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Old 06-19-2008, 01:58 AM   #1
Tanqexe
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Thumbs up OJP V1.2 stance modifications

This here file will give you a few modifications to the stances currently in v1.2. This isn't really an official OJP change of stances, just a mix of my personal preference of stances.

I'm in the process of learning Dragon so that I can make some additional frames to better simulate breathing. In the meantime, these are some of the stances that I've come up with using the existent humanoid.gla - apparently the .gla size has been doubled because identical frames have been replicated and tacked on to the original (didn't realize the extent until I waded through half of the frames :/ ).

Download stance mod here

Current list of affected stances:
  • Shii-cho
  • Makashi
  • Juyo

Shii-cho:

This is a "breathing" Shii-cho stance, a relaxed hasso no kamae, simple and effective position to launch attack and defense from, as is in the spirit of what Shii-cho is intended for. It's similar to the old Shii-cho, except the saber's pointed forward a tiny bit in a slightly threatening posture. The stance is also a bit similar to the default KotOR lightsaber stance. If possible I'd make a Shii-cho variation that resembles chuudan no kamae for a side by side comparison.

Shii-cho: front left 3/4
Shii-cho: rear
Shii-cho: right

Makashi:

OK, not a lot of choices for Makashi right now, but this one's a lot more relaxed than the previous incarnations that we have used. Nothing's more deceptively arrogant than assuming a relaxed, almost lackadaisical off-center low guard that other people think they can take advantage of. However, the grip is still a classical fencer's grip, slightly angled for maximum dexterity of the wrist. A forward grip like this preserves the range, precision, and fine manipulation incredibly lacking in a reverse grip. The older version of this stance looked way too uncomfortable - imagine having to raise your arm up like that all the time, it gets tiring after a very short while - or the reverse grip, where you're probably feeling like you're going to develop arthritis someday from having to hold that saber in that particular way.

Added bonus is that if you use a curved hilt (as shown in the pictures below), if you look down slightly below horizontal, your saber drags a little bit on the floor, adding to the relaxed yet menacing posture of the stance.

Makashi: right side
Makashi: front right 3/4 #1
Makashi: front right 3/4 #2 (saber dragging)
Makashi: front view
Makashi: front left 3/4
Makashi: rear left 3/4
Makashi: rear view
Makashi: rear right 3/4

Juyo:

A stance suitable to the spirit of Juyo and looks a bit like kasumi no kamae. This stance is assumed for situations where, as an example, the other guy is threatening you with a jodan and you aim your sword right between his eyes. It's meant to be a deceptive stance where it's hard to predict whether you'll move up for a parry or simply cut the other guy's head in one swift movement. In addition, because of the threatening nature of kasumi, you subtly hinder the choice of movement from your opponent. You're also leaving yourself open intentionally to bait the other guy to attack in a manner that overextends themselves from center line, leaving you with an opportunity to spill their guts open. Swift attack and defense can be launched from this position at unconventional angles.

Juyo: right side
Juyo: front right 3/4 #1
Juyo: front right 3/4 #2
Juyo: front #1
Juyo: front #2
Juyo: left 3/4
Juyo: left side
Juyo: rear left 3/4

It's similar to the stance Revan assumed on his flagship, but on the right side instead. Using a right side-oriented stance flowed better with the attack swings and fakes existent for Juyo. I was intending to do a 2-frame animation loop to simulate breathing, but the following frame pointed the saber too far off-center; if I can figure out how to use Dragon maybe that can be done.

Future work:
  • I'm looking into another defensive stance for Soresu that doesn't obstruct the view so much in TrueView but still flows well with the animations.
  • Djem So might be retooled a bit into a very aggressive migi hasso variation (compared to the current one).

Suggestions welcome



Last edited by Tanqexe; 06-19-2008 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 09:01 AM   #2
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i like the shii-cho and juyo stances but still prefer the dooku stance for makashi i'll give it a d/l


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Old 06-19-2008, 09:11 AM   #3
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The thing that makes me think though.
If you only change the stances, the lower you put makashi, the more ''sub-sonic'' speeds are achieved when slashing and parrying lol.

Whilst I do like the stances (The makashi one reminds me of the one handed stance from Samurai Showdown (Videogame)), I dunno if I'll download this soon.

They seem a bit too ''samurai'' like, compared to the actual slashes that they do.


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Old 06-19-2008, 10:44 AM   #4
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Tanq practices some form of sword-fighting so his opinion on the stances will naturally be a bit biased to real world examples of sword stances.

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Old 06-19-2008, 12:19 PM   #5
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Um yeah, guess what the saber fighting from the movies were derived from. Sword stances were developed because they have a strategic value, and it doesn't matter if it's a baseball bat, a broomstick, a one/two-edged sword, or an infinite-edged lightsaber, the stances are still practical. Most of the poses you see in the movies are classic kenjutsu or fencing stances, so I really don't see the validity of objections to using them, considering that the highest level of canon has shown that they're very much a part of lightsaber fighting. What works, works, and it's the reason why both the new and old stunt coordinators of the movies used some of them as a basis for lightsaber fighting. There is no unfounded bias here, and these stances weren't picked by some random noob who doesn't know wtf they're talking about.

I also did mention that the stances were selected to flow as well as possible with the different directional swings of each style, so I don't really see the validity of the criticism of flow.

Regarding Makashi, as I said the options here are limited until a completely new set of frames is added into the .gla. Ideally I would place the right leg as the lead, with the saber out 60 degrees from center line, ~45 degrees down towards the ground from horizontal. That's a very, very relaxed and arrogant low guard. No kenjutsu or fencing practitioner would be caught dead using that stance, don't trust video games as your source of sword knowledge. Most people don't have the reflexes to guard from that position, though hypothetically a Jedi/Sith can. Anyway at that point it's not so much the speed of the initial guard or attack but the anticipation of the strike - the supreme confidence in one's skill and in knowing that you can parry from an inferior position or strike at a zone that the enemy, no matter how fast they can respond to an attack, would be hard pressed to defend anyway.

Thus the arrogance of the Makashi stance, because such a stance relies on one's level of skill and tactics to attack an enemy's weak spots without having to rely on the inherent offensive/defensive capability of the stance. The Makashi stance is meant to be as much a psychological tool as the jodan no kamae/high guard that Viper was suggesting for Juyo in the other thread. It literally screams "I don't need to be really ready for you to kill you," which was what Dooku's attitude exuded during the initial parts of the four fights we saw him participate in.


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Old 06-19-2008, 04:17 PM   #6
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i like. nice to have some stance variety

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Old 06-20-2008, 01:13 AM   #7
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I like the stances alot, but when I put it in my juyo swing animations now have some slight animation freezes like they have in the past. I may have to put the old ones back in


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Old 06-20-2008, 01:23 AM   #8
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Hm that doesn't happen for me.

I've just built a new Makashi breathing stance from Dragon, and I'll probably do the same for Juyo instead of recycling stock anims. Maybe that'll fix things.

Edit:

New idea for Makashi stance courtesy of Dragon

Figuring out how to maintain upper torso while in walk anim at the moment. Gonna tweak the angle of the low guard and the offhand some more until animation flows smoothly.



Last edited by Tanqexe; 06-20-2008 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 06-21-2008, 01:10 AM   #9
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OK, I've mostly figured out how to make Dragon work to my wishes. That means I can retool saber, gun, even punching animation. If people have suggestions w/ reference pictures, please post them and I'll see what I can do.


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Old 06-21-2008, 01:52 PM   #10
Kahn D'halaine
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Oh, I like! Better than the one I'm currently using, anyway.
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Old 06-21-2008, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate View Post
Tanq practices some form of sword-fighting so his opinion on the stances will naturally be a bit biased to real world examples of sword stances.
What starwars geek doesnt?
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:14 PM   #12
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How true Tapela! I'm a swordsman myself, along with some rusty Tang Su Do. (As in I haven't practiced in 4 years...) I use short swords because I never learned long swords...


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Old 06-22-2008, 02:41 AM   #13
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I use anything, from Katar(n) (lame joke lol) to teh Longsword.

Though I prefer shorter swords (not actual short swords though) for attack speed. Long swords just make me feel kinda slow.

Like a Djem-So ojp player with saberanimspeed on X with X being X<1


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Old 06-24-2008, 10:46 PM   #14
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Longswords with even half decent construction are wielded lightning fast in the right hands. Not epee/rapier fast, but pretty damn fast, and good for most ranges, suitable for various situations (armored, unarmored).

But that's beside the point. Suggestions for stances, please.


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Old 06-26-2008, 04:50 PM   #15
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Change the idiot melee boxing stance.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:52 PM   #16
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Very, very dangerous.

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Old 06-26-2008, 10:50 PM   #17
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what about that high two handed stance i mentioned?


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Old 06-27-2008, 11:36 AM   #18
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Makashi opening stance.
The opening stance for Makashi was a single-handed low guard, with the blade angled downward at the practitioner's side
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imageooku_wosw.jpg

Opening stance for ataru
The opening stance for Ataru was a balanced two-handed guard: holding the lightsaber vertically with both palms, either on the right or left side of the body.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Ewan.jpg

opening stance for Niman
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Coleman.jpg

opening stance for Juyo (revan)
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image...confronted.jpg

shii-Cho opening stance.
The hilt would be held at hip height, the dominant foot was back with the tip of the blade pointing over the opponents head

Shien opening stance
Shien was a high guard position, with the hilt held in a two-handed grip above the user's head, and the blade angled upwards and behind the user. The dominant leg would be back, enabling powerful step-through strikes to be utilized. Shien does not use the backwards grip, there is another unorthodox style that does so, though its users are often Shien stylists as well.

Soresu opening stance
Back hunched, a good defensive posture, is ready for any occurrence but is also non-threatening. light saber at a position that easily can parry most attacks, Obi-wan uses it for most blocks.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Fast.jpg

if you want to know more then read here ... it tells us all the different stances, neutral, aggressive and defensive.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:..._improve_it.3F


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Old 06-27-2008, 01:03 PM   #19
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All I see is specific jedi's personal stance preferences...

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Old 06-27-2008, 01:27 PM   #20
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considering that you can already get the dooku opening stance, that coleman and obi-wan both show the same stance for two different styles and that the juyo stance can be found in the pack already, i dont see any of these as adding the game. Also, and max, DD, or anyone correct me if im wrong but, we cannot seperate the dual stance from ataru and niman from staff.


heres an idea that would add the game(dont know if its at all possible tho), each style should have X amount of stances to choose from. each player can choose their preferred stance when they buy the style. i dont think its possible tho do each player having their own animation cfg with commented and uncommented stances.


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Old 06-27-2008, 01:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate View Post
All I see is specific jedi's personal stance preferences...
based on the mentality and guidelines a form, there is always one or two stances that a form is effective with, but one particular stance focuses on the advantages of the particular form.

For example, Djem so is an aggressive form, thus it uses a stance that is ready to do a swing.


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Old 06-27-2008, 01:43 PM   #22
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No, there is not. Because the style is the personal flavour fighting style of the wielder, of which the mentality is based upon the form. There is no standard opening stance for the forms, and saying that there is one for the styles is saying that there's a standard way to draw a line.

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Old 06-27-2008, 02:11 PM   #23
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sure there is. take a group of Djem so practioners, and i bet you 75% of them will use the same opening stance. Simply cause theres always a certain stance that suits a style the best... saying there isn't one for the styles is like saying there isn't a perfect apple from the tree.

trust me when i say one apple will always be juicer then the rest.


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Old 06-27-2008, 03:46 PM   #24
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Yeah, melee stance is being changed. I'm looking into it.

Some new breathing stances, one for the aforementioned Makashi, as well as one for Viper, just to test how well a jodan stance for Djem So will look good.

Makashi

Makashi - right side view
Makashi - front right 3/4
Makashi - front view 1
Makashi - front view 2
Makashi - front view 3
Makashi - front left 3/4
Makashi - left side view
Makashi - left rear 3/4
Makashi - rear view

Djem So

Djem So - left side view
Djem So - rear left 3/4
Djem So - rear view
Djem So - rear right 3/4 1
Djem So - rear right 3/4 2
Djem So - right side view 1
Djem So - right side view 2
Djem So - front right 3/4 1
Djem So - front right 3/4 2
Djem So - front right 3/4 3
Djem So - front view
Djem So - front left 3/4

Retooling Juyo. Was working on it first, but then Dragon crashed due to my screen saver activating.


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Old 06-27-2008, 04:56 PM   #25
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are you continually updating the link or are you going to finish it all then release?


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Old 06-27-2008, 05:02 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper32 View Post
are you continually updating the link or are you going to finish it all then release?
Well, here's what I had planned:

1st release: retooled saber stances
2nd release: retooled gun stances + melee
3rd release: miscellaneous animation fixes

I've got saber stances mostly figured out. What I'd like is for you guys to provide some gun stances that you might want to see - I don't want to make a pack of gun stances and have people not like it after the fact.


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Old 06-27-2008, 05:53 PM   #27
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i mean tanq, does the current link include the new djem so and makashi stances or are the just the first post?


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Old 06-28-2008, 07:35 AM   #28
Kahn D'halaine
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Have you had a look at the animations I changed?
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:47 AM   #29
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is it possible for me to edit my own animation cfg to make the djem stance you made the juyo one? and if so what are the command lines for the shii-cho stance, soresu stance, and djem so stance? i already know makashi and juyo.


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Old 06-28-2008, 07:50 AM   #30
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That's part of what I did with the .cfg, I gathered all stances at the end of the script to give ye all easier access to edit them, instead of having to search the whole script for the new stances. Just download my mod, decide for yourself what you want of it and edit the stances at the end of the script.
UltimateWeapons for OJP Enhanced
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:13 AM   #31
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Link's not updated. I guess I wasn't being clear about having discrete releases with that list.

These aren't stance animations jacked from the original _humanoid.gla, though. The stances are all freshly cooked out of Dragon and merged. You'll need the new merged GLA file for it to work.

And dude, D'halaine, I got nothing against you, but pimping your stuff in my thread isn't cool, no matter the intention.


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Old 06-28-2008, 08:31 AM   #32
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Sorry Tangexe, but I just thought that there are some pretty good enhancements that I think you should include (mostly the BOTH_KNOCKDOWN2 anim).
BTW, I've got some old Force stances that Wytchking made once upon a time, that I really think we should base our own Force anims on. Have a look at it, will ya?
Animation Requests - Filefront Gaming Forums
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Old 06-30-2008, 01:31 PM   #33
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Kahn, could you stop posting about YOUR modifications in TANQ's thread? It's annoying and you're stealing his thunder.

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Old 06-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #34
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I'm posting about OUR modification, and I'm coming with suggestions for animations for God's sake!
Why don't you have a look at what I'm posting (like the forum link for example), before you state that I'm acting rude by giving him suggestions and requests?

Now, back on topic. When will you give us an update with the new Makashi stance? It looks really good, very relaxed. I like that.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
All I see is specific jedi's personal stance preferences...
So if Tanq does so well, maybe we'll give players a choice. For ex. 3 stances to choose in one style. There are so many stances from previous versions and these new that it is possible.
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqexe View Post
This here file will give you a few modifications to the stances currently in v1.2. This isn't really an official OJP change of stances, just a mix of my personal preference of stances.

I'm in the process of learning Dragon so that I can make some additional frames to better simulate breathing. In the meantime, these are some of the stances that I've come up with using the existent humanoid.gla - apparently the .gla size has been doubled because identical frames have been replicated and tacked on to the original (didn't realize the extent until I waded through half of the frames :/ ).

Download stance mod here

Current list of affected stances:
  • Shii-cho
  • Makashi
  • Juyo

Shii-cho:

This is a "breathing" Shii-cho stance, a relaxed hasso no kamae, simple and effective position to launch attack and defense from, as is in the spirit of what Shii-cho is intended for. It's similar to the old Shii-cho, except the saber's pointed forward a tiny bit in a slightly threatening posture. The stance is also a bit similar to the default KotOR lightsaber stance. If possible I'd make a Shii-cho variation that resembles chuudan no kamae for a side by side comparison.

Shii-cho: front left 3/4
Shii-cho: rear
Shii-cho: right

Makashi:

OK, not a lot of choices for Makashi right now, but this one's a lot more relaxed than the previous incarnations that we have used. Nothing's more deceptively arrogant than assuming a relaxed, almost lackadaisical off-center low guard that other people think they can take advantage of. However, the grip is still a classical fencer's grip, slightly angled for maximum dexterity of the wrist. A forward grip like this preserves the range, precision, and fine manipulation incredibly lacking in a reverse grip. The older version of this stance looked way too uncomfortable - imagine having to raise your arm up like that all the time, it gets tiring after a very short while - or the reverse grip, where you're probably feeling like you're going to develop arthritis someday from having to hold that saber in that particular way.

Added bonus is that if you use a curved hilt (as shown in the pictures below), if you look down slightly below horizontal, your saber drags a little bit on the floor, adding to the relaxed yet menacing posture of the stance.

Makashi: right side
Makashi: front right 3/4 #1
Makashi: front right 3/4 #2 (saber dragging)
Makashi: front view
Makashi: front left 3/4
Makashi: rear left 3/4
Makashi: rear view
Makashi: rear right 3/4

Juyo:

A stance suitable to the spirit of Juyo and looks a bit like kasumi no kamae. This stance is assumed for situations where, as an example, the other guy is threatening you with a jodan and you aim your sword right between his eyes. It's meant to be a deceptive stance where it's hard to predict whether you'll move up for a parry or simply cut the other guy's head in one swift movement. In addition, because of the threatening nature of kasumi, you subtly hinder the choice of movement from your opponent. You're also leaving yourself open intentionally to bait the other guy to attack in a manner that overextends themselves from center line, leaving you with an opportunity to spill their guts open. Swift attack and defense can be launched from this position at unconventional angles.

Juyo: right side
Juyo: front right 3/4 #1
Juyo: front right 3/4 #2
Juyo: front #1
Juyo: front #2
Juyo: left 3/4
Juyo: left side
Juyo: rear left 3/4

It's similar to the stance Revan assumed on his flagship, but on the right side instead. Using a right side-oriented stance flowed better with the attack swings and fakes existent for Juyo. I was intending to do a 2-frame animation loop to simulate breathing, but the following frame pointed the saber too far off-center; if I can figure out how to use Dragon maybe that can be done.

Future work:
  • I'm looking into another defensive stance for Soresu that doesn't obstruct the view so much in TrueView but still flows well with the animations.
  • Djem So might be retooled a bit into a very aggressive migi hasso variation (compared to the current one).

Suggestions welcome
great work, making each styles opening stance has to be done in a way where they are all unique looking and adhere to the style combat philosophy.

looking at the stances in OJP 1.2 enhanced, Juyo is the same as shii-cho .. and Makashi to me seemed a bit rigid,

You fixed them both, congrats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqexe View Post
Yeah, melee stance is being changed. I'm looking into it.

Some new breathing stances, one for the aforementioned Makashi, as well as one for Viper, just to test how well a jodan stance for Djem So will look good.

Makashi

Makashi - right side view
Makashi - front right 3/4
Makashi - front view 1
Makashi - front view 2
Makashi - front view 3
Makashi - front left 3/4
Makashi - left side view
Makashi - left rear 3/4
Makashi - rear view

Djem So

Djem So - left side view
Djem So - rear left 3/4
Djem So - rear view
Djem So - rear right 3/4 1
Djem So - rear right 3/4 2
Djem So - right side view 1
Djem So - right side view 2
Djem So - front right 3/4 1
Djem So - front right 3/4 2
Djem So - front right 3/4 3
Djem So - front view
Djem So - front left 3/4

Retooling Juyo. Was working on it first, but then Dragon crashed due to my screen saver activating.
the djem so you have here is actually anakin's Shien stance. But it doesn't matter cause any stance can be used with any style, plus It really separates itself from the others, nice work.

Makashi here is better then the last one!! its slightly higher which very much resembles this...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imageooku_wosw.jpg

beautiful work i can really see this getting the gold star from Razorace...


What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!

Last edited by The Unbeholden; 07-05-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:56 AM   #37
Binol
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Can you make additional stance?
If yeas, please make stance like Darth Vader’s Secret Apprentice had!

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4

It this possible? If yes, can you create this? Maybe for DUAL/ATARU?

Last edited by Binol; 07-19-2008 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:33 PM   #38
madcatmach2
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look at post 32

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Old 07-20-2008, 09:23 AM   #39
Binol
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But this is for OJP?
How install this?
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:04 PM   #40
Alexman113
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This thread is golden. Why did it die? I am loving these stances. As a juyo user, I could really appreciate a different stance for it. I would prefer the Revan stance for Juyo. I think that in the perfect OJp world that I should walk up to someone, they pull out their saber and I know what style they use. Just my thoughts though.


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