lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Israeli/Palestinian Conflict MEGATHREAD
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 12-28-2008, 10:48 AM   #1
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Israeli/Palestinian Conflict MEGATHREAD

welp, i guess i'll kick this shindig off with this. basically israel decided to bomb civilian targets as schools were letting out and a killed a few hundred civilians in response to one israeli woman being injured in an attack carried out by a small faction of palestinians in a response to an occupation and blockade in response to rocket attacks in response to the last thing.

to finish up this post: am i allowed to hate what israel is doing (bombing one group for the actions of another) or is that still against the rules?



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 10:52 AM   #2
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner.






Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 10:59 AM   #3
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor_Kaine View Post
I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner.
QFT

Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 11:06 AM   #4
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
QFT

Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons.
iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 07:30 PM   #5
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.
Hm... that too, but I was more or less referring to the recent operation. Of course, you could also say that the conflict started several thousand years ago when those damn Israelites just had to go to Canaan and drive everyone else out.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #6
EnderWiggin
Sine Amore Nihil Est Vita
 
EnderWiggin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,395
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.
Yeah, the whole ****ing thing is stupid. They're like two stupid children fighting and one of them is going to get hurt. And then they're going to run crying to us, or to the caliph, (depending on which one gets hurt) and then ****'s goin' down.

_EW_



Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black. ~ Prime

Yes, I hate you.

J7 - thanks for accepting me as part of the 'family.'
EnderWiggin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 07:56 PM   #7
Ctrl Alt Del
Uncreative User
 
Ctrl Alt Del's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 3,814
Current Game: Dishonored
Forum Veteran 
Now tell me Israel didn't knew that this would only render the palestinians more eager to fight on the only way they can cause real damage: more terrorist attacks.


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
Ctrl Alt Del is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-28-2008, 11:45 PM   #8
Rev7
I'm a Mage
 
Rev7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,208
Current Game: CoD 5 WaW; Skate 2
Helpful! 
As long as these two nations keep fighting, there will not be peace.

Tolerance

Rev7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 12:19 AM   #9
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
Yeah, pretty much been said, Israel's concept of diplomacy is "do what we say or we kill you", and their responses to violence against them are "we kill you moar!". It's moronic and annoying. I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms.

I really wish the US would stop backing them.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 12:21 AM   #10
vanir
Forumite
 
vanir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: south of Gundagai
Posts: 632
jmac, you rock
vanir is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 05:14 AM   #11
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms.
Favourable in Israel's eyes must mean no terms for the other guys, then.






Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 07:54 AM   #12
Tommycat
>^..^<
 
Tommycat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,578
Current Game: Real Life 1.0(BETA)
Forum Veteran 
Yeah, if Hamas would stop going for their stated goal of driving the jews into the ocean, then maybe we could actually hate the Isrealis properly. Don't get me wrong, I hate what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians. They always answer death with a hundred deaths. Hamas has answered death with death as well, but the only thing they do differently is answer peace with death. Well I guess the Israelis do that too...

Ah well, The only way there will be peace in that area will be when the Israelis give up the land they bought from those that are now called Palestinians, but are really Jordans(Jordanians?) because they want their land back. Strangely enough I get to hear both sides of this argument from an Israeli friend and a Palestinian friend. You can guess why I don't ever let them meet up haha. but from what they have said:

Israeli side: They bought the land legally from the Jordans, and established themselves there. The people that are fighting now are trying to steal back the land that was legally purchased. The Palestinians have already stolen much of the land.

Palestinian side: The Jews worked shady deals to scam them out of the land in the first place, and the Palestinians are taking back what is rightfully theirs. The Israelis broke their word to them on numerous occasions, and attempted to drive the remaining people out. They treat them as slaves and second class citizens. If they treat them as citizens at all.

My take: Chances are there were probably some shady deals, and the palestinians actually have a point for their hatred. But stealing the land back isn't the best option. Neither side is right in the conflict. Until both sides agree on that, they won't have peace.
Tommycat is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 09:39 AM   #13
Spriggs
Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
As far as hating them I don't see what good it will do, but it's understandable at the very least. It's tragic, but we all know that, and with the bad blood between the two it won't be easy to come to a resolution, much less a good one. But we all know that as well, I suppose we can only hope some good will come out of this. That perhaps Israel's supporting nations will not continue to enable them to do things like this.
Spriggs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 10:41 AM   #14
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 01:02 PM   #15
Spriggs
Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around.
As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind. I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel. Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step.
Spriggs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 01:26 PM   #16
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind.
How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel.
I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year.

And then when you find out what they do with it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step.
Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good.

PS Welcome to LF
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #17
Spriggs
Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.
I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year. And then when you find out what they do with it...
I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good.
Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion.

So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
PS Welcome to LF
Thank you very much!
Spriggs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 02:13 PM   #18
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.
stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year.
it's staggering how much we give them in just a single day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
And then when you find out what they do with it...
buy stealth planes so they can get around palestinian radar.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 02:45 PM   #19
Rev7
I'm a Mage
 
Rev7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,208
Current Game: CoD 5 WaW; Skate 2
Helpful! 
Well, there has been yet another day of attacks. More wounded/killed.

Lastest news

According to this article, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Cabinet ministers Sunday that the situation "is liable to continue for some time."

Rev7 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 03:40 PM   #20
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate.
It mostly at matter of opinion anyway. There might be good arguments for an adult/child argument, but I tend to view global politics as cranky, unwashed children in a sandbox, so that probably influences my analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing.
It varies slightly from year-to-year, but IIRC it's about $3 billion in foreign aid. I believe military aid is a separate number and I wouldn't trust any number I saw published because not all military spending is reported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion.

So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol.
You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington.

Intro
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 04:02 PM   #21
Spriggs
Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington.

Intro
That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us.
Spriggs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 04:09 PM   #22
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spriggs View Post
That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us.
Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 04:26 PM   #23
Spriggs
Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them.
My... aren't they all a bundle of joy.
Spriggs is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 07:43 PM   #24
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 07:46 PM   #25
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people.

The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 07:53 PM   #26
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
For God's sake, please don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:00 PM   #27
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people.

The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill.
Isreal is tired of being bossed around, and the death toll keeps pilling up. I don't see any other course of action. They are a democracy surounded by terrorist states. Does this excuse 230+ civilian deaths? Pull some reality into the mix. How many civilians has Palestine killed over the years? They are both guilty of killing civilian; nevertheless, something had to break the cycle. One way or another this has to end. Diplomacy was not working out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
For God's sake, don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
You have to pay attention to the news. Obama is not directly responsible for anything; however, it doesn't mean others don't have a problem with him.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:00 PM   #28
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,049
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
It's all Obama fault AGAIN. Please explain why Israel practiced preemptive strikes in the 80s, 90s and 2000s under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Is someone in the Israeli government clairvoyant and knew back in the 80s that we would one day elected Obama president?

Israel practices this procedure because they believe it give themselves the best chance of remaining secure. I happen to disagree.

What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:03 PM   #29
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
It's all Obama fault AGAIN. Please explain why Israel practiced preemptive strikes in the 80s, 90s and 2000s under Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Is someone in the Israeli government clairvoyant and knew back in the 80s that we would one day elected Obama president?

Israel practices this procedure because they believe it give themselves the best chance of remaining secure. I happen to disagree.

What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
For God's sake, please don't drag Obama into this, he has little to do with Israel's decision to strike Gaza. Israel had been planning this attack for months, not just several weeks.
Everyone is missing the whole point. Scan over my posts again so you don't make a false accusation.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:05 PM   #30
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
What else can we blame on Obama? I broke a shoelace today. I suppose that is some how his fault too.
Obama wanted to bring jobs back to the U.S. from third-world countries, therefore, Nike wanted its sweatshop workers to labor harder before they actually have to pay American workers a reasonable salary. The eight-year-old boy in Pakistan who was fitting the plastic tip on your lace did it poorly due to increased production. Therefore, Obama is undermining our own feet, the cornerstone of human productivity.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:07 PM   #31
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Obama wanted to bring jobs back to the U.S. from third-world countries, therefore, Nike wanted its sweatshop workers to labor harder before they actually have to pay American workers a reasonable salary. The eight-year-old boy in Pakistan who was fitting the plastic tip on your lace did it poorly due to increased production. Therefore, Obama is undermining our own feet, the cornerstone of human productivity.
You folks are not paying attention. You have to read posts carefully.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:08 PM   #32
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,049
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
No, it attempts to make Obama look bad.

On the Israeli part, Obama is merely an excuse and a terrible one at that. No matter who the U.S. President is, they will support Israeli. Especially if he/she wants a second term in office.
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:14 PM   #33
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
You folks are not paying attention. You have to read posts carefully.
And I was. I'm saying that there is no way that Obama has anything to do with Israel's strike in Gaza. They've been doing this for decades, and with our weapons, they can.

For example, in 1981, France was helping Iraq build a nuclear reactor. Now, Israel assumed that this was for the procurement of plutonium for nuclear weapons, however, it could've just been for peaceful purposes. Well, Israel didn't really care about what the reactor was being used for, so they simply bombed it, without any warning in advance. Now, that's pretty damn devious of Israel to do that, and although Iraq was being led by Hussein, who would later kill many more innocent civilians, it doesn't just allow Israel to barge into any other country and impose their beliefs on it. Hm... just like the U.S.

Last edited by jrrtoken; 12-29-2008 at 08:40 PM.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:21 PM   #34
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
No, it attempts to make Obama look bad.

On the Israeli part, Obama is merely an excuse and a terrible one at that. No matter who the U.S. President is, they will support Israeli. Especially if he/she wants a second term in office.
I don't think its a attempt to make him look bad. I do however see this as a legit concern on Isreal's behalf. Its has to do with where you live in the world, and how that affects your views from the other side. You and I can live in the US under any president; however, people on the other side of the world can have a different tolerance. Isreal views Obama as a very inexperienced president. We know he is not experienced in foreign policy; nevertheless, US citizens lax a blind eye to give him a opportunity. We don't see the world through Isreal's eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
And I was. I'm saying that there is no way that Obama has anything to do with Israel's strike in Gaza. They've been doing this for decades, and with our weapons, they can.
I'm on your side. Obama didn't do anything directly. This war has been going on for years. They just don't have faith in our next president. I'm certain it has happend sometime in the past as well. Different president but similar conditions.

*** Edit ***

We learned about Obama's parental connection to Islam. We also learned Obama became a Christian through educational exposure. U.S. citizens can live knowing the unorthodox cards that have been played; however, what and how does the world view Obama's past? Does Isreal and Palestine have the tolerance to play diplomacy with Obama? I can't answer these questions. We have to wait and see how the world changes. Isreal's actions can be taken as a light precursor to events yet to unfold.

How does the world view a United States president who has experience with Islamic and Christian traditions? Will this cause insecurity to be felt around the world? Will this make other countries change their stance with us? I don't have enough political science knowledge to answer these questions. I don't think anyone here does.

Last edited by Yar-El; 12-29-2008 at 08:43 PM.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #35
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,049
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Isreal views Obama as a very inexperienced president. We know he is not experienced in foreign policy; nevertheless, US citizens lax a blind eye to give him a opportunity. We don't see the world through Isreal's eyes.
First off, you know nothing of me or how I view the world beyond what I post here. You don’t know about the tattoos on my Great Uncle and Aunt’s arms. You may not even know the meaning of those tattoos. You don’t know where they lived from 1976 until their deaths in the late 80’s. Does not mean I understand what the people of Israel have been though, but it does mean I care about Israel.

Second, Obama is not the first president to lack experience. George W Bush had absolutely no experience beyond being Texas governor (which means he had no experience). The Lieutenant Governor runs the show in Texas. Which explains how Texas has survived the last two idiots we had in the office of Governor. Beyond pardons and appointments, the Governor of Texas is a figurehead and nothing more (Explains why my aspiration in High School was to be the Governor of Texas). Of course, in fairness to Israel, if the last President with little (no experience) is any indication of how things will be handled in the Middle East, they may want to primitive the entire region into glass.
mimartin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #36
Achilles
Dapper Chimp
 
Achilles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8,204
Helpful! Veteran Modder Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
Funny, that's what the Palestinians say too.
Achilles is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:46 PM   #37
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
Funny, that's what the Palestinians say too.
Its a endless cycle. Peace settles in for a brief moment, and then all hell breaks loose from a twitch. One sneeze sets everything off. Its a horrible way to live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
First off, you know nothing of me or how I view the world beyond what I post here. You don’t know about the tattoos on my Great Uncle and Aunt’s arms. You may not even know the meaning of those tattoos. You don’t know where they lived from 1976 until their deaths in the late 80’s. Does not mean I understand what the people of Israel have been though, but it does mean I care about Israel.
I keep forgetting people from around the world visit here. I do have sympathy for anyone who lives in such harsh conditions. My apology for making a fast assumption. How long did they live in Isreal?
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:51 PM   #38
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction.
  • gaza was given to the palestinians, however israel cut off gaza from shipments of food, water, and electricity, that being said, attacking israel is the obvious logical progression for hamas
  • as i said before, ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE, NOT HAMAS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Isreal is tired of being bossed around, and the death toll keeps pilling up. I don't see any other course of action. They are a democracy surounded by terrorist states. Does this excuse 230+ civilian deaths? Pull some reality into the mix. How many civilians has Palestine killed over the years? They are both guilty of killing civilian; nevertheless, something had to break the cycle. One way or another this has to end. Diplomacy was not working out.
  • israel bosses others around, you seem to be confused
  • 237, versus 4781 palestinians killed by the israelis since 2000, roughly 1/4 of them were actually involved in conflict and another 1/4 were kids.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 08:57 PM   #39
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
  • gaza was given to the palestinians, however israel cut off gaza from shipments of food, water, and electricity, that being said, attacking israel is the obvious logical progression for hamas
  • as i said before, ISRAEL BROKE THE CEASEFIRE, NOT HAMAS
Who should be responsible for the Palestinians? Israel or Palastine? Why should Israel grant food, water, and electricity to a foreign nation when their own government should take up responsibility?

Last edited by Yar-El; 12-29-2008 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Israel. I keep switching the a and e.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 12-29-2008, 09:05 PM   #40
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
There's been fighting in and around Israel for the last 5000 years. Anyone who thinks either side is going to back down soon does not understand the deep-seated, utter hatred these people-groups have for each other. The world can exert all the pressure we want on Arab and Israeli groups, but until they actually want to sit down and really talk it out instead of getting ticked off about stupid things like who sits where at a table, the fighting is never going to end. Who's right? Neither side. They're killing each other. Who's wrong? Both sides. Neither will do the give-and-take required to resolve the conflict. Until one side unilaterally sets the weapons down, they're always both going to be in the wrong, I don't care who's done what to whom.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > Hot Topics > Israeli/Palestinian Conflict MEGATHREAD

Tags
no you sir are wrong

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.