View Poll Results: Is TOR as satisfying to people as KOTOR III?
It's an ending and I'm glad that they will continue from TSL. 26 19.26%
Being 300 years too late killed the story. 88 65.19%
Couldn't care less. The gameplay is what matters. 30 22.22%
There's absolutely no way to know until TOR actually comes out. 2 1.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: Is TOR as good as KOTOR III?
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:53 AM   #81
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Yeah, I know how it is to have favourite characters, only to have their story end suddenly. We always want to know what they're up to, how they're doing, like they were old friends.

In the end though, history usually only remembers the main protagonists, not the supporting characters.
that's what I'm saying though. Revan, the Exile: they ARE the main protagonists, and they've been swept off the board almost as if they were never there. I can see not talking much about, say, Mission and Zaalbar. But what about Admiral Carth Onasi? Canderous Ordo, now Mandalore the Preserver? What about Atton Rand and the other turned-Jedi companions of the Exile who had to rebuild the Jedi Order basically from scratch? Where's Bastila, one of few, if any, original Jedi who survived besides the Exile and Revan?

All I'm saying is that key historical events and figures seem to have been utterly forgotten. Hell, there's not even any mention of what Revan or the Exile even did in the Unknown Regions.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:45 AM   #82
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Ya know the thing is, Revan. One man going against the True Sith in the unknown regions. Sounds like he was asking for death. The exile heading off after Revan, she should have expected the same fate. Two against an army of True Sith, worlds of True Sith. How would you expect them to survive? Why would you expect them to survive?

Really you can thank Avelone for sealing Revan's fate. Of course we might actually get more of their fate in the MMO. Not all great heroes have the greatest of fates. Need I remind people of the swirling destiny story? That Revan also had swirling destiny.... Perhaps he's clogging an injector right now. Well... not now, but perhaps his destiny was to simply delay the inevitable. Dunno, I intend to seek out his story in the MMO. Some took part in the greatest deeds of their lives at the time we played the games. I mean Bastila's greatest accomplishment might have been aiding in the destruction of the Star Forge. Revan and the Exile may have more history, but that history will be what we discover after 300 years.

Like Patton, while we may have his biography, most people only remember him for what he did in WWII. Like our founding fathers(of the US) many of them were imprisoned or executed(I think 9 imprisoned 5 executed, or something like that). Nobody cares about what happens to the heroes after they are done being heroes. Well not about the mundane tasks they did after their great accomplishment.
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:13 AM   #83
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TOR is the killing blow to the Kotor franchise, turning any game in an mmo is the fastest way to ruin it.


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Old 10-23-2008, 09:38 AM   #84
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TOR is the killing blow to the Kotor franchise, turning any game in an mmo is the fastest way to ruin it.
A few days ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed. But BioWare have been clear that this will not be a standard MMO. If they manage to implement half of what they promise, it may be worthwhile.

I think in the long run it will depend on the attitudes of those playing. If people set out to ruin it for us, the MMO will, likely, be awful. If everyone plays it properly, who knows?


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Old 10-23-2008, 11:19 AM   #85
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Ya know the thing is, Revan. One man going against the True Sith in the unknown regions. Sounds like he was asking for death. The exile heading off after Revan, she should have expected the same fate. Two against an army of True Sith, worlds of True Sith. How would you expect them to survive? Why would you expect them to survive?

Really you can thank Avelone for sealing Revan's fate. Of course we might actually get more of their fate in the MMO. Not all great heroes have the greatest of fates. Need I remind people of the swirling destiny story? That Revan also had swirling destiny.... Perhaps he's clogging an injector right now. Well... not now, but perhaps his destiny was to simply delay the inevitable. Dunno, I intend to seek out his story in the MMO. Some took part in the greatest deeds of their lives at the time we played the games. I mean Bastila's greatest accomplishment might have been aiding in the destruction of the Star Forge. Revan and the Exile may have more history, but that history will be what we discover after 300 years.

Like Patton, while we may have his biography, most people only remember him for what he did in WWII. Like our founding fathers(of the US) many of them were imprisoned or executed(I think 9 imprisoned 5 executed, or something like that). Nobody cares about what happens to the heroes after they are done being heroes. Well not about the mundane tasks they did after their great accomplishment.
That was the whole reason the climax after TSL was so intense. We were wondering how these two were going up against impossible odds and expect to win. By giving the Republic 300 years to prepare for the True Sith, it turns impossible odds into a humiliating defeat for the Republic, Revan, and the Exile.

By skipping all the story that took place right after KOTOR, then the resolution to the climax just never happened. They killed the story by not resolving the events after TSL with a brilliant resolution. It is THAT which is why fans want KOTOR III, not just a clean slate that skips it all.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:40 PM   #86
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In all honesty, no, it's not a good name. But the idea behind the game itself is satisfactory to me, at least.

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Old 10-23-2008, 05:56 PM   #87
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It's still in the old republic, so why shouldn't it be considered the old republic?

Anyway, I'd have loved K3 to come out, but this just let's writers like me broaden the story plot. so it's not all bad for me. Personally, I think leaving a cliffhanger like it did was probably the most successful cliffhanger I've ever seen. Some are terribly done, some give too much away. It was nice and ambiguous and mysterious.

TOR won't have the same atmosphere as KOTOR, but it's still based in the old republic era, and I loved the themes and such in that era. If I can afford it, I'm definitely buying... I can live with no third KOTOR.


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Old 10-23-2008, 06:45 PM   #88
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TOR won't have the same atmosphere as KOTOR, but it's still based in the old republic era, and I loved the themes and such in that era. If I can afford it, I'm definitely buying... I can live with no third KOTOR.
I don't know about that. Some of those screenshots look very KotORish. BioWare still needs to work on the game; thus, the game elements may move closer to the original.

Look at the clothes closely. They look similar to those in KotOR 1; however, the fashion trend was slightly modernized.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:38 PM   #89
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That was the whole reason the climax after TSL was so intense. We were wondering how these two were going up against impossible odds and expect to win. By giving the Republic 300 years to prepare for the True Sith, it turns impossible odds into a humiliating defeat for the Republic, Revan, and the Exile.

By skipping all the story that took place right after KOTOR, then the resolution to the climax just never happened. They killed the story by not resolving the events after TSL with a brilliant resolution. It is THAT which is why fans want KOTOR III, not just a clean slate that skips it all.

TSL and Obsidian killed the story, imo.

And who actually states that Revan went out there to fight the sith and not join them? Hmm? And who says the Exile followed Revan to join him and not to kill him? Hmm. *nods*


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Old 10-23-2008, 08:42 PM   #90
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TSL and Obsidian killed the story, imo.

TSL? Nah...

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Old 10-23-2008, 10:02 PM   #91
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And before anyone demands proof of something you already know... don't.
I don't know that LA indicated they were making K3, thus the request for a link. My understanding was that you claimed previously that LA essentially misled people by not developing K3. I asked for a link showing that LA said they were going to make K3 in the first place. You didn't provide one. But let's move on.

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If you object to what I say, then why don't you try to convince me that TOR is better 300 years after KOTOR than 5-20 after TSL. Why would KOTOR fans be glad to know that the ending goes badly?
I doubt I can convince you, but for anyone else who is interested, here is my take. Get a coffee.

Having the game take place 300 years after KOTOR is a good idea and necessary from both a story and gameplay perspective. On the gameplay side, it allows the freedom for all players to be either a Jedi or a Sith (since let's face it that is what everyone is going to be). The problem with the time frame immediately after TSL is that there is only one Jedi left and a handful of newbies, which doesn't really leave room for 10,000+ Jedi to be running around every corner. Similarly the Sith have declined and the Triumvirate are destroyed, which also doesn't leave much room for the numbers of Sith we are going to be seeing on the servers.

That timeframe is, well, limiting. Moving the time frame ahead opens up all the options to players. Most players aren't going to know each other, and with the game <25 years after TSL that wouldn't really make any sense since all Jedi will have to be trained by the Exile and Co, and they simply couldn't have trained that many Jedi in that amount of time. Moving the game 300 years ahead allows for the option of multiple enclaves (player cities?) with many masters and apprentices. Then you can have the option of cool subgroups like the Covenant from the comics, etc. Players want gameplay options, and the timeframe immediately after TSL is limiting, if you are going to stay true to the story.

300 years later makes even more sense for the story, IMO. Everyone's personal KOTOR story is either slightly or greatly different from everyone elses'. Are Revan and the Exile male or female? Good or evil? Those simple questions have great consequences for what happens in the game. Carth and Mission may already be dead. Hell, I didn't train any of the Exile's followers to be Jedi. Other players trained all of them. For a game that will at its core a shared experience, how can we have a consistent story that lines up with each player's version? You can't. The only real option in that case is to just pick canon and move from there. But then you are deviating from 80% of what players have experienced previously. So really, what's the point of trying to complete a story that most people didn't have in the first place? Plus, new players that have never played aren't going to care anyway.

Another thing I've always argued around here is that it isn't Revan and the Exile the man (or woman) that is important, but their actions and the results of them. Those results are relevant far into the future (say, 300 years? It's a very short timespan in the SW universe, and even well within the lifespans of some species), and not just at the time. The universe players will play in will be that way in part because of what those characters did 300 years previously, but it also allows enough time to have passed so that the details that are dependent on the player can be glossed over. So you can have a game that relates well with the previous games without stepping in its toes.

Not knowing every detail about Revan and Co. in no way implies that they failed. Perhaps they were able to stop the imminent threat and prevent the its assault on the Republic at a time when it was at is most vulnerable. Yes, the Sith may have returned at a later time, but that doesn't diminish the possible victory previously. That would be like saying WW1 was a failure because WW2 happened. The point is that having a story 300 years after the games neither lessens or limits Revan's accomplishments, whatever they might be and for whatever reasons.

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(Before you ask for more proof, then you provide real proof that the majority of KOTOR fans are glad to know Revan and the Exile died and failed)
For starters, how do we know they failed? Secondly, majority or minority doesn't really matter. There have been several polls around here over the years asking if people want to play as Revan, the Exile or some one new, and whether they should continue the story or have something new. The opinions varied greatly. All I'm saying is that many people want many different things from the series.

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It's only her/his opinion according to your opinion, Pr.
Of course!

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Then this is not KOTOR at all. This means that you've proven my point. Anyone who wanted KOTOR III will find that Lucasarts has given them something completely different.

They haven't fixed the old problem before they started the new one.
But we don't know that. We don't have the story yet! All may be answered yet. We'll have to wait and see.

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No, you are an individual who stands alone on this. That's a bit arrogant for you to claim your opinion is worth so much.
No he isn't. I feel the same way. And aren't you a pot calling a kettle black here?

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It is THAT which is why fans want KOTOR III, not just a clean slate that skips it all.
Some fans. Not all fans. If K3 was a SRPG, I'd want a clean slate with a new character then too.

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Old 10-23-2008, 10:07 PM   #92
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How long did it take you to write that?


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Some fans. Not all fans. If K3 was a SRPG, I'd want a clean slate with a new character then too.
As would I.

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Old 10-23-2008, 10:29 PM   #93
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I really like the idea of having K3 be an MMO(of course I cried for 1/2 days because their
would have been great potential in in seeing what Revan and the exile did.) But now thta i've read the story info available, the videos, the interviews, and the IGN exclusive's I've really come to accept this as the game I've been waiting for since I threw Kreia into the Core of Malachor V.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:51 PM   #94
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TSL and Obsidian killed the story, imo.

And who actually states that Revan went out there to fight the sith and not join them? Hmm? And who says the Exile followed Revan to join him and not to kill him? Hmm. *nods*
That would be incorrect. TSL established the climax and Obsidian wasn't given the TOR project, it was Bioware. So in reality, Bioware killed the Sith Lords' climax with their abomination.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:01 PM   #95
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I would have liked OE to have been given K3, but 9it does make since to have it come full circle and let the guys who made the first game make the third final one.
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:04 PM   #96
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That would be incorrect. TSL established the climax and Obsidian wasn't given the TOR project, it was Bioware. So in reality, Bioware killed the Sith Lords' climax with their abomination.
Did someone give you an advance copy of the TOR script? I'd love to know how you know without a doubt that the Sith Lords' climax has been killed by Bioware.


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Old 10-23-2008, 11:10 PM   #97
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Having the game take place 300 years after KOTOR is a good idea and necessary from both a story and gameplay perspective. On the gameplay side, it allows the freedom for all players to be either a Jedi or a Sith (since let's face it that is what everyone is going to be). The problem with the time frame immediately after TSL is that there is only one Jedi left and a handful of newbies, which doesn't really leave room for 10,000+ Jedi to be running around every corner. Similarly the Sith have declined and the Triumvirate are destroyed, which also doesn't leave much room for the numbers of Sith we are going to be seeing on the servers.

That timeframe is, well, limiting. Moving the time frame ahead opens up all the options to players. Most players aren't going to know each other, and with the game <25 years after TSL that wouldn't really make any sense since all Jedi will have to be trained by the Exile and Co, and they simply couldn't have trained that many Jedi in that amount of time. Moving the game 300 years ahead allows for the option of multiple enclaves (player cities?) with many masters and apprentices. Then you can have the option of cool subgroups like the Covenant from the comics, etc. Players want gameplay options, and the timeframe immediately after TSL is limiting, if you are going to stay true to the story.

-------

Not knowing every detail about Revan and Co. in no way implies that they failed. Perhaps they were able to stop the imminent threat and prevent the its assault on the Republic at a time when it was at is most vulnerable. Yes, the Sith may have returned at a later time, but that doesn't diminish the possible victory previously. That would be like saying WW1 was a failure because WW2 happened. The point is that having a story 300 years after the games neither lessens or limits Revan's accomplishments, whatever they might be and for whatever reasons.
How exactly does that make the story more dramatic if the Jedi and the Republic are allowed to have the time to rebuild? Do you know why the Battle of Thermopolea is "300 against 1,000,000" instead of history's version of "4500 against 100,000-200,000"? Which would you think is more dramatic? Most people use the 300 Spartans.

TOR kills the climax by evening the odds and making it much less dramatic by having 10,000 Jedi and a healed Republic doing the impossible than for a few Jedi and a crippled Republic struggling to survive. 300 years kills all the drama and suspense of TSL.

WWII was the result of WWI and could have been prevented if the "peace w/out victory" had been followed completely, or Germany had been obliterated at the end of WWI. Because WWI wasn't properly concluded, it caused another war that was even worse than the first.

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I don't know that LA indicated they were making K3, thus the request for a link. My understanding was that you claimed previously that LA essentially misled people by not developing K3.
"The wait is over." I guess that it wasn't explicit, but a reasonable deduction could be made that it was directed at fans waiting for KOTOR III. I know that you had to be aware of that because you're a smart guy and could figure that out.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:25 AM   #98
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"The wait is over." I guess that it wasn't explicit, but a reasonable deduction could be made that it was directed at fans waiting for KOTOR III. I know that you had to be aware of that because you're a smart guy and could figure that out.
Lets see, before the announcement "The Wait is Over" was released, we had enough slips that the MMO project was the project that LA and Bioware were working on. The announcement was the end of the waiting for the worst kept secret in the gaming industry to be announced Nowhere did LA or Bioware state explicitly that they were working on KotOR III. Bioware and LA had however stated on numerous occasions that they were not working on KotOR 3. That implies that they were not misleading you, or the fan base. Now if they had somewhere stated that they weer working on KotOR 3 you might have some semblance of a leg to stand on. If anything you misled yourself.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:27 AM   #99
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I know that you had to be aware of that because you're a smart guy and could figure that out.
I feel I have been very patient with you, Darth_Yuthura.

- I gave you a kind reminder to calm down.
- I gave you a warning to cease hostile actions towards others.
- I Infracted you once already for Offensive behavior.

You have outright ignored and pushed aside not only my warning and infraction, but the opinions of other members of this forum in favor of your own.

Please take a week to cool off. I look forward to posting with you again once you have collected your thoughts.

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Old 10-24-2008, 11:20 AM   #100
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How exactly does that make the story more dramatic if the Jedi and the Republic are allowed to have the time to rebuild? Do you know why the Battle of Thermopolea is "300 against 1,000,000" instead of history's version of "4500 against 100,000-200,000"? Which would you think is more dramatic? Most people use the 300 Spartans.
Would you be surprised to learn that not once did I consider the numbers to be in any way relevant in how I viewed the ending of TSL? But then again, I think the importance of Revan to TSL is often overstated and it is more a journey of self discovery for the Exile, and much of the info about Revan can be bypassed if the player so chooses. Again, it is the actions and consequences of Revan that matter, not so much the man.

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TOR kills the climax by evening the odds and making it much less dramatic by having 10,000 Jedi and a healed Republic doing the impossible than for a few Jedi and a crippled Republic struggling to survive. 300 years kills all the drama and suspense of TSL.
I think that is a huge overstatement. Are you saying that the drama and suspense as a result of the culmination of journey of the Exile and the confrontation with the Sith Lords are all of a sudden destroyed because some unknown arbitrary numbers were changed?

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"The wait is over." I guess that it wasn't explicit, but a reasonable deduction could be made that it was directed at fans waiting for KOTOR III. I know that you had to be aware of that because you're a smart guy and could figure that out.
The statement was true regardless how how you look at it, really. If you were waiting for confirmation of the KOTOR MMO rumors, you got that. If you were waiting for the announcement regarding the future of the KOTOR franchise, you got that.

Saying you were misled because you didn't get specifically what you wanted is not their fault. I'd like a SRPG for K3 too, but in no way did LA ever say they were ever going to do that, where as everything that was leaked for the past year pointed to an MMO. Acting surprised when it actually happens just seems a bit silly.

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Old 10-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #101
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SW01 posted very well i think imho

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A few days ago, I would have whole-heartedly agreed. But BioWare have been clear that this will not be a standard MMO. If they manage to implement half of what they promise, it may be worthwhile.

I think in the long run it will depend on the attitudes of those playing. If people set out to ruin it for us, the MMO will, likely, be awful. If everyone plays it properly, who knows?
Let's be cool and wait and see, there is a HUGE effort going on here by Biowar, they have committed incredible resources and all their integrity and mojo to make this an awesome sequel and continuation of a much beloved segment of the SW universe....so lets give them a chance to do their thing and share with us as they are, they are being very open and candid and clearly both BioW and LucasA are really working hard to make a masterpiece. It takes time. Let's see what they do.


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Old 10-24-2008, 05:15 PM   #102
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I don't think TOR will be nearly as good as the original KoTOR games were and more importantly, I don't think it's a conclusion to the series as this game will probably have very little to do, story-wise, with the KoTOR games. We'll just wait and see, I guess.

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Old 10-24-2008, 10:45 PM   #103
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I don't think TOR will be nearly as good as the original KoTOR games were and more importantly, I don't think it's a conclusion to the series as this game will probably have very little to do, story-wise, with the KoTOR games. We'll just wait and see, I guess.
My thoughts exactly. Under normal circumstances I would be ecstatic that this game was being made. But I wish they had not said "The wait is over" The wait for what? A totally random game?

Surely they couldn't mean the KOTOR series because then it would have been called Knights of the Old Republic III. Apparently this is their way of giving us a K3. I am glad they made this, but why not just make a continuation to the KOTOR series? Obviously that is what they were aiming for...but 300 years? Not much of a continuation...the KOTOR centered around Revan, Exile, and had tradmark charaters like T3 and HK. This game looks like it will have none of that. It does not have the stuff that defines KOTOR and makes it stand out from other SW stuff.

IMO, I don't think they can fairly call it a continuation, unless they finish the ending of K2. What about Revan etc? I don't think it will be nearly as good either. I'll have to see more before I decide whether I want it or not. I appreciate the time and resources Bioware has put into this, but lets face it - when we thought of a continuation of KOTOR we thought "oh, Revan, Exile and the true sith" not "oh, hundreds of years later with totally new people and storyline."

Oh, well. I guess I just don't understand why they just would not make a continuation of te series. There are mixed feelings about this game, and a real KOTOR 3 would probably have made more money. *sigh* I just don't get it...why are they so adament about not making a true K3?

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Old 10-24-2008, 11:08 PM   #104
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This is just a guess, but maybe because of all of the bad press surrounding KotOR2's rushed and incomplete nature?


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Old 10-24-2008, 11:28 PM   #105
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HOP the problem is that TSL kinda killed Revan's story. They booted him off to "Unknown Space" to get rid of him without officially killing him(because the revan worshippers would whine). The period after the Exile had left, virtually no jedi are left. TSL kinda killed the Knights part of it. So until more jedi are around it would be hard to justify KotOR3.
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:30 AM   #106
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I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
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Old 10-25-2008, 09:10 AM   #107
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I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
I think it would be too hard to make sequels that make sense to a series like KOTOR, due to the multiple, drastically different endings in both Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords. No matter which direction you go in a sequel you're bound to piss someone off, making them feel like nothing their characters did in the past two games matter.

Sure, with both Dei Ex Machina from the past two games shipped off into the unknown never to be heard from again (in the light ending at least) it could focus on (yet) another new character with a separate story with no solid connection to the previous two, but then it wouldn't be much of a sequel.

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Old 10-25-2008, 02:21 PM   #108
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I personally am not bothered at all with this game and although I'm disappointed about the lack of K3 I'm hardly surprised that LA have come up with yet another money spinner rather than what would probably have concluded the KOTOR series, which seems to be a more logical thing to do rather than start yet another storyline in yet another era. Ah well...
I agree with that to a certain extent. Maybe, because TSL was finished several years ago, LA considered a, KOTOR 3, a step backwards rather than forwards. I really don't know why they went with TOR, only that they (Lucas Arts, Bio ware) seem to be satisfied with there decision. It seems to please most people, that is. I'm happy with it...

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I think it would be too hard to make sequels that make sense to a series like KOTOR, due to the multiple, drastically different endings in both Knights of the Old Republic and The Sith Lords. No matter which direction you go in a sequel you're bound to piss someone off, making them feel like nothing their characters did in the past two games matter.

Happens to me all the time....

I personally think that a sequel should be better than it's prequel. Topping Kotor is not the easiest of things to do.

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Old 10-26-2008, 05:24 PM   #109
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I think it's a good idea that TOR takes placed 300 years after TSL. That way, they don't have to screw up the story if they don't want to. (Unlike Warcraft 3 -> World of Warcraft). Hopefully, Revan's and the Exile's fate remains a mystery.

I'm curious how Bioware is going to attempt to tell a story in a MMO. I'm certain that it won't be as good as any good RPG in that regard, still,...
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:19 PM   #110
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I think it's a good idea that TOR takes placed 300 years after TSL. That way, they don't have to screw up the story if they don't want to.
I couldn't agree more. Not to mention that leaves enough time to possibly make a KotOR 3 SPRPG.

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Old 10-26-2008, 10:47 PM   #111
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If they made a third KOTOR III, it would suck because you already would know how it was going to end. No doubt they will specify what happened in TOR.


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Old 10-27-2008, 03:04 PM   #112
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That would make the game have to last for 300 years at the minimum. They don't have to tell what happened in that 300 years, just leave it a mystery.

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Old 10-27-2008, 07:17 PM   #113
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If they made a third KOTOR III, it would suck because you already would know how it was going to end.
I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.


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Old 10-27-2008, 07:37 PM   #114
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I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.
Ironic QFE.


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Old 10-28-2008, 05:11 AM   #115
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If you don't believe me, ask the people that are still waiting for Warcraft IV.
lol, that was me for a very long time, until I finally gave up along the lines of two years ago.

I'm a bit undecided on this one. At first, I was dissapointed at no KotOR3. But then I started to think. Even though the storyline of TSL was fantastic, I didn't really like the situation which it left off; Exile and Revan off to fight sith Empire, Exile's companions off to rebuild Jedi, Republic recovering from Jedi civil war.

I like how I can play this for as long as I want, and as the story can't be as good as KotOR 3 would have been, it has more depth and opportunity to it.


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Old 10-28-2008, 06:09 PM   #116
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That would make the game have to last for 300 years at the minimum. They don't have to tell what happened in that 300 years, just leave it a mystery.
That could be true. The Sith could be one everyone's good side because for the last 300 years they made a cover-up story about the Jedi.

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I know, the original two KotORs sucked because I knew the Emperor was going to be killed in RotJ.
No, the KOTOR's didn't suck, but it sure made the first three episode a lot less exciting >.>


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Old 10-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #117
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I have to admit, while some aspects of the premise behind TOR sound interesting and I hope it does well, I also feel like others here that this is not a true sequel or continuation of the KOTOR series at all, it's rather a different series set roughly in the same time period (similar to the Darth Bane series of books). I would have no problem with it if it would involve K3 coming out as well, but since this is it, then I have to admit I'm pretty disappointed at the moment.

For me, this would be like the movie saga ending with ESB (which the ending of TSL always felt to me to be similar to) and shooting straight into the Legacy era of SW, just informing us somewhere in Cade Skywalker's adventures that Vader turned back to the light due to his son, killed Sidious and the Rebellion won. And I think most would feel that would have sucked, rather then seeing the movie trilogy completed. And I feel the same way over this, though some of the potential of TOR sounds interesting with KOTOR they had the makings of a story that was at least just as good as the original movie saga, and they've effectively killed it and allot of the great characters in it mid-way, without us being able to follow that story to it's conclusion.

Anyhow, I hope this MMO does achieve what it sets out to do (as it is effectively carrying the KOTOR flag), but I'll always be bitterly disappointed that they never finished the KOTOR trilogy.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:10 PM   #118
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Who was the antagonist in KotOR? What happened to him?
Who was the antagonist in TSL? What happened to them?

Now answer Who the antagonist in ANH and ESB were and what happened to them at the end of those films.

That is how the analogy to ESB is flawed. See in both the previous games the antagonist in the stories was killed by the end of the game. In the movies, the antagonist was killed in the last movie(by a prior antagonist). The protagonist in the first game never made it past a cameo in the second. So to be totally fair, TSL wasn't a continuation of KotOR. TSL was more like jumping from ANH to Legacy era.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:29 PM   #119
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The protagonist in the first game never made it past a cameo in the second. So to be totally fair, TSL wasn't a continuation of KotOR. TSL was more like jumping from ANH to Legacy era.
And was better for it, IMO.

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Old 10-30-2008, 02:14 PM   #120
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That's not entirely true, at the back of both KOTOR and TSL is references to a greater threat in the Unknown Regions, in K1 we were told the Council suspected something was behind the Mandalorian Wars and consumed Revan and Malak, and Canderous tells you that the Sith were the ones who came to the Mandalorians with the offer to fight the greatest war of their era initiating the Mandalorian Wars. In TSL this thread is picked up and throughout that game we are told Revan went off to fight a greater threat then the current Sith that you are facing, which Keira eventually revealed this to be the 'true Sith' Empire that was waiting in the Unknown Regions and had been manipulating allot of the events and enemies encountered in the first two games (much like the Emperor is only referenced in ANH in which the big threat was the Death Star which was destroyed in that movie, and then only shown in a hologram in ESB, being only fully revealed in ROTJ), with the expectation that the true enemy hinted and further revealed in the first to games would be revealed fully in K3 in the same way.

So I would say there is a continuing enemy throughout the KOTOR series (which will survive to TOR apparently), so I still view it as a trilogy cut short by this jump to TOR
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