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Old 08-24-2008, 04:14 AM   #1
ChAiNz.2da
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Exclamation Sporadic Vista crashing and F@H

It's more about the F@H, but since it also affects Vista in certain ways I thought it might be good to make a different thread on it.

---------------------------

Currently running:
Windows Vista 64bit, SP1
no UAC, DEP or Defender
8gb Ram
nVidia 177.83 drivers


Having some serious issues with F@H currently. I'm not sure if it's the proggie, nVidia drivers or Vista so it may take awhile to troubleshoot... so my WU/score updates will be sporadic to say the least

Every single time a new WU is sent/received Vista hard crashes and reboots. We're talking instantly goes black, powers down, powers up, reboots. It's very annoying and putting gods knows what stress on the system.. so I may have to do a complete Vista re-install (last resort). I'll be playing around with driver switching today to try and root out the problem.


Non-F@H related:

- Seems I can't update the Windows Experience Index either without hard-crashing so there's obviously something up with my system, though I'm leaning towards the nVidia driver.

- UAC and DEP are disabled, however I think this too was goofed on my part. After disabling, I stumbled across a few forums saying not to do so "midway" as virtual folders, shortcuts and progs can get 'lost' or short circuited. Seems like doing this absolutely first after an OS install would be safest (before installation of anything). Not sure. Thoughts?

- Windows Defender & Windows Firewall are disabled as well.. however that is because my Trend Micro Security setup will conflict (badly)

- Can't run any old(ish) games. Bioshock or namely, Oblivion since I wanted to test this card Vista 64 bit is declared 'unsupported' as far as official DLC (downloadable) content goes, which I hadn't installed anyways.. however many people are running the patched vanilla versions with mods just fine. Mine however will instantly hard crash when starting it up.. whether it be as administrator, XP sp2 compatible, etc. I've tried every variation with no luck... again, I'm gearing towards the nVidia 177.83 drivers (ALOT of complaints with it on other forums). Oblivion was installed on my secondary ( D: ) drive as too, well out of the protected Program Files and wonky Program FIles (x86) folders.

I'm thinking of reverting back to 177.41 drivers and using F@H's version of gpu2 client.. since I'm running the ones from the recent Power Pack. Seems all my troubles started after converting to them.. but I've done so much to the system afterwards that I'm not sure even that will resolve anything.

Anywho, I'm off to started mucking things up Can't get much worse than it is now.. and I can always do a last resort OS re-install since luckily while I've installed stuff.. nothing 'major' as far as task/work related (thank goodness for backup systems *hugs external raid* )..


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Old 08-24-2008, 04:21 AM   #2
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check the minforum Your solution is there!

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Old 08-24-2008, 04:51 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7 View Post
check the minforum Your solution is there!

mtfbwya
Just tried it.. but no dice

It DID however get further.. so it's a sign of hope. It seems to hard crash once it gets to Direct 3D Texture Load Assessment.

EDIT:
other forums seem to still point to vid drivers. However the ones I'm using are WHQL signed.. I don't see why it would be a problem. Maybe PhysX is just too awesome


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Old 08-24-2008, 05:56 AM   #4
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Interesting. Yes. chop and change system related installs are riddled with peril.

If it was me. Id try this. (of course, you could just say 'bugger it' and do a fresh install, buts its worth noting driver installs need to be run with admin priveleges. Even if you dont want to reinstate UAC, you can R.click>run as admin. However, for first installs, I always err on the the side of caution )

>Delete winsat xml
>Uninstall the nvidia and physx drivers>dont reboot yet
>Reinstate UAC>Reboot
>do the same with any other hardware you suspect are having driver related hangups
>Run a reg clean
>Reboot
>Install nvidia drivers. IIRC You can unpack the 'powerpack' (using winrar etc) and just use the drivers out of them. or if you want to be cautious, just install the previous drivers as you indicated.
>Reboot
>Reinstall any other hardware related drivers that you suspected were messed up.
>If you havent done so, download and install the latest DirectX 9.23, Jun 2008 (yes, you do need to do this in vista)
>reboot
>Run Winsat(WEI)
>After all that, *if everything is OK* then disable UAC.

good luck

Not sure about Oblivion as I dont play it, but MassEffect is running a treat. I daresay if your drivers arent installed properly, it doesnt matter what game it is, the potential for problems would be higher.

If that all didnt work, before reformat, Id give system restore a try, just roll back to a happier time

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Last edited by Astrotoy7; 08-24-2008 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:34 AM   #5
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You should do a memory test.


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Old 08-24-2008, 08:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7 View Post
>If you havent done so, download and install the latest DirectX 9.23, Jun 2008 (yes, you do need to do this in vista)
I definitely did not know that! Could explain alot of stuff going on, especially if DirectX 10 is using a "faux" version of 9. Hmmm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Jones View Post
You should do a memory test.
One of the first things I tried. Switched (alternated) single sticks, AND installed one at a time. Also did an alt PSU test. Same problems.


One thing however, after extensively pharking around with drivers (and a bajillion restarts) nVidia drivers are a main culprit. 177.41, 177.83 & 177.84 (unsigned CUDA driver) all crapped out... After uninstalling EVERY nVidia driver and going with Vista's poo driver (Standard VGA).. guess what, WEI updated

Of course with a base WEI of 1.0 (5.9 on everything except Graphics / Gaming Graphics) this of course is unacceptable.. even if WEI doesn't really 'do' anything rather than enable Aero. Now to figure out how I got it straight 5.9 in the first place

Bugger of it is.. Windows Update doesn't provide a driver download (signed, WHQL, etc.) for nVidia even after everything is uninstalled. If I have to go back to my 8800GTX, I'm gonna be irrate.. especially with no SLI option hehehe

Thinking I'm gonna have to suck it up and re-install from scratch. But I'm gonna try some more stuff before admitting defeat. I have a slew of System Restore points to try being my ever paranoid self


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Old 08-24-2008, 09:26 AM   #7
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Have you tried the somewhat elusive 177.35. It is actually what F@H recommends for 2xx series

they live here
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvist...7.35_whql.html

looking at the release notes, they are 280 happy

good luck mang

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Last edited by Astrotoy7; 08-24-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7 View Post
Have you tried the somewhat elusive 177.35. It is actually what F@H recommends for 2xx series

they live here
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvist...7.35_whql.html

looking at the release notes, they are 280 happy
yeah, just tried them and no luck

hehehe... I guess I'll just do a re-install since I've exhausted just about everything. Funny enough.. others with the same problems say this is exactly what fixed theirs

I'll probably wait to do it during the week since offtimes between computer and work won't make it as painful.

My system still works, and I still have aero despite the WEI so it's no biggie. But I've definitely got to get it fixed before I try do to do some real work on it 9or play a game). Hard crashing tends not to save things..and corrupt stuff while its at it and well, that would really blow losing work files. It's hard to remember to 'save often' when you get in a groove

I'll leave UAC activated this time though LOL! I'll just have to remember to get in the habit of right-clicking anything worth opening or installing


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Old 08-24-2008, 11:51 AM   #9
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wow chainz. I must admit, Ive used Vista over a year and Ive never had to do a full reinstall.

You've been on it a few days and you broke it and broke it good

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Old 08-24-2008, 06:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7 View Post
wow chainz. I must admit, Ive used Vista over a year and Ive never had to do a full reinstall.

You've been on it a few days and you broke it and broke it good

mtfbwya
heh, if you're gonna do it... might as well do it right I always say

Seems to be happening to alot of 280 users.. go figure. Maybe I should've bought that 9800GX2 afterall... or at least waited to monkey around with Vista


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Old 08-25-2008, 04:01 AM   #11
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I personally know over a dozen 280 users who have had no issue. Though I must admit, neither of them have x64

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Old 08-25-2008, 09:13 AM   #12
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I personally know over a dozen 280 users who have had no issue. Though I must admit, neither of them have x64

mtfbwya
I'd love to know the driver.. because I did a compete re-install had the system working like a dream and once I installed nVidia drivers it went back to the same problem. It is definitely nVidia drivers or them reacting to something that is killing the machine I have no doubt it's the 64bit giving me crap.. like you said, all the 32's on forums have no problems, it's the 64 bits that are grieving.

64bit: "Yeah! We're 64 bit, we have more RAM! We rock u suk"!
32bit: "Too bad you can't do anything with it without crashing"
64bit:

At least the system is more stable than it was, and I'm not all that concerned over the WEI (the only time it crashes now). As long as nothing in the future is going to demand that to be updated, I won't curse the world. At least till I get some decent drivers.

Have not tested F@H yet, will probably install it once I get home tonight. I ran out of time last night installing base stuff and I want full attention on F@H when I go to see if it's going to play nice.

Vista re-install was cake..and fast! Though the windows update took forever.
Got a nice system restore point AND disk image of it now in the archives though


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Old 08-25-2008, 11:34 AM   #13
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what did you install after the reformat? 177.35?

feelin adventurous? have you tried 177.89?

http://downloads.guru3d.com/GeForce-...load-2032.html

I must be one of those lucky guys. never had any x64 issues... This might be a good opportunity for me to go play some lotto

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Old 08-25-2008, 11:50 AM   #14
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Might be worth a shot (the drivers and the lotto)

After getting home tonight I'm ripping through the computer. It's now a "quest" as to not so much 'fix' the problem.. but to find out 'why' it's doing it now.. hehehe

Brand spanking new, pristine, everything admin installed/controlled, DEP/UAC happy Vista install. No bloat software, just bare essentials and updates. And it literally dies after 2 seconds launching the WEI (after nVidia drivers 177.83 and lower) installed.

Uninstall nVidia drivers and I'm getting birds, rabbits, deer and rainbow shooting out of my system.


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Old 08-25-2008, 06:23 PM   #15
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Theres another thing that occurred to me.. you may have already tried it... Have you installed with just 3 or 4gb ?

Maybe your mainboard is crappin its pants with 8gb. (x64 or no) My own x64 rig only has 4gb atm. Never had an issue, of course, I dont have a 280 (yet)

Good luck on your quest. You must gather your party before venturing forth!

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Old 08-26-2008, 09:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Theres another thing that occurred to me.. you may have already tried it... Have you installed with just 3 or 4gb ?

Maybe your mainboard is crappin its pants with 8gb. (x64 or no) My own x64 rig only has 4gb atm. Never had an issue, of course, I dont have a 280 (yet)

Good luck on your quest. You must gather your party before venturing forth!

mtfbwya
At this point anything is worth a shot
However if I downgrade to 4gb, I'd be a tad bit disappointed. Might as well stick to XP Pro if that's the case. With PAE enabled XP Pro can utilize close to 3.5gb - 4gb memory. It's what I did have before going Vista.

What I'd really like is a more in-depth system log to find out why it's hard crashing without giving me any kind of reason why (or a way to disable reboot on system error). Instant black screen and reboot doesn't tell me much. Sometimes I don't mind getting a 'blue screen' if at least gives me a clue as to how I pharked up

The WEI log is just atrocious...


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Old 08-26-2008, 10:10 AM   #17
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EDIT>> before you read all that below chainz, can you humor me for one sec!
how about popping a premade winsat cert xml in the approrpriate directory??

I just tried it and it worked fine on mine. You hence wont need to run WEI. But when you check your score > Rclick 'My computer'>properties > the file will be read and scores listed.

When you did the fresh install above, was aeroon before you started the WEI Assessment?

Heres my original winsat file which I xml tweaked to satisfy my e-penis needs. Give it a try

* * *

Is this what youre after... definitely gives me more log info than I know what to do with

R click 'Computer' >Manage> Computer Management Console comes up>>
Event Viewer>Windows Logs.

If you want even more than that... check out these sysinternals utils at MS Technet... codeheads I know swear by em

beyond this point only geeks shall pass...!

btw chainz... what mainboard are you using.... is it certed to run 8gb on vista? Do you have the latest bios etc?

As for disabling auto restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technet
There are two ways to disable Auto-restart in Windows Vista.
Disabling Auto-Restart from the Advanced Boot Option

This method can be used even when the Windows Vista computer is not bootable; simply restart the machine and tap F8 repeatedly right after the manufacturer's startup screen appears, exactly as if you were booting into Safe Mode. If done properly, you will see the "Advanced Boot Options" menu. Select "Disable Automatic Restart on System Failure" and hit enter. The computer will attempt to boot with Auto-Restart disabled.
Disabling Auto-Restart from the System Properties Window

The second means of disabling Auto-Restart is very similar to the procedure for Windows XP, and thus only works if the system boots.

* Click on the Windows Vista Start button
* From the opened Vista Start menu Click Control panel
* In Control Panel Click the System icon
* In the System Window look on the Left hand side of the window and you will see a list of options. Click on the Advanced System Settings option
* Because Computer management requires administrative privileges you may find the the UAC(User Account Control) will pop up. If it does then enter the required information (if you are not the administrator) or, if you are the administrator, click the Continue button
* In the Advanced Settings window look for the Startup and Recovery section and then Click the Settings button
* In the Startup and recovery window look for the section marked System failure and remove the 'tick' mark from the 'Automatically Restart' option. Now press OK button
* Finally click the OK button on the System properties Window and then close the system window.
* From now on, when a problem causes a BSOD or another major error that halts the system, the PC will not automatically reboot. Rebooting manually will be necessary.
finally, If you like tweaking with your settings, you will like this app/site

winbubble

good luck mang

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Old 08-26-2008, 11:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
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EDIT>> before you read all that below chainz, can you humor me for one sec!
how about popping a premade winsat cert xml in the approrpriate directory??
Funny you should mention that because it's exactly what I did before leaving for work this morning System WEI is registering a "legit" 5.9 score.. but I don't know if that's really going to help in any matters where the system is likely to fail.

I would HOPE that Vista isn't relying on an .xml file to relay system stability. If so.. I'm never connecting to the internet again

Luckily, I had saved the .xml files from when I did manage to get WEI completely updated to straight 5.9's (paranoid freak here) Inside the .xml, if you change the scan date to the 'future', Vista uses it as your current scan when you re-open (My) Computer. Seems I was also using 177.23 drivers.. and I have no clue how I got them because my install disks start at 177.39

After Googling and downloading said drivers (Asus ftp), I installed and ran WEI.. *crash* sonova... However, since the drivers did install, and my old .xml references them.. I just finagled the date and used the old wei record.. hehehe...

I'd still like it to register wei legit though... if only for re-assurance that I don't have some underlying Direct 3d/X problem. dxdiag doesn't report any problems though.. and I have installed the DirectX 9.23 you provided a link to. I'm just fearing as soon as I start an app that utilizes Direct 3D, then it's gonna poop out on me even with the edited "legit" wei. WEI score in itself I don't care about..it's the fact my system dies when it tries to perform it

Been reading up on the 4gb vs 8gb though and there is alot of ppl having problems. And I wouldn't doubt this sub-par mobo has some factors in it. It is registered for 8gb.. but it's one of those "up to 8gb". I'm not to keen on "up to" http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...05&modelmenu=1

Might have to start messing with clock speeds. Maybe if 8gb @800mhz craps out.. maybe 8gb @667mhz (or 4gb @ 800 mhz). Who knows.

Thanks for the log lings and the no re-boot instructions (could've sworn I've done the re-boot trick though). I'll definitely double-check and try them out.


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Old 08-26-2008, 12:26 PM   #19
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As a lark, have you tried reproducing all your woes with just 4gb plugged in ??

The mb you specified is sortve new. I think some BIOS/driver updates will sort thisout fully. Best check what other users are a saying. I definitely know alot of people who are having 1066 nightmares. (vista or xp) Though less so with 800/667

This is why I ultimately ditched my DIY ALL approach and went for shuttle barebones that had "certified to works with these GPU" guarantee. I already have enough grey hairs at my ripe old age of 32

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Old 08-26-2008, 12:40 PM   #20
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As a lark, have you tried reproducing all your woes with just 4gb plugged in ??

The mb you specified is sortve new. I think some BIOS/driver updates will sort thisout fully. Best check what other users are a saying. I definitely know alot of people who are having 1066 nightmares. (vista or xp) Though less so with 800/667

This is why I ultimately ditched my DIY ALL approach and went for shuttle barebones that had "certified to works with these GPU" guarantee. I already have enough grey hairs at my ripe old age of 32

mtfbwya
I hear ya bro

The bios rev in both my comp's bios and mobo imprint match the latest available on ASUS' site, but I'll double-check to see if there's any other options available.. gawd I hate flashing bios, especially since it's raining here for the next few days. Last thing I need now is for a brown out or lightning right as I'm flashing

Tonight I'm gonna strip it down to 4gb and try my luck. I really hate messing with ranges and voltage too, but I think I'm gonna have to tinker. The "auto" function in the bios is setting who knows what specs in there

Shoulda boughta Dell hehehe


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Old 08-26-2008, 12:45 PM   #21
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One more thing, which Im confused as to why I didnt think of earlier... (you may have already tried it)

any chance of trying this card in
>another rig(with another mobo)
>with xp or vista x86

Simply just to verify that the card is working properly. I know BFG is a great brand etc, but drawing an unlucky card isnt unheard of.

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Old 08-26-2008, 12:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrotoy7 View Post
One more thing, which Im confused as to why I didnt think of earlier... (you may have already tried it)

any chance of trying this card in
>another rig(with another mobo)
>with xp or vista x86

Simply just to verify that the card is working properly. I know BFG is a great brand etc, but drawing an unlucky card isnt unheard of.

mtfbwya
Yeah, already did that too.
I always keep my "backup" configured before gutting it.. just in case of episodes like this. I'm half tempted to throw the sucker in my mac and be done with it


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Old 08-26-2008, 01:40 PM   #23
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so it worked ok in xp? interesting

ever tried any of the non CUDA driver builds?

With 280+ release imminent, I daresay another specific driver set will waft onto the internets...

>edit> actually 177.92 beta just wafted onto the internets today.... *downloads*

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Old 08-27-2008, 12:44 PM   #24
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>edit> actually 177.92 beta just wafted onto the internets today.... *downloads*
wow, that one looks very promising.. assuming it does what it says it does.
Guess I'll give it a shot tonight before yanking out sticks and fiddling with 'lectricity

EDIT:

Well, the problem lies in the motherboard itself. Can't say I'm surprised since it's the cheapest part of the system (and my lesson has been learned)

The P5k-SE does NOT support over-clocking very friendly like.. in fact it's very shaky and one of the hardest boards to do it because of it's unreliable temp/voltage reports.

My vid card is factory overclocked.. ergo.. clash of the titans and me about to have an aneurysm I'm not going to under-clock the card to base settings since the board is going to cause unrelated issues down the line.. it's best to replace the weak link while here and now...


Soooo.. I already have 8gb of DDR2 ram 1066mhz. I don't feel like nixing them and having to buy DDR3 for a 790i motherboard.. so what's everyone's opinion about the 780i's?

I was thinking about this one:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=E145-2040

It supports triple-sli, at 3 x pcie16 (nice). Is definitely PCI 2.0 compliant, has 2 additional SATA ports then my current pos mobo, has a built in firewire port (perfect for my hub) plus all the other goodies.

Can anyone foresee any problems with his board considering the other parts I've listed in previous posts. It looks like a sound board to me, but of course, I also bought this current crap-mobo I have now


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Old 08-27-2008, 02:40 PM   #25
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I probably would've made the same mistake as you ChAiNz because I've heard nothing but good things about ASUS' overclocking capabilities. The EVGA 780i looks like a nVidia wet dream. Found a vid of its BIOS for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApUiWgzUkGM Sorry I'm not more help.


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Old 08-27-2008, 05:57 PM   #26
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I must admit, high end GPU usually walks hand in hand with high end chipset MB. This is why Im old and cautious and stick with my "designed for.." barebones >> might explain why Ive never had a nightmare like the above listed posts. *touches wood* I have used an Asus MB once(A8N-SLI deluxe), for my 7950GX2...its usually the ones with SLI in the title that hint that they should play nice with high end kit and PSUs etc!(They quite often support up to 16/32GB RAM as well)

Yep, if 790 is a no go, 780 is youre best bet.

The one youve linkied to looks great HH at G3D also seemed quite fond of this XFX 780i board...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia...i-review--xfx/

btw - I have the 177.92 up and running on my own x64 with the 8800GTS 640. All purring along nicely. CUDA junk built in.

good luck!

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Old 08-30-2008, 12:54 PM   #27
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Beast is up and running nicely. This new motherboard has soooo many options it's not even funny. Definitely learned my lesson on cheapo motherboards, this thing is a dream

Running 177.92, can run WEI like it's not even funny.. completes every single time, and running optimal custom voltages with fan control.

Stress testing for a day and a half and it's still going strong. F@H all nite long with no problems either.. w00t!


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Old 08-30-2008, 07:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da View Post
Beast is up and running nicely. This new motherboard has soooo many options it's not even funny. Definitely learned my lesson on cheapo motherboards, this thing is a dream

Running 177.92, can run WEI like it's not even funny.. completes every single time, and running optimal custom voltages with fan control.

Stress testing for a day and a half and it's still going strong. F@H all nite long with no problems either.. w00t!
very good! case closed it seems

Moral of the story for those considering an upgrade:
Want to run a high end card? Think about about a high end mainboard(and PSU). Failure to do so will result in pain and fist waving

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Old 08-31-2008, 07:44 AM   #29
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very good! case closed it seems

Moral of the story for those considering an upgrade:
Want to run a high end card? Think about about a high end mainboard(and PSU). Failure to do so will result in pain and fist waving

mtfbwya
Yup, case closed.. running 3 days straight stress testing.

Highest temperature clocked 76c (and on the GPU no less).. everything else was mid-upper 40c's as far as peak active (non idle) temperatures. Air Cooled Only. Nice thing about the board is that not only does the North Bridge have this massive heat radiator and pipes.. it comes with an attachable fan that clicks onto the main heat sink. I'll get some pics here soon (with a good camera ). Does a decent job too.. however it can also be replaced by higher end fans because of the standard mount size. Something I may look in to.

If I was to ever get watercooling.. this beast would easily reach 3.8-4.0mhz quad.. and possibly a higher fsb for RAM (currently 1066), however since I need guaranteed stability, I've clocked down to stock(ish). 3.0mhz 1333 mhz quad core cpu / 8gb 1066mhz RAM.

PSU 135mm Fan / 125mm Rear mount case fan / 125mm side mount case fan / 60mm NB chipset fan / GTX280 fan & exhaust*

*- important to notice, the first OLD initial 'release pics' of the GTX280's showed as 2 DVI ports stacked. That's not the case. The design is 2 DVI side-by-side with a heat exhaust. See pic above. So the monster card has both fan & exhaust cooling. Bonus.


F@H been running straight (other than reboots for prog/driver installs).. with no hang ups, though I'd still disable it if I were to be running a processing hungry apps/game

I definitely have learned alot during this fiasco, so I won't complain about the past week... that much... hehehe


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Old 09-02-2008, 12:11 PM   #30
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Sorry about your problems Chainz. However with a little research you could have found out that the low end P5K motherboards were having overclocking problems even with XP. This has been known since the end of last year.

I have always used intel based chipset motherboards from Asus & Abit. The only time I have had a problem was when a friend accidentally cut a trace while trying to unclip a HSF from a 815e motherboard. The other problem I have had was needing to replace northbridge fan on an IC7-G Max II. Hell I am still running an ASUS TUSL-C (815e) as my web surfer.


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Old 09-03-2008, 01:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainz
this beast would easily reach 3.8-4.0mhz quad.
dude! you did it again !! You must subconsciously enjoy undervaluing your CPU

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Old 09-05-2008, 07:07 PM   #32
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dude! you did it again !! You must subconsciously enjoy undervaluing your CPU

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Gah!
I'm beginning to think you're right... hehehe


EDIT:

Hey guys, quick question... I have installed DirectX 9.24 BUT, would it hurt (or is it possible) to install DirectX 9.0c as well... or is it unnecessary?

Vista doesn't seem to like (as much) older DirectX apps.. however I'm not sure if installing 9.0c would even fix anything. Just wondering if it's something that might help out to prevent any shortcomings in the future. Vista 64 seems to handle DirectX 9 apps rather wonky to say the least. They work, but I doubt the stability as the response/performance doesn't seem up to par as it was in XP Pro (32bit).

checkback: hmm..nevermind methinks. Looks as if Vista's DX10 is the 'one-up' version of DX9 (even though the code is different) Vista's DX10 sure has crappy DX9 'emulation' *sigh*

RE-EDIT:

Hmmm...this looks interesting however, it being so old, I can't help to think (or hope) this hotfix would've been included in the tons of downloads through Windows Update.. though I can't seem to find said update in any of my installed updates or history list? Anyone with any experience on it?


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Old 09-06-2008, 03:04 AM   #33
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DirectX is a cumulative package. Whatever is in 9.0c is in there

From your 'rut ro' thread I was under the impression that you were going to save yourself some of the inevitable compatibility hassles from older apps(especially in x64) by dual booting into XP. Vista is big install as it is, building endless legacy layers into would suck. eg. If someone wants to run a test based RPG from win98, you shouldnt even have thought about Vista.... virtualise or mutli boot..

Leave x64 for the stuff that was written for it, is proven to work on it... aka .. new stuff

good luck mang

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Old 09-06-2008, 07:13 AM   #34
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From your 'rut ro' thread I was under the impression that you were going to save yourself some of the inevitable compatibility hassles from older apps(especially in x64) by dual booting into XP. Vista is big install as it is, building endless legacy layers into would suck. eg. If someone wants to run a test based RPG from win98, you shouldnt even have thought about Vista.... virtualise or mutli boot..

Leave x64 for the stuff that was written for it, is proven to work on it... aka .. new stuff
Yeah, I must admit in my haste to get this damnable machine running.. I had bypassed the initial XP / Vista dual-boot. That's going to be fixed this weekend

I'll probably wind up just loading XP on it's own drive and configure a boot loader on a flash drive. Set my BIOS to boot from flash drive first, then cd then harddrive. So.. whenever I want XP, I pop in the flash drive, re-boot.. voila. I don't like partitioning a drive unless it's one huge one.

In case of meltdown, at least it'll be isolated to one drive rather than me having to worry about accidentally formatting both OS's rather than just the single partition I had intended to (something I'm sure I would do)


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Old 09-06-2008, 09:18 AM   #35
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I know peeps who run xp off a SD/CF card, some do it from usb, others from one of those sata converters. Funkee, cheapass SSD

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Old 09-08-2008, 08:05 PM   #36
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I know peeps who run xp off a SD/CF card, some do it from usb, others from one of those sata converters. Funkee, cheapass SSD

mtfbwya
Oh wow.. yeah, i don't think I'd be that ballsy.

I think I'll just run a boot loader from flash (aka a "faux dongle"), but have XP Pro sitting nicely on it's own internal hard drive.

I'll probably reconfigure my drives so that Vista lives on 1TB, XP lives on another 1TB and use the 500gb for misc. scratch disk, storage, etc. I can do all of my backups and important disk images/restores to my external raid

System will be down off and on for the weekend so keep those F@H WU pumping man... hehehe. I'll finish up this current unit then probably shut down whilst the installs are going on. I'll rejoin the fray once I can get to a happy medium (shouldn't take too long).

EDIT:

System is back up now with dual boot goodness

I decided against both the flash boot loader and installing Vista on a 1TB drive. The 500gb is fine and I always have access to more space should I need it. XP however did get it's own 1TB drive since I have loads of stuff that works better in a true 32bit environment rather than Vista's 64bit 'attempt'.

Setting up a dual-boot "with Vista installed first" turned out to be much less painful than I had anticipated (granted, as long as you have the Vista install disc..hehehe).

After installing XP, it of course overwrites the boot loader, so while XP boots fine.. Vista won't boot. XP apparently overwrites the MBR with it's old fashioned boot.ini file.

Luckily, if you boot from the Vista install disc and choose System Recovery, there's a nice little utility which re-enables Vista's boot loader (very first option). This in turn makes Vista boot, BUT kills the XP boot.. but worry not. Here's where EasyBCD comes to the rescue! (thank you Astro for listing that lovely tool)

Boot in to Vista, install and start this beautiful little utility and it will allow you to append XP in to your boot sequence. Since it uses Vista's very own built-in multi-boot loader, every time you reboot.. you'll get the nice little screen prompt asking you which OS to load.

Worked on the first try.. and if *I* can get it to work.. anyone can
So fear not if you want to install multiple OS's with Vista installed first. Just make sure you have both the Vista install disc and EasyBCD and you're home free.

NOTE: This method was 'Vista on one drive, XP on a separate'... so it did not involve 'one disk with partitioning'.
Since I don't like partitions, I'm not sure if setting up the multi-boot on other configurations would be as easy


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Old 09-09-2008, 10:48 AM   #37
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future scholars will marvel at the user friendly brilliance of my multiboot guide

I hate those how to's that get murky or too technical from the second line... ugh

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Old 09-09-2008, 11:40 AM   #38
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What's this thread about again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAiNz.2da View Post
It's more about the F@H, but since it also affects Vista
Ah ok.

Isn't it odd that Microsoft doesn't provide a simple dual-booting exe akin to EasyBCD?


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Old 09-09-2008, 12:08 PM   #39
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What's this thread about again?
Ah ok.

Isn't it odd that Microsoft doesn't provide a simple dual-booting exe akin to EasyBCD?
vistas bootloader is pretty good at taking legacy installs under its wing. you can do a xp>vista install and never even need easy bcd. system properties will allow you to easily set default os etc.

i'd prefer to let a third party do this because a ms utility isnt going to bother with linux or mac compatibility, is it?!

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Old 09-10-2008, 02:11 PM   #40
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What's this thread about again?
My random mumblings.. aka "Cz's Microsoft Vista Adventures"

Figured I'd keep it contained rather than spamming the forum

However, 'slightly' on(off)topic of F@H. Ran a test run with F@H on XP compared to Vista 64... I gotta say, I'll be sticking with Vista as far as folding goes.

F@H, maybe because of the delimited RAM (?), in XP seriously slowed down the executions of things. I couldn't even dream of browsing the web with the stuttering I was getting.. and it was completely tasking one of the cores (up to 100%). In Vista, F@H at most tasked a single core at 25%. This was all happening with the GPU client Core temps were also higher by about 5C. Not world-ending.. but enough for me to not like the XP / F@H route.. hehehe

Anywho.. as long as I have XP I'm not too worried. It'll mostly be used for gaming now since Vista allows me to use more RAM for productive programs (Adobe, etc.) more efficiently. After Effects and Photoshop are a whole new world in Vista compared to XP (or 32 compared to 64 bit perhaps). Closer to what my mac can do.. and that's always a good thing


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