Which Council Member?

[Gob]

Yeah, purple lightsaber and everything. I cried when he died, but it was canceled out by Vrook dying.

[Darth_Yuthura]

Originally Posted by purifier

Anyway, Atris has my vote despite her attitude towards the exile. That's just a case of her having too much passion in her beliefs about the Mandalorin Wars. She likes to argue - like everyone else.

Me, I would have to say Vrook hands down. I've come across two individuals like that so far in my lifetime.

I could say I'm a lot like Vrook when it comes to the way I interact on this site, yet I see no reason for people to like me... unless I'm advocating for their side. Either way, they are characters I just love to hate because... well that's the way they are. It does take some sacrifice to be likable and if you don't do that, you're going to be dismissed. He and Atris deserve all the disrespect they get.

Atris is NOT a Jedi. She wasn't simply misguided, she betrayed the Jedi on Katarr. It wasn't passion but greed and lust for power that she turned to the DS. I never redeem her in the game.

[Trench]

Vandar
I like the way he is portrayed in Darth_Yuthura's fanfic.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura

I could say I'm a lot like Vrook when it comes to the way I interact on this site,

I really don't see that in you DY, you have opinions about certain ideas that you believe in just like everyone else here on LucasForums an I can respect that, so don't sell yourself short.

It does take some sacrifice to be likable and if you don't do that, you're going to be dismissed.

Oh noooo, please don't believe this. In certain social circles they would call doing this self sabotage. The more you try and push yourself on people and try to be likeable the more they will try and push you away. Believe me, I've been there. Just be your real self. And care not whether they like you or they don't... known what I mean?

He and Atris deserve all the disrespect they get.

I can respect your opinion on that, but as for me I try to see past there words and there emotions and get to real problem as to what's driving them to act that way. Are they fearful, do they feel resentment or do they feel betrayed themselves somehow? There is always more to it than we know.

she betrayed the Jedi on Katarr.

Hmmm, I thought I read somwhere in Wookieepedia that she did that just to draw out the real threat facing the jedi and it became a screw up on her part. Betrayal... I dunno could have been that too though.

[Darth_Yuthura]

Originally Posted by purifier

I really don't see that in you DY, you have opinions about certain ideas that you believe in just like everyone else here on LucasForums an I can respect that, so don't sell yourself short.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by purifier

Oh noooo, please don't believe this. In certain social circles they would call doing this self sabotage. The more you try and push yourself on people and try to be likeable the more they will try and push you away. Believe me, I've been there. Just be your real self. And care not whether they like you or they don't... known what I mean?

Except Vrook goes out of his way to be disliked. If he just did nothing, everyone could love him, but he always goes out of his way to arrogantly proclaim him/the Council right and everyone else wrong.

And being myself isn't going to help; it will just make people uneasy around me. But you do have a point about guys going out of their way to be loved as being the problem.

Originally Posted by purifier

I can respect your opinion on that, but as for me I try to see past there words and there emotions and get to real problem as to what's driving them to act that way. Are they fearful, do they feel resentment or do they feel betrayed themselves somehow? There is always more to it than we know.

Except they don't see past that in the Exile. To them, she got exactly what she deserved and they were not responsible for anything. That's the kind of person/character I just want to slap across the face. Vrook always speaks of how evil Revan was without ever admitting that he was wrong to ignore the Mandalorians in the first place.

I mean, he was a very colorful character compared to all the other 'noble' and respectable people in the Jedi Order; but that doesn't mean I like him any more. I would rather have more characters like Vrook... maybe not him specifically... than more Luke Skywalkers in the SW universe. Otherwise it would be the same old same old all the time.

Originally Posted by purifier

Hmmm, I thought I read somwhere in Wookieepedia that she did that just to draw out the real threat facing the jedi and it became a screw up on her part. Betrayal... I dunno could have been that too though.

Which is why she went there herself and died along with all the other Jedi on Katarr? No, she sold them out. If she went and died there herself, then I wouldn't call that a betrayal.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura

Except Vrook goes out of his way to be disliked.

Well you could say that, but I'm more willing to go along with the arrogance part and self pride to add to it. You know... the - I know what I'm talking about so you better listen to me. - attitude.
Oh yeah and judgemental too.

And being myself isn't going to help; it will just make people uneasy around me.

Hmmm, are you sure about that. You never really know to you give it a shot DY. I've learned over the years it's because of the way we think that dertermines our outlook on life and the response of others around us. Sometimes it can be bad and sometimes it can be good.

I would rather have more characters like Vrook... maybe not him specifically... than more Luke Skywalkers in the SW universe. Otherwise it would be the same old same old all the time.

Agreed.

Which is why she went there herself and died along with all the other Jedi on Katarr? No, she sold them out.

I dunno, I was thinking she wasn't on the planet itself at the time when Nihilus sucked the life out of Katarr and it's people; and that she was in a starship that was orbiting the planet at the time. Because she was waiting for the enemy in order to trap them and of course the enemy was not what she had expected and so she left the area before she became the next target. Hence "her screw up" do you see where I'm going with this?

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by purifier

Hence "her screw up" do you see where I'm going with this?

Screwing up happens when someone makes a mistake. I don't think causing the death of 90% of the Jedi made her say "Oops, silly me."

She was just downright evil, I can see why cut content had her as the possible last boss.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Screwing up happens when someone makes a mistake. I don't think causing the death of 90% of the Jedi made her say "Oops, silly me."

She was just downright evil, I can see why cut content had her as the possible last boss.

Yes, eventually she did become that (evil) but only because of her own blind passion to seek out evil and destroy it herself. And I figured she was doing this so as to redeem herself from the horrible mistake she made at Katarr, that's the idea I was getting from the writers at Obsidian. Well at least that's what I believe they were trying to convey in the story anyway, because of all the dialogue that anybody encounters while playing the game.

Now if you want to talk about downright evil, well...Darth Nihilus gets my vote on that. I think he was the major antagonist in this story.

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by purifier

Now if you want to talk about downright evil, well...Darth Nihilus gets my vote on that. I think he was the major antagonist in this story.

No no no, the main antagonist was Lucasarts. They tried to keep us from fully enjoying TSL, now THAT'S evil.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

No no no, the main antagonist was Lucasarts. They tried to keep us from fully enjoying TSL, now THAT'S evil.

*accidentally spits out coffee while reading Master Shake's reply*


HOLY JUMPING JEDIS! Are you serious?

I never heard of such a thing.
Wait a minute....your joking right? Riiiight?

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by purifier

Wait a minute....your joking right? Riiiight?

I wish I were........ I wish I were.

[Gob]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Screwing up happens when someone makes a mistake. I don't think causing the death of 90% of the Jedi made her say "Oops, silly me."

She was just downright evil, I can see why cut content had her as the possible last boss.

Lolz... Atris didn't cause the death of all those Jedi intentionally; she wasn't pure dag nasty evil then. She tried to root out the problem, but she didn't think that it was someone that could suck the life out of an entire planet. So actually, she probably was like "Oops, silly me." except on a much larger scale. She was just dumb.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Gob

Lolz... Atris didn't cause the death of all those Jedi intentionally; she wasn't pure dag nasty evil then. She tried to root out the problem, but she didn't think that it was someone that could suck the life out of an entire planet. So actually, she probably was like "Oops, silly me." except on a much larger scale. She was just dumb.

That's the way I see it - no doubt, although I wouldn't call her dumb. I believe she just got caught up in her passion to root out evil and to no ends until the Exile made her see the light near the end of the story.

[Darth_Yuthura]

So the Exile 'deserved' what she got for going to war, but Atris somehow thought that she was exempt from such things? Atris was a council member, but I don't think that she discussed with any of the others what she intended to do. At least with Vrook, he would have followed his own bull****, but Atris just did whatever was convenient for her. And when she saw what happened after Katarr, maybe she would have realized the best thing was to just step aside. Continuing to operate in secret from the other Jedi after that shows that she was acting for herself.

I'm not going to keep telling people what they should or shouldn't think. This is just fictional after all.

ZKE was an interesting character because he recognized the flaws of the Order and instead of correcting them, he withdrew completely. He and Vash told the Exile that she had done the right thing, but not any of the others. Even Kavar held to the beliefs that more harm was done by Revan and his followers than good.

I dislike the council that were quick enough to condemn the Exile, but could offer no solution to deal with the Mandalorians. That's why I intensely dislike Atris and Vrook.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura

So the Exile 'deserved' what she got for going to war, but Atris somehow thought that she was exempt from such things?

Well actually the Exile didn't deserve anything and the council misjudged him/her out of their own fears. Atris believed she was doing the right thing because of blind passion along with hate, fear and self denial.

Atris was a council member, but I don't think that she discussed with any of the others what she intended to do.

I was thinking that too.

At least with Vrook, he would have followed his own bull****, but Atris just did whatever was convenient for her. And when she saw what happened after Katarr, maybe she would have realized the best thing was to just step aside. Continuing to operate in secret from the other Jedi after that shows that she was acting for herself.

You could say it was the flaw in her thinking or poor judgement rather, for example the: I know better and I know what I'm doing. - type of thinking. Which eventually lead to her downfall.

ZKE was an interesting character because he recognized the flaws of the Order and instead of correcting them, he withdrew completely. He and Vash told the Exile that she had done the right thing, but not any of the others.

I think they were trying to see things from the Exile's point of view.

I dislike the council that were quick enough to condemn the Exile, but could offer no solution to deal with the Mandalorians. That's why I intensely dislike Atris and Vrook.

I can understand that.

[Master Shake]

Originally Posted by Gob

She was just dumb.

Now it all makes sense.