lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Newsweek Article
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 02-09-2009, 02:36 AM   #41
Web Rider
Senior Member
 
Web Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: here
Posts: 1,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by mur'phon View Post
I would like you to take a look at what the US actually produce, it should give you a nice surprise. Also, out of curiosity, could you mention one kind of disaster that would cut you off from the rest of the world?
Not to mention a great deal of the world would be really sad over not having any more bread, or corn. Honestly, if the US was totally economically isolated, but could still operate normally within it's bounds, we'd just re-purpose a lot of the land we use for farming profitable things like wheat and corn and grow stuff we need here.

Sure, we wouldn't have our Xboxes or our fancy Japanese cars, but I'm sure we could go without buying a new car for 5 years while companies here figure out how to build within the limits of the nation.

And if the US did ever magically reconnect with the world, you think it's a super-power now? Imagine a nation as powerful as the US that didn't require a single nation outside it's borders to survive. Any large nation that can develop power and sustain itsself without outside assistance is a nation to reckon with. Which is something that would make me obscenely happy, some of our dependencies on other nations are just stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor View Post
This reference is win.

That is all.
Heh, I saw that and went "Oh snap, The Doctor will get this!" and posted it.


"So if you go to Washington, it's buildings clean and nice. Bring a pack of matches...and we'll burn the White House twice!"

"Nobody's talking about extermination. No one ever does. They just do it." - Magneto

"Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice, unless you get a good percentage of her price."
Web Rider is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2009, 09:37 AM   #42
Q
The one who knocks
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ABQ
Posts: 6,643
Current Game: Mowing down neos with my M60
LF Jester Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
Anything is possible!!
Bwahahahaha! String is the thing!



"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
Q is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2009, 04:36 PM   #43
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
*Walks into the thread and reads. Scratches head.*
I don't get Jae's joke? Can someone explain it?
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2009, 05:04 PM   #44
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
Search for posts by Windu-Chi, or if you're too lazy lets just say that he was litterally a colourfull ranter.
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2009, 05:43 PM   #45
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
You don't think people are boiling over? I keep hearing about another Revolution. I normally ignore people who say such things; however, you can't ignore the radio, tv, and internet these days. Something is boiling beneath the surface. You can feel it.
What are they boiling over about? I see no major protests like in the '60's. I see no rallies for some social cause. What, precisely, would Americans be revolting against, assuming you could get them up off their sofas and away from the latest episode of the The Simpsons?


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-09-2009, 06:00 PM   #46
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi View Post
What are they boiling over about? I see no major protests like in the '60's. I see no rallies for some social cause. What, precisely, would Americans be revolting against, assuming you could get them up off their sofas and away from the latest episode of the The Simpsons?
Completely concur, as there is no way that any revolution in America shall ever get off the ground. The sad truth is, a good deal of Americans are either too lazy or too ignorant to be politically and socially conscious. If things became more economically desperate, then perhaps there will be more and more dissent, but since there were few real revolutionary movements during the Great Depression, which was essentially rock bottom, I doubt that there will be a real amount of rebellion at the moment.

Oh, and watches The Simpsons anymore? That show got sucky several years ago.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 09:05 AM   #47
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
...and this will not get you mad?

Article - Obama says only government can save U.S. economy
Quote:
WASHINGTON, Feb 9 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Monday made a new plea for Congress to pass his economic stimulus plan, saying the federal government was "the only entity left with the resources to jolt the U.S. economy back to life."

"It is only government that can break the vicious cycle where lost jobs lead to people spending less money which leads to even more layoffs. And breaking that cycle is exactly what the plan that's moving through Congress is designed to do," Obama said in his first news conference since taking office on Jan. 20.

Obama spoke hours after the Senate cleared a procedural hurdle on the Democratic-backed stimulus package, setting up a vote on Tuesday on the $838 billion package of tax cuts and emergency government spending which was likely to pass.
Last night I was going to jump online to see if anyone commented on the statement. I'm a little surprised. Welcome to socialism!
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 09:29 AM   #48
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I don't think this is going to foment revolution, however. People are less likely to revolt against the person/entity that's giving them something.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 09:35 AM   #49
Astor
It's Thornhill!
 
Astor's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 3,632
Current Game: The Old Republic
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran Helpful! 
Why are people in the US so afraid of Socialism? A lot of things Americans take for granted is already Socialist in nature, so why does it induce people to scream 'The End is Nigh'?






Astor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 09:57 AM   #50
Pho3nix
#rekt
 
Pho3nix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,370
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
Why are people in the US so afraid of Socialism? A lot of things Americans take for granted is already Socialist in nature, so why does it induce people to scream 'The End is Nigh'?
My guess is it's a cultural thing, American 'socialism' is extremely mild so I don't get what all the fuss is about.

Pho3nix is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 10:18 AM   #51
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
Why are people in the US so afraid of Socialism? A lot of things Americans take for granted is already Socialist in nature, so why does it induce people to scream 'The End is Nigh'?
because almost no one knows what it is. someone in my english class blamed the ussr's poor economy and human rights violations on them being socialist/communist (which were the same in nearly everyone else's eyes). i almost brought up tsarist russia and modern russia and how they're just as bad as soviet russia and how i'm a socialist, but i elected to hold my tongue and stay off government watchlists and remain the quiet kid in class rather than the commie subversive.

in short, the red scare never really went away, our politicians can trump anything they don't like by saying it's socialist/communist/marxist in addition to saying terrorists are quite fond of it because no one cares if it is or not and that we almost had an essentially openly socialist president in 1945 instead of truman. **** mccarthy, **** nixon they ushered in an era of cynicism, love of ignorance, and government secrecy and generally horrible **** thanks guys.


in shorter, people believe socialism is obama doing this instead of them not being ****ed by the health insurance industry and all that jazz




"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 10:40 AM   #52
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Why would this upset me? At least Obama is intelligent enough to know that the Federal Government is the only entity that may have the ability to positively affect the economy. Although I personally have my doubts if this will work, but I guess if you have lost your job or if you are under threat of losing your job, then at least this looks like the Government is attempting to help you.

For those that do not believe that U.S. policies does not affect people beyond U.S. citizens may I suggest looking at U.S. trade agreements and U.S. treaties with other countries.
mimartin is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 11:33 AM   #53
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astor Kaine View Post
Why are people in the US so afraid of Socialism? A lot of things Americans take for granted is already Socialist in nature, so why does it induce people to scream 'The End is Nigh'?
It isn't a very new thing; socialism has been seen as taboo for over a century now. Hence why Upton Sinclair gained little popularity in the US during his time, but was more renowned in Europe. Either way, the Cold War perpetuated the ignorance, and that ignorance is returning with Obama's so-called "radical" reforms, when essentially, FDR enacted similar legislature during the Depression.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 11:41 AM   #54
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
It isn't a very new thing; socialism has been seen as taboo for over a century now. Hence why Upton Sinclair gained little popularity in the US during his time, but was more renowned in Europe. Either way, the Cold War perpetuated the ignorance, and that ignorance is returning with Obama's so-called "radical" reforms, when essentially, FDR enacted similar legislature during the Depression.
At least pre-Cold War it was taboo in government circles because robber barons used their sway to stave off progressive policies so they could build extravagant mansions and eat the poor or whatever, now it's ignorance and irrational fear.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 11:49 AM   #55
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
I'm gonna be perfectly frank here, this whole thread is a farce. There won't be a revolution, Obama's not going to do anything that horrible or destructive to our civil rights or our governmental integrity, which is what it would realistically take for a majority of citizens to rise up and overthrow the government. Our civil rights have not been challenged; in fact, it would seem like they're looking to be expanded upon, or at least brought back to normal levels after Bush's considerable constriction of them. I'm sorry, and I know people don't like pinning things to party members, and to be honest, it's not my favourite thing to do either. But this is nothing more than some conservatives having trouble accepting that they're no longer top dogs, throwing hissies and claiming Obama's going to be the end of us all.

As for socialism, I can tell you from personal experience that 9 times out of 10, when you encounter a person that is either terrified or averse to the concept of a more socialist America, they tie most of their fears or doubts to a misguided and ultimately incorrect ideology that socialism is basically the same thing as communism. This is usually due to the fact that they buy immediately into the rhetoric spewed by past officials on the matter, and never bother to do proper study on the subject. It's rooted in ignorance and alarmist slogans, most of which hold a conservative slant, and many of which have been the source for a lot of overly-emotional civilian responses to political actions, or even national disasters. 9/11 is case in point.

Obama won this election. By a landslide. The majority of American citizens wanted him as president, and thus far, he has done what many of his voters expected him to do: what he said he would do during the election. For a revolution to take place, he's gonna have to tick off a lot more people than just hard-line conservatives, who are the only ones really upset over this.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 11:53 AM   #56
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Government controlled anything is pretty much a horrible thing. I do have to agree with one thing Obama mentioned. We have to hold people accountable for the money we give them; nevertheless, I'm not sure if giving money to failing companies is being responsible. I've been watching the stock market. Its on a freefall after the Treasury spoke up about their revised plan.

Socialism is not the way to go. We should allow these companies to fall; thus, allowing us to rebuild the industrial and agricultural sector. Obama's plan will not work in the long run.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:06 PM   #57
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Government controlled anything is pretty much a horrible thing.
So you're an anarchist?
Quote:
I do have to agree with one thing Obama mentioned. We have to hold people accountable for the money we give them; nevertheless, I'm not sure if giving money to failing companies is being responsible. I've been watching the stock market. Its on a freefall after the Treasury spoke up about their revised plan.
It's been doing that forever, no need to panic
Quote:
Socialism is not the way to go.
So, I guess we should just let the megacorporation make up all of out policies, by giving workers no civil rights whatsoever, allowing employers to make their workers labor 18 hour days. Extreme capitalism allows for a free-for-all in the economy, allowing the rich to essentially control the population, with little oppostion form the government. Let's send little Johnny to the textile mills to get a penny an hour! Oh joy, isn't capitalism great!!!
Quote:
We should allow these companies to fall;
Yet if that happens, the stock market will most likely crash, triggering a global depression, meaning absolute unemployment. Sort of like what Hoover allowed.
Quote:
thus, allowing us to rebuild the industrial and agricultural sector.
Agriculture is controlled by the megacorps; there is no such thing these days as the family farmer. Honestly, I think there needs to be a government-sponsored civil engineering project, much like Boulder Dam, that will create thousands of jobs, in addition to providing utilities. For example, solar and wind farms, or highway renovations.
Quote:
Obama's plan will not work in the long run
They said the same thing about the New Deal, but that worked pretty damn well.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:11 PM   #58
mimartin
TOR ate my KotOR
 
mimartin's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,052
Current Game: TOR/FO:NV
Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Alderaan News Holopics contributor 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Government controlled anything is pretty much a horrible thing.
So you are for privatizing the military too? Guess then it would make the possibility of revolution a reality.
mimartin is online now   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:13 PM   #59
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
So you are for privatizing the military too? Guess then it would make the possibility of revolution a reality.
Some of the military is already privatized. You can blame the Republicans and Democrats for that one.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:16 PM   #60
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Some of the military is already privatized.
Which is exactly the problem. PMCs such as Blackwater have little government control and oversight, allowing for anything to happen.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:16 PM   #61
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
So, I guess we should just let the megacorporation make up all of out policies, by giving workers no civil rights whatsoever, allowing employers to make their workers labor 18 hour days. Extreme capitalism allows for a free-for-all in the economy, allowing the rich to essentially control the population, with little oppostion form the government. Let's send little Johnny to the textile mills to get a penny an hour! Oh joy, isn't capitalism great!!!
Agreed, on all accounts. Capitalism is, undoubtedly, the worst economic philosophy in the long run. Does it produce results? Yes. Are the by-products and costs of it, the corporate control, the bribery, the corruption, worth it? No.

I don't trust the government. You'd be a fool to say that you do, unconditionally. But of the two evils, between the government and the corporationism, it is very, VERY much the lesser. At least with government control, we, the people, have a direct influence in what happens. With corporations, we don't. It's all about what can be done to make more money, whatever the cost.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:20 PM   #62
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Which is exactly the problem. PMCs such as Blackwater have little government control and oversight, allowing for anything to happen.
Why are you not mad? Why will there be no revolt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Agreed, on all accounts. Capitalism is, undoubtedly, the worst economic philosophy in the long run. Does it produce results? Yes. Are the by-products and costs of it, the corporate control, the bribery, the corruption, worth it? No.
Corruption comes from both sides. Your surounded by a corrupted government. Democrats and Republicans are both extremely corrupt.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:21 PM   #63
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Corruption comes from both sides.
Corruption based on bribery comes directly from greed, which is allowed to run rampant by capitalism, as greed is the primary fuel for the economic policy. This has nothing to do with partisanism. Nice try though.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:22 PM   #64
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Corruption based on bribery comes directly from greed, which is allowed to run rampant by capitalism, as greed is the primary fuel for the economic policy.
We have a problem don't we? Capitalism and Socialism breeds corruption. What do we do about a government that is embodied in corruption?
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #65
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
We have a problem don't we? Capitalism and Socialism breeds corruption. What do we do about a government that is embodied in corruption?
... How does Socialism breed corruption?



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #66
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Government controlled anything is pretty much a horrible thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
Agreed, on all accounts. Capitalism is, undoubtedly, the worst economic philosophy in the long run. Does it produce results? Yes. Are the by-products and costs of it, the corporate control, the bribery, the corruption, worth it? No.
To respond to the both of you, governments are what the people make them or let them become, corruption, bribery, and corruption are inherent in any system that isn't effectively policed by the people. To respond more specifically to Adavardes, I feel both capitalism and socialism are detrimental in the long run depending on a country's goals, generally socialism provides a stable economy, whereas capitalism provides higher growth at the cost of risking massive losses, and ideally we should strike a balance between them.

Oh yeah, I just went Eastern on your ass.


e:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adavardes View Post
... How does Socialism breed corruption?
All forms of government are susceptible to corruption in the sense that private/individual interests can be furthered at the expense of the greater good.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:25 PM   #67
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
We have a problem don't we? Capitalism and Socialism breeds corruption. What do we do about a government that is embodied in corruption?
You sack 'em and replace 'em with someone more trustworthy. Kinda like what happened when people elected Obama.

Oh, and I thought that capitalism is the answer to all of our problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
and ideally we should strike a balance between them.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But it probably won't happen in America.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:28 PM   #68
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But it probably won't happen in America.
Don't be so negative, we already nationalized more than a few banks!



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:30 PM   #69
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
You sack 'em and replace 'em with someone more trustworthy. Kinda like what happened when people elected Obama.

Oh, and I thought that capitalism is the answer to all of our problems.
Most historical leaders are forged through experiences. George Washington wanted to retire; however, the founding fathers needed someone as a symbol. His actions of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor caused the people to thrust leadership upon him. Obama is not that man or woman.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:31 PM   #70
Adavardes
Junior Member
 
Adavardes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142 View Post
All forms of government are susceptible to corruption in the sense that private/individual interests can be furthered at the expense of the greater good.
Well, I supposed that dirty government officials would go for tax dollars and steal that way, instead of getting corporate cutbacks. Okay, so both sides can lead to corruption. I agree with you that ideally, in a perfect world, we'd have both. But I don't see that happening, so I'll go with the option that takes out the factor of corporate leeches that suck the life out of civilians and breed many social and political evils, such as conformism, wealth gaps, and overseas slave labour.

Also, Yar-El, stop repeating the same tired argument that Obama isn't experienced enough. That is SO 2008.



It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built.
Adavardes is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:32 PM   #71
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Most historical leaders are forged through experiences. George Washington wanted to retire; however, the founding fathers needed someone as a symbol. His actions of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor caused the people to thrust leadership upon him. Obama is not that man or woman.
Thanks for being off-topic, with little actual factual evidence. That's cool. Obama's just another socialist, and they can't be trusted at all.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 12:34 PM   #72
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Most historical leaders are forged through experiences. George Washington wanted to retire; however, the founding fathers needed someone as a symbol. His actions of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor caused the people to thrust leadership upon him. Obama is not that man or woman.
I most definitely agree that Obama is not that woman, however you have no way of know that he isn't that man, and in the interests of logic and fairness you should at least give him a chance to prove himself.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 01:04 PM   #73
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
Thanks for being off-topic, with little actual factual evidence. That's cool. Obama's just another socialist, and they can't be trusted at all.
Now I know you don't know your American history. How George Washington became our first president is nothing to shy from. John F. Kennedy was also a similar case. Both men had experience with war and being a leader. This does relate to the subject. Figure it out.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 01:25 PM   #74
mur'phon
Whale eating vegetarian
 
mur'phon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southier than thou
Posts: 1,537
Forum Veteran 
Advardes
Quote:
Agreed, on all accounts. Capitalism is, undoubtedly, the worst economic philosophy in the long run. Does it produce results? Yes.
Are the by-products and costs of it, the corporate control, the bribery, the corruption, worth it? No.
Look at the world, which parts of it have been doing good? Capitalism (or, the practicall examples of it anyway) is a wonderfull way of increasing the wealth of all citzens in a society. Of course, it dosen't do it fairly, so the income gap betwen rich and poor end up high. So, how is a system that creates oodles of wealth "undoubtedly the worst economic philosophy in the long run"?

Quote:
But I don't see that happening, so I'll go with the option that takes out the factor of corporate leeches that suck the life out of civilians and breed many social and political evils, such as conformism, wealth gaps, and overseas slave labour.
Lets instead enjoy having government leeches, and the evils they bring, like lack of inovation, slow growth, lower quality products etc

Yar-El
Quote:
Government controlled anything is pretty much a horrible thing. I do have to agree with one thing Obama mentioned. We have to hold people accountable for the money we give them; nevertheless, I'm not sure if giving money to failing companies is being responsible. I've been watching the stock market. Its on a freefall after the Treasury spoke up about their revised plan.
If you are talking about giving cash too carmakers and their ilk, agreed, they can fall without causing much long term damage. The financial sector on the other hand fuels the rest of the economy, and alowing big parts of it to fall would mean alowing a lot of profittable companies to fall with them.

Quote:
Socialism is not the way to go. We should allow these companies to fall; thus, allowing us to rebuild the industrial and agricultural sector.
Err, why would you want to rebuild your industry? It seems to be working alright to me, focusing on what it's best at. As for Agriculture, I hope your idea of alowing companies to fall aplies here too, because a lot will fall if you cut their subsidies, which IMO would be good in the long run.


@jmac: Tsarist Russia, yes, modern Russia, no. As much as I hate our current administration, they aren't that bad, yet
mur'phon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 01:33 PM   #75
jrrtoken
Senior Member
 
jrrtoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yar-El View Post
Now I know you don't know your American history. How George Washington became our first president is nothing to shy from. John F. Kennedy was also a similar case. Both men had experience with war and being a leader. This does relate to the subject. Figure it out.
So? Military honor or leadership is not required for a president to be considered great. Either way, this is totally irrelevant to the topic.
jrrtoken is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 02-10-2009, 01:47 PM   #76
Yar-El
Banned
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastramiX View Post
So? Military honor or leadership is not required for a president to be considered great. Either way, this is totally irrelevant to the topic.
Whow!! Slowdown there. That is not what I said. You really don't know American history. George Washington and Kennedy both had military honor and leadership. How they got it was not through elections.
Yar-El is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Kavar's Corner > Newsweek Article

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.