortunately pedophiles who won't change their behaviors have to be separated from society in order to protect the innocent. It sucks, yes, but the only other alternative, allowing that person to continue to molest children, is entirely unacceptable. Pity or not, there is no win-win situation with pedophilia--we're having to deal with choosing the lesser of two evils.

I'd love to see a way to identify pedophiles before they commit crimes rather than after. It'd be much better to get them help before they and their potential victims are hurt.
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
That is something worth pitying. Someone who is unfortunate enough to grab one of many short straws of life and get thrown in with the rest of us.
We all get some breaks and we all get some short straws in lfe. Some get better breaks and some get shorter straws. Life is great sometimes, and life totally sucks sometimes. So I can appreciate their difficulties, but I don't have to agree with their actions in response to their troubles.

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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Find me a pedophile that would say that they are happy to have the "right" to only be attracted to children, only be able to get off to children, and only feel a close bond towards children. Find me a pedophile that would gladly welcome being a pedophile again if they could be born anew. Find me a pedophile that would outright refuse an insta-cure to their sexual preference.
There are websites where people not only accept pedophilia but openly flaunt their choice and want it to be accepted as a mainstream sexual preference. I refuse to give them any advertisement here, but if you're dying to know about it you can PM me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
The "Well, they do it because they want to" argument falls flat on its face when you realize that many of them don't want it. Who would want to only be attracted to something that would cause them to become social outcasts, lead them to jail, and then lead to the very high probability of being killed in prison? Pedophiles are the most highly murdered people of any inmates at a prison. The are quite possibly the most hated people in our society.
They do it because they want to satisfy their base desires and don't think they'll get caught. They don't care that the rest of society thinks they're wrong. They are likely the most hated people in society because they prey on the very children who desperately need our protection from physical, mental, and psychological damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
Even if you do somehow restrain yourself, if you've been caught before then your life is -over-. Nobody is going to want to hire you. Nobody is going to want to live near you. You'll be an outcast for the rest of your natural life and beyond.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Avery
And if you do restrain yourself forever... then what? You are still attracted to children.
So?


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Old 04-21-2008, 10:47 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I most certainly did not misunderstand, or I wouldn't have said "I'm sorry for whatever damaged their systems so that they don't have appropriate sex drives". You're the one who said if you were in the same boat you'd probably end up in jail. An aberrant sex drive doesn't give someone a free pass to destroy the lives of others. It's not like pedophiles wake up one day and say "OMG, I just learned it's a crime to molest a child!! What am I going to do now?" Molesters know long before they even perpetrate their crime(s) that it's wrong.
Agreed, I will also quote myself from earlier, since the point seemed to have be ignored;

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Originally Posted by jonathan7
Sex should be consensual, when it is not an individual does not have the right to fullfill their 'sexual' needs. We live in a society that seems to think that just because you 'feel' something it should give you the right to do it. With the same logic applied, if I'm a serial killer, why shouldn't I be allowed to go and kill someone, as that is how I get my sexual satisfaction. The problem with modern society, at least as it seems to me, is most people think they should be allowed to do whatever they like, and treat others how ever they like; however when they are treated the same way by someone else in the say way they have treated others they moan, get hurt and angry. Socrates made the point I'm trying to make along time ago and far more elequontly; "Do not do to others what angers you if done to you by others". That is of course the negative; Jesus articulated it as a positive 'Love your neighbours as yourself'.
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Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
I pity what got them to that point, because it's usually bad. However, they had the choice to commit or not commit their crimes. There are times when my kids drive me up a wall because we're all having horrible days and are stressed out. I could choose to hurt them, or I could choose to walk away or send them to their rooms until I regain control. I choose the latter for both their sake and mine.
*Puts on Yoda voice* 'Control, control, you must learn control!'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
A pedophile has to make a lot of choices along the way to get to the actual act with a child. He could stop at anyone of those points and get help. If he or she can use a computer to lure children, s/he can use a computer to get help online, too.

There's a huge difference between showing someone pity and absolving them of responsibility. I can pity them, but I will still hold them accountable for their actions.
Agreed, I feel sorry for pedophiles, but once they have offended I do not think they should be given the chance to re-offend. I think by violating a child, they loose the right to their freedoms.



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Old 04-21-2008, 11:43 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
I have experience, a number of friends and family, and life accounts that say otherwise. Some people may be able to move around, but I'd say to many of them that they are simply in denial, or trying desperately to conform to a social standard.

I believe for most people that willingly changing your sexual preference is about as easy as willing yourself to have different colored skin. Sure, you can put yourself into denial or use paint... but that doesn't change the fact you can't will your skin to be blue.
I don't really mean like going from men to women, I mean adjusting what you find attractive. Ie: if you find hairy men attractive, but can't find hairy men around, you can adjust your preferences till you don't like hairy men as much.


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Find me a pedophile that would say that they are happy to have the "right" to only be attracted to children, only be able to get off to children, and only feel a close bond towards children. Find me a pedophile that would gladly welcome being a pedophile again if they could be born anew. Find me a pedophile that would outright refuse an insta-cure to their sexual preference.
I'm sure there are some, because some pedophiles are just really twisted people, they are rapists for children. And I'm sure that groups like NAMBALA would probably be able to find you a good list of people who understand that what they want they simply can't have.

Quote:
The "Well, they do it because they want to" argument falls flat on its face when you realize that many of them don't want it. Who would want to only be attracted to something that would cause them to become social outcasts, lead them to jail, and then lead to the very high probability of being killed in prison? Pedophiles are the most highly murdered people of any inmates at a prison. The are quite possibly the most hated people in our society.
No, that doesn't make any sense at all. You're saying that people who are pedophiles have no ability to keep it in their pants of keep their hands to themselves. I chose not grope girls and slap their butts, people with an attraction to children can chose to do the same. I'm not referring to their sexual orientation, but to their actions. There is no law saying you can't be attracted to children, there are laws however about child pornography and molestation. Be a social outcast? Probably, go to jail? only if you break the law.

Quote:
Even if you do somehow restrain yourself, if you've been caught before then your life is -over-. Nobody is going to want to hire you. Nobody is going to want to live near you. You'll be an outcast for the rest of your natural life and beyond.
yes, just like all the other people who were unable to control themselves sexually.

Quote:
And if you do restrain yourself forever... then what? You are still attracted to children. How do you have a normal relationship with someone your age when they are not someone you can be attracted to? You would never be able to have children, and you might not ever tell your partner if fear of them snitching on you and/or leaving you. There have been cases of supposedly cured pedophiles molesting their children years and years later, after being with a spouse for a long time.
You're playing at hypotheticals here. Just as you're not going to know how many people are deterred from crime by the death penalty, as nobody is going to admit to it, you're not going to know which pedophiles started a family, raised their kids well, and never talked about it, because likewise they're not going to admit to it.
Yes, some pedophiles who start a family are unable to control themselves, but since those that are will never admit to being pedophiles, we have no way to know.

Quote:
I would put money on the bet that the list of pedophiles that would refuse to be "normal" is very small. I would put money on the bet that very few people willingly let themselves become abhorred outcasts of society by willing themselves to be attracted to children.
The same could be said of homosexuals 40+ years ago. Which begs the question of course: does that mean pedophilia is only bad because society says so?

Quote:
I believe many of them do understand the laws. That is why they try to avoid being caught by kidnapping and/or turning the child submissive to them. It is quite obvious that it is illegal. If it wasn't, then they wouldn't have to be so secret about it.
Er no...those people do not understand the laws.
Lets assume Joe likes women. Joe desires women at all levels, but Joe knows he can't go out and just feel one up in the middle of the mall. So Joe kidnaps and rapes women, or tortures them until they're submissive to him.

Did Joe show an understanding of the law?
No, Joe did not. While he may have showed a partial understanding of the law, he either failed to comprehend the full extent of the law, or simply ignored the fact that kidnapping somebody is against the law. And that molesting/raping them in his home is also against the law, and that forcing them to become submissive is still against the law.

And understanding of the law requires understanding of ALL the laws, not just a few. You still get a ticket for speeding when you're doing 60 in a 45 zone, even if you didn't see the sign.


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Old 04-21-2008, 10:20 PM   #37
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Good job Jebus! I expect that this man was arrested? What a dumb question, of course he was arrested. Sorry. Anyways, one less pedophile on the "streets".

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Old 04-26-2008, 10:17 PM   #38
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As a mother of two girls and the grandmother of a six year old boy, I would rather see the pedophiles put in with the general population of a prison than kept by themselves. They wouldn't survive long at all in the general population of a prison.


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Old 04-26-2008, 10:35 PM   #39
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As a mother of two girls and the grandmother of a six year old boy, I would rather see the pedophiles put in with the general population of a prison than kept by themselves. They wouldn't survive long at all in the general population of a prison.
Thats really civilised! It makes about as much sense as responding to a genocide, by commiting genocide, on those who did the first genocide.



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Old 04-26-2008, 11:14 PM   #40
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Thats really civilised!
There is nothing civilized about it. It is the order of nature. Look at the first thing JediRevan wrote about that she is a mother and a grandmother, I believe she is putting herself in the shoes of the victims parent or grandparents. She is protecting her young, just like any good parent would do. So it does not have to make logical sense, like a mocking bird protecting its nest by a attacking a two hundred pound man, but it is the way of nature. I cannot say I wouldn’t react just as harshly if such an act like that was against someone close to me. I would like to believe that I am above that, but I just don’t know.


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