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Old 01-06-2009, 05:21 PM   #81
Achilles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious View Post
That sounds like a challenge.

How about the 'fact' that burning releases the phlogiston in a substance?
This one?

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The phlogiston theory <snip>, first stated in 1667 by Johann Joachim Becher, is an obsolete scientific theory that posited the existence of, in addition to the classical four elements of the Greeks, an additional fire-like element called “phlogiston” that was contained within combustible bodies, and released during combustion. The theory was an attempt to explain oxidation processes such as combustion and the rusting of metals.
Emphasis added.

Sounds more like a hypothesis (proposed model of understanding) to me.

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Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
All of my replys focused on man created facts not being absolute.
What is a "man-created fact"? I strongly suspect that whatever your response is, it will look strikingly similar to a model and bare almost no resemblance to a fact.
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:33 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Darth InSidious View Post
How about the 'fact' that burning releases the phlogiston in a substance?
Yeah, luminiferous aether and phlogiston are two of my favorites.


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Old 01-06-2009, 05:50 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
What is a "man-created fact"? I strongly suspect that whatever your response is, it will look strikingly similar to a model...
I process information on both the left and right side of my brain; thus, you are correct in saying my answer is one of philosophy and science. It would be excessively complex; however, my resolution couldn't be tested by any current system. My answer contains literature, history, sciences, and religion.

I will stop at this point. Thanks again Achilles.
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:58 PM   #84
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Okay see you bye bye
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:15 PM   #85
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Let me pose a question to you, Achilles. Have you ever considered that, throughout this entire debate, your styles and etiquettes of debating might not be correct? That you may be wrong in how you are approaching this entire discussion, and that, as a human being, you've made a mistake, and that your reasoning, logic, and concepts of what is real, and what isn't real, could be incorrect? They could be correct, but don't they have the possibility of being incorrect? And that the labels, concepts, and absolutes your laying down might not be true, because they might not be real, and your mind is convincing you that a figment of your imagination is, in fact, real? That just because someone else confirms what you believe is real doesn't mean that it couldn't be due to a form of mass-suggestion, or something to that effect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
"That bird is black."
Are you absolutely sure that the bird exists, and is black? Are you positively sure? Can you tell me that you have never been wrong about anything, and cannot be wrong about anything, so, by logical conclusion, absolutely cannot be wrong about this?

I highly, HIGHLY doubt it. And that's what this is really about. Nobody can know absolutes, and even my saying that, my saying everything I have said in this thread, just as everything you have said in this thread, is possibly wrong. And possibly right. But we can't really know. So we speculate, and that's as much as we can do.

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Old 01-06-2009, 06:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Well Achilles. I don't know what to say. People are proving you wrong, and your creating a string of exceptions.
False.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth InSidious View Post
Please don't talk about things you clearly know nothing about. Unless you would like to regale us with your vast knowledge of the netjeru and their relationship with the netjer nefer?
Leave it to the egyptologist

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Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
This subject was spawned from my original statement. I wasn't the one who moved the goalpost. All of my replys focused on man created facts not being absolute. I mentioned that line several times; therfore, I wasn't talking about is there a absolute truth to the universe? You can check back even to the previous thread.
1. Yes, you did 'move the goalpost.'
2. Even if your replies focused on 'man created facts not being absolute' that's not the topic in the slightest. As I'm the OP here, I'd kindly ask you to keep to my original statement, or step off and create your own thread.
3. The previous thread has no bearing on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YAR, MATEYs!
I process information on both the left and right side of my brain; thus, you are correct in saying my answer is one of philosophy and science. It would be excessively complex; however, my resolution couldn't be tested by any current system. My answer contains literature, history, sciences, and religion.
What the ****?

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Old 01-06-2009, 06:54 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Let me pose a question to you, Achilles. Have you ever considered that, throughout this entire debate, your styles and etiquettes of debating might not be correct?
"Correct" compared to what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
That you may be wrong in how you are approaching this entire discussion, and that, as a human being, you've made a mistake, and that your reasoning, logic, and concepts of what is real, and what isn't real, could be incorrect?
Of course it is possible. The question is: why would I think so?

Logically inconsistent argument that eat themselves upon arrival aren't going to give me pause, let alone cause me to second guess my position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
They could be correct, but don't they have the possibility of being incorrect?
And how would we determine "correctness" vs. "incorrectness"? Via reason? And if I found my arguments to be reasonable and you failed to produce any arguments that would make me think otherwise, which of us would be closer to "correct"?

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
And that the labels, concepts, and absolutes your laying down might not be true, because they might not be real, and your mind is convincing you that a figment of your imagination is, in fact, real?
Sophism

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
That just because someone else confirms what you believe is real doesn't mean that it couldn't be due to a form of mass-suggestion, or something to that effect?
And then what? Since gravity could be my mind playing tricks on me, I might as well just walk off the side of a building? How far are you willing to take your own example. I believe Avery offered another earlier involving a plastic bag.

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Are you absolutely sure that the bird exists, and is black?
No. It's the Matrix telling me that the steak is thick and juicy. You win.

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Are you positively sure? Can you tell me that you have never been wrong about anything, and cannot be wrong about anything, so, by logical conclusion, absolutely cannot be wrong about this?
I hate answering questions with questions, but...

Have you ever confused a bird for a doorknob? Ever accidentally mistaken the color pink for the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard?

What kind of special qualification do you believe are necessary to be able to look at an organism and be able to determine it's species and color?

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
I highly, HIGHLY doubt it. And that's what this is really about. Nobody can know absolutes,
Your statement is an absolute and your are claiming to know it. *poof* your argument eats itself again. You fail. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
and even my saying that, my saying everything I have said in this thread, just as everything you have said in this thread, is possibly wrong. And possibly right.
Yes, that's very deep. I'm very impressed with how enlightened you are. Good job.

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Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
But we can't really know. So we speculate, and that's as much as we can do.
I'll be more than happy to PM you some things you can try at home to test this world-view of yours. Just let me know if you're interested.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:57 PM   #88
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It's like trying to talk to a brick wall.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:59 PM   #89
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You have no idea.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:15 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
It's like trying to talk to a brick wall.
how can you be sure the brick wall exists?



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Old 01-06-2009, 07:36 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes
It's like trying to talk to a brick wall.
I can assure you that if Achilles is wrong and knows it, he admits it. He's just very rarely wrong, and he is not wrong in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
how can you be sure the brick wall exists?

I think I just wet myself.


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Old 01-06-2009, 07:37 PM   #92
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It's not possible since you can't prove "wet" really exists. PROVE ME WRONG!
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:52 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Qliveur View Post
I can assure you that if Achilles is wrong and knows it, he admits it. He's just very rarely wrong, and he is not wrong in this case.
Sure.



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Old 01-06-2009, 08:40 PM   #94
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