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Old 06-17-2008, 02:03 PM   #1
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Useless characters in TSL?

Spurred on by discussions in other theads, I feel compelled to ask this question - Who do you think are the most useless companions in TSL?

Mine are T3, Bao-Dur and Disciple. I find them uninspiring and pointless.

We all must have our favorites, and i'm interested in seeing everyone's choices.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:06 PM   #2
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Every one you listed has their uses. In fact, only Bao-Dur when turned into a Jedi Guardian do become useless. He stop getting his absurd skill points at every level and is a very ineffective melee fighter no matter what you do.


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Old 06-17-2008, 02:21 PM   #3
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I never thought any of them ωere useless per se, since the game isn't particularly difficult. Some I liked more than others, but in the end who I took with me was determined more by who I wanted along for their characters, rather than for their skills or lack thereof.


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Old 06-17-2008, 02:23 PM   #4
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I never thought any of them ωere useless per se, since the game isn't particularly difficult. Some I liked more than others, but in the end who I took with me was determined more by who I wanted along for their characters, rather than for their skills or lack thereof.
Agreed, though Bao-Dur didn't really have much character to him either. He's as close to useless as you can get.

As for T3, he's the obligatory astro-type droid. Everyone loves to have one, even if you don't use it.

Oh, and G0-T0. Now there's a worthless character.


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Old 06-17-2008, 02:32 PM   #5
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Go-To easily...



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Old 06-17-2008, 02:40 PM   #6
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Here are the certain party members that I find useless:

HK-47: Granted, he's funny, but as a party member, I didn't use him. It doesn't help that he's broken for the first half of the game.

G0-T0: T3-M4 is much better and a lot more useful. Plus, HK is the better dark side droid.

Visas: Pointless party member. That and a general bias I have against the character.

Other than that, I pretty much use everyone.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:10 PM   #7
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Is it G0-T0 or T3-M4 that makes computer spikes?


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Old 06-17-2008, 03:19 PM   #8
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^ Teethree.

I'd have to agree, althought I don't consider GO-TO to be the worst character, he's by far the most useless.


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Old 06-17-2008, 04:45 PM   #9
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Actually, I find Kreia a little more useless than Visas, just might be me, though. She only has one use, in my opinion, and that is her Force sight, which you also get from Visas, yourself. And it's a useful thing, sometimes. The second one I find useless, or nearly so, is HK-47. But he is alright to banter with. Kreia isn't worth the headache, somedays, in my opinion.


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Old 06-17-2008, 05:00 PM   #10
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:07 PM   #11
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Go-To, T3, and Bao-Dur are the people that I hardly ever use. So, I guess that you could say that they are useless.

I like HK, but as Diego Varen pointed out, you only get to use him for about half of the game....

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Old 06-17-2008, 07:30 PM   #12
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G0-T0, Disciple and Bao-Dur.

G0-T0 is absolute rubbish at combat! Even with good blasters nothing seems to work right...

Disciple: "Oh, Exile, I must adore you in every single possible way since you represent perfection to me..." <--- Clear?

Bao-Dur: An interesting enough character, except he's just so darn limited in his armors! At least, if I remember right, it's been a long time since I've played TSL. That and there is next to no dialog after a certain point. It's just "Nothing, nevermind."
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:17 PM   #13
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Disciple may be annoying at times, but he certainly is not useless. He kicks some serious butt when jedified. Other than Handmaiden and maybe Kreia, I find Disciple to be the best party member, combat-wise. Although I will admit that I use him sparingly because his dialogue is like nails scraping against the blackboard that is my brain.

Bao Dur when you look at his stats as a jedi, he is decent, but the armor restrictions really hurt his force ability. The lack of dexterity is also not great. But there is a mod to fix the no robe thing and whith a dexterity implant, he could be good. His chance to hit kinda sucks. But I cheat up upgrades to make it better.

I'll say my party, most useless to best: (1 being the worst and 10 the best)...

1) GOTO: Actually one of the more interesting, but underdeveloped (due to the cutting of M4-78) storylines, but TOTAL CRAP in combat. If I could bust him and selkl him for components I would.

2) T3-M4: More powerful in K2 but since most party members get good a skill points, I have no use for him.

3)I know I'm gonna get hell for this one but - Mandelore. That heavy armor that you just can't unequip. He lost the good Canderous vigor that was so cool in the first game

4) I guess Bao Dur because of the things mentioned above.

5) Visas: I love to use her and she has great dexterity but she dies so fast and for some reason gets fewer force points than a sentinel with her attributes.

6) Mira: Has quite a few nice bonuses like not triggering mines, and making grenades. A good ranged fighter. When jedified, she can a use a single blade decently. Her and Visas could really be switched around. Mira is above her because she does not die as quickly as Visas.

7) Atton: with a couple more intelligance points he could be a good skills person. Those heroic resolve feats are very useful. Not a very good jedi, but is effective with a single blade.

8) Disciple, is like the Handmaiden except not quite as powerful. Annoying but he can heal you and is a walking lab station.

9) Kreia, because she's...well Kreia. She has great attributes and can teach the exile a lot, getting him/her many bonuses. +the extra experience.

10) Handmaiden is a totally overpowered party member. She is awesome with melee weapons, and when jedified is practically unstoppable. Or at least she never dies for me. Handmaiden with a double saber= mucho damage.

Sorry for the novel.

~HOP



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Old 06-17-2008, 08:22 PM   #14
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Only G0-T0 is the really useless one. His special abilities involve Stealth and Demolitions, but neither is a class skill for him. And he has a lot of tricks to pull on droids...but you face 90% of your droid enemies before you can get G0-T0.

The others all have their uses. Though I've found Visas, Brianna, and HK to be less useful than most, but still more useful than most of the K1 party members. T3 was useless in K1, but he's probably the most powerful party member until level 10 or so.


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Old 06-17-2008, 09:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ForeverNight View Post
G0-T0, Disciple and Bao-Dur.

G0-T0 is absolute rubbish at combat! Even with good blasters nothing seems to work right...

Disciple: "Oh, Exile, I must adore you in every single possible way since you represent perfection to me..." <--- Clear?

Bao-Dur: An interesting enough character, except he's just so darn limited in his armors! At least, if I remember right, it's been a long time since I've played TSL. That and there is next to no dialog after a certain point. It's just "Nothing, nevermind."

IIRC, BD had few (if any) problems with armor, but rather couldn't wear robes if you made him a jedi.

As to uselessness, I rarely ever used T3, GOTO or Disciple in my party. Same pretty much goes for Kreia after Telos. I usually tried to switch the others around enough to bump them up to Jedi. Much of T3's/Goto's/Kreia's utility came more from on board conversations than anything else. Atton, BD, HK, Mandalore, Handmaiden and Mira probably got used the most in my games.


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Old 06-17-2008, 11:13 PM   #16
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I never used Kreia after Telos even though I consider her one of the stronger party members. Although I admire her cunning, I just want to feel like I have allies with me when I'm running around on a mission.

I mostly use Mira (cause she's my fav personality-wise), Atton, Handmaiden, Visas, and Bao. Never even use HK that much...I guess I like him more for dialogue.

It looks like everyone is in agreement that GOTO is the worst . Why they ever put a 3rd droid in the party is beyond me.



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Old 06-17-2008, 11:32 PM   #17
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I think the root of the problem lies more in said third droid allegedly being less useful or interesting than the other droids, rather thaη the fact that it is a third droid, which is obviously a rather minor detail.


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Old 06-18-2008, 12:19 AM   #18
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Arguably, all the non-jedi charachters had limited utility as you moved to higher levels.


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Old 06-18-2008, 12:21 AM   #19
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G0-T0 is the only useless character, simply because he is no good in combat. That and he has almost no plot involved with him besides when you first get him. Almost every character is useless besides Visas and Kriea, simply becuase htey are the only ones that use lightsabers, and are the best at lightsaber combat after all the rest of the party are jedified.

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Old 06-18-2008, 01:22 AM   #20
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I think the root of the problem lies more in said third droid allegedly being less useful or interesting than the other droids, rather thaη the fact that it is a third droid, which is obviously a rather minor detail.
Well the problem is that expert droids get fewer feat options than the other classes. Its not really that they get fewer feat points, its that they get less feats available to them. That said I would argue that it makes a huge difference that there is a third droid.

The expert droid class really has no versatlity. They are all skills with a few feats thrown in. The other classes in the game are more flexible. Like consular - do you want more damaging powers, or focus more on bonus giving powers. Even soldiers have more versatility than expert droid. With so many feat points to spend and the choice of ranged or melee weapons, which GOTO, being a droid does not have. T3 and GOTO are both expert droids and T3 has better skills, is better in combat, plus gets way higher attributes if you do the upgrades to him. Even without the upgrades (like Bao repairing him slightly) T3 has comparable to better attributes. GOTO as far as skills and combat, is a downgraded T3-M4.

All party members have strengths and weaknesses (except GOTO who only has the latter): Kreia has more force powers/points then say jedified Handmaiden. But she has better saber skills. But Bao has better skills than Both but less force than Kreia but usually more than HM. They all balance out. GOTO is just worse than everybody at everything except skills.

Wow that was a long tirade about a fictional character. But in conclusion, he sucks.

@ Da_man: I would argue that HM, Disciple, are better than Visas with sabers and every jedi except maybe Bao is better than Kreia with lightsabers.

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Old 06-18-2008, 02:28 PM   #21
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I had a lot of fun with G0-T0 when I used him my last playthrough. I pumped up his Intelligence to 20 so that he had enough points to add to every class skill plus stealth every level (and Dexterity, which was also 20 near the end). With Stealth Skill + Dexterity Bonus + Caution feats (which he can actually afford to take since he doesn't have much to choose from) he was stealthy enough to remain hidden throughout the game. Not having Demolitions doesn't matter unless you want to actually set mines yourself, since he doesn't trigger them, and I've never been a fan of stealth and mine myself. The combination of stealth and not setting off mines came in handy at times (Dxun revisit and Dantooine enclave). His other skills are as good if not better than other stealth users you have. Oh, and Scramble Droid doesn't deactivate your Stealth Field nor alert your target of your presence even if it fails, so there's some fun to be had there, though it is still unfortunate most of the droids you face are before you get him.

I don't see how T3 is better at combat. G0-T0 has his targetting module that gives him Improved ranged feats, T3 has his Shock Arm. The Shock Arm is nice, but it eventually becomes pretty mediocre since it caps off (and you can't use him all through Telos when it would still be at max power), while having some ranged feats is always useful. Yah, a renewable shield, but I find ranged enemies tend to shoot at my Exile a lot more than a ranged party member, so its not that great except for solo endeavors and Jedi opponents, which are rare except when you're forced to use different party members or no party members.

G0-T0's story confuses me, though. He's primarily Dark Side of course, and its Dark Side to ask him for rewards to stabilize the worlds, and yet if you follow the Dark Side story you actually destabilize both of the worlds he's worried about (and he says so as well), yet he still pays you.

I don't think any character is useless, really. Some are better than others, but they all have their advantages. But as far as the character who seems to get the worst perks... I'd actually say HK-47, despite being my second favorite character. Has a high Strength that is 100% useless for him, and he gets the lowest feat growth in the entire game. Sure, he gets a huge feat selection compared to the other droids, but that doesn't matter when he doesn't get enough feats to actually use them. Even his "innate" feats, the assassination protocols, are terrible. A chance (20% activation rate I believe), based on a chance (getting a critical), and it can be saved against on top of it all. His unique items would help, especially the assassination module, but of course they aren't even available in the game without cheats.
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Old 06-18-2008, 03:07 PM   #22
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if you follow the Dark Side story you actually destabilize both of the worlds he's worried about (and he says so as well), yet he still pays you.
Well, that could be a very twisted logic, but here is how I explain it:

G0-T0 wants the Republic to recover through solid bases in the Galaxy. Onderon and Dantooine are not such bases yet (Vaklu messes up with the Republic and delays the Restoration Project through the blockade which prevents the Ithorians to get fauna, and Dantooine needs A LOT of credits to become productive again), so you have two solutions:

1/ The Light Side one: Save the worlds. With Queen Talia, Onderon becomes ready to forget its customs to integrate fully to the Republic, so Telos will get restored in no time (since in the LS walkthrough, Czerka stops to mess up with the Ithorians)
And with the mercenaries gone, Dantooine has no obstacle on its path to wealth, It can make its farming resources grow again.

2/ The Dark Side one: "Cutting off the wounded limbs". Dantooine is wasting thousands of credits given by the Republic in a vain attempt to rebuild itself, while Azkul's men, overwhelming the pitiful militia, are about to slaughter the settlers? Fine, let it die, let the mercenaries take the planet and let's not waste any more credit in it.
The blockade on Onderon prevents the Ithorian from getting the fauna Telos needs, while Telos' restoration is critical for the Republic? Fine! Let's not waste time and money in this impasse and start looking for another planet able to give us such fauna.

While the game tells you Onderon's fauna is unique because its ferocity allows it to live in harsh conditions, I can't buy that the credits wasted in the blockade could not have been used to support some weaker fauna on Telos' surface.

I believe G0-T0 approves this last method, as you free the Republic from some big heavy ball and chains. That's why he rewards you for "destabilizing" these worlds: That obliged them to sever their ties to the Republic.


As to whether he's useless or not, I really don't think so. He's a great combat-oriented T3 with his Targeting Module.


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Old 06-18-2008, 06:37 PM   #23
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Makes sense. Though Onderon seems a bit too vital to "cut off", at least according to the sources through the game (Disciple and G0-T0 himself, plus the fact that the Harbinger was supposed to be going there to deal with the situation and that spy was there to report on the situation as well).

But if that's the case, they should have written his text to reflect that. As it is, when you get your reward for either of the two, he sounds like his rather pissed off with you. At least that's how it seemed to me. He goes on about how you destabilized them, and how it will hurt the Republic. And then after the conversation, boom, reward money. *shrug*
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Old 06-19-2008, 02:35 AM   #24
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Yeah it felt quite stupid, I suspect it is another thing spawned by the Christmas rush. And you're right, every single NPC (even the saving/loading screen) insists on how Onderon is vital to the Republic. What are we supposed to understand? :/


Anyway, I can't find any party member useless. There are just some I don't use, 'cause they are not the best in what they do.
T3 and G0-T0 are fine during fights and have great skills, but so does Bao, and since I prefer melee combat, I tend to forget those two.
HK has a great potential for mass slaughter, but Mira and Atton, with their Jedi feats and powers, just overpower him, so I let him too.

My party is usually Kreia+Visas when I need serious Jedi support or Kreia+Handmaiden/Disciple/twin-Gamo-bladed Mandalore when I need to get through enemy hordes. Guess I could use Hanharr too, but since I don't like Hanharr I just messed up with the scripts to get Mira instead \o/


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Old 06-19-2008, 03:06 AM   #25
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I used HK a lot in KotOR1, but the only time I put him in the party in TSL is for his dialogues. There's just not enough there for me to put him in my party over the other combat-oriented characters.

He's still better than G0-T0 though, who pretty much just sits on the Ebon Hawk the entire game for me.

If I didn't like Visas' voice and her visual design (I love her "robes"), I'd probably never bring her.

I actually use Bao-Dur sometimes--I like the look of the character and his loyalty--but I rarely use T3. There's definitely a good reason to put a skill-based character in your party sometimes--Dxun, Battle of Iziz, parts of Dantooine, etc.--but just not enough to get enough use out of 2-3 characters that serve primarily that purpose.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:52 PM   #26
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GO-TO I would say T3 but he is useful In some things like with security


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Old 06-19-2008, 04:56 PM   #27
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GO-TO I would say T3 but he is useful In some things like with security
G0-T0 does make security tunnelers though.


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Old 06-19-2008, 05:10 PM   #28
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G0-T0 does make security tunnelers though.
I never knew what they were (or used them) until TSL where the prologue says what it does.
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Old 06-19-2008, 05:23 PM   #29
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I never knew what they were (or used them) until TSL where the prologue says what it does.
They're practically useless in my opinion...beaten the game several times without touching one.


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Old 06-19-2008, 05:26 PM   #30
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I think the only times I have used one was in the prologue, selling it for money, and breaking it down into components.
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Old 06-19-2008, 05:37 PM   #31
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The Exile. That guy/girl is so stuck up, always walking around, the only one who's never not around, i just feel like killing that person!

J/k.

It's G0-T0.
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:38 PM   #32
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They're practically useless in my opinion...beaten the game several times without touching one.
I've had to use them a couple times. There are a couple of lockers in Visquis' lair that are really tough to open (the ones in the rooms on either side of the arena), a container or two in the Onderon Palace, and maybe some of the doors on the Ravager. On Difficult, that is. On anything below that, everything is pretty easily handled.

They are largely useless, though, I agree. You can always bash / lightsaber / mine anything you can't handle security-wise, and there are quite a few items that grant signifigant bonuses to Security. Plus the large majority just don't have a very high rating. 5 security is probably enough to open most doors and such (Mira could open all the doors and containers in Visquis' lair with her starting Security skill alone, even the ones listed as "High Security", minus the aforementioned containers).
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:58 PM   #33
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I've had to use them a couple times. There are a couple of lockers in Visquis' lair that are really tough to open (the ones in the rooms on either side of the arena), a container or two in the Onderon Palace, and maybe some of the doors on the Ravager. On Difficult, that is. On anything below that, everything is pretty easily handled.

They are largely useless, though, I agree. You can always bash / lightsaber / mine anything you can't handle security-wise, and there are quite a few items that grant signifigant bonuses to Security. Plus the large majority just don't have a very high rating. 5 security is probably enough to open most doors and such (Mira could open all the doors and containers in Visquis' lair with her starting Security skill alone, even the ones listed as "High Security", minus the aforementioned containers).
Yeah, I just used mines for those certain containers I couldn't bash.

Security is a useless skill, but it is a godsend for stealthers that want to sneak by and open the lockers without bashing them.

But then TSL makes it so you can use mines. I'm not sure, but does setting mines on locked containers make you noticeable?
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Old 06-19-2008, 09:07 PM   #34
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But then TSL makes it so you can use mines. I'm not sure, but does setting mines on locked containers make you noticeable?
I don't believe it does.

GO-TO, mostly I can't stand his grating voice and almost every battle I'm in descends into melee combat where a droid with a blaster is useless.

T3-M4, yeah, well, pretty much the same reasons as GO-TO, except he sets off mines too and his conversation is even worse.

HK-47, fun and entertaining, but again, being a melee person, not much use.

Atton, dang if he just doesn't always give me some excuse to want to kill him. Ah, the blessings of Mask of the Betrayer, you can kill your party members.


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Old 06-25-2008, 10:49 PM   #35
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Who do you think are the most useless companions in TSL?
Atton was too annoying to bother turning.

Disciple was too preachy and annoying. I only used him on the Dxun temple raide.

Bao-Dur was only useful on Telos.

HK-47 was left disassembled 90% of the time.

Go-To was too large and cluncky. Since he was disproportionate, and his excuse to capture the Exile was lame, I usually left him on the ship.



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Old 07-07-2008, 02:39 AM   #36
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If you ask me, every character in TSL is quite useless. None have a great story behind them and many are too limited.

Just one question: I don't know why everyone seems to hate the Disciple. I don't care much one way or another, but why is that? If it's because he practically gives himself to the Exile, then I would agree. Is there more to it than that?

Anyway... I wouldn't mind having Goto instead of T3 or HK. When his intelligence is pushed up a level, he can be the best of the three droids. The cloak and targeting module alone make him an excellent gun platform.

I use Canderous frequently because he has all those feats at his disposal.

I rarely use Bao, T3, Kreia, Disciple, or Mira(due to a technical problem when she becomes a jedi). I still haven't been able to get Brianna with the female mod... otherwise she would always be used. I tend to favor two jedi-one ranged teams, so I really don't care much who I use... as long as it fits the team.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:11 AM   #37
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I agree on Disciple, I didn't have a problem with him. :/

T3 is useful for the begining, but he gets left behind around Telos. It has been said before, but once your characters begin using Force Powers, and inhance their abilities, the droids get left behind. Also, so does Canderous.

HK-47- eh, never really liked him that much. In terms of fighting he is possibly one of my worst.

Bao-Dur- All he says is 'Yes, General?' 70% of the time.
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:29 AM   #38
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I never really used the droids apart from unleashing T3 on the other droids on Peragus and Nar Shaddaa. I imagine HK's alright in combat if you give him the right feats, but by the time you get him half of the crew have been turned into Jedi. As for G0-T0, I'd only use him as a skills droid. And by the time you get him T3 will probably have all the skills you need. Plus, I normally play a Sentinel, so I never actually -need- either of them.

As much as I like Visas, I don't get why she's a Sentinel. Sentinels, to me, are "skills Jedi"... but Visas has low Int. So she lacks the extra combat feats of a Guardian, the extra Force powers of a Consular, and doesn't take advantage of the extra skill points of a Sentinel. What gives?

And Bao-Dur, another "skills character" (Even though you'd think we only need one "skills character", and in my games it's normally me). Why is he a Guardian? He can't fight his way out of a paper bag!

That said, none of them are -entirely- useless, in that it won't mean certain death if your party has Bao-Dur instead of Mira. Though I'd challenge any normally levelled player to do Dxun with Bao-Dur and the droids (Not that it'd be -impossible-... just frustrating).
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