Getting sick of people always saying this...

MajinMikeyX · 10-06-2008, 01:27 AM

When people online always say something, like for an example: "wth, i thought that yoda said only 2 were allowed as sith, one master, one apprentice, no more, no less."

Yeah, I agree on that, but about Starkiller and Vader, I mean, he's a freaking secret apprentice, it isn't a formal thing. If they took the 'secret' out of there then I would understand and agree with their complaints, but cmon. Formally, the master is Palpatine and the student is Vader, but Vader takes a secret apprentice, which doesn't really contradict the rule, because it's a secret.

And I apologize for how many times it has the word secret in this post

Hayden Kered · 10-06-2008, 05:38 AM

One must understand that not every body is familiar with the EU!

Darth Eclipse · 10-06-2008, 08:07 AM

Starkiller is a Grey Jedi because of the rule of two.

Zerimar Nyliram · 10-06-2008, 04:12 PM

No, he's a Dark Jedi. At least for the first half of the game. After that, he is seemingly redeemed to the light side but still makes use of dark side powers, so perhaps by that point he is sort of a Grey Jedi power-wise, only leaning towards the light morality-wise.

As for the topic at hand, Lucas Film has stated that Galen is not a Sith, as dictated by the Rule of Two. Sidious and Vader both had a number of Dark Jedi apprentices throughout the expanded universe, as did Dooku.

I think Galen is only a "Sith apprentice" in his own mind. He believes that he and Vader will overthrow Palpatine, at which point he will be ordained as a true Sith Lord under the Rule of Two. So in his mind he may as well be a Sith already.

I don't know why people keep bringing this up, either. Anyone with half a brain can figure it out. Just because someone follows the dark side does not make them a Sith. Any Force user can choose to go down the dark path. The Sith are an organization that one must join; or rather be selected.

Justus · 10-06-2008, 05:42 PM

Yeah the EU has tons of "dark Jedi" but I wouldn't consider any of them Sith. I guess Galen would fall in the dark Jedi category. Look at Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight, there are like what... 7 dark Jedi in that game, although I think had Jerec succeeded in his plans he would have eliminated most if not all of them so he wouldn't have any competition for the Valley of the Jedi.

Granted a lot of the EU was written before the prequels came about, so almost nobody knew about the only two rule.

LordOfTheFish · 10-06-2008, 07:43 PM

People can be so ungrateful... Why pick out every single flaw?

Lord Foley · 10-06-2008, 07:49 PM

The Rule of Two was best described by Captain Barbosa: "They're more like guidelines anyway." At least I think that's what he was talking about...

But either way, I never saw Palpatine or Vader as the type even to obey the rule of two. Palpatine always did what he thought would best serve his interests in the end, and Vader's just a Jedi gone wrong, not some old-order sith who respects all their ideas and customs.

Shem · 10-06-2008, 10:49 PM

Remember when Sidious told Vader that he had betrayed him by taking Starkiller as his apprentice?

Hayden Kered · 10-06-2008, 11:43 PM

Sidious also told Vader that he had forgotten his place, meaning that he was going against the Rule of Two by taking on an apprentice.

Zerimar Nyliram · 10-07-2008, 03:35 PM

I agree with those who say that Sidious and Vader remained loyal to the Rule of Two (albeit very liberally, taking many Dark Jedi apprentices and thereby paying more observance to the letter of the law rather than they spirit of the law). However, I wish to throw in this statement just for everyone to chew on: Sidious himself betrayed his own master in the same manner he accuses Vader of when he took Darth Maul as his apprentice while Plagueis was still alive.

Endorenna · 10-07-2008, 04:06 PM

Yea, but it's not betrayal if you don't get caught!

Justus · 10-07-2008, 04:49 PM

Yup, it is the way of the Sith to betray the other. Whether the apprentice kills the master, or the master finds a new apprentice and wishes to eliminate the current one.

Shem · 10-07-2008, 07:21 PM

The best source to use in this situation that can't be argued is in the original trilogy starting with Vader's conversation with Sidious in the ESB. Both Sidious and Vader agreed that Luke would have been a good dark side apprentice to add to their team. Then how they plotted together in ROTJ to convert Luke to their side.

"I'm looking forward to completing your training. In time you will call me master." - Darth Sidious

Lord Foley · 10-07-2008, 09:21 PM

Might sound like I'm arguing against myself a little, but remember: Both Vader and Sidious were plotting to use Luke to destroy the other.

When I say they don't follow the old order Sith ways, I simply mean, they may observe the Rule of Two, but if it served either of them better, they would break it. These aren't the Sith of Old who were directly affected by what a Sith Order would do itself. They followed Rule of Two more out of tradition and habit than anything else, IMO.

Zerimar Nyliram · 10-08-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endorenna

Yea, but it's not betrayal if you don't get caught!

Yes, but the question of whether or not Vader truly got caught or if Galen has simply been Sidious's tool the entire time remains a mystery.

RyuuKage · 10-10-2008, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram

Yes, but the question of whether or not Vader truly got caught or if Galen has simply been Sidious's tool the entire time remains a mystery.

i think initially it was real, then Palpy came up with another brilliant scheme, lol

Yar-El · 10-10-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajinMikeyX

When people online always say something, like for an example: "wth, i thought that yoda said only 2 were allowed as sith, one master, one apprentice, no more, no less."

Canon allways changes. Rules for the Jedi and Sith keep changing, and sometimes its hard to tell what is not canon. Saying the word allowed is somewhat focusing on some type of law. I don't think anything in Star Wars is concrete.

SW01 · 10-11-2008, 11:12 AM

The Rule of Two focuses on there only being two official Sith - one overall Master, and his/her apprentice. Succession is done through betrayal of the master. (e.g. Sidious' betrayal of Plagueis.) Part of that betrayal is the taking of an apprentice - it shows that the current apprentice believes he should be the master. Consider Dooku trying to align Kenobi with himself against Sidious in Ep.II.

This then necessitates the removal of one of those Sith - bringing us back to the Rule of Two.

That's my view on it anyway.

RyuuKage · 10-12-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SW01

The Rule of Two focuses on there only being two official Sith - one overall Master, and his/her apprentice. Succession is done through betrayal of the master. (e.g. Sidious' betrayal of Plagueis.) Part of that betrayal is the taking of an apprentice - it shows that the current apprentice believes he should be the master. Consider Dooku trying to align Kenobi with himself against Sidious in Ep.II.

This then necessitates the removal of one of those Sith - bringing us back to the Rule of Two.

That's my view on it anyway.

That would be correct, though sometimes the apprentice is taken after the betrayal. That part's really a matter of personal preference for the Sith in question. It's usually enough if the apprentice thinks he can defeat his master.

Exile007 · 10-12-2008, 10:24 AM

Palpatine took in Maul before he completed his training with Plagueis.

Zerimar Nyliram · 10-12-2008, 05:06 PM

As I said.

Exile007 · 10-13-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram

As I said.

Whoops my bad.

Pwnzor326 · 10-13-2008, 07:26 PM

Rules were meant to be broken

LordOfTheFish · 10-13-2008, 10:13 PM

Sith are baddies... What makes people think they would listen to rules?

Zerimar Nyliram · 10-13-2008, 10:55 PM

Uh, well history has proven time and time again that they cannot exist for long as a large Order because the very nature of their beliefs always make them end up destroying each other. If they want to continue to exist, they'll stick to the Rule of Two, which was designed primarily to prevent this from happening again.