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Old 02-18-2009, 03:56 AM   #41
Darth Avlectus
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Originally Posted by CommanderQ View Post
This problem is not exactly unusual, it seems to be happening everywhere, as Ztalker said, it is not (sadly) entirely unseen.
True enough, my friend.

So what is being done about it? Sure stuff happens but I mean, come on, seriously. We may be animals of a sort, however we will not die if depriving ourselves of it I would think.

I would hope we'd know better in general. We are a self aware sentient species, are we not?

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There were probably a number of obvious problems with this situation.
Ya think? I'm surprised their Jerry Springer equivalent isn't all over this...

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Still, feelings like what he had are in every person, it's just a matter of controlling these feelings to the right time, 13 is undeniably too young, but not everyone has absolute power over these feelings{not sure anyone does}.
True. Not everyone has absolute power, but, we damn well have the ability *most of the time*. You have feelings just like you have thoughts--you are *not* your thoughts and feelings. One more person says that we ARE and I'll rip my hair out. You can control them.

@ general thread
This is getting ridiculous. I don't care to debate on what levels or what type of sex ed is most effective/should be enforced, but it IS needed. Especially to prevent this sort of thing. Or else we might as well just be a bunch of rats having litters of up to 24 babies in our nests.

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Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
Studies have shown that girls are developing younger and younger, with a fair correlation to the chemicals in our food. It's not surprising that there would be an effect on boys as well. I remember I could "finish" the job when I was 12.
Whoa there, son. Damn. Watch where you point that thing.
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Really, human maturation rates are excessively slow in comparason to any animal in the world. We're treating younger and younger people with more responsibilities and more pressure, and I think that's adding to their younger development.
Hm. I'm interested. So, Really? Responsibility? Could have fooled me here in the U.S.A. I mean that if our performance educationally or occupationally is declining I would think we are not responsible enough. But that may be a debate for another thread.

Normally I would not ask you to provide a source, but as this is Kavar's, errm, would you mind doing us the honor? Regarding responsibilities, especially.
Doesn't have to be perfect, but I think that this is quite relevant.
Then whatever you can find on genetically engineered/chemically/hormonally treated food as a secondary.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.


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Old 02-18-2009, 04:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
True enough, my friend.

So what is being done about it? Sure stuff happens but I mean, come on, seriously. We may be animals of a sort, however we will not die if depriving ourselves of it I would think.

Not everyone has absolute power, but, we damn well have the ability *most of the time*. You have feelings just like you have thoughts--you are *not* your thoughts and feelings. One more person says that we ARE and I'll rip my hair out. You can control them.

@ general thread
This is getting ridiculous. I don't care to debate on what levels or what type of sex ed is most effective/should be enforced, but it IS needed. Especially to prevent this sort of thing. Or else we might as well just be a bunch of rats having litters of up to 24 babies in our nests.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.
Sadly, you have just answered it yourself. 'We are not animals.' When people roll into the wrong group, they do become animals (with all the respect, just using the same words). I told you about the 9-year old Rotterdam ghetto kids who have sex in the garag boxes there. That was seriously shocking.
Someone mentioned food here. I do know alcohol can have a major effect on young people.
That we have the power to control ourselves or protect ourselves from wrong groups doesn't mean everyone (especially lower-scholed children who seek confirmation) has it.

I'll close with an example:
As some of you know I've been a studen-teacher for some time now, hopping to a new school every year. 2 years ago, I worked at a school with some (relatively) old 'last-graders' (12-13 years old). No problemo.

A year later, my buddy says he'll bring a girl over to our pub. No problemo. it was a girl from my class though. And my buddy didn't fancy her anymore after she revealed she had already slept with multiple guys and was quite the...whore at 12-13 years of age.

What went wrong there? From innocent schoolgirl (which I can confirm since I knew everything about her work-related) to what she is now?

Maybe that's why I can answer this so calmly...I've seen it before

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Old 02-21-2009, 09:04 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Sabretooth
Ztalker is right, as a professional teenager, I can attest that there are many times when you 'feel it' and the only way to cure that feeling is to 'do it', but since there is no proper companion, you're forced to play it solitaire. I'm sure that had I had a companion at that age, I could have had a lot of fun. Just saying.

/high-fives sabre of the past

//no progress yet, sabre of the past, i'm still working on it
You made me cringe and lol simultaneously :P

Teaching kids a little self control and making them understanding that there are consequences for actions would go a long way:/



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light dwindles. Then is evening
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:19 PM   #44
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:44 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Normally I would not ask you to provide a source, but as this is Kavar's, errm, would you mind doing us the honor? Regarding responsibilities, especially.
Doesn't have to be perfect, but I think that this is quite relevant.
Then whatever you can find on genetically engineered/chemically/hormonally treated food as a secondary.

It will be interesting to see what causes actually factored into this.
More responsibilities should not be confused with giving them more responsibility. One is the giving of tasks to do and complete that require a higher level of responsibility, which is the ability to complete said tasks without screwing around.

In short, it is only from my personal observations that I THINK we're giving kids more to deal with, but not imparting upon them the skills to deal with it. I THINK this is because many lax parents today attempt to prove their quality as a parent through how many "adult" tasks their child can complete. It is personal observation and nothing more.

Hormones, that's pretty easy to find.

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Some experts, such as D. Lindsey Berkson, author of Hormone Deception (Contemporary Books, 2000), worry that hormones in the food supply could be at least partly responsible for early puberty. The average age for a girl’s first period is now between 12.5 to 12.9 for white girls and around 12.2 for black girls, younger than at the turn of the century, though by how much is not known conclusively. However, at this point, a link between hormones and early puberty has not been established by researchers.
from: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/...sp?Main_ID=127

Though I will insert my agenda on equal sex rights, I think the effects of these hormones on men and boys are largely being ignored. Most articles I read talk about the effects on girls.


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Old 02-22-2009, 03:42 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ztalker View Post
That we have the power to control ourselves or protect ourselves from wrong groups doesn't mean everyone (especially lower-scholed children who seek confirmation) has it.
True enough...so it is pertinent we who can and do impart it to the young as much as possible. This is not indoctrination or dogmas, this is plain common sense if we want to see less of this happening.

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<SNIP>
What went wrong there? From innocent schoolgirl (which I can confirm since I knew everything about her work-related) to what she is now?
That may be answered in part by web rider's post below yours...which I shall quote below.

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Originally Posted by Bee Hoon View Post
You made me cringe and lol simultaneously :P
Teaching kids a little self control and making them understanding that there are consequences for actions would go a long way:/
Thank you.

--Perhaps not a laugh of joy, but of shock?

{Snip} Response to deleted post. -RH

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Originally Posted by Web Rider View Post
More responsibilities should not be confused with giving them more responsibility.
Excellent discernment.

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One is the giving of tasks to do and complete that require a higher level of responsibility, which is the ability to complete said tasks without screwing around.
Which sadly does not happen often--or it is not done in such a way as to be effective.

...Yet we wonder about things like attention deficit disorder? How dense are we?

Quote:
In short, it is only from my personal observations that I THINK we're giving kids more to deal with, but not imparting upon them the skills to deal with it. I THINK this is because many lax parents today attempt to prove their quality as a parent through how many "adult" tasks their child can complete. It is personal observation and nothing more.
No source? Bummer I was hoping for some study. This is something that really does need a good looking into IMO. However, thank you for interjecting your piece. Good clarification.

Side note: Do you believe this is also a factor in under achievement for Americans in both work and academic performances?

What do you suppose constitutes laxity in parenting? What factors play into such folly, I wonder? (Or maybe this ought to go into another thread?)

For example, there are parents who are religious and those who are not. Yet nowadays it would seem that religion is not effective at determining this laxity. Spirituality, and character development, on the other hand...I think they do. (YET) If religion does not facilitate that, then what does?

Using my own life as an example, my family is not religious; however, growing up, we did check around churches from time to time, we did do charitable things, and emphasis for morals & ethics was always on integrity, choices and consequences, and recognizing a relationship between the two in every situation.

Does it not appear in a modern society like the US, that it has so many conveniences, comforts, easy quick solutions, distractions?...Would it seem that those terms (spirituality and character development) are vague if not totally foreign altogether (character development and spirituality) in todays society?

What role does permissiveness play? Are there enough checks and balances taken into consideration by the general parenting population?

It would seem we are farthest from spirituality and character development in the US; this may just be my opinion, though. --I believe this because as more and more as time goes on, mockery and discouragement of such things has become more and more common.

Quote:
Hormones, that's pretty easy to find.


from: http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/...sp?Main_ID=127

Though I will insert my agenda on equal sex rights, I think the effects of these hormones on men and boys are largely being ignored. Most articles I read talk about the effects on girls.
Good job--thanks. Actually, for the record I agree with the whole general assertion here that the boys and men are being ignored in how things affect them. You raise a good specific point here too. We are not looking at the *whole* picture. Or at least that is my opinion.


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Last edited by RedHawke; 02-22-2009 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 09:50 AM   #47
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True enough...so it is pertinent we who can and do impart it to the young as much as possible. This is not indoctrination or dogmas, this is plain common sense if we want to see less of this happening.
Agreed. There was a recent program on the television that we watched with the class. Several experts and famous people were allowed to talk and they all said starting early out of peer pressure is not the way. The children got the message, so I'm fully supporting your view on this.

In any case, it's good to see that many people have strong arguments and views in this thread.

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Old 02-22-2009, 03:25 PM   #48
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We're straying pretty close to the edge as far as topic content goes--just a reminder to keep it PG-13. Thanks.


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Old 02-22-2009, 03:47 PM   #49
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Full Story

~snip~

Thoughts?
This. Is. So. Unbelievably. Weird. I can't find the words to describe the shock. I mean, yeah, teen pregnancies do happen, but this... this isn't a teen pregnancy, which only makes it worse. The boy was only 12 when he had intercourse with his girlfriend and now he's supposed to be a father?! This won't end well.

What amazes me are two things:
1) How and why did at least one of them, especially the girlfriend as she's supposed to be slightly more mature, not think of using a friggin' condom?!
2) Why the heck did the parents of both children allow this pregnancy? Why not abort?! (OK, it's entirely possible, if not highly probable, the children kept this pregnancy a secret from the parents until it was too late, but considering we don't know the whole story it's a legitimate question)

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Old 02-22-2009, 10:26 PM   #50
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...im-father.html



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Old 02-23-2009, 12:25 AM   #51
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This is turning into a regular Peyton Place.


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Old 02-23-2009, 02:25 AM   #52
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Wow, Alfies 13, and I was thinking more complex thoughts than him when I was 3.
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:06 AM   #53
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He's sleep-deprived caring for the baby.


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Old 02-25-2009, 12:08 PM   #54
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He's sleep-deprived caring for the baby.
He'll be needing his share of sleep as well on his age though. He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...

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Old 02-25-2009, 02:37 PM   #55
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He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...
I hope you're not trying to insinuate something about pokemon or transformers here..
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:12 PM   #56
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I can't imagine British social services not getting involved in this case with parents that young, and I would be guessing that the grandparents will be very involved in the baby's care (at least I hope for good care for the baby's sake).


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Old 02-25-2009, 04:25 PM   #57
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I hope you're not trying to insinuate something about pokemon or transformers here..
Playing with your Optimus Prime or Starscream won't feed the baby. Unless it's transformer or pokemon food. Hmmm.

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I can't imagine British social services not getting involved in this case with parents that young, and I would be guessing that the grandparents will be very involved in the baby's care (at least I hope for good care for the baby's sake).
My guess too. Maybe there will be a set date from when the kids themself can raise his child. I know that, over here, teeen mothers/fathers/couples are most of the time raised by social organisations or specially trained foster families who take the whole young family in.

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Old 02-25-2009, 04:59 PM   #58
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I wonder how long the 13 yr old will last with all the pressure.


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Old 02-25-2009, 05:13 PM   #59
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Playing with your Optimus Prime or Starscream won't feed the baby. Unless it's transformer or pokemon food. Hmmm.
Energon won't feed your baby unless it's some kind of Borg. Grilled Magikarp on the other hand, probably will do nicely.


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Old 02-25-2009, 05:16 PM   #60
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He'll be needing his share of sleep as well on his age though. He's probably dreaming about transformers or pokemon right now while his parents care for the baby...
Is that what kids like these days? I'll have to start keeping some of that stuff in my van.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:22 PM   #61
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Is that what kids like these days? I'll have to start keeping some of that stuff in my van.
Yep. Comes with being a teacher. Hype after hype after hype...it's soccer stickers and nintendo nowadays, btw.
And it won't be of use in your van. You can't smoke/drink it

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Old 02-25-2009, 07:07 PM   #62
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Whats worrying is that this kind of thing happens all the time. When i was at Secondary School one of my form members had a kid in Year 8. Just happens this one gets publicised and happens to be what can only be described as the least... visitable places in Britain.

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Old 03-27-2009, 03:29 AM   #63
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Remember Alfie....




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Old 03-27-2009, 07:28 AM   #64
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^ Good one. At least the guy admitted he's not ready/capable enough to raise a child. The thread's subject, the kid, thought he could...

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Old 04-02-2009, 04:41 PM   #65
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Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment. What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.

Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.


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Old 04-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #66
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Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment.
I can't say i'm surprised, given the initial reports of up to 8 possible candidates.

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What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.
Agreed. "Bad Parenting" doesn't even begin to cover it.

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Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.
Unfortunately it's a lesson these kids have learnt the hard way.






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Old 04-02-2009, 04:55 PM   #67
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Makes me wonder if I can find a company that still makes chastity belts when my kids hit puberty.


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Old 04-02-2009, 05:08 PM   #68
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That's pretty gross for sure, I'd blame it on the media but I don't know England's Television schedule.


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Old 04-02-2009, 05:12 PM   #69
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That's pretty gross for sure, I'd blame it on the media but I don't know England's Television schedule.
It's no worse than the television schedules in the US. And 'blaming it on TV' wouldn't work - it's ultimately the parents' fault - for firstly allowing this to happen, and secondly, not teaching their children about the risks involved.






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Old 04-02-2009, 06:14 PM   #70
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Agreed. "Bad Parenting" doesn't even begin to cover it.
Chav does.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:17 AM   #71
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Its kinda naive to think they didnt know the risks... i mean, im 17 soon and ive known all the risks with unprotected sex for a damn 6 years now. No, they knew it but just decided to ignore it. Probably cause of the girl, she seems like the average teen ho. This kinda crap happens here in finland all the time, and sex disease rates are growing at an alarming rate, and only cause drunken teenagers dont use condoms.


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Old 04-07-2009, 05:39 AM   #72
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Apparently the boy is not the father after they've done DNA testing according to a UK article I read the other day whose link I can't find at the moment. What disturbed me is that the parents said the boy could come sleep over with their daughter, and that the boy's parents apparently saw nothing wrong with this either.

Not only did the parents not have their tickets to the Clue Bus, they couldn't even find the Clue Bus station if it was staring them in the face. Hello parents, this is the Common Sense Mother Ship calling. Teenagers are horny. They're like guppies. Put two of them together and you're going to have a crapload of little guppies very quickly.
If everyone had the same amount of intelligence, this wouldn't have happened. Fact is some people are stupid. And I'm sure we'll hear a similar story like this next year.

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