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Old 07-03-2008, 11:06 AM   #1
Jae Onasi
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"Attacker Told Me 'No Decency, No God'"

Kevin McKeither was found guilty of raping a 77 year old woman. This is what the victim told police he said when he raped her: "The victim says she asked her attacker: "Don't you have any decency?" And the man told her, "you stupid woman, there is no decency. There is no God."

There are multiple aspects of this that can be looked at, so I'll just leave it rather free-form at this point and say "Discuss". I reserve the right as thread-starter to make it more specific in the future, however.


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Old 07-03-2008, 11:18 AM   #2
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Hmm... make you wonder what the world's coming to, doesn't it?

I may not believe in god, but I do have a sense of decency. Anybody who thinks that they can simply get away with this kind of vile behaviour needs locking up. For a long time.






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Old 07-03-2008, 11:23 AM   #3
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Well............you're quite the bomb thrower there, Jae. I imagine someone here might accuse you of thinking all atheists are latent rapists. Agree w/above. Sometimes wonder if castration wouldn't be all that inhumane afterall (we'd still be letting him live ).


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Old 07-03-2008, 11:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
I imagine someone here might accuse you of thinking all atheists are latent rapists.
xD That's a ridiculous stretch... but you're probably right that someone would.

Sounds to me that it's not a case of him being a rapist because he's atheist, but being a rapist because he's got some mental/emotional issues. But then again most rapists have some kind of mental or emotional problem.

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Old 07-03-2008, 11:39 AM   #5
Jae Onasi
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Well, I don't believe my atheist friends are latent rapists, so no, I don't think all atheists are latent rapists. If you're asking if I think any atheists here are latent rapists, I'd say no, unless they prove themselves otherwise by raping someone (God forbid).

If he had raped her because she happened to be a different religion from him, would that have made a difference to you? Would it have made a difference in how the press covered the story?


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Last edited by Jae Onasi; 07-03-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:44 AM   #6
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I'm sure the press will spin that angle regardless of whether it's the reason or not. It doesn't seem like it was, though.

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Old 07-03-2008, 12:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
"the bulky, jittery defendant shook his head and said loudly: 'F---.'"
"I didn't rape nobody. I didn't do it."
"I didn't do sh--! I have to go to jail for this,"
"you stupid woman, there is no decency. There is no God."
One of these things is not like the others.
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:20 PM   #8
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It seems to me that the rapist is a purposefully ignorant person who simply doesn't care to look at anything beyond what will excuse his actions. At 47, his denial of "decency" as it were something necessarily connected with God is simply incomprehensible-- even I had a relatively good idea of this a few years ago, and I'm still less than half his age. I expect his total education in philosophy was reading the cover of Time: Is God dead?

He has no excuse and deserves no sympathy.


"Words are deeds." - Wittgenstein
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:33 PM   #9
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That is a very sick man.
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McKeither, at the time, was staying with his sister, who lived almost directly across the street from the victim.*
Across the street? That is real smart.

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It seems to me that the rapist is a purposefully ignorant person who simply doesn't care to look at anything beyond what will excuse his actions.
Agreed.

I'm glad that McKeither didn't kill the woman.

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Old 07-03-2008, 12:50 PM   #10
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Rape is not a laughing matter. Please refrain from making such tasteless jokes in the future.

~9



Last edited by Rogue Nine; 07-03-2008 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Edited out tasteless joke.
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Old 07-03-2008, 01:31 PM   #11
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That's not exactly what rape is usually about.

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Old 07-03-2008, 02:10 PM   #12
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The rapist clearly has a mental illness... The fact that he said that "there is not god" should not even lead to anybody thinking that this is what happens if you don't believe in god. Hitler believed in god and nobody ever pulls that card out.

Anyways, I wouldn't even say the man is ignorant, he just has an extreme mental illness.

We have a place for people like that... Prison
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev7 View Post
That is a very sick man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by han sala
The rapist clearly has a mental illness...
Or maybe he was just a very evil, bad man.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Old 07-03-2008, 03:17 PM   #14
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Most evil and bad men areee??

Dun-dun-dunnn. Mental.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:18 PM   #15
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You could argue, Jae, that evilness is a mental disease.

...of course you could probably argue that kindness is a mental disease too.

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Old 07-03-2008, 03:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyri View Post
You could argue, Jae, that evilness is a mental disease.
That would be preposterous.

Let me correct myself, people who do such heinous crimes are mental.

Unless somebody would like to argue with me that rape is something everyone desires and he just didn't hold it in well enough.

Then I would say you're mental. =]

Anyways, it is probably safe to conclude he's a little off in the brain.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyri View Post
...of course you could probably argue that kindness is a mental disease too.
Oh, that explains the 'deluded' references.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:27 PM   #18
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I often find you mentally diseased in your level of kindness, Jae.

But in all seriousness, it seems like 'mental illness' is the general response to people who are rapists, murderers, thieves, etc. Makes the term about as effective as 'racism' -- it has no legitimate meaning anymore.

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Old 07-03-2008, 04:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyri View Post
But in all seriousness, it seems like 'mental illness' is the general response to people who are rapists, murderers, thieves
Not in all rape cases... But in this particular case I would say so.

Again, I'm just assuming and I could be wrong.. I just don't see what man in their right mind would want to rape a 77 year old women.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:38 PM   #20
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Why not? From the point of view of a rapist, a 77 year old woman is an easy target that represents a low level of self-risk. They won't put up much of a fight and you're more likely to scare them into not reporting the crime. It's not about the sex.

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Old 07-03-2008, 04:44 PM   #21
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Why not? From the point of view of a rapist, a 77 year old woman is an easy target that represents a low level of self-risk. They won't put up much of a fight and you're more likely to scare them into not reporting the crime. It's not about the sex.
What other motive would there be? Just to take her $85? There are probably more efficient ways of doing that, then raping her.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:47 PM   #22
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Your naivete in this matter is endearing, but pure sexual desire is largely considered to not be the primary driving factor of most rapes. A lot of it is about the feeling of power, dominance, etc. This isn't a date rape, after all; it's a violent crime.

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Old 07-03-2008, 04:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inyri View Post
Your naivete in this matter is endearing, but pure sexual desire is largely considered to not be the primary driving factor of most rapes. A lot of it is about the feeling of power, dominance, etc. This isn't a date rape, after all; it's a violent crime.
Exactly, so if it was for power and dominance would you say that the man is mentally healthy?
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:00 PM   #24
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Then define mentaly healthy. People want a lot of things, many want power and the feeling of superioroty. Some satisfy it by wtf pwning people in unreal tournament, others need something else to satisfy it. In my oppinion, his motives dosen't make him mentaly unhealthy, because if they are, you'd be hard pressed to find mentaly healthy persons.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:05 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Exactly, so if it was for power and dominance would you say that the man is mentally healthy?
I never said I would.

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Then define mentaly healthy.
As per my earlier post, I contend the term 'mental illness' has lost a lot of its meaning because people use it too often and for things that don't necessarily warrant it.

Quote:
In my oppinion, his motives dosen't make him mentaly unhealthy, because if they are, you'd be hard pressed to find mentaly healthy persons.
I don't think I'd call rapists mentally unhealthy, but I'd certainly suggest they're hormonally imbalanced. Then again my perspective is skewed by a scientific mind, which tends to think mental illness is also caused by some kind of physical imbalance.

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Old 07-03-2008, 05:05 PM   #26
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I agree in that case.

I guess I was just baffled by the whole "raping a 77" year old thing.

I also have been reading a lot about serial killers, so I think that I was over analyzing the situation.

Anyways, I do agree and talk a lot about how people always assume the person is mentally ill (maybe not on these forums) and I guess I just had a hypocritical moment.
haha

EDIT: I also agree on hormonally imbalanced, and I guess that's what I was meaning to say.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
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I don't think I'd call rapists mentally unhealthy, but I'd certainly suggest they're hormonally imbalanced. Then again my perspective is skewed by a scientific mind, which tends to think mental illness is also caused by some kind of physical imbalance.
I not sure that we can attribute mental illness to "bad hardware" only.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
As per my earlier post, I contend the term 'mental illness' has lost a lot of its meaning because people use it too often and for things that don't necessarily warrant it.
I agree, that was why I wanted him to explain what he meant with the word.

Quote:
Then again my perspective is skewed by a scientific mind, which tends to think mental illness is also caused by some kind of physical imbalance.
Skewed by a scientific mind? Achilles will love this
Anyway, I do agree that in most cases there is something physical involved, but I would be carefull with talking about it like an ilness (I know you didn't, you just sounded that way). With the diferences in the setup of each persons thinking box/stuff that afects it, defining a strict "normal" setup would leave everyone sick (in one area), which seems very wrong to me.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:24 PM   #29
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I agree, that was why I wanted him to explain what he meant with the word.
Some sort of mental imbalance or chemical imbalance.

I don't know if you would call it mentally ill, but something that doesn't work quite right in their brain... maybe caused by something that happened earlier in their life, or maybe just something wrong with them since they were born.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I not sure that we can attribute mental illness to "bad hardware" only.
Certainly not, but it is a larger factor than a lot of people would like to admit. Naturally environment is the other half of the pie.

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Originally Posted by mur'phon
Skewed by a scientific mind? Achilles will love this
What ya talkin' about? He already called me out on it.

Most rapists/murderers/etc are fully aware that their actions are wrong and against the law. I don't care how out of flux their hormones are -- they're guilty as sin if they know it's wrong.

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Old 07-03-2008, 05:27 PM   #31
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Trouble is, our brains are quite different from person to person, some of those diferences are called diseases, some aren't. For instance, some people are genetically predisposed to have a short fuse, others to be restless, yet only one of them is considered a disease (ADHD).


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Or maybe he was just a very evil, bad man.
That too.

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Old 07-03-2008, 08:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
First of all, it makes me wonder if he mean what he say, or is he just "smack talking" which I strongly suggest that this is the case.

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If he had raped her because she happened to be a different religion from him, would that have made a difference to you? Would it have made a difference in how the press covered the story?
Well then, it would be just yet another (a)religious hatecrime. You know, in some (uncivilized) parts of the world nutty "guys with guns" are still running amok, and some of which would rape/pillage/mutilate people "as a reminder of them not believing in the whatever twisted version of their default religion"

But as I said, I highly doubt this guy actually mean what he says, or actually KNOWS what he says for that matter. And no I am not going into the topic of how people confuse about their (a)religious identity, or how theist/atheist can act similar for their own good/bad ideals for similar reasons, those topics have their own (many) threads.


...
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Old 07-04-2008, 01:22 AM   #34
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Certainly not, but it is a larger factor than a lot of people would like to admit.
I'll be honest and admit that I haven't followed the field of psychology that closely since I dropped it as a major many years ago. Could you please update my understanding by providing a source for the above assertion? Thank in advance.

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Most rapists/murderers/etc are fully aware that their actions are wrong and against the law. I don't care how out of flux their hormones are -- they're guilty as sin if they know it's wrong.
This too please.

While I tend to agree with you regarding guilt, I'm not quite sure what that has to do with their mental health. I would tend to think that someone capable of recognizing that their actions are inappropriate, yet are unable to control themselves to keep from performing them anyway is probably not well. But again, that's just my opinion.
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