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View Poll Results: Which is your favorite?
Atris 10 8.00%
Dorak 2 1.60%
Kavar 41 32.80%
Vandar 26 20.80%
Vash 18 14.40%
Vrook 10 8.00%
Zez-Kai Ell 10 8.00%
Zhar 8 6.40%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Which Council Member?
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:16 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
You may find this; http://fromearth.net/LetsPlay/KOTOR%...041/index.html

You may want to download this too; http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filef...Vash_Mod;81631 - Excellent mod by Sikon, one of the best around!

Thanks a lot, that's really helpful now I see what the fuss is about.

And is that a mod to put Vash's cut content in? Wow, I really should start looking at mods more often lol


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Old 08-04-2008, 09:41 PM   #82
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Finally! Zhar has a vote.

He may not have much personality, but at least he wasn't a hag, like Atris, or an arrogant old geezer like Vrook. I found it interesting just how many times this thread has been revived. How could anyone be willing to go to such lengths to defend their vote?!

There have been a few dedicated Vrook or Atris fans that absolutely refuse to accept that they are a minority. Atris and Vrook are very polar characters... you either love them or despise them... I would suggest avoided a long-winded debate over characters that don't exist!
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #83
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Finally! Zhar has a vote.

He may not have much personality, but at least he wasn't a hag, like Atris, or an arrogant old geezer like Vrook. I found it interesting just how many times this thread has been revived. How could anyone be willing to go to such lengths to defend their vote?!

There have been a few dedicated Vrook or Atris fans that absolutely refuse to accept that they are a minority. Atris and Vrook are very polar characters... you either love them or despise them... I would suggest avoided a long-winded debate over characters that don't exist!

I hate Vrook for exactly that - he's an 'arrogant old geezer'
Jolee would win him in a fight, anyday.

But yes, I liked Zhar, but he just wasn't a 'favourite'. I don't like many of the council, to be precise... I picked Kavar purely out of his empathy for the exile, and the fact that he was more friendly than accusing.

And someone mentioned it before... he didn't just hide like everyone else. He continued to help people, and fight for justice.


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Old 08-04-2008, 09:54 PM   #84
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My issue is that Kavar and ZKE seemed to follow Vrook without any consideration for their own authority. How could those two have known they had power to influence, but yield to Vrook? Surely they would have followed Vandar if he were the top dog, but they followed the lead of whomever was in front of them... like the sith.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:06 PM   #85
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My issue is that Kavar and ZKE seemed to follow Vrook without any consideration for their own authority. How could those two have known they had power to influence, but yield to Vrook? Surely they would have followed Vandar if he were the top dog, but they followed the lead of whomever was in front of them... like the sith.
I think any member of the Council would have done the same thing. They're the council, they listen to the ones above them - that might make them like the sith, but who said the Council were any good? lol

No matter where you go, there will always be people following someone who is wrong - even in real life. It doesn't matter who they are, they just follow. You'll get a few people who go against it, but in that situation would you have gone against Vrook or the Exile?

They probably figured, since he/she IS an Exile, Vrook must be right, even if they thought/knew otherwise.


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Old 08-04-2008, 10:20 PM   #86
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I think any member of the Council would have done the same thing. They're the council, they listen to the ones above them - that might make them like the sith, but who said the Council were any good? lol

No matter where you go, there will always be people following someone who is wrong - even in real life. It doesn't matter who they are, they just follow. You'll get a few people who go against it, but in that situation would you have gone against Vrook or the Exile?

They probably figured, since he/she IS an Exile, Vrook must be right, even if they thought/knew otherwise.
It wasn't a matter of respecting Vrook over the Exile... it was a matter of doing what they believed was right. ZKE said the Council refused to realize it was flawed. He should have either been absent or willing to do what he knew was right.

Kavar was sympathetic, but I don't think he ever admitted the Exile was wronged. I could understand why he didn't support her, but that didn't explain why he followed Vrook. I regret not seeing Vash throw in her opinion. She admitted what ZKE had and would have known that Vrook was just condemning the Exile a second time because he refused to believe the Council could have been the ones who were wrong.

I just don't know if Vrook and Atris were biassed because they were on the Council or if they were on the Council because they were biassed (against the dark side or enemies of the Order). I could understand the first time she was exiled, but surely even Vrook could see where the Council's actions had lead the jedi. They weren't usurped, so they couldn't blame anyone but themselves... and some continued shifting the blame away from themselves.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:28 PM   #87
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It wasn't a matter of respecting Vrook over the Exile... it was a matter of doing what they believed was right. ZKE said the Council refused to realize it was flawed. He should have either been absent or willing to do what he knew was right.

Kavar was sympathetic, but I don't think he ever admitted the Exile was wronged. I could understand why he didn't support her, but that didn't explain why he followed Vrook. I regret not seeing Vash throw in her opinion. She admitted what ZKE had and would have known that Vrook was just condemning the Exile a second time because he refused to believe the Council could have been the ones who were wrong.

I just don't know if Vrook and Atris were biassed because they were on the Council or if they were on the Council because they were biassed (against the dark side or enemies of the Order). I could understand the first time she was exiled, but surely even Vrook could see where the Council's actions had lead the jedi. They weren't usurped, so they couldn't blame anyone but themselves... and some continued shifting the blame away from themselves.
I guess in a way, you could compare Vrook to old people in our day and age... they don't want to change their opinion on anything. of course that's just a stereotype. >.> kinda...

I couldn't say I'd be thinking all too straight in that situation - it was a now or never thing, and though they knew they were wrong, I don't think they wanted to risk another big war or dilemma concerning the Exile. Basically, Vrook saw the Exile as an immediate threat, especially to his place in the Council.

As for Atris, she has no excuse. She's just selfish, spoilt and cruel. I think she, much like Vrook, was powercrazy because of their place in the (previous) Council, and thought they could enforce their opinions everywhere, and have them made law.


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Old 08-04-2008, 11:15 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura View Post
My issue is that Kavar and ZKE seemed to follow Vrook without any consideration for their own authority.
Eh? The decision was unanimous. Vrook, Kavar, and believed the Exile should be exiled once again. It's not like they bowed down to Vrook; they were equals, and they made the decision together. And a such, the blame should be equally placed.

In some ways I'd say Ell and Kavar were worse than Vrook. At least he was honest about his views on the Exile. Kavar treated them like a friend, only to stab them in the back later. Ell claimed the Council was wrong for casting out the Exile, but then did it again in a heartbeat.


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Old 08-05-2008, 10:24 AM   #89
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That's a good point, but I don't know if I agree that Kavar only acted like his friend - I think he truly felt sympathetic toward the Exile. His attitude was more of a "look kid, I like you, but I gotta do this for the greater good" as opposed to "you're evil and I'm scared and I hate you". The end result is the same, but I'd prefer the former position to the latter.


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Old 08-05-2008, 11:11 AM   #90
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I guess in a way, you could compare Vrook to old people in our day and age... they don't want to change their opinion on anything. of course that's just a stereotype. >.> kinda...

I couldn't say I'd be thinking all too straight in that situation - it was a now or never thing, and though they knew they were wrong, I don't think they wanted to risk another big war or dilemma concerning the Exile. Basically, Vrook saw the Exile as an immediate threat, especially to his place in the Council.

As for Atris, she has no excuse. She's just selfish, spoilt and cruel. I think she, much like Vrook, was powercrazy because of their place in the (previous) Council, and thought they could enforce their opinions everywhere, and have them made law.
Oh, Atris, don´t even get me going on her again. A short, but acurate summary Burnseyy.

Yeah, the exile´s powers, were largely an unknown. I know the council had some idea of the nature...but the extent, maybe not. They feared the exile because deep down they knew he was more powerful. They took the easy "let just kill him/her" approach.

JCarter426: Thats a good point. Kavar uses the exile (if LS) to defeat Tobin´s army attacking the palace but then casts the exile aside like an old pair of shoes. Oh, sure, he treats the exile nicely enough, but when it comes down to the decision that matters...he screws the exile over. Hmmm, didn´t think about that when I voted for him...

I would have to say though, that while ZKE and Kavar did not bow down to Vrook, I could not see them making that decision without his considerable influence.

-HOP



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Old 08-05-2008, 11:44 AM   #91
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I would have to say though, that while ZKE and Kavar did not bow down to Vrook, I could not see them making that decision without his considerable influence.
Eh, my impression on the three masters in the game was that Ell does everything Kavar says out of respect (he's always babbling on about Kavar's plan and Kavar being the best tactician), while Vrook kind of thought Kavar's sense of tactics was worse than Atris'. In any case, I doubt Kavar would listen all that much to Vrook; I see it going down with Vrook and Kavar deciding on exile, with Ell just nodding in silence.

And remember, as Kavar says: "The choice of one was the choice of us all."


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Old 08-05-2008, 01:41 PM   #92
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This particular threat is so entertaining to watch. I just enjoy the constant battle for who daddy loves more!

I still think that Revan the the Exile were right to defy the Council. Everytime they are criticized by the Council, they are always regarded as failures.

-Even ZKE said 'Not once did the Council not take responsibility for Revan, Malak, Exar, or you(Exile).' He admitted the Council was at fault because these individuals were failures... he didn't even consider that maybe they did what they believed was right and the Council was defying the jedi ways.
-The darkside Council ending where Vrook survives has him blaming himself... for not having stopped the Exile long ago. When Malak was dominating the Galaxy, Vrook said the jedi (not the Council) had failed the Republic. He also blamed Revan for falling long before the Mando Wars w/out anything to back his claim.
-Kavar said that much more harm was done because Revan and Exile defied the Council... he never considered that they resolved the Mandalorian threat. And despite the Sith war, a crippled Republic was better than a crushed Republic.
-Zhar stated how Revan and Malak were foolish to defy the Council... he never bothered to consider that they had good reason to join the Republic forces. Never did he consider if they obeyed the Council and the Republic was crushed... but he was glad that someone other than the Council did the dirty work of defeating the Mandalorians.
-Vash... admitted what ZKE had, but still had not done anything for the Exile when or after she returned from the Mando Wars. She had good beliefs, but no deeds behind that.
-Atris... the worst of them all. She completely ignores fact and bends the truth to what shape best suited her. Often, the outcome resulted in her gaining power and others suffering.

I'd say that all the Council were flawed... some just more than others.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:31 PM   #93
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Hmm, I'll have to analyze all these people before I can vote.

Atris: I hate her guts. I SO enjoy killing her in TSL! And she fried Handmaiden, who's one of my favorite characters! Course, I might have to vote for her simply because I enjoy killing her...

Dorak: Whatever. He just sort of...stands there.

Kavar: With friends like that, who needs enemies?

Vandar: He lost any sympathy I might have had for him when he first opened his mouth and didn't speak backwards. And he's a minor character. He stands there in a cutscene, and that's 'bout it.

Vash: I liked her the moment I saw her. I think she was an idiot to exile the Exile, but then, so was the rest of the Council, so I can't burn her on that.

Vrook: DIE, JEDI DOG! Oh, what am I saying? He's the leader of the Council! (Arrogant jerkwad had it comin' to him when I killed him yesterday...) He destroyed any remorse I had in killing him when he started berating me for rescuing him! (Is that a Jedi habit, insisting that they weren't rescued?!? First Bastilla, and now Vrook! No wonder the Jedi Order went to pot!)

Zez-Kai Ell: I liked him at first, but then Dantooine came along, and that put a little kink in things. Between him and Kavar, it's like--"Hi, Masters, how ya doin', been chillin' on Nar Shaddaa and Onderon, glad you aren't dead, no, I don't hate you for throwing me out of the Order, I'll be on Dantooine in ten hours, cya there! Oh, you're gonna cut me off from the Force? Jooooooooooooooy...Thanks for the moral support, guys..."

Zhar: He sorta stood there lookin' dumb. Once he gives me my lightsaber, I can't care less what happens to him.

So, I guess it's between Vash and Atris! Well...I think I'll take Vash! She doesn't scream at me or turn to the Dark Side, she just dies.

And, with a dramatic click of my mouse, I resurrect this thread once more! (click)


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 09-18-2008, 02:41 PM   #94
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I like Kavar. He was still in the fight. the other two were cowering in some hole, while he was still advising and helping people.
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:40 PM   #95
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Atris: Geez...issues, much? Crazy, much? Repressed? You freaking bet. About the mildest comment I made was that she seriously needed to get laid.

Dorak: Somewhat dull, not terribly helpful. Just an exposition God.

Kavar: Interesting bloke. Actually doing his job. Hated to have to skewer the dude on my saber.

Vandar: Almost spilled the beans several times, and probably wanted to. I liked that he was charging in, shoulder to shoulder with Dodonna at the Star Forge brawl.

Vash: Woman in the Fridge, sadly. She actually seemed like she had potential.

Vrook: He was an ass. He needed to be an ass. Still, he typified most of the things I dislike about Jedi - hard adherence to dogma and heirarchy, at the expense of Living Force. He was ruled by his fear, both with Revan and with Exile, covering it with anger and hatred he denies to the hilt.

Zez-Kai Ell - Nice enough fellow, but he was a broken coward by the time we see him on Nar Shadaa.

Zhar - I voted for Zhar. It had to have sucked to get the short straw and end up retraining Revan. He seemed a good an honest fellow who believes and practices what he preaches.


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Old 09-21-2008, 07:41 AM   #96
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Rather than make a long(er) winded post, I'm just gonna agree with Allronix's post.. couldn't have said it better


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Old 09-21-2008, 10:06 AM   #97
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I voted for Kavar.

What has allways puzzled me was the whole, "I'm going to help you, so I can kill you later" attitude. Some of the story felt awkward, and the council members seemed to have suffered from amnesia. Why did the writters do that? It felt as though there was a sudden moment of them being out of character. Maybe that is a subject for another thread.
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:57 PM   #98
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You mean the attitude o f the council members, right? Well, all of the members (at least Zez and Kavar) seemed to realize that the exile was stronger then them individually. Kavar used the exile to help him beat Vaklu (LS). I voted for Kavar too. They felt the exile was a threat but were not beneath using him/her to accomplish their goals. What sudden moment are you reffering to?

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Old 09-21-2008, 04:07 PM   #99
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Yeah... since I hate Atris so much, I'll just stab at her again.

She is so arrogant that I can't figure out where she ever got where she was. Vrook at least had something to back why he thought and believed the way he did, but Atris was just a raw jedi w/out anything to go by. How did she POSSIBLY get selected for the Council in the first place?

It's fun to anger her and hear her curse your name only to know you're better than she could ever have been! I love leaving her to the sith holocrons more than closing her eyes forever.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:59 PM   #100
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Old 09-21-2008, 07:51 PM   #101
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You mean the attitude o f the council members, right? Well, all of the members (at least Zez and Kavar) seemed to realize that the exile was stronger then them individually. Kavar used the exile to help him beat Vaklu (LS). I voted for Kavar too. They felt the exile was a threat but were not beneath using him/her to accomplish their goals. What sudden moment are you reffering to?
~HOP
Upon facing them on Dantooine, the council seemed characteristically different. Kavar and Zez were so supportive on NarShaddaa and Onderon. Facing them on Dantooine seemed almost sithish. I was hoping for one of them to turn and help. No one came to your defence.
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:24 PM   #102
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Wow. I really think my interpretation of Atris is pretty generous after viewing this thread... And I still find her an arrogant, half-crazy not-Jedi. Call me crazy, but I don't dislike Vrook. I definitely do not like him at all, but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's one of those tough military-style instructers who has everyone of his students having their most enjoyable darkside fantasy being killing him, but when a battle goes to hell, they probably thank him for being hard on them... as corny as that sounds. Even in the game, when the Council resentences the Exile to... exile, the player doesn't take it as hard as when Kavar and Zez-Kai Ell agree to it.

Speaking of Kavar... why is he so loved? I mean, he is definitely one of the more active Council members, he acted nicely enough to the Exile (nothing compared to Vash in cut content obviously), and appreciated their help, but in the end... back-stab! When did he become so lovable? I'm sorry, I just needed to get that out there.

Although all of these beings were flawed, some ticked me off more than others. *sigh* Would that hypocrites realize their ways? TKA-001 really summed it all up.
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Old 09-21-2008, 10:50 PM   #103
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Upon facing them on Dantooine, the council seemed characteristically different. Kavar and Zez were so supportive on NarShaddaa and Onderon. Facing them on Dantooine seemed almost sithish. I was hoping for one of them to turn and help. No one came to your defence.
True, they did. I think Vrook was to blame but apparently others dissagree. Part of it could be what I said earlier. They all knew the exile was stronger than them individually and knew they would not beat him/her alone...with two others on their side, perhaps they saw their chance to finish off the exile. Thats the only plausible thing I can think of.

Still, Zez acted like he would not drain the exile given the chance on NS...very strange indeed.

@luckyariot: Oh, yes, DY and myself especially loath her. I was even going to form a social group called the "We Hate Atris Club"

~HOP



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Old 09-21-2008, 11:56 PM   #104
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I like Atris' character even though she was Dark Side and expressed a lot of hatred toward the Exile and (about) Revan.


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Old 09-22-2008, 01:28 AM   #105
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@luckyariot: Oh, yes, DY and myself especially loath her. I was even going to form a social group called the "We Hate Atris Club"

~HOP
Heck, I'd be your first member!


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:37 AM   #106
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meh, I didn't like her or hate her. she just was part of the story. now if she had helped nihlis with the destruction of telos, then i'd hate her.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:40 AM   #107
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@luckyariot: Oh, yes, DY and myself especially loath her. I was even going to form a social group called the "We Hate Atris Club" ~HOP
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Heck, I'd be your first member!
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:31 PM   #108
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Call me crazy, but I don't dislike Vrook. I definitely do not like him at all, but I don't think he's a bad guy. He's one of those tough military-style instructers who has everyone of his students having their most enjoyable darkside fantasy being killing him, but when a battle goes to hell, they probably thank him for being hard on them... as corny as that sounds. Even in the game, when the Council resentences the Exile to... exile, the player doesn't take it as hard as when Kavar and Zez-Kai Ell agree to it.
QFT. He is the most sincere of all the masters because he doesn't try to hide his feelings at people or situations he disapproves.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:16 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by HIGH ON PIE 14 View Post
the chance on NS...very strange indeed.

@luckyariot: Oh, yes, DY and myself especially loath her. I was even going to form a social group called the "We Hate Atris Club"
you should

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Old 09-22-2008, 07:40 PM   #110
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QFT. He is the most sincere of all the masters because he doesn't try to hide his feelings at people or situations he disapproves.
Quite true. I don't like Vrook, since he dislikes me. But as Ctrl Alt Del said, at least he is honest. If you are a dark exile, his fears make a lot of sense...if you are LS they still make aq lot of sense, though I think he let them blind him to the real truth.

@Rev: perhaps I will, now that you mention it...

~HOP



Viva La Resistance!
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:40 PM   #111
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I like Vandar, aka "Not-Yoda." He's pretty cool. Not happy how they just casually killed him off in passing conversation regarding the catastrophe on Katar. I didn't really care much about Dorak and Zhar, but Vandar is such a great character that writing him off so easily is just a sin. He needs to be discovered alive in the next installment. He just has to be alive. If he isn't, then that's a pretty terrible waste of a good character. At least let him go out in a blaze of glory.

Kavar is overrated. I can't see the appeal whatsoever. He strikes me as boring and uninteresting; and his voice actor's terrible acting skills certainly don't help much. The guy is incredibly monotonous and conveys no emotions whatsoever. When the Exile is about to kill him when playing the dark side, Kavar just speaks to her in his usual droll physics professor tone. He's just a step up from Zez-Kai-Ell, in my opinion.

The Sith Lords didn't have any good Jedi Masters at all, other than Vrook. As much as I think Vrook is a complete bunghole, I agree with Luckyariot. He's a very good character, believable, and is probably the most realistic out of all the Jedi Masters in both games. Dorak and Zhar are all right; Atris, Vash, Kavar and Zez-Kai-Ell are terrible.


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Old 09-22-2008, 08:33 PM   #112
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I never liked vrook. He was honest, and that crochety old man in the corner. But I'd bet good money that he had to master the light saber before any of the other masters because so many of his padawans tried to kill him.

And I was boerd yesterday, so I was thinking. In episodes 2 and 3 (the movies), I could see why anakin fell. If you watched Obi-Wan talk to him, he was constantly putting him down. When he was on the droid planet in ep2 for ex (first introduction of the clone troopers), instead of saying "nice shot anikan" obiwan had to remind anakin that he was the inferior one, so said "nice shot, my yong aprentice". This probobly made Anakin feel like he couldn't have done it w/out Obi-Wan's help. There are numerous other examples of this in the movies.
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Old 09-22-2008, 08:34 PM   #113
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What is cool about Vandar? The only difference I see between him and Yoda is that he actually knows the language.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 09-22-2008, 10:36 PM   #114
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People like Vandar because he is the same species as Yoda. We all know if he were human, he would not get an ounce of attention. I'm fairly nuetral with him to be honest. He does get some cool points for being a Yoda guy...but Yoda is still way better.

~HOP



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Old 09-23-2008, 05:40 AM   #115
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I like him because he seems wise, has good lines, a pretty good voice actor, is believable and isn't boring like the rest. It has nothing to do with his species whatsoever.


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YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:21 PM   #116
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Why the heck is Kavar so popular! He backstabs you! He's all nice to you and then he agrees to kill you! And if any of the fangirls comment on this, please don't get mad.
Well I guess he's kind of cool...but definitally not cooler than Vandar!
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Old 09-24-2008, 07:53 PM   #117
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When does Kavar agree to kill the player?


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 09-26-2008, 04:21 AM   #118
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my fave was vandar. he was so nice, and i bet, like yoda hes the most powerful of the lot. (lifespan of hundreds of years)
then it was between masters ell and kavar. ze-kai was nice, and was actually humble like jedi are supposed to be. and kavar was 'da man'.
i cant choose between the two.

worst:
vrook. he was so annoying and crabby.
and of course ATRIS. aaargh!! i just want to give her a slap!
atris=beyaaaaatch!

oh wow.
is there actually a 'we hate atris' club? if there is where do i join? (i just joined lf and im findin my way round the UI)
if its not there someone should totally make one!

(on a completely different tangent)
i saw the youtube vid of lonna vash and just realised... that voice... thats gotta be kath soucie! (tavion from JA. i hate her too. ugh. so lame)



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.

Last edited by RedHawke; 09-26-2008 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Combined DP...
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:36 AM   #119
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I think Kavar is best cause he has humour and is good in combat
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:12 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Allronix View Post
Atris: Geez...issues, much? Crazy, much? Repressed? You freaking bet. About the mildest comment I made was that she seriously needed to get laid.

Dorak: Somewhat dull, not terribly helpful. Just an exposition God.

Kavar: Interesting bloke. Actually doing his job. Hated to have to skewer the dude on my saber.

Vandar: Almost spilled the beans several times, and probably wanted to. I liked that he was charging in, shoulder to shoulder with Dodonna at the Star Forge brawl.

Vash: Woman in the Fridge, sadly. She actually seemed like she had potential.

Vrook: He was an ass. He needed to be an ass. Still, he typified most of the things I dislike about Jedi - hard adherence to dogma and hierarchy, at the expense of Living Force. He was ruled by his fear, both with Revan and with Exile, covering it with anger and hatred he denies to the hilt.

Zez-Kai Ell - Nice enough fellow, but he was a broken coward by the time we see him on Nar Shadaa.

Zhar - I voted for Zhar. It had to have sucked to get the short straw and end up retraining Revan. He seemed a good an honest fellow who believes and practices what he preaches.
Well stated Allronix

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What is cool about Vandar? The only difference I see between him and Yoda is that he actually knows the language.
For me it has nothing to do with his species. It has to do the fact that he is the only you see actually battling evil.

Vash comes in a very close second for the way she is portrayed in Coruscant video and fact she tries to battle evil.


Not all those who wander are lost.-J.R.R. Tolkien

I believe in Christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it but by it I see everything else - C.S. Lewis
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