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Old 10-04-2008, 12:07 AM   #121
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Now, then: infinite fleets? no. its *possible* for the star forge to create infinite ships, but no one would do that. they'd create heaps of ships, but and infinite amount. they couldnt truly have "infinite" fleets, because theyd run out of space. but they'd have heck of a lot of them, cause galaxy is huge.
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Yeah but this whole topic is out of context: Revan (maybe Darth?) vs Pre-Vader Anakin with the Death Star II, doesn't that seem a bit odd to you?
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The entire topic is ludicrous from my viewpoint. If you'll notice, I never said anything about which of the two would win in a fight. I'm only debating what isn't totally arbitrary.
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I think we all need to take into account something very, very important: even in fiction, this fight could NEVER HAPPEN. Period. There is NO WAY Revan would ever survive long enough to fight Anakin. Besides the fact that it didn't happen. Stop taking it quite so seriously and post your opinions on the actual topic. That's my suggestion. Peace!
we know it wouldnt happen. but come on, people! dont douse the fun! there's no reason not to discuss it!

uh, since there are no objections to my ealier post, id take it that what i said is correct...?



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Old 10-04-2008, 12:16 AM   #122
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*Snort* It doesn't matter how fast the Star Forge can construct droids, by the time you're able to create an army capable of conquering an entire populated galaxy with it, you will have eaten that star several times over. Besides, I'm pretty sure it would supernova long before you ate it all as the gravity of the sun was reduced.
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Old 10-04-2008, 02:11 AM   #123
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Besides, if said field couldn't be avoided, then why wasn't the Sith fleet or the Star Forge itself affected by it?
In KOTOR 1, it is stated that they (Sith fleet/Star Forge) had something built into them which made them immune to the field. Revan probably figured out how to make said something when he studied the field on the Rakatan planet. Also, the Sith would have to be immune to the field if they had all those Dark Jedi in the temple. One other thing that indicates the 'immunity to the death trap' was the fact that Malak was torturing Bastilla in the Rakatan Temple.

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By the time you're able to create an army capable of conquering an entire populated galaxy with it, you will have eaten that star several times over.
Do you know how much matter is in the Star Forge's star? At what rate does a fully operating Star Forge eat stars?


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T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-04-2008, 02:28 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Wookiepedia Star Forge Article
The Star Forge was a giant automated shipyard, designed to create the most powerful army of all time, constructed by the Rakatan Infinite Empire in 30,000 BBY, five thousand years before the rise of the Galactic Republic.
The Star Forge was able to work for about 26,000 years without draining the sun completely. I don't think producing a huge number of droids/ships would eat the sun.



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Old 10-04-2008, 03:47 AM   #125
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It would be a tie. Anakin (Before Sith Lord) Had the potential to be the most powerful. As where Revan became the most powerful of his/her time. There is a slight more chance that Revan would win since no one knows what his/her limits are either.


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Old 10-04-2008, 10:00 AM   #126
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In KOTOR 1, it is stated that they (Sith fleet/Star Forge) had something built into them which made them immune to the field.
Who says this and where?

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The Star Forge was able to work for about 26,000 years without draining the sun completely. I don't think producing a huge number of droids/ships would eat the sun.
The Star Forge was not drawing from the Sun for 26,000 years. Nobody was controlling it for 26,000 years; it was just sitting there.


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Old 10-04-2008, 12:30 PM   #127
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Who says this and where?
I believe it was Carth just after the Ebon Hawk crashed on the Unknown World. He said something about the Sith fighters not getting pulled down, so they had to have an immunity to the field. Right alongside it, he said that Revan needed to get the field down before the Republic Fleet got there, or they'd be pulled down, too.

Ah, there's another point! When the Death Star got within firing range on the Star Forge (if it got that far), it would get shut down by the field and smash into the Unknown World, along with whatever fleet it brought with it.


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The Star Forge was not drawing from the Sun for 26,000 years. Nobody was controlling it for 26,000 years; it was just sitting there.
Good point. However, the Rakata managed to make enough droids/ships/etc. to conquer the galaxy. Revan has several million troops, according to the arms dealer on Korriban. The Rakatan planet isn't very big. They probably had no more people than Revan did. They still beat everyone.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:17 PM   #128
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Ah, there's another point! When the Death Star got within firing range on the Star Forge (if it got that far), it would get shut down by the field and smash into the Unknown World, along with whatever fleet it brought with it.
That's only speculation. Who's to say that the Death Star would definitely be taken down by it? The thing's pretty freaking huge and we know next to nothing about how the field works, anyway.

Aside from that, what range does the Death Star's superlaser have? It might not even need to go through this field thing to get within range of whatever it wants to blow up.

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However, the Rakata managed to make enough droids/ships/etc. to conquer the galaxy.
Conquer the galaxy? The Infinite Empire controlled only about 500 planets at its height. That's pretty small compared to the Republic as of TPM.

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Revan has several million troops, according to the arms dealer on Korriban.
There's no way the army of a major galactic power at that point in time could be so ridiculously small.

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They still beat everyone.
The significance of that statement depends on whether or not the Rakatans had any enemies that could pose a legitimate military threat. As far as I know, there is no evidence of this.


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Old 10-04-2008, 01:25 PM   #129
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Conquer the galaxy? The Infinite Empire controlled only about 500 planets at its height. That's pretty small compared to the Republic as of TPM.
The Republic didn't control them, on the biblical meaning of the word, not as an empire does.


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Old 10-04-2008, 05:07 PM   #130
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The Republic was really more of a loose confederacy. But that's not really relevant. A million soldiers is JACK SQUAT in a galaxy. The Galaxy has some four hundred billion stars, 1/2 of which were habitable by some kind of life, 10% of which had life, and 1/1000 of those developed sentient life. So that's twenty million different sentient species. If we assume a huge low and and have an average of one million individuals for every race, a fairly ridiculously low number, that means we have twenty trillion sentient individuals in the galaxy. Assuming that 1% of those were capable of fighting in one way or another, that means that Revan's invincible star forge army of a few million is facing off against an army 200 billion strong.

Hosed?
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:49 PM   #131
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That's only speculation. Who's to say that the Death Star would definitely be taken down by it? The thing's pretty freaking huge and we know next to nothing about how the field works, anyway.

Aside from that, what range does the Death Star's superlaser have? It might not even need to go through this field thing to get within range of whatever it wants to blow up.
You're right, we don't know what the Death Star's range is. Chances are, it would have to go to through the field. Chances are, it would be shut down. It would then crash into the Rakatan planet and--my word, I don't even want to think about the effect THAT would have on the system and/or the Star Forge Star! Might even throw something into the star that would make the Star Forge short-circuit.


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Conquer the galaxy? The Infinite Empire controlled only about 500 planets at its height. That's pretty small compared to the Republic as of TPM.
Only 500? Hmm, that I don't remember. Of course, I haven't played through the Unknown World lately, so you're probably right. Even so, that doesn't mean that the Star Forge was incapable of making an army to conquer the galaxy. Remember that Malak was beatin' up on the Republic pretty dang good in K1 with the Star Forge's resources.


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There's no way the army of a major galactic power at that point in time could be so ridiculously small.
I wasn't saying it was. I was quoting the arms dealer. Revan probably had several hundred million squads of troops, what with all the planets he conquered.

One other thing to remember is that the Mandalorians had conquered a great deal of the galaxy themselves. They weren't exactly numbering in the several billion number either! How did they do it? Strategy. How did Revan defeat them? Strategy. With the Star Forge and strategy, Revan could destroy the Death Star, even without the stupid Rakatan field.

BTW, don't you think Revan could slip a few spies into the Empire and find out all the weaknesses of the Death Star, just like the Rebels did? He'd know every joint on that thing. If need be, he could sneak in there (out of his usual garb, of course), and turn off the shields, just like Obi-wan did to the tractor beams. Then he'd steal a TIE and scoot outta there!


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-04-2008, 08:03 PM   #132
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Chances are, it would have to go to through the field.
You can't say that unless you know the thing's maximum range.

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One other thing to remember is that the Mandalorians had conquered a great deal of the galaxy themselves. They weren't exactly numbering in the several billion number either!
Since when weren't they?

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BTW, don't you think Revan could slip a few spies into the Empire and find out all the weaknesses of the Death Star, just like the Rebels did? He'd know every joint on that thing. If need be, he could sneak in there (out of his usual garb, of course), and turn off the shields, just like Obi-wan did to the tractor beams. Then he'd steal a TIE and scoot outta there!
Sure, it's possible, but lots of things are possible (like Revan being discovered and subsequently captured or killed). On the other side of the coin, the repulsor thingy that protects the Star Forge could probably be disabled by the Empire in the same manner that Revan and his/her buddies did. Or maybe they would fail. At this point, however, we're getting so deep into speculatory interpretations (among other things) that following this line any further is impossible before we find ourselves writing KOTOR time travel fan fiction.


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Old 10-04-2008, 09:04 PM   #133
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The Republic was already crippled by a significant percentage of it's fleet disappearing after the end of the Mandalorian War. (It doesn't make sense to refer to it as the Mandalorian Wars, since there is no reason to believe that peace or an armistice was ever declared and broken between the beginning and the aftermath of Malachor V.) Besides, the Star Forge is probably a great shipyard and would give anybody a nice edge, but the ships it builds are four thousand years out of date with Imperial Warships and don't seem to be powerful enough to take on the Republic warships of the day casually.
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Old 10-05-2008, 01:01 AM   #134
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the ships it builds are four thousand years out of date with Imperial Warships and don't seem to be powerful enough to take on the Republic warships of the day casually.
They may not be powerful enough (I strongly doubt that) but they can outnumber the Empire's fleet. The Star Forge just keeps getting faster at producing ships (as Saul Karath frequently says) and can easily outnumber the Empire.



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Old 10-05-2008, 01:10 AM   #135
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Outnumber them with ships that are, what, a quarter of the size of an ISD (Of which the Empire has 25,000, not counting Victory-class, Venator-class, Executor-class, Vengeance-Class, and the various other classes of Star Destroyers and Super Star Destroyers.), with out of date shields, weapon systems, and gravity well generators that would be useless against the massively superior hyperdrives of the Galactic Empire. Besides, all it would take is the Empire locating the Star Forge (Hardly an impossibility) and hitting hit from ultra-long range with the Death Star.

Besides, you can't create an infinite fleet without an infinite amount of crew and fuel, both of which require time to acquire.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:38 AM   #136
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Outnumber them with ships that are, what, a quarter of the size of an ISD
Sith Interdictors are 600 meters long, while ISD's are 1600 meters long.
Also, Sith Centurion-class destroyers are 1200 meters long.
Not exactly a quarter.



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Old 10-05-2008, 02:53 AM   #137
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Sith Centurion-class destroyers have never been seen to be constructed by the Star Forge. And when you also consider how much wider and taller the ISD is, my numbers are probably still accurate.

At any rate, size doesn't really matter. The fact is that the Imperial Navy is superior in every way.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:21 AM   #138
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They may not be powerful enough (I strongly doubt that) but they can outnumber the Empire's fleet. The Star Forge just keeps getting faster at producing ships (as Saul Karath frequently says) and can easily outnumber the Empire.
They don't have the manpower for all those ships nor do they use droids like the CIS do so an infinite fleet would be pretty useless if you are heavily under crewed or if some of the ships just float in space.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:48 PM   #139
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As we have never actually seen them in battle, I don't think we can really say.

This argument about the Star Forge and Revan vs. the Death Star and Anakin seems to be going in circles, at least to me. I suggest we, to fall back on the over-used term, 'agree to disagree'.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-05-2008, 06:30 PM   #140
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Maybe, but this is entertaining.

If Interdictor-Class vessels were really powerful enough to tangle with an ISD, they would have been used during the Galactic Civil War. A lot. But, he-hey, we've never seen ANY of them outside of KotoR. Considering the Star Forge is supposed to be able to build an infinite fleet in a finite amount of time by the typical argument, why aren't there bazillions of these things floating around in space, waiting for the Rebels or the CIS or the Republic to commandeer 'em?
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:20 PM   #141
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If Interdictor-Class vessels were really powerful enough to tangle with an ISD, they would have been used during the Galactic Civil War. A lot. But, he-hey, we've never seen ANY of them outside of KotoR. Considering the Star Forge is supposed to be able to build an infinite fleet in a finite amount of time by the typical argument, why aren't there bazillions of these things floating around in space
Because after KotoR either the Star Forge was destroyed by the Republic or the the Star Forge fell dormant after Revan left for the unknown region of space and no one else was able to use it.

Malak didn't exactly use the Star Forge to produce massive amounts of ships either prefering to smash his enemies rather than blast them to dust (except Revan apparently) and Revan limited his/her time using it to avoid becoming controlled by it like the Rakatans so I think Revan used it when s/he needed to but did not rely solely on it.

Also I think that the later Star Destroyers and other cruisers were based on the design of the Interdictor Class.


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Old 10-05-2008, 07:28 PM   #142
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Old 10-05-2008, 07:35 PM   #143
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So? The Interdictor Class was a Republic vessel before the Mandalorian Wars. Presumably, they were either too expensive or too ineffective to be worthwhile to continue to build. If that wasn't the case.

Why wouldn't Malak? You yourself said he liked to smash his enemies. What better way to do that than with overwhelming numbers? I'll tell you why. Because he didn't have the resources. He didn't have the fuel, and he didn't have the crew. That's why.

And it's pretty obvious that the Star Destroyers weren't based on Interdictors. Exhibit One, their design. Star Destroyers are a fairly standard Dagger shape.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/st...s/f/f0/ISD.jpg

The Leviathan, on the other hand, is a very odd design. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/st..._screen098.jpg

Now, there are some design similarities, but the differences are pretty obvious.

More importantly, it is effectively impossible for the Star Destroyer designs to be based off of the design of the Interdictors. The Republic Navy was in a period of effective non-existence prior to the Clone Wars (See Outbound Flight, for example), and it's pretty obvious that the original Star Destroyer design was based off of the Acclamators.

Besides, the Star Destroyer is a pretty obvious design, the dagger shape allowing for maximum firepower while exposing a limited profile.

And even if it were based off the Interdictors, so what? That doesn't change the fact that the Sith crap is FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OUT OF DATE. Do you realize that if it were a modern army facing an army four thousand years out of date, they'd be lucky if they were tribals with bronze spears?
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:25 AM   #144
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The Star Forge was not drawing from the Sun for 26,000 years. Nobody was controlling it for 26,000 years; it was just sitting there.
what about ajunta pall and the ancient sithies? the "secret" of his? that was only known to the dark lords? and the star map that was in naga sadow's tomb? so yeah.

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Aside from that, what range does the Death Star's superlaser have? It might not even need to go through this field thing to get within range of whatever it wants to blow up.

that looks close enough to get pulled in.
and the imps fleet would be pulled in too. remember the capitol ship on lehon's beach.
and here: the hawk's systems have already been messed up by the field before this distance.



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Old 10-06-2008, 09:02 AM   #145
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Also, Sith Centurion-class destroyers are 1200 meters long.
Not exactly a quarter.
How big the Sith vessels were is kind of a moot point, since their biggest and strongest capital ship's (Centurion-class) firepower is outnumbered at least a dozen times over by an ISD.

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what about ajunta pall and the ancient sithies? the "secret" of his? that was only known to the dark lords? and the star map that was in naga sadow's tomb? so yeah.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, since you phrased it so poorly, so I'll just have to guess.

Α. There is no evidence that Pall was referring to the Star Forge, or that any Sith used it before Revan and Malak.
Β. There is in fact evidence against the idea that he was referring to it, simply the fact that canon mentions the conflict that he and his comrades fought in (the Hundred-Year Darkness) ended with them being severely outnumbered.
Γ. Even if it did have anything to do with the ancient Sith, what does it matter? Who cares?

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that looks close enough to get pulled in.
and the imps fleet would be pulled in too. remember the capitol ship on lehon's beach.
and here: the hawk's systems have already been messed up by the field before this distance.
If you could use a source that actually cares about technical accuracy (which Empire at War is not), you might have something to go on here.


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Old 10-06-2008, 02:59 PM   #146
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So? The Interdictor Class was a Republic vessel before the Mandalorian Wars. Presumably, they were either too expensive or too ineffective to be worthwhile to continue to build. If that wasn't the case.
Here is an bit from the wookieepedia on the Interdictor Class:
"The most notable Interdictor-class Cruiser was the Leviathan, a Galactic Republic warship that was said to be the only vessel in the class that came out of the shipyards in a space-worthy state."

Yeah so they were too difficult to build at the Republic's Ship yards.

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And even if it were based off the Interdictors, so what? That doesn't change the fact that the Sith crap is FOUR THOUSAND YEARS OUT OF DATE. Do you realize that if it were a modern army facing an army four thousand years out of date, they'd be lucky if they were tribals with bronze spears?
That argument doesn't really work considering our Civilisation as a whole hasn't been technologically advanced for that period of time if you look at the level of technology in the Galactic Republic and the Old Republic there is actually very little in way of progression if you look at the timeline as a whole of the Galactic Republic.
Here
"The Republic was born with the signing of the Galactic Constitution c. 25,000 BBY"
So FOUR THOUSAND YEARS (as you put it) is not a long time considering the age of the Republic as a whole.

If anything there was no need to pursue new technology since after the Battle of Ruusan 1002-1000 BBY the Republic decommissioned much of its military, retaining a small force only for security purposes which lead to the need for the Clone army.


"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:23 PM   #147
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Thanatos, that argument would hold water if we were talking about Warhammer 40K. We aren't.

New technology obviously was pursued, given the fact that new ship designs continued to roll out of shipyards, such as Rendili Stardrive's Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser. The idea that study of technology relating to the military halted abruptly after the Battle of Ruusan is completely ludicrous. That may have been the last Galactic War before the Clone Wars started, but regional conflicts continued.

Can you imagine? The Supreme Chancellor smiles at the end of the Battle of Ruusan, and as his first order of business now that peace has come, he outlaws all scientists? It doesn't work that way.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:43 PM   #148
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, since you phrased it so poorly, so I'll just have to guess.
yeah i suppose that was pretty poorly put...
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Α. There is no evidence that Pall was referring to the Star Forge, or that any Sith used it before Revan and Malak.
come on, a star map. in sadow's tomb! that looks like pretty strong evidence to me.
i meant to say that the secret of pall's was the star forge. but then, that can be taken as the true sith.
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Γ. Even if it did have anything to do with the ancient Sith, what does it matter? Who cares?
my post was in response to you saying
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The Star Forge was not drawing from the Sun for 26,000 years. Nobody was controlling it for 26,000 years; it was just sitting there.
i know that the star forge wasnt used for a while, but it would be less than 26,000 years. according to what we see in k1. (star map in sadow's tomb)


this is earth and its distance from the sun. [roughly 150 million (150,000,000,000) km from the sun.]
the death star's range is roughly one third that.( http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ds/#range)
at the scale of the pic, i cant figure if that is close enough (in relation to what we've seen in kotor) for the shield to work on the death star if it wanted to fire on the star forge. it looks as if it is...



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:45 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
That may have been the last Galactic War before the Clone Wars started, but regional conflicts continued.
Stark Hyperspace War, anyone?






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Old 10-06-2008, 05:01 PM   #150
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Precisely.

The disruption field is irrelevant. The Star Forge is in visual range before the Ebon Hawk is disabled and forced to crash-land on Lehon. More than close enough for a long-distance shot with the Death Star with the stated maximum range.

And even if we say that something like that CAN'T be done for some reason, all that would need to be done is send a few Divisions of Imperial Army and Stormtroopers to purge Lehon, blow a hole in the side of the Temple of the Ancients and bypass that pesky energy field, mow down everything inside through sheer volume of blaster fire, climb to the top, and shut down that stupid energy field.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:47 PM   #151
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hmm, the star forge was built 30,000 years before k1...
and it was used to manufacture ships etc for galactic conquest. when revan used it, they manufactured ships up to date with the tech those days. i wonder if revan's forces could steal some ISD schematics and quickly make the star forge spit a few out. but i doubt that would be likely. (imagine if they copied the death star! )
but now, my opinion: vader and imps vs revan and his sith: vader wins.
i believe in that leap in technology, but more than that i believe that the empire could quite possibly beat them in tactics. because, chances are, revan's empire would be in the galaxy's databanks as history. the imps could call up said info, and they would be able to see the tactics that revan used, and that knowledge would be a huge advantage, on top of the bigger, badder navy. corinthian and tka-001's arguments have me convinced at this point. if revan could shut the field down with jolee and juhani, empire could too it with a large bunch of stormies, and maybe a dark jedi thrown in. (from what ive seen of tfu, if secret apprentice was there, he might not even bother. he'd just rip the temple off its hill and throw it into the sea. kidding.)



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:56 PM   #152
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hmm, the star forge was built 30,000 years before k1...
and it was used to manufacture ships etc for galactic conquest. when revan used it, they manufactured ships up to date with the tech those days.
That's because they used templates with current technology. The Sith Interdictor was originally a Republic design.






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Old 10-06-2008, 06:24 PM   #153
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Thanatos, that argument would hold water if we were talking about Warhammer 40K. We aren't.

New technology obviously was pursued, given the fact that new ship designs continued to roll out of shipyards, such as Rendili Stardrive's Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser. The idea that study of technology relating to the military halted abruptly after the Battle of Ruusan is completely ludicrous. That may have been the last Galactic War before the Clone Wars started, but regional conflicts continued.

Can you imagine? The Supreme Chancellor smiles at the end of the Battle of Ruusan, and as his first order of business now that peace has come, he outlaws all scientists? It doesn't work that way.
But I'm talking about the technology advancements between KoToR and the Movies, yes the ships may have been redesigned but they are still made up of a similar level of Technology it's not like comparing a horse and cart to a fighter jet.

That was my whole point that the level of technology hasn't changed much in a brief (4000 years) (in comparison to the Republics timeline) amount of time.

Its not like KoToR was pre-hyperdrive then the whole point about outdated tech would be more valid:

Kolto tanks - yup (not Bacta my mistake)
Hyperdrive starships - yup
Lightsabers - yup
Blaster pistols - yup
Space fighters - yup
Space stations - yup
Astrometric droids - yup
Assasin droids - yup
Protocol droids - yup
Replacement body parts - (Malaks jaw and Gadon Theks ocular implants)


"Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan… and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone."

Last edited by Thanatos9t; 10-06-2008 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:11 PM   #154
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Bacta never shows up during Knights of the Old Republic. Only Kolto.

And yeah, they had similar stuff, but it all is mediocre - they had computers back in the 1960s, but I hope you enjoy using vacuum tubes.

Also, notice that all the prosthetics we see are crude things - Malak's jaw doesn't look real, and he's a bloody Sith Lord. The blasters are horrifically inaccurate, short-ranged, and don't do jack squat for damage, the astromechs are blocky things...

Yeah, it might not be quite as far behind as it logically should be, but we're talking a four thousand year difference.
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:00 PM   #155
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One would also do well to note that the firepower of starships is far lower in the KOTOR era than later on.


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Old 10-06-2008, 08:32 PM   #156
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Going back to the original topic here...I believe that Revan would beat Skywalker hands down. Revan had to fight countless mandalorians and jedi and he kept his rank of Dark Lord (Until Malak betrayed him) Skywalker...only fought padawans and knights, not to mention that many of the most powerful jedi masters and knights had been taken out by Order 66 before he got to the temple (Aayla secura, mace windu, the one chick whos name escapes me) Skywalker was basicly killing inexperienced knights and padawans and a few masters. Revan on the other hand fought Mandalore himself and still came out on top. So...revan wins hands down
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Old 10-06-2008, 08:34 PM   #157
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Mandalore isn't Force-Sensitive. Killing Mandalore isn't all that impressive.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:39 PM   #158
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Also, notice that all the prosthetics we see are crude things - Malak's jaw doesn't look real, and he's a bloody Sith Lord.
i read the star wars:empire: betrayal (<--cliche!) and in it, there was an imperial guy who looked as crazy as vader. tubes sticking out of him and all. didnt look real. AT ALL

thats 4000 years later.
his name's grand moff trachta. man, he looks so nazi. (ugh)
i dont think that tech leap was *too* big. IMO, sith vs imps: sith would go down fighting. not get 'mopped the floor with'.

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The blasters are horrifically inaccurate, short-ranged, and don't do jack squat for damage,
are you going by whats in the game? because in the game, you can stand square in front of a guy facing him, have your blaster rifle aimed right at him with a distance of, like, two feet between you and him, and you can have the entire salvo go completely off. like, 'hit-the-ground' off.

@ chevron 7 locke:
yeah revan had more experience than anakin. if that directly translates in the game, revan would be plain stronger. heres an example to illustrate my point:
imagine both revan and anakin in the games. we'll put anakin in ep3 at about lvl 28. revan has more than xp than anakin and thus, is at lvl 40. revan's level cap is 50. while anakin, being the chosen one, has a higher level cap of 65. but he never got there. so, though he could have exceeded revan in power, he didnt. but also remember in kotor and tsl, you face enemies that are at a waay higher level than you. (traya having 1000 vp=lvl 40?) and yet, you can still beat them. but its hard. put the anakin and revan npcs in an arena vs each other, and 7 times out out 10, revan would win. (there is still that chance of anakin winning)
on that scale, id put ol' sid in rotj at lvl 50.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-06-2008, 09:54 PM   #159
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So what? You're using gamelogic to explain why Revan is so awesome. Why shouldn't I use it to explain why Revan would lose?
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:17 PM   #160
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None of you should be using game mechanics to explain either, quite frankly. Blasters were inaccurate because they're low-level weapons using a dice roll system. There were lots of Jedi on the Star Forge because if there weren't your level 20 super awesome Jedi of doom would get bored.

Most likely neither would be that way if it wasn't a video game and was instead, for instance, a book or movie.

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