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Revan 149 74.13%
Nihilus 52 25.87%
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Thread: Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:52 PM   #1
Anakin Skywalker
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Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

I believe Revan would win, but I may just be saying that because I am Revan.......

This was inspired by a Duel going on between me and my rival CSI: Nihilus, but we have taken the Darth Names and put them on here... I need a lot of help with the fic by the way, I need tons of Sith Assassins..... if you would like to help go HERE and tell us you want to help...

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Old 11-26-2006, 06:58 PM   #2
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Absolutely Revan. Nihilus couldn't even take down the Exile, and Revan had gone through being a Sith Lord to a powerful Jedi before Nihilus was even in power. Most of Nihilus's power was in swallowing worlds - Revan was more than that in every regard.
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Old 11-26-2006, 07:46 PM   #3
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Nihilus would. Because he drains Force at will, and Revan is the heart of the Force. The Exile had no Force and was in fact a wound in the Force, which is why Nihilus was powerless against him. But Nihilus would suck Revan dry in short order... unless prevented by the plot, of course


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Old 11-26-2006, 07:57 PM   #4
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Actually, no Jedi. Nihilus does not control that "power" it contols him as Kreia had said.
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Old 11-26-2006, 08:59 PM   #5
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I vote Nihilus. Well, Draining is a very, very good power...and he can even destroy a planet by himself...Can Revan do?




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Old 11-26-2006, 09:15 PM   #6
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I voted Revan. Why?
Quote:
Kreia~"Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."


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Old 11-26-2006, 09:22 PM   #7
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Is this some kind of a joke? Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan. Only someone who is a wound in the Force, a dead spot in the Force, like the Exile was, could beat Nihilus. Those who claim otherwise do not understand how Nihilus' power works, or are just stubborn Revan fan boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Nihilus would. Because he drains Force at will, and Revan is the heart of the Force. The Exile had no Force and was in fact a wound in the Force, which is why Nihilus was powerless against him. But Nihilus would suck Revan dry in short order... unless prevented by the plot, of course
Jediphile, Revan wasn't literally the heart of the Force, Kreia was just using a metaphor to describe Revan's power. Note how she says "Staring into his/her eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force."

If anyone was ever the heart of the Force, it would be Anakin, considering his Chosen One, had no father, highest ever midi-chlorian count status. He was basically like an incarnation of the Force itself, in other words, the heart of the Force.

Okay, so in terms of gameplay, Revan was powerful and Nihilus was a weakling, but that does not mean Revan would win, because there is a difference between gameplay and the plot. Story wise (which is what counts) Nihilus>Revan. Simple.


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Old 11-26-2006, 09:37 PM   #8
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Fools! Revan, *cough cough* I mean I, would wipe the floor with Nihilus... pure and simple truth!
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:23 PM   #9
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Using logic, I would believe what Architect says.

Just another proof that Nihilus fancy little "drain power" is completely ridiculous and does not at all fit in Star Wars. Why don't we have a Professor X that can kill every living being at will with just that machine of his?

Now suppose, we only know what Kotor II did tell us. Were we told that Nihilus' drain is uncounterable (yes I know that little cutscene with Kreia.. but what does Kreia know? it worked on her, wow, big deal)?

Why should that power be uncounterable? Who sais Revan, who knows a lot more about the force than Kreia, does not know how to counter it?

Well it is all speculation.. but don't believe Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:47 PM   #10
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If they were both just warped into an arena somewhere and forced to fight each other, Nihilus would most likely use that almighty 'hunger' of his to feed on Revan's power and devour him. But, if Revan wanted Nihilus removed from the galaxy, then there are surely other methods he could use to destroy Nihilus, than one on one combat. Nihilus is the more powerful entity, but Revan was the greater Sith Lord.
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Old 11-28-2006, 12:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Is this some kind of a joke? Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan. Only someone who is a wound in the Force, a dead spot in the Force, like the Exile was, could beat Nihilus. Those who claim otherwise do not understand how Nihilus' power works, or are just stubborn Revan fan boys.
I agree with this statement. Anybody voting for Revan is making more of an emotional decision based on their attachment to Revan's character than a logical one since the Exile was the only answer against Nihilus.

It's like Wolverine was the only answer against Jean Gray AKA The Phoenix in X-Men III.


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Old 11-28-2006, 12:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Just another proof that Nihilus fancy little "drain power" is completely ridiculous and does not at all fit in Star Wars.
Neither does the Death Star.

Oooh, a fancy little laser beam that can destroy all planteary shields, and can only be defeated by firing a laser into a small tiny exhaust pipe, but it's impossible because it is small and tiny. But, look! Luke Skywalker is a great pilot, and The Force is on his side, so he is able to shoot into the smally tiny exhaust pipe and WIN!!1!

And, neither does the Chossen One. I mean, really. You're saying that this one person is the only one that can defeat Palpatine...and nobody else. Not even Luke Skywalker, who is much more better than the Chossen One.

Fact is, Star Wars is pretty ridiculous. But it's still fun.
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Is this some kind of a joke? Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan. Only someone who is a wound in the Force, a dead spot in the Force, like the Exile was, could beat Nihilus. Those who claim otherwise do not understand how Nihilus' power works, or are just stubborn Revan fan boys.
I disagree. The fact that Sion and Nihilus rebelled against Kriea implies that atleast before she was exiled, she was more powerful than either of them, and I believe Revan was her superior. I see your logic I just think that a really powerful Jedi/Sith Lord could take him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Jediphile, Revan wasn't literally the heart of the Force, Kreia was just using a metaphor to describe Revan's power. Note how she says "Staring into his/her eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force."
That would be a simile
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:12 PM   #14
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Well, yeah, there're many ways to win a fight, other than one on one direct combat. Revan being a tactician could have thought of some way so that he didnt have to confront Nihilus face to face but still win. What Nihilus has is physical power (ability to suck force), while Revan brain power. Provided that Revan knew of Nihilus's force-sucking ability, that is the threat was known and could be prepared for, brain power always owns.
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Old 11-28-2006, 01:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Neither does the Death Star.

Oooh, a fancy little laser beam that can destroy all planteary shields, and can only be defeated by firing a laser into a small tiny exhaust pipe, but it's impossible because it is small and tiny. But, look! Luke Skywalker is a great pilot, and The Force is on his side, so he is able to shoot into the smally tiny exhaust pipe and WIN!!1!

And, neither does the Chossen One. I mean, really. You're saying that this one person is the only one that can defeat Palpatine...and nobody else. Not even Luke Skywalker, who is much more better than the Chossen One.

Fact is, Star Wars is pretty ridiculous. But it's still fun.
How wrong you are. Nihilus could defeat palpatine too.
And the deathstar is not nearly as ridiculous as Nihilus is. Are you really comparing a gigantic space station with a single man?

But that may just be my opinion.
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Old 11-28-2006, 04:04 PM   #16
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Revan. I hate Nihilus.
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Old 11-28-2006, 04:35 PM   #17
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Lets go through this logically

Strengths and Weaknesses of the 2 Characters;

Nihilus Strengths are;
The force suck ability
No emotion
Minions slaves to his will
Given his abilities extremely large force potential has to be realised

Revan Strengths;
Brilliant tactician
Extremely intelligent
Expert lightsaber duellist
Great force potential

Nihilus Weaknesses;
Slave to his hunger
Thick (Telos being proof, as there were no Jedi there, he should have sensed this)
Arrogance

Revan Weaknesses;
Arrogance
Tendency to over plan
Can be fooled (Malak's betrayal, not seeing who he was, although 2nd point is debatable)
Will do whatever is necessary (Mandalorian wars, as a lightsider I would say this is a problem, but darksiders would probably disagree)

Now, you must decide on the manner in which they would meet. If they came face to face Nihilus would kill Revan, no doubt. From the cut content, Sion canít even get close enough to get into lightsaber combat, and I donít see why Revan would be any different, so Revans abilities with a lightsaber donít matter. The only reason the exile can engage is because of the wound so Nihilus power has no effect moving to lightsaber fight. Nihilus also owned all of the Jedi Council on Katar (Vandar, Dopak, etc) so I think it somewhat arrogant to assume Revan could succeed where they failed. That said Revan is a master tactician, and would probably do something along the lines of what Kreia did to destroy Nihilus, e.g.; find someone who could do the job, that is after all what a good leader does. Or use some kind of weapon (a la star forge to destroy Nihilus' ship)

I personally think too many of you bum (can I say that? no offence intended to anyone mods change that if you feel the need, itís not intended as a flame) Revan. I think face to face combat Nihilus would win, as Kreia said there are techniques in the force against which there is no defence (save the exile) and I donít see any reason not to believe her, as whatever you may think of Kreia she had a very powerful and unique understanding of the force. Much as it pains me to say this as the Exile is my favourite character (apart from Yoda) would get beaten in a fight with Revan. But Revan would loose to Nihilus and in turn Nihilus would loose to the Exile. Thatís what I believe. I also donít think Revan's tactics could combat Nihilus as even though he is stupid, he holds is own ship together, so I think Revan would avoid him until Nihilus own hunger had killed him. Which basically means Revan would be no better than Vrook et al.

Face to face Nihilus would win, no doubt!



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Old 11-28-2006, 04:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan. Only someone who is a wound in the Force, a dead spot in the Force, like the Exile was, could beat Nihilus.
QFE. If he could wipe out whole planets of Force-sensitives, just one Sith Lord wouldn't be much of a threat... whether he was the 'cooler' one or not. Revan may be a powerful Force-user, but he really is just a regular one... which is exactly what Nihilus was best at killing. Revan's strength in the Force would only make him a bigger target.


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Old 11-28-2006, 05:46 PM   #19
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Maybe in a one-on-one, but Revan isn't that dumb. Even then, only maybe.

Why? 'Cuz Nihilus is stupid, and a slave to his hunger. Because Revan would only meet Nihilus on his own terms. Because it's Revan.



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Old 11-28-2006, 06:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revanchow
Well, yeah, there're many ways to win a fight, other than one on one direct combat. Revan being a tactician could have thought of some way so that he didnt have to confront Nihilus face to face but still win. What Nihilus has is physical power (ability to suck force), while Revan brain power. Provided that Revan knew of Nihilus's force-sucking ability, that is the threat was known and could be prepared for, brain power always owns.
This I agree with. Unlike Nihilus, Revan is a strategist, and would choose to fight only those battles he can win or even knows that he will win. He's also big on planning his moves, so the idea that he might gather intelligence on Nihilus' abilities is not unreasonable. And therefore he would know that he'd bite the dust in a direct confrontation with Nihilus and avoid it. That's not to say he cannot defeat Nihilus, though. With prior knowledge of Nihilus, Revan would plan an elaborate trap for Nihilus. But I doubt he'd win a fair fight. Revan is more like Palpatine and his old teacher, Kreia, in this regard, in that he'd choose which battles to fight and how carefully.


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Old 11-28-2006, 07:54 PM   #21
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Ok, gotta be like HK-47 for just a sec...

Mockery: If they were both just warped into an arena somewhere and forced to fight each other, Nihilus would most likely use that almighty 'hunger' of his to feed on Revan's power and devour him. But, if Revan wanted Nihilus removed from the galaxy, then there are surely other methods he could use to destroy Nihilus, than one on one combat. Nihilus is the more powerful entity, but Revan was the greater Sith Lord.

Adendum: Revan would win, my master was always one efficent killing machine.

(HK-47 spell over)
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:22 PM   #22
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Statement: If Revan tried out other methods, rather than fighting a fair fight, one-on-one, Revan would basically be cheating.

Mockery: So, a person who cheats is obivously better than a person who can win a fair fight, right?
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Why should that power be uncounterable? Who sais Revan, who knows a lot more about the force than Kreia, does not know how to counter it?
Well it is all speculation.. but don't believe Nihilus would wipe the floor with Revan.
Why not? Nihilus wiped out many Jedi on Katarr. Are you trying to tell me that Revan is more powerful than all of them put together? Umm...the answer is no. Revan is already overhyped enough as it is. Besides, the more powerful you are, the easier it is for Nihilus to kill you.

Also, who says Revan knows more about the Force than Kreia? That is just speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotorfan84
That would be a simile
Damn it! I was hoping that error would go unnoticed. It seems that someone needs to brush up on their English skills. Me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsie
Revan. I hate Nihilus.
Wow. Great argument there Pottsie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotorfan84
I disagree. The fact that Sion and Nihilus rebelled against Kriea implies that atleast before she was exiled, she was more powerful than either of them, and I believe Revan was her superior. I see your logic I just think that a really powerful Jedi/Sith Lord could take him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Nihilus wiped out many Jedi on Katarr. Are you trying to tell me that Revan is more powerful than all of them put together? Umm...the answer is no. Revan is already overhyped enough as it is. Besides, the more powerful you are, the easier it is for Nihilus to kill you.
There is one thing I'd like to ask about Revan. I've heard all this talk about how Revan was a 'brilliant tactician', a 'master strategist' and all this crap, but can anyone explain what Revan has done that is so remarkable?

Yes, I've played K1 and K2 before, I know what Revan has done, but what is so spectacular about any of it? Anyone care to explain? Sure, Revan had a gift to convert others to his/her cause, but I'm not talking about gifts, I'm talking about military tactics. We never did hear about Revan's so called 'genius' acts did we?


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Old 11-28-2006, 08:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Statement: If Revan tried out other methods, rather than fighting a fair fight, one-on-one, Revan would basically be cheating.

Mockery: So, a person who cheats is obivously better than a person who can win a fair fight, right?
Yes, HK they are......... Like me.

:look down one more post:

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Old 11-28-2006, 08:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Statement: If Revan tried out other methods, rather than fighting a fair fight, one-on-one, Revan would basically be cheating.
That's stooping to Malak's level.


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Old 11-29-2006, 02:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Yes, I've played K1 and K2 before, I know what Revan has done, but what is so spectacular about any of it? Anyone care to explain? Sure, Revan had a gift to convert others to his/her cause, but I'm not talking about gifts, I'm talking about military tactics. We never did hear about Revan's so called 'genius' acts did we?
Maybe you overlooked Canderous's comments on Revan? How he planned and won the Mandalorian Wars. Though the exact details were not lay out, it is certain from what Canderous said that Revan possessed outstanding Military Tactics, not just gifts. Someone must be able to give the quotes.

While I agree Revan seems to be overhyped, by some people, one cannot overlook his true abilities as portraited in KotOR. An all-mighty man who's undefeatable? Absolutely crap. But a brilliant strategist strong in the force? An objective comment I'd say.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
Why not? Nihilus wiped out many Jedi on Katarr. Are you trying to tell me that Revan is more powerful than all of them put together? Umm...the answer is no. Revan is already overhyped enough as it is. Besides, the more powerful you are, the easier it is for Nihilus to kill you.


There is one thing I'd like to ask about Revan. I've heard all this talk about how Revan was a 'brilliant tactician', a 'master strategist' and all this crap, but can anyone explain what Revan has done that is so remarkable?

Yes, I've played K1 and K2 before, I know what Revan has done, but what is so spectacular about any of it? Anyone care to explain? Sure, Revan had a gift to convert others to his/her cause, but I'm not talking about gifts, I'm talking about military tactics. We never did hear about Revan's so called 'genius' acts did we?
Yes, Nihilus wiped out many Jedi on Katarr. It is not mentioned in detail, but my guess is he did it the same way he intented to do it on Telus.

Bringing the ship in an orbit around the planet, then devouring every single last of them from a rather safe distance. How are the Jedi supposed to fight Nihilus from the surface of the planet?
So what I mean is not, that Revan is more powerful than all those Jedi Masters together, but he is probably more powerful than every single one of them. Or at least equal.

Now if you assume Revan is on a planet and suddenly Nihilus pops out of hyberspace and devours the world, I would agree. Nihilus wins.

Like someone said, if they are warped into an arena, Nihilus would win, unless Revan learned new technics from the True Sith. If they were given time to prepare, I'm sure Revan would find a way to defeat Nihilus. Even 1 on 1.

What if brings along an Ysalamiri? No force for both... I wonder who will use that as an advantage?
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Architect
There is one thing I'd like to ask about Revan. I've heard all this talk about how Revan was a 'brilliant tactician', a 'master strategist' and all this crap, but can anyone explain what Revan has done that is so remarkable?

Yes, I've played K1 and K2 before, I know what Revan has done, but what is so spectacular about any of it? Anyone care to explain? Sure, Revan had a gift to convert others to his/her cause, but I'm not talking about gifts, I'm talking about military tactics. We never did hear about Revan's so called 'genius' acts did we?
Some specific examples, I've noted down...

GOTO: "Revan did not intend to destroy the Republic. He deliberately left the infrastructure of many planets intact - and many military production facilities. I believe that by whatever means he used to build his armada, he recognized that it was somehow a limited source - or that he was only willing to use it to a point.My prediction is that whatever production facility was being employed, it carried a price that Revan perceived as detrimental to the goals of the Sith. And that is why Revan left many military production facilities in the Republic intact.Unlike Revan, Malak demonstrated no concern for the future of the Republic in his attacks. His stratagems were painfully obvious, intending to crush all resistance, everywhere. There was little thought beyond the complete destruction of anything that opposed him.{Irritated}He left quite a mess. I'm still trying to assess all the damage.Between the two, I would have preferred Revan rule the galaxy. He had foresight in his conquest, a subtlety that Malak did not possess.That is what occupies my calculations as well. I believe that Revan saw a war on another front that we did not, or saw the value in keeping a strong military force."

Kreia: "You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him. Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore?And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew.The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil. I do not believe the Jedi Council changed Revan, as they claimed. They merely stripped away the surface, and allowed the true self to emerge again - someone who was willing to wage war to save others."

Disciple: "Onderon, strangely enough, was unaffected by the Jedi Civil War. It's almost as if Revan didn't want to attack it.Its position and resources on the Rim make it a vital supply line and a guardpost against Outer Rim attacks."


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Old 11-29-2006, 03:57 PM   #29
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How he planned and won the Mandalorian Wars.
That would have no bearing with Nihilus. He's completely unkillable by regular methods. And no matter how good a strategist Revan is, how would he counter an enemy that wipes out thousands of people on a whim? The only way I can think of would be orbital bombardment, some other type of explosion, or droids (since they're dead to the Force), but none of those are Revan.


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Old 11-29-2006, 11:21 PM   #30
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Maybe you overlooked Canderous's comments on Revan? How he planned and won the Mandalorian Wars. Though the exact details were not lay out, it is certain from what Canderous said that Revan possessed outstanding Military Tactics, not just gifts. Someone must be able to give the quotes.

While I agree Revan seems to be overhyped, by some people, one cannot overlook his true abilities as portraited in KotOR. An all-mighty man who's undefeatable? Absolutely crap. But a brilliant strategist strong in the force? An objective comment I'd say.
No, I know what Canderous said about Revan in K1. Still, as you said, the details of what he/she did weren't laid out. Okay, so a few people say he/she was this 'super genius brilliant tactician' person, but ah, what did he/she do that gave him/her that reputation?

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Some specific examples, I've noted down...

GOTO: "Revan did not intend to destroy the Republic. He deliberately left the infrastructure of many planets intact - and many military production facilities. I believe that by whatever means he used to build his armada, he recognized that it was somehow a limited source - or that he was only willing to use it to a point.My prediction is that whatever production facility was being employed, it carried a price that Revan perceived as detrimental to the goals of the Sith. And that is why Revan left many military production facilities in the Republic intact.Unlike Revan, Malak demonstrated no concern for the future of the Republic in his attacks. His stratagems were painfully obvious, intending to crush all resistance, everywhere. There was little thought beyond the complete destruction of anything that opposed him.{Irritated}He left quite a mess. I'm still trying to assess all the damage.Between the two, I would have preferred Revan rule the galaxy. He had foresight in his conquest, a subtlety that Malak did not possess.That is what occupies my calculations as well. I believe that Revan saw a war on another front that we did not, or saw the value in keeping a strong military force."

Kreia: "You were there at Malachor. Revan's choices were always his own. It was not teaching, or circumstance, or example. It was him. Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore?And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew.The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil. I do not believe the Jedi Council changed Revan, as they claimed. They merely stripped away the surface, and allowed the true self to emerge again - someone who was willing to wage war to save others."

Disciple: "Onderon, strangely enough, was unaffected by the Jedi Civil War. It's almost as if Revan didn't want to attack it.Its position and resources on the Rim make it a vital supply line and a guardpost against Outer Rim attacks."
I'm aware of all this Jediphile. Umm...I'm not impressed. Should I be? Am I just hard to please, or is all of that just 'meh'? Sure, obviously Revan was a smart man/woman, but words like brilliant, military genius, expert tactician shouldn't be used to describe Revan.

Besides, note that GO-TO, Kreia and Disciple are all just speculating. Whether Revan originally sacrificed himself/herself to the dark side or not in the first place is not definitive. We don't know. That remains to be seen.


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Old 11-30-2006, 03:46 AM   #31
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Eh...Looks like I'll difinitely lose in the dueling in RP. Eh, Revan got a lot of fans.




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Old 11-30-2006, 05:01 AM   #32
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That would have no bearing with Nihilus. He's completely unkillable by regular methods. And no matter how good a strategist Revan is, how would he counter an enemy that wipes out thousands of people on a whim? The only way I can think of would be orbital bombardment, some other type of explosion, or droids (since they're dead to the Force), but none of those are Revan.
There are other ways. Vaelastraz had an interesting point when he/she mentioned those Ysalamir things. If neither one of them could manipulate the force, that might give Revan all the edge he needs. Have they ever been mentioned before in the Old Republic era?

And droids are dead to the force, but that doesn't mean that Nihilus couldn't use conventional force powers to wipe them out. I don't think any kind of assassination would work with Nihilus.
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:39 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
That would have no bearing with Nihilus. He's completely unkillable by regular methods. And no matter how good a strategist Revan is, how would he counter an enemy that wipes out thousands of people on a whim? The only way I can think of would be orbital bombardment, some other type of explosion, or droids (since they're dead to the Force), but none of those are Revan.
Maybe distract him with something else and then attack him out of nowhere? This works well esp. with force users, and that's how Nomi Sunrider's husband Andur died. I don't know, just pure imagination.

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I'm aware of all this Jediphile. Umm...I'm not impressed. Should I be? Am I just hard to please, or is all of that just 'meh'? Sure, obviously Revan was a smart man/woman, but words like brilliant, military genius, expert tactician shouldn't be used to describe Revan.
Well, yah you're hard to please
As much as you think Revan shouldn't be described as such, many people regard him as what he is as depicted in the game. I think it's just how the writers of KotOR depict this character, and how Revan is Supposed to be. Coz you can see, it's not just Kreia, not just Go-to, not just Canderous, but there're multiple characters who endorse the same brilliant-strategist image of Revan. Of course, this is just an objective observation; one can always hold his or her own opinions and feelings towards any character.

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Besides, note that GO-TO, Kreia and Disciple are all just speculating. Whether Revan originally sacrificed himself/herself to the dark side or not in the first place is not definitive. We don't know. That remains to be seen.
Yes, but at least all of them speculate towards the same direction. And they speculate based on facts (leaving some core systems intact, etc) that are unreasonable, unresolved. If things go differently, there must be a reason. Unless one could explain them otherwise, the speculation that Revan planned them would be the most plausible explanation.

As for Kreia, one could argue that she knows Revan well as she's Revan's most important teacher, and thus she was bold enough to arrive at such groundbreaking conclusion that Revan did not "fall". From the story perspective back to the reality, do you think the writers created these lines of Kreia, and those of Canderous, Go-to, etc, just to confuse us? I don't think so. There must be a reason they're doing this- these lines should definitely add value and shed light on what's happening in KotOR. They're highly likely to be what the writers intended to be the truth.
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:56 PM   #34
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There are other ways. Vaelastraz had an interesting point when he/she mentioned those Ysalamir things. If neither one of them could manipulate the force, that might give Revan all the edge he needs. Have they ever been mentioned before in the Old Republic era?
The second lightsaber form was named after the ysalimiri, so one could only assume the Jedi Order at least was aware of them. Ysalimiri are frail creatures, though. All you'd have to do in a duel is find the ysalimiri and kill it -- it would take far more preparation than simply having an ysalimiri on your shoulder to make it an effective tool of battle. Of course then again Wookieepedia claims that Myrkr wasn't settled until 300 BBY, so who really knows.

The point I felt like I should bring up is that we've not seen Nihilus's power in action. It may be incredibly draining, or take incredible concentration (like Bastila's battle meditation). In fact Nihilus did devour worlds, but he did it safely from a distance onboard his ship. I somehow get the impression it wouldn't be an effective tool in close combat. Unless he can instantly drain all the Force out of Revan (which I doubt) Revan would have him cut down before he ever finished. As a result, I would assume Nihilus would resort to more conventional dueling techniques, where I'm sure Revan would be the superior.

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Old 11-30-2006, 01:17 PM   #35
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The point I felt like I should bring up is that we've not seen Nihilus's power in action. It may be incredibly draining, or take incredible concentration (like Bastila's battle meditation). In fact Nihilus did devour worlds, but he did it safely from a distance onboard his ship. I somehow get the impression it wouldn't be an effective tool in close combat. Unless he can instantly drain all the Force out of Revan (which I doubt) Revan would have him cut down before he ever finished. As a result, I would assume Nihilus would resort to more conventional dueling techniques, where I'm sure Revan would be the superior.
Plausible indeed.
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Old 11-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #36
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The second lightsaber form was named after the ysalimiri, so one could only assume the Jedi Order at least was aware of them. Ysalimiri are frail creatures, though. All you'd have to do in a duel is find the ysalimiri and kill it -- it would take far more preparation than simply having an ysalimiri on your shoulder to make it an effective tool of battle. Of course then again Wookieepedia claims that Myrkr wasn't settled until 300 BBY, so who really knows.
Though Myrkr may not have been "settled" in that sense at the time, we do know that it had connections to the Republic in the KotOR era, since Master Ood Bnar was one of the Neti native to Myrkr, who "sacrificed" himself to protect jedi secrets from falling into the hands of Exar Kun when Ossus was devastated during the Sith War 40-50 years before the KotOR games. Since there was a jedi master native to Myrkr at the time, it stands to reason that the order would have at least known of the Ysalamiri.

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The point I felt like I should bring up is that we've not seen Nihilus's power in action. It may be incredibly draining, or take incredible concentration (like Bastila's battle meditation). In fact Nihilus did devour worlds, but he did it safely from a distance onboard his ship. I somehow get the impression it wouldn't be an effective tool in close combat. Unless he can instantly drain all the Force out of Revan (which I doubt) Revan would have him cut down before he ever finished. As a result, I would assume Nihilus would resort to more conventional dueling techniques, where I'm sure Revan would be the superior.
But we have seen him use it in combat. He did use it against the Exile. Or at least tried to. And it would have been devastating, had it not been for the fact that the Exile is a wound in the force and so cannot be drained. That's even if we ignore the cut content scene, where Sion turns on Nihilus only to be sucked dry. Basically Nihilus kills Sion by draining all force out of him, only to have Sion reincarnate, since his special ability is that he cannot die. Or at least that he always resurrects. Nihilus could have drained Sion again and again, but there would be no point, and even Sion realised this.


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Old 11-30-2006, 02:38 PM   #37
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So the the ability to resurrect every time he dies is an ability unrelated to the force? Because if it is related to the Dark side, it would not work, once all force is drained from Sion.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InyriForge
The point I felt like I should bring up is that we've not seen Nihilus's power in action. It may be incredibly draining, or take incredible concentration (like Bastila's battle meditation). In fact Nihilus did devour worlds, but he did it safely from a distance onboard his ship. I somehow get the impression it wouldn't be an effective tool in close combat. Unless he can instantly drain all the Force out of Revan (which I doubt) Revan would have him cut down before he ever finished. As a result, I would assume Nihilus would resort to more conventional dueling techniques, where I'm sure Revan would be the superior.
Kreia used the Nihilus type Force Power on the Jedi Council if you choose the light side. Nihilus did it, but realized it didn't have an affect on the Exile. Plus the Exile had help against Nihilus is part of the reason why he/she won so easily.


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Old 11-30-2006, 07:31 PM   #39
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So the the ability to resurrect every time he dies is an ability unrelated to the force? Because if it is related to the Dark side, it would not work, once all force is drained from Sion.
Nihilus could probably have done that by leaving Sion dead to the force. But it seems he chose not to, and so Sion could resurrect. Don't forget that the medical crews of the Harbinger were certain that he was quite dead until he decided to resurrect.


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Old 11-30-2006, 07:39 PM   #40
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There are other ways. Vaelastraz had an interesting point when he/she mentioned those Ysalamir things. If neither one of them could manipulate the force, that might give Revan all the edge he needs. Have they ever been mentioned before in the Old Republic era?
As Inyri said, one hack of a lightsaber and it's dead.

Even so, I'm doubtful one could even work on Nihilus. He seems to be dead to the Force in the way that the Exile is.

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And droids are dead to the force, but that doesn't mean that Nihilus couldn't use conventional force powers to wipe them out. I don't think any kind of assassination would work with Nihilus.
He could use convential Force powers on them, but that still makes him far from invincible. I don't think Nihilus could hold his own against 500 droids firing simultaneously.

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Maybe distract him with something else and then attack him out of nowhere?
Wouldn't work. Force-sensitives, when in combat, can sense their opponent's intentions.


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