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Old 10-07-2008, 09:35 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Vader View Post
JIGOS, I want to ask you something (no offense). Do you like the story of Vader being recreated (maybe resurrected, IDK) in +150 ABY, because I'd love to see story like that. I have an idea, why don't we tell GL about this. He should give Vader a great shot ( you know, because of the Chosen One thing) like other badass characters. I think every SW fans will like it. Or maybe you or everyone have a different opinion and imagination about Vader's destiny, because personally I hate Vader's fate (you know why, just look at Ep6).
seriously, i really feel sorry for vader when i see ep3. but i havnt read the legacy comics so i dont know. but from what i see, the only way to bring him back would be cloning. which is extremely cliche, and generally what people see as a lame plot, AFAIK. but they might do something like, IDK, that cade sywalker (i think his name is) ive heard he can bring people back to life? maybe they could do something like anakins super power + cade's resurrect thing, and maybe throw in something about darth plagueis, and it just might work. but as i said, i havnt read legacy, and also havnt checked wookiepedia, because of spoilers and because i intend to read it sometime. so i dont have enough info to make an opinion.

[edit]
but wait, arent they doing some crossover thing between four sw comic series, including kotor and legacy?
maybe something like this could be done there? i dont know



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:52 PM   #202
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Hm... I prefer resurrection rather than crossover (I think it's like Marvel vs DC, I don't like that crossover, because it's based on popularity, and I think Revan will get a cool shot again because of his popularity). I wonder if GL make a story like that, I want to tell him about this. He should consider this, I think.

Oh yeah, I too feel sorry for Vader when I see Ep3, he beats Dooku to death but beaten by Obi-Wan because Obi-Wan has area advantage. But I feel sorry ultimately when I see Vader was beaten by his not-proper-training-son, it got even worse when he went LS, and became Force ghost. Foolish ending. NO OFFENSE TO Episode 6 & VADER FANS.


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Old 10-07-2008, 10:35 PM   #203
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i *really* feel sorry for him when he finds out that he killed padme. just look at that sorrow as he screams. (listen to him right before he yells) i mean, we all mess up our lives at some point, but when you have near god like powers, it's generally worse.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:39 PM   #204
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To lose such power wil be tragic, indeed ( with Kreia's voice ). Oh, about the topic, what's your opinion about my post (read page 2)? Do you agree with me? Because my brothers agree with my opinion.


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Old 10-07-2008, 10:59 PM   #205
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I really don't like the idea of Vader being resurrected. The Emperor coming back what? three times? is bad enough! The ending in ROTJ was excellent, I think. He had to come back to the light, even though most of us like Dark Side better anyway. It wouldn't have been a good story if he'd died as a Dark Sider, and the Force Ghost was a great touch, I thought.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:03 PM   #206
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That's not really the focus of the topic anyway.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:13 PM   #207
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Well, it's useless to debate about Revan vs Vader, because everybody will use Vader's weakness (old, more machine, whatever) to end the debate and crush Vader's fans. It's better to discuss about Vader's good shots.

No offense, Endorenna. But why it wouldn't have been a good story if he'd died as a Dark Sider, do you have a reason for this statement?


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Old 10-07-2008, 11:14 PM   #208
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*Rolls eyes* Brilliant. So because you can't win the debate, you go off topic?
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:37 PM   #209
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No, sir. It's because useless to debate when people ignore other facts and exploit Vader's weakness to win. It seems you want to taunt me with your post (no offense). I'm tired of people saying Vader's crap, trash, etc. There's time to debate, and there's time to end the debate.

Well, I'm a Vader fan, not a "very-fanboy", so I know when to say "other people dislike my hero, it's okay if they say bad things to my hero, I take everyone's opinion as good opinion, so I will gladly admit defeat in order to make everyone happy".


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Old 10-08-2008, 12:59 AM   #210
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corinthian i hope you remember that in episode six the executor was taken down by one single a-wing so tell me how could not revan do that sort of thing to also the rebel took down the empire's fleet even thought they were outnumbered
also i think if revan was going to war and knew somebody has found out the locationof the starforge he would probably build something to protect the temple


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Old 10-08-2008, 01:46 AM   #211
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Uh...no. The Executor was not taken out by a single A-Wing. It was taken out by a total fleet bombardment followed by a lucky strike on the bridge by an A-Wing during a maneuver. Crynyd did not destroy the Executor all by himself.

Also, a big part of the reason the Empire lost the Battle of Endor had to do with the morale loss of the Death Star II and the Executor both dying, the death of the Emperor and the end of his Battle Meditation, as well as a few other circumstances. Not exactly circumstances Revan is likely to be able to replicate.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:47 AM   #212
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Quote:
The A-Wing was not taken out by a single A-Wing
;o

Wait, which a-wing?

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Old 10-08-2008, 02:15 AM   #213
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You're a little late. Error is already fixed.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:36 AM   #214
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I'm not late. You're late. I quoted it before it was fixed.

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Old 10-08-2008, 02:43 AM   #215
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Not likely, given that after I fixed it no one had posted yet.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:03 AM   #216
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If you say so.

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Old 10-08-2008, 05:50 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Ultimate Vader View Post
JIGOS, I want to ask you something (no offense). Do you like the story of Vader being recreated (maybe resurrected, IDK) in +150 ABY, because I'd love to see story like that. I have an idea, why don't we tell GL about this. He should give Vader a great shot ( you know, because of the Chosen One thing) like other badass characters. I think every SW fans will like it. Or maybe you or everyone have a different opinion and imagination about Vader's destiny, because personally I hate Vader's fate (you know why, just look at Ep6).
IIRC, there's no absolute proof that Vader was the Sith'ari.



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Old 10-08-2008, 06:02 AM   #218
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*Rolls eyes* Brilliant. So because you can't win the debate, you go off topic?
Don't taunt people. He started this thread, saw the results were all the same and decided to (in a nice and polite way) change the topic a bit to find out why people made this choice (to vote for Revan instead of Vader).
Taunting him back into a discussion he already accepted to be lost is, imo, BAD winner behaviour.

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Uh...no. The Executor was not taken out by a single A-Wing. It was taken out by a total fleet bombardment followed by a lucky strike on the bridge by an A-Wing during a maneuver. Crynyd did not destroy the Executor all by himself.

Also, a big part of the reason the Empire lost the Battle of Endor had to do with the morale loss of the Death Star II and the Executor both dying, the death of the Emperor and the end of his Battle Meditation, as well as a few other circumstances. Not exactly circumstances Revan is likely to be able to replicate.
You can't prove that. In the movie, we see an A-wing fly through the bridge. We don't see that bombardment. So G-canon=1 A-wing did this. And G-canon is highest.

See how easy it is to bash this way? Please accept you have won, or people will come along and take your own words against you. Mods can do this very well, along with a ban or nice 'sparkly colour edits' under your post.

Further @ Topic:
Imo, resurrection sounds a bit lame to me. He's a thing of the past. If you see the general response to Flow-walking ( a novel power) you'd realise time-travel and Star Wars don't go well together. not even with an Delorean and Michael J. Fox.
So, I hope they will continue the infinities label. Infinites is basically a comic-series in which important events of the movies are spun around. Luke dying on Hoth, Luke missing the shot on the Death Star, Yoda dying before he can finish Luke's training.
Why not an infinities comics in which Vader doesn't jump at Obi-Wan? Or does, but Obi-Wan only cuts of 1 leg or puts his saber through Vader? When Vader can continue as a human beiing?
Or even more simple: Vader Unleashed game?

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Old 10-08-2008, 06:25 AM   #219
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You can't prove that. In the movie, we see an A-wing fly through the bridge. We don't see that bombardment. So G-canon=1 A-wing did this. And G-canon is highest.
Ackbar: "Concentrate all fire on the Super Star Destroyer"

We then see the shield dome being destroyed.

And that's when Piett is told the shields have been lost, and then Crynd crashes into the Executor.

So, both interpretations could be seen to be correct. Although i'm leaning more towards that just being the end result of the bombardment.






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Old 10-08-2008, 07:56 AM   #220
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For Ztalker:

Simple. Do they have the budget to do it? Yes. Do they have the will to do it? No. It's simply because many characters (Yoda, Sidious, Revan, Bane) have more fans than Vader. And maybe GL doesn't have any idea how to make a good story about "Human Vader", because probably in his mind, he imagine Vader as "evil Superman". He doesn't think about other idea, such as resurrection (I admit that's not good at all), clone (Interesting choice for me), etc. Non-canon will be great, but I think people will ignored it, because usually people use canon characters. I say this not because I want other characters look crap, I just want a good shot for Vader, because I think RODV isn't much of a good shot (no offense for RODV lover).

I want to hear other's opinion about this. Please, don't get mad at me if you don't see things like I do.

For Darth Betrayal:

It's okay if you say there's no proof Vader was the Sith'ari. I take that as a good opinion, anyway. I just want a really good shot for Vader. I will even accept non-canon story, if that's the only way to get a good shot for Vader. I never said Vader was the Sith'ari. I said he's the chosen one and should get a good story (maybe non-canon).


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Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 10-08-2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason: combined double post
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:10 AM   #221
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As far as the whole 'Sith'ari' thing, that came along with K1. Before that, no one had ever heard of a 'Sith'ari'. 'Chosen One' was enough. Personally, I thought Vader had a pretty good 'shot' when he threw the Emperor into the reactor shaft, saved his son's life, saved the galaxy, saved the Rebellion, turned away from the Dark Side, and sacrificed himself doing so.

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I said he's the chosen one and should get a good story (maybe non-canon).
Darth Vader has a good story; in fact, he has six movies worth of good story! He is the main focus of both trilogies. The first one (the prequels) is about his fall. This sets up the main theme of Star Wars; redemption. The second trilogy (the originals) fulfills the theme by following Vader's journey back to the Light. If Vader dies in darkness, then the theme of Star Wars is destroyed. There's no point if it's just, "Oh, the hero finds out that he and the heroine are the son of the villain, and the hero has to kill him." Come on. That would be just dumb, IMO. I probably wouldn't even watch it if that had happened.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:22 AM   #222
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Besides, if you assume that the Prophecy was misinterpreted, then Vader ALSO brings balance to the force by reducing it to 2 Jedi, 2 Sith, cowardly hiding tools like Empataojayos (Sp?) Brand notwithstanding.

Now, Ztalker, I COULD go on a tangent in every way your wrong. But I won't, because Astor Kaine just proved me right for me. *Thumbs up* Also, G-Canon is only 'Highest' when only one perspective can be correct. Just invoking that 'G-Canon says this' proves nothing, unless the other, lesser canon's perspective and G-Canon's perspective are incompatible.

Now, if you'd like anything else? More tea?
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:53 AM   #223
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look all i wanted to get to is that the imperial navy are not the best since the rebels beat it
this ISD are not the best ever well anyway much of the imperial stuff is based on the clone stuff except for the ugly TIE's anyway i know much of the stormies are clones so don't get angry on me here but in a battle in clones against stormies i think the clones would win


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Old 10-08-2008, 10:12 AM   #224
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Besides, if you assume that the Prophecy was misinterpreted, then Vader ALSO brings balance to the force by reducing it to 2 Jedi, 2 Sith, cowardly hiding tools like Empataojayos (Sp?) Brand notwithstanding.

Now, Ztalker, I COULD go on a tangent in every way your wrong. But I won't, because Astor Kaine just proved me right for me. *Thumbs up* Also, G-Canon is only 'Highest' when only one perspective can be correct. Just invoking that 'G-Canon says this' proves nothing, unless the other, lesser canon's perspective and G-Canon's perspective are incompatible.

Now, if you'd like anything else? More tea?
Just showing you how easy it is to use the wrong stuff for your arguments. Plus, not everyone on this forums is your enemy. Of course I know the Executor was bombed to sh*t, the death of Palpatine ruined everything (mentioned in Thrawn trilogy). Just accept that not everyone knows as much about Star Wars

Tea would be nice though, although coffee's more my thing.

@ topic:
You are right about the prophecy though. If you take it literally. If you take in account that the Jedi felt 'unbalanced' because possibly Palpatine's shroud of darkness destroying him might have worked too.
But still, it's not the way I hoped he would do it. After TESB, where he showed off his Uber saber skills at Luke, I thought that
a) The second duel with Luke should have been longer and more intense, more TESB-like.
b) He should best Palpatine...in a...cooler way. Not throwing him down, but stepping into the lightning and stabbing him with his last power or something alike. This was...just...mwah.

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Old 10-08-2008, 10:16 AM   #225
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I always thought that the Emperor falling down the shaft and exploding was very dramatic.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:26 AM   #226
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For Endorenna:

Hm... A good statement. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with you about it. The story makes Vader's life too short, seriously, for someone who has the potential to become most powerful Jedi/Sith. And I think he doesn't have a great shot, like Windu or Yoda. Here's what I remember about him:

1. Smart boy (create c-3po, that "flying ride", robot maker)
2. Undisciplined Padawan (although powerful, he's arrogant)
3. Jedi Knight (for a few days, more arrogant, kill dooku, become council member although he's not a master)
4. Newly christened Vader (kill jedi in the temple, kill gunray & friends, beaten by obi)
5. Cyborg Vader (second to emperor)

I think there's only three that can be said as good shot. Kill dooku, become council member, and being second to emperor. I think GL should remake Vader's armor (make him beefy and tall rather than tall only) , give him great shot, create good non-canon story (like Marvel Ultimate), put all of them together in a nice pattern with other characters (don't make them weak, because I don't like it when a character is weakened by the creator), and I guarantee it will be sold out. I think, if Star Wars should have a good ending, it's alternative should have tragic ending. Will be very cool and he can make money with it . That's why I create my signature like this.


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Old 10-08-2008, 10:48 AM   #227
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Now, Ztalker, I COULD go on a tangent in every way your wrong. But I won't, because Astor Kaine just proved me right for me. *Thumbs up*
Your welcome, although i'm sure you didn't need any help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
More tea?
That sounds capital.

@Ultimate Vader: Where are you getting all this Vader hate from?

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Originally Posted by Corinthian
Empataojayos (Sp?) Brand
Worst. Name. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Saber-Scorpion
look all i wanted to get to is that the imperial navy are not the best since the rebels beat it
It took them 19 years to properly beat them, though.

Quote:
this ISD are not the best ever well anyway much of the imperial stuff is based on the clone stuff[ except for the ugly TIE's
Certainly more than a match for a Sith cruiser.

Quote:
anyway i know much of the stormies are clones so don't get angry on me here but in a battle in clones against stormies i think the clones would win
Most stormtroopers were human. Only a third of Stormtroopers were Fett clones because of the uprising on Kamino. All others were cloned from other sources, or conventional recruits.

Also, we're not debating whether clones would win over stormtroopers.






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Old 10-08-2008, 10:58 AM   #228
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Pardon me, but can I ask you something?
What do you mean by writing like this : "@Ultimate Vader: Where are you getting all this Vader hate from?", because I don't understand .


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Old 10-08-2008, 11:06 AM   #229
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It's just you really seem to dislike Vader, is all.

I don't see anything wrong with his portrayal in the original movies. His portrayal in the prequels ruined what was a mysterious figure.






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Old 10-08-2008, 11:14 AM   #230
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It's just you really seem to dislike Vader, is all.

I don't see anything wrong with his portrayal in the original movies. His portrayal in the prequels ruined what was a mysterious figure.
For some of the younger folks, it might be the other way around. Remember, they see epic-action spectacular Jedi Knight Anakin grow stronger. They see him turn Sith in Episode 3. Then they try to watch the OT and...be disapointed.

For 'us' (I'm only 19, but DID watch the OT before the PT) oldies it's the way you describe. I really liked the way Vader was portrayed, with TESB as my personal favourite. I didn't like the way Anakin was portrayed. I'd take any other reason for turning DS over "My wife will possible, perhaps, like in my dreams' die! Let's go DS!"

But anyway, it will always stay this way. Fans focussing on visual proof for Vader's prowess will want a remake of the OT, we want a remake of the PT.

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Old 10-08-2008, 11:26 AM   #231
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Oh, about that. I don't dislike Vader, if you want to know. I am his fan. Look at my avatar and my name and my signature. I can't have all of that thing for my profile if I dislike him. I love how he speak, walk, fight, but sometimes I feel sad if someone uses Vader weakness (old, out-of-date, armor sucks, whatever) for debate. Those are people who don't understand other's feelings. As a fan, I think he should be given a great shot. But he never. Instead, GL make other characters look cool and badass. I think I the easiest example here is Revan. No offense to Revan's fans, but I see in their posts that many of Revan's fans dislike Vader. And half of Revan's fans who dislike Vader use Vader weakness to destroy Vader's fans. Have you ever noticed that usually Vader loses if there's many "new characters"'s fans who usually dislike Vader in a debate. I really don't know why people dislike Vader so much. I love Vader, I just hate how GL made his fate.


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Old 10-08-2008, 11:33 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Ultimate Vader View Post
Oh, about that. I don't dislike Vader, if you want to know. I am his fan. Look at my avatar and my name and my signature. I can't have all of that thing for my profile if I dislike him.
It's just you seem to express disagreement with how he is portrayed, is all.

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I love how he speak, walk, fight, but sometimes I feel sad if someone uses Vader weakness (old, out-of-date, armor sucks, whatever) for debate.
No-one's done that that I can see.

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As a fan, I think he should be given a great shot. But he never.
He is given a great shot - he's shown in the films to be the effective leader of the Empire, and the comics, books and games all expand on that.

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Instead, GL make other characters look cool and badass. I think I the easiest example here is Revan.
Lucas didn't make Revan.

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No offense to Revan's fans, but I see in their posts that many of Revan's fans dislike Vader.
That's because their jealous that their contrived, half-baked Mary Sue of a hero can never hope to match Vader.






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Old 10-08-2008, 11:36 AM   #233
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Wow, you guessed my age just from your post. I'm impressed. I am young, so I got disappointed when I match PT and OT together. Perhaps GL will realize this and make two non-canon stories for us. One for PT remake, other for OT remake. By the way, your post is well said, Ztalker.

For Astor-Kaine:
1. When I was a child I love OT, seriously. But as time passes and technology come to our life, I changed and see that OT is too lame compared to PT. It's pretty difficult for me to describe it, because not many people have the same view like me.
2.Effective leader, perhaps. Any other else? I'm not satisfied with effective leader.
3.About Revan, you're right, I admit my mistake here. I wanted to say that Revan is created in a way which many hardcore SW fans like it.

No offense to you, Astor Kaine. I just want to discuss about Vader

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Last edited by ChAiNz.2da; 10-08-2008 at 11:56 AM. Reason: combined double post
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:06 PM   #234
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Thanks for the compliment, UV.

When I first saw Star Wars, The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones were already out. My parents finally decided that the time had come to introduce me and my siblings to Star Wars, so they went and got the only ones they had seen out of storage: The Original Trilogy. I missed the first few 'showings', so I ended up seeing them backwards! (ROTJ, then TESB, then ANH) I loved the OT a whole lot, even though the special effects were out of date and Obi-wan and Vader's fight was lame. (Actually, I always thought that Vader looked a thousand times cooler than anyone else in the trilogy. Luke looked dumb, Obi-wan and Yoda looked old, Han looked cool and Leia looked cool, but they just couldn't compete with the heavy-breathin' Goth dude! )

So, finally, a year after that, my older sibling got the box DVD Special Edition Original Trilogy, and it happened to have a bonus disk with a documentary on how they were currently making the third movie of the prequels. It looked interesting, so we got TPM and AOTC. We were blown away by the graphics, lightsaber fights, and deep emotion of them, and we loved them immediately. When ROTS came out, we saw it in the theater several times before the DVD came out. Now that I've seen both trilogies, I tend to watch the PT more, just because they figured out how to do lightsaber fights and make them look even better than the ones in ESB and ROTJ. However, I think that both trilogies are on the same level of greatness; the OT for giving us the story and changing the history of movies forever, and the PT for giving us the other half of the story and great saber fights. When I'm getting someone to finally see Star Wars, I tell them to watch the OT first, then the PT, just so they Luke/Leia/Vader relationship won't be ruined (unless they already know). I think that that's how the movies are meant to be watched; in the order they came out.

Sorry, I'm getting a little off-topic here. Back to Vader! After I saw the PT, I thought Vader just became that much cooler than he was before. Once I saw why he'd turned to the Dark Side in the first place, why he didn't know that he had two kids, why he hated Obi-wan so much, etc., him turning back to the light as he died made a lot more sense (and I thought it had made sense before )


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

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T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:46 PM   #235
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you got my Astor Kaine look i did'nt imply that they could not beat the sith starships i just meant that people seem to overpower them so much
and even if it took the rebels 19 years to defeat the empire they still defeated them also i got new info the shield on the executor was taken donw by a strike team of about 2-4 a wing or x wing maybe


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Old 10-08-2008, 02:48 PM   #236
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i got new info the shield on the executor was taken donw by a strike team of about 2-4 a wing or x wing maybe
And do you have a source for that?






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Old 10-08-2008, 03:05 PM   #237
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^
I'm pretty sure you can see it in ROTJ. I seem to remember something like that.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:06 PM   #238
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^
I'm pretty sure you can see it in ROTJ. I seem to remember something like that.
2 A-Wings, maybe, but nothing about a Strike team. But the A-Wings managed to destroy the sensor dome (which also powered the Bridge shields) after Ackbar's fleet took the main shields down.






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Old 10-08-2008, 03:19 PM   #239
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well wookiepedia is my soruce everything everythinh there is almost always accurate
well i don't care anyway aren't we getting of topic it seem to changed to a topic where some of us looking for weakness in the empire while other are defending it


My name is to honor the real Saber-Scorpion a great man so here is a link http://www.saber-scorpion.com/

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Old 10-08-2008, 03:27 PM   #240
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well wookiepedia is my soruce everything everythinh there is almost always accurate
well i don't care anyway aren't we getting of topic it seem to changed to a topic where some of us looking for weakness in the empire while other are defending it
The 'Strike Team' referred to in that article is the one that blew up the Shield Generator, yes.

But not the Executor's.

The 'Strike Team' referred in that article is the one that destroyed the Death Star's shields.






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