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Originally Posted by Wepopu
i am assuming that the battle of Kashyyyk at the start of the game is the same as the one in the novel "Rise of Darth Vader" which in the book at the end of the battle Vader declares that he will find an apprentice to help him over throw his master and that he will rule the Empire. Also this novel states that Vader would have already killed the Emperor if he had not been injuryed at the hands of his old master. This information would lead one to believe that Vader's true intentions were to use starkiller to aid him in overthrowing his current master seeing how much he talked about this very thing in the waning pages of the book. It was the force that took Vader to Kashyyk and led him the the boy and seemly right after the battle he is talking about using a apprentice to become the emperor.
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I've never read that book, but it seems to me that choosing Kashyyyk to start off the game was not a random thing. There was a purpose to it. Thanks for sharing that.
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Originally Posted by Wepopu
What becomes increasingly confusing is that the Emperor knew about the apprentice and yet Vader did not take control when he appeared to have the chance.
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What confuses is that you're not listening to me, or at least it seems because it sounds like I'm listening to a broken record.
Whether or not the Emperor knew of Starkiller before walking in on them and Vader sticking a lightsaber through Starkiller's chest is unknown. What was
CLEAR is that Vader acted out of fear. That controlled him more than his ambition. Ask yourself this: How many times have you made a different choice in your life out of fear? You have to keep in mind that Vader made this choice to preserve his life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepopu
Also given the care that the emperor put into becoming emporer it seems a little out of character that he would allow the rebellion to be birth
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There is a lot you missed then.
1. The Emperor's intention was to stop the Rebellion before it got started to avoid a war.
2. This is not out of character for Sidious. I
STRONGLY suggest you watch
Return of the Jedi again. While doing so, listen to every bit of dialogue Sidious speaks and ask yourself why would he do that?
The thing is the Emperor likes to take chances, or so it seems. Sidious deliberately allow the Rebellion to get a hold of the secret Death Star plans that revealed the secret location of the second Death Star on the Endor Moon. The reason for that is because he wanted to draw his enemies out and bring them all together and crush them all at once.
You have to realize that finding the Rebels was useless because they hid themselves well. Didn't you ever notice that it was always an issue about finding the Rebels in the whole Original Trilogy; from Tarkin trying to pry it out of Leia leading to the destruction of Alderaan a probe droid finding a secret base on Hoth?
the problem is he needed to get them all out in the open at once to end the war once and far all. So he took a risk in order to do that while trying to be very prepared for their arrival.
It's like how he had Starkiller gather them and bring them all together and when they're together, arrest them and execute them. Notice Palpatine made it clear it was going to be a public and painful execution? He was going to make an example of them to prevent any resistance in the future. Obviously it backfired.
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Originally Posted by Wepopu
Seeing how the Emperor knew about starkiller then why did he have Vader "kill" starkiller in front of him. Why risk the perfect deal. Starkiller is the perfect sith tool. He is a dark sider who is Loyal! He would never cross his master Vader. He would do whatever it is that his master asked of him. So why then would Vader and the emperor "kill" starkiller giving him reason to turn on them, reason to bring down the Empire, reason to help those who had hunted down before?
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This is when I feel it is useless to even talk to you. I have already explained this. I'm going to copy and paste what I have said before below this and if you don't get it then you either refuse to read or you can't comprehend it. Let's just hope it's "you" refusing to read and if you're not going to, quit asking the same questions over and over again because you're becoming a broken record and this is the last time I try to explain it to you. I'm beginning to think you don't really want an explanation as you have already made up your mind it's not going to make sense and that you're really just venting and don't care about the real answers here.
Anyway, last chance. Here is your explanation to why Vader stuck a lightsaber through Starkiller's chest:
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I’m betting that even though Vader told Starkiller that he was to leave no witnesses, somehow someone witness his existence and was not discovered by Starkiller, or he would have been killed on the spot. This witness reported to the Emperor, and from there the Emperor investigated who this mystery guy was. Through his spies, he discovers that it was a secret apprentice of Vader. The Emperor saw an opportunity with this and that is he could use this boy to replace Vader.
The Emperor probably figures out that this guy is loyal to Vader just like Maul was to him. So he needed a plan create a division between them so Starkiller’s loyalty to Vader would be shaken. Could you imagine the fear that went through Vader when the Emperor confronted him about his secret apprentice and the surprise that went through Vader’s mind that the Emperor said there could be some use for him to help the Empire?
That is when having Vader injure him would do the trick. When Starkiller woke up and realized he was still alive, he was mad at Vader for what he did to him. In the meantime, the Emperor needed his enemies identified and eliminated. Though I don’t think the Emperor intended to find all of his enemies, just enough to make use out of Starkiller to help create division between him and Vader so that he would have a chance to turn him to the Emperor’s side.
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Please tell me you get it this time.
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Originally Posted by Wepopu
If Vader thought starkiller wasnt strong enough to beat the emperor it still does not make sense as to why he would not use him to take power. Even if Vader thought starkiller could not beat the emperor than why not have him fight the emporer anyway then as the emperor is battling out with starkiller Vader could stab his master in the back as he did starkiller.
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You're talking as if this is what you would do without fearing the possible consequence. Now imagine you are really Vader and you fear your master. Find someone in your life you fear greatly or did as a child and imagine a plot against this person you hated failed.
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Originally Posted by Wepopu
Even if Vader thought starkiller could not beat the emperor than why not have him fight the emporer anyway then as the emperor is battling out with starkiller Vader could stab his master in the back as he did starkiller.
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You make it sound sooooo easy. Do you really think the Emperor is going to lose track of Vader? He's going to know he betrayed him and will be aware of him. Sidious was not afraid to take on four Jedi at once. Remember he dispatched three of those Jedi pretty quickly and it started when he used fear against them. Notice the look in their eyes when he charged them in the air while spinning. Sidious created enough fear to get them to flinch, thus killing two of those masters after being caught off-guard.
People to this day didn't see the fear he created because they didn't put themselves in their position. If you had just found out that you thought someone who was ordinary was really a Sith and all of a sudden he pulls out his lightsaber and attacks you, don't you think a little fear it going to run through you because now you're going to fight for your life. Nobody fights for their life without feeling fear.
The point is Vader knew better than that and you need to give Vader credit in a way that he isn't as bone-headed as you're trying to make him out to be. Just because you sic your apprentice on him doesn't mean the Emperor is going to lose track of where you're at so he would be able to sneak a quick attack to stab him. You're taking credit away from Sidious. Sidious is much smarter than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wepopu
Vader knew that starkiller was strong and this is proven by starkiller beating the crap out of the two sith lords so why is it that vader feels that starkiller is not good enough to be an distraction.
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If Vader really knew how strong Starkiller was, he would have used him to kill Sidious. The problem was as I have already stated in this thread.
Vader obviously underestimated Starkiller's abilities. When Vader went to confront Starkiller, he said to him:
"I've trained you well, but you still have much to learn."
Do you even realize what that means? Vader is saying, you're good boy, but I'm still better. So that means Vader underestimated Starkiller's abilities. I would guarantee that Vader realizes after Starkiller's death that he knows he messed up and he messed up pretty bad.
You do realize that people do mess up because they do misjudge people or situations, right? This is what makes this story real because real choices are made and mistakes are made too. Then Vader later seeks out Luke to use him in the same way he used Starkiller and if that opportunity had happened, Vader wouldn't have made that mistake twice.
If you don't get it after this, then you're not going to. The story is brilliant and it really exposes familiar character decisions that are really made by Vader and Sidious, especially Sidious. That was so in character and this is when you know that Lucas did help co-write this story. We all knew that he did help write the story and I see the evidences where he helped them out.
I think your problem is is that it didn't go the way you wanted it to go. There's a difference between what you want and what it is going to be and you need to figure that out.
But now I see that you have a problem with everyone who sees the obvious plot holes.
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